Compressed air line question

[David Rose]

Due to my layout, it will be necessary to park a big noisy compressor on an enclosed porch. The porch has a sloped roof where the pipe needs to run. The length of pipe from the compressor to the shop wall is about 10' along that slope. It will slope toward the compressor at about a 10 degree angle for that distance. Every place but this starting run, I can slope the line as it should be (away from the compressor and toward drops with drains). The porch is not tall enough on the lower side to run the pipe with any downward pitch.

The plan for now is to run a short flex line to a vertical copper line which will "L" then run along the sloping roof.

My concern is for the water that may condense in that distance. I can put a drop/drain immediately past the shop inside wall, but will that be enough and is there any point in doing that at the "top" of a run? Will the turbulent water that the air is fighting in that distance cause me problems? When the compressor is not running, the water will come back to the compressor. But while running, I imagine there will be a battle between the water and the air.

I just don't see another way to do this. Btw, there will be a dessicant and toilet paper filter down the line along with some drops with drains.

David

[David Rose]

The compressor will be at the right end. The space to the left next to the wall is "not available".

43810

[Mike Cutler]

David.

You will eventually get some condensation in the line. A dessicant cartridge dryer, with a built in drain on the discharge of the compressor should minimize the problem, and allow you to blow out any moisture that accumulates.

[tod evans]

david,
why not make a couple of floor to ceiling loops in your lines with drains at the bottom before you take the air into the shop? check out the pics of my set up here;
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=32825

i think it`s smart to remove as much moisture as possible before the air enters your plumbing....02 tod

[Al Killian]

Did I read thaat you where going to use copper for airline? Copper will not hold up iunder too much pressure.You should check and see what the burst rate is for it. For the water a good air dry at the tank followed by a 6" drop will collect most of the dirt and moister. Where ever you put regulator put a second dryer this will cacth any remaining oil,moister and dirt in the line. Just make sure you empty the tank every nirght.

[Charlie Hans]

Type "L" copper pipe will work just fine for air lines and the wall thickness is such that there will be no danger of bursting. Many people are using it in their shops with success
Charlie

[Allen Bookout]

Actually I think that the upslope is good and with loops, as tod suggested, it is even better. Traps the condensation before it gets to your drops. I have at least fourty feet of upslope before I get to the first drop. I never seem to get any condensation in my water seperators at the bottom of the drops.

I know that some recommendations show downslope all of the way but there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[David Rose]

Thanks guys. That helps a lot. Especially Allen's encouragement about the rising line. I know it must really be dry down there. :D

Tod, I will add a couple of drops at the wall before going inside. That will also give me more feet to cool and condense.

The newer compressor should help too, as it is much larger and two stage. For what I'm doing now, my little old Sears unit really strains.

David

[Al Willits]

Copper will work just fine for normal use, type L or K is rated for way more pressure than your gonna be using.

My system has several drip tees and comes out of the compressor (5hp 40 gal tank) and feeds the garge with 3/4" pipe, to 4 different points in the garage, the port I used for auto/bike painting had 2 water seperators and one filter, not sure if you want to spend as much as I did on these items, but I'd say if your gonna do any painting with this system, to spend a bit extra and buy a commercial set up.

I also used a filter at the paint gun, for painting I don't believe you can be too careful. imho

I also drain my tank on a pretty regular basis...when I remember..:)


Al

[tod evans]

david, please be sure to read this before you install piping....02 tod

http://www.tptools.com/statictext/airline-piping-diagram.pdf

[Chris Padilla]

Tod,

That is very interesting but I wonder if the average hobbiest really needs all that in their air compressor system? However, as it normally goes, it really depends on what one is doing. My air compressor is used mostly for blowing sawdust all over the place and occasionally runs an impact wrench and pin nailer. I like the idea of black pipe being used as it is the cheapest stuff out there since most folks aren't able to thread their own pipe and must resort to buying pre-threaded sizes at the local h/w store.

[tod evans]

chris, i think that the average "joe" in his garage doesn`t need any type of piped in air system. a good 12-15 cfm construction compressor will run 90% of the tools any hobbiest would ever use. a moisture removal system is really a necessary evil though and the little plastic particle traps don`t cut it for either tool life or painting. an extra storage tank helps some but isn`t efficient as far as space goes. running floor to ceiling drops then a decient filter will do a lot to remove moisture for small money, use a piece of rubber line to hook into the drops then run rubber to the tools. or a fellow could go with a decient decitant(sp) drier but those start at 3 bills and go up quickly.piping the entire shop for most hobbiest isn`t necessarry though....02 tod

[Al Willits]

Deciding what your going to do with an air system dictates what kind or how elaborate a system you'll need. imho

The system Todd posted is agreed, over kill for most home wood hobby shops, on the other hand, if your painting, the removal of moisture and particles are paramount and $300 to do so may just be money well spent.

Wanna blow dust, inflate tires and run a brad nailer once in awhile?
Get a cheap $100 compressor from like Sears, it'll work fine.

Wanna spend a lot of time on a piece of furniture and want the painting to come out correct, step a lot closer to the system Todd posted.

Even a little moisture coming out of the spray gun can ruin a project or at least required hours of redo time, been there done that, it ain't worth it.

Just a thought...:)
Al

[tod evans]

well worded al ! you hit the nail on the head....02 tod

[Allen Bookout]

That is a good article that tod pointed you to. I got to thinking about my setup and remembered that I forgot to mention the risers at the drop lines. I think that helps. I was ready to post a picture of mine so I guess that I will just go ahead. Not much extra effort or cost but it could be an effective benefit.

The one thing that I did wrong was use galvanized pipe since the humididy is so high here and have since found out that black pipe is recommended. They say that in time the galvanized material will flake off of the inside of the pipe and tend to clog up your filters. I suppose that will not effect you since you are going with copper.

Here is where my drop lines start off of the main upslope pipe. I sure didn't clean up very well but it works. Will give me something to do if I get bored I guess.

[Chris Padilla]

As to painting/sprayers, I actually picked up a nice HVLP system (Apollo 1000) a year or two prior to getting my "on sale for a nice price" Sears two-stage compressor.

I attached a couple of pics of my compressor setup...quite unelaborate and I used galvanized pipe as well...and no flex line between compressor and hard line, either. :)

[Sam Shank]

I used copper for part of what I needed, but if I were going to do it again, I'd use black pipe for one reason. It's cheaper than copper is now around here.

[Allen Bookout]

Chris,

That is one unique setup. At least I have never seen anything like it.

Allen

[Chris Padilla]

Chris,

That is one unique setup. At least I have never seen anything like it.

Allen

Let's just hope the compressor doesn't need any major servicing because it was a PITA to get it up there. I've since cinched it down further (I do live in earthquake country after all) with a water heater strap around mid-belly. If that compressor falls down, I have more serious problems with the house than the compressor falling...like the second story entering the garage space!

I was also able to "expand" the drain line of the tank by adding a large brass nipple. To drain, i shut off one valve, open the other...right into the sink...very easy and clean.

[David Rose]

LOL The first thing I thought of Chris, was "what if you need to change a belt?". Ugh! That should be way down the road though... hopefully. :eek:

David


Let's just hope the compressor doesn't need any major servicing because it was a PITA to get it up there. I've since cinched it down further (I do live in earthquake country after all) with a water heater strap around mid-belly. If that compressor falls down, I have more serious problems with the house than the compressor falling...like the second story entering the garage space!

I was also able to "expand" the drain line of the tank by adding a large brass nipple. To drain, i shut off one valve, open the other...right into the sink...very easy and clean.

[David Rose]

The "TP Tools metal piping article" was one of the first that I found. It gave me ideas, but instead of risers I really need mostly bottom "U"s coming back up. My line will need to run along the ceiling. I have limited (make that low roof line) access to the attic space. TP uses both in their example. I imagine that is ideal. I hope lower drops with drains and coming back up to the discharge lines will do the same.

I am receiving air from a 7.5HP, 22cfm, 120 gallon compressor (that I don't have yet, but is promised). My highest draw will be for a blast cabinet that needs a minimum of 12cfm. I will also power a touchup gun. Both must be very oil and water free as the coating I am spraying is not supposed to "stick" after any solvent is used on the project. Compressed air is the only thing used to remove blast media. And this will be done on a fairly tight budget.

For any who might be interested, I am starting to apply a product called Gun-Kote to firearms. From instructions and talking to their primary distributor, it is really finicky stuff. This is NOT a commercial! It will be "well down the road" before I am fully setup and learn the ins and outs.

David

[Dennis Peacock]

Good thread with very good info in it. Keep it coming so I can keep learning. ;)

[Al Willits]

""""""""""""

For any who might be interested, I am starting to apply a product called Gun-Kote to firearms. From instructions and talking to their primary distributor, it is really finicky stuff. This is NOT a commercial! It will be "well down the road" before I am fully setup and learn the ins and outs.
"""""""""""'

Not from a outfit named Kal Guard is it, if so it's pretty good stuff.
Used to use their products a lot when I was building Bike motors.



Al

[David Rose]

Al, it comes from a company called KG Industries, Inc. Hmmm... I wonder if KG stands fro Kal Guard. It is a bake on finish done at 30 minutes at 300 degrees. It is proven to withstand the military demands of 700 hours of salt spray. Another test proved it effective for 7 years at 50% salt on/off! I think the maker advertises that it was developed for the US military, but you know how that goes. :D The company does offer several products so what you used might have been a different product from the same company. That is still waaay better than the powder coat finish I had done on a utility trailor.

David


""""""""""""

For any who might be interested, I am starting to apply a product called Gun-Kote to firearms. From instructions and talking to their primary distributor, it is really finicky stuff. This is NOT a commercial! It will be "well down the road" before I am fully setup and learn the ins and outs.
"""""""""""'

Not from a outfit named Kal Guard is it, if so it's pretty good stuff.
Used to use their products a lot when I was building Bike motors.



Al

[J. Scott Chambers]

Maybe I missed it, but was the reason for using copper pipe in lieu of steel?

[Jon Eckels]

I don't know about around you guys... but around here (NY) the price of copper has gone through the roof recently. I worked at a hardware store (just a few weeks ago - left recently) and watched the price of anything with copper in it jump three times. The price of a basic 1/2x10 L Copper jumped from about 20$ to 35$. 3/4" Copper is up from about 35$ to 55$ per length. All copper fittings too. I've seen the price of steel pipe go up too, but not as drastically as copper. Steel has gone up about 10% or so in the last year but copper has gone up 25% or more.

It's all due to the rising price of raw materials. Anything with copper in it has seen big price hikes. As well as Brass fittings, and Solid Brass Hardware.

I would suggest you go with steel pipe, as a matter of cost alone. But don't take my word for it. Call a plumbing supply and ask them about it too. It may not be as expensive as it is where I am, but I can guarantee you it's about 25%-40% more expensive than it was a year ago. With no end in sight.

[tod evans]

jon, my local supply house wouldn`t even quote 10ga s.o. cord on tuesday! they said the price is given when they ship?? things are getting weird.......i`ve been doing business there over 20 yrs and have never heard the like? i`d say if anybody really needs copper, wire/pipe/ copper alloys ect. they`d be wise to get now or plan on waiting 6 months to a year for things to stabilize....02 tod

[J. Scott Chambers]

jon, my local supply house wouldn`t even quote 10ga s.o. cord on tuesday! they said the price is given when they ship?? things are getting weird.......i`ve been doing business there over 20 yrs and have never heard the like? i`d say if anybody really needs copper, wire/pipe/ copper alloys ect. they`d be wise to get now or plan on waiting 6 months to a year for things to stabilize....02 tod
The quotes we get are good for a couple days, tops. Really scary when you're sitting on projects with miles of copper.

That why I asked why David was using copper. I guess copper would be easier to custom fit if a pipe threader is not available.

[David Rose]

No potential for rust, faster/easier for me to install.


Maybe I missed it, but was the reason for using copper pipe in lieu of steel?

[David Rose]

Oh, yeah. The price is higher. But I can solder much faster than thread (and I have everything to solder), no potential damage from moisture, easier drops when needed later are my main reasons for going copper.

David


I don't know about around you guys... but around here (NY) the price of copper has gone through the roof recently. I worked at a hardware store (just a few weeks ago - left recently) and watched the price of anything with copper in it jump three times. The price of a basic 1/2x10 L Copper jumped from about 20$ to 35$. 3/4" Copper is up from about 35$ to 55$ per length. All copper fittings too. I've seen the price of steel pipe go up too, but not as drastically as copper. Steel has gone up about 10% or so in the last year but copper has gone up 25% or more.

It's all due to the rising price of raw materials. Anything with copper in it has seen big price hikes. As well as Brass fittings, and Solid Brass Hardware.

I would suggest you go with steel pipe, as a matter of cost alone. But don't take my word for it. Call a plumbing supply and ask them about it too. It may not be as expensive as it is where I am, but I can guarantee you it's about 25%-40% more expensive than it was a year ago. With no end in sight.