Spend my money on a new BS [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Joe Fisher

08-01-2006, 11:51 PM

Hey gang. I've been agonizing over a new bandsaw purchase for some weeks now, and thought I'd solicit some opinions over here. Since I can't touch most of these before buying, and I'm buying my last BS, I want to do it right.

I currently have a 12" Craftsman bandsaw/sander from the 70's. It's serviceable, but a bit small for what I'm doing.

What am I doing, you ask? Glad you asked. I'm currently using it 95% of the time to cut bowl blanks for turning. The other 5% is random things, like cutting blanks for bows and making shop jigs and such.

I would like to get into resawing, furniture and jewelry box making. Veneers would be nice to do. I'd also like to mill small logs into lumber. I'm a hobbiest, and get into the shop 2-3 nights a week.

SOOooooo, I had narrowed it down to this one:

General 90-240. (http://www.general.ca/pagemach/machines/90240a.html) Good power, good size, and I can pickup at a local dealer, which I'm always a fan of. And the green would match my General lathe :D

Then my wife said, "Get whatever bandsaw you want. It doesn't matter what it costs." :eek: :eek: She hadn't even finished the sentence, and I was already off the bed making a mad dash for the MiniMax website. Doors flying open, cats rocketing across the room, chairs being knocked over...It wasn't pretty.

In that price point, I've got two choices. The MiniMax MM16 (http://www.minimax-usa.com/bandsaws/mm16.html) or the Bridgewood PBS-440 (http://www.wilkemachinery.com/default.tpl?action=full&cart=1147984073178578&id1=2&--woSECTIONSdatarq=2&--SECTIONSword=ww&--eqskudatarq=2093)

The Bridgewood appeals to me because of the deeper throat, and the fact that the distributor is fairly local to me in PA. Oh, and it's green. The MiniMax is, well, a MiniMax. The MM has more HP, but smaller wheels and is 175# lighter.

So I'd be curious to hear arguments one way or the other. Do you think the smaller saw will be enough to fit my needs, or should I splurge and buy a big boy? If I do go big, any comparison between the MM and the BW?

Thanks for any input!

-Joe

Allen Bookout

08-02-2006, 12:09 AM

Hey Joe,

You are going to get some great advise on this one. I just wanted you to know that I am glad that you started it so I can watch.

The other thing is that I am sure that just about everyone, whether they say anything or not, is wondering if your wife has a sister.

I cannot wait to see what you pick.

Allen

Dan Owen

08-02-2006, 12:36 AM

Well Joe,

You described how I use my bandsaw to a tee and I own the MM16. Without going into a filibuster, I'll just tell you you can't go wrong with the Minimax.

Paul B. Cresti

08-02-2006, 12:58 AM

Joe,
Well here is my very tainted one-sided opinion...get the MiniMax MM16.

I owned a General Planer a couple of years ago before I entered into the world of MM so I can honestly say that General (Canadian) makes some very nice equipment. The Bridgewood you are looking at is made by ACM, in Italy, and is one of their more heavier duty saws. A good saw in its own right and I am sure you would be happy with it and Wilke.

I have been very fortunate to have owned both an Agazzani B-24 and now a MM24. I can honestly say the MM saws (made by Centuaro) are the most heavily built saws of them all. A bandsaw, for heavy resawing, needs mass and rigidity. Most Italian bandsaws are quite good and you most likely would be happy with anyone of them. I add the customer service and friendship I have recieved from the guys & girls at MM to the equation. I would not hesitate to continue (and will in the future) to buy from MM.

By the way, your are not too far from me. If you ever want to take a drive down and see my MM24 your are more than welcome to.

Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan

08-02-2006, 1:16 AM

The only bandsaw I've spent a lot of time on in my Hitachi re-saw bandsaw, which does it's job VERY well, but is now what you are looking for.

I just want to point out to you that nearly all of the saws you are looking at are going to serve you well, I do not think there is a lemon in that bunch.

I've heard great things over the years about the fine folks at Wilkes who do the Bridgewood stuff.

I'd also like to point out how GREEN I am with envy, as I'm looking at a 14" saw here in Japan, and it will cost me nearly what you are looking to pay the three saws you list :(.

Good luck, keep us posted, we want to see pics of the saw landing, set up, and that first cut! :D

Cheers!

PS make something nice for your lovely wife, she deserves it! ;)

Scott Rongey

08-02-2006, 2:04 AM

Hi Joe,

Here's a couple of more thoughts on your bandsaw choices:

(1) You mentioned that you like the deeper throat capacity of the PBS-440 but you didn't mention if the difference in height was of interest (i.e. 16 in resaw for the MM16 vs. 12 in for the PBS-440). Depending on the type of work you do (e.g resawing, slicing veneer, etc.) the 4 extra inches might be more valuable that 1 or 2 inches of extra throat depth.

(2) You mention that the MM16 is 175# lighter. I don't know if this is true or whether it even matters. The reason I question it is that the link you gave just says it is greater than 500#. Maybe that means it is close to 500#, or maybe you have looked into it more and learned the actual weight. Ultimately, I don't know that it matters; although the trend is that more mass means less vibration I think it also depends on the design and I don't recall people complaining that their MM16s need more weigh because they aren't smooth enough.

(3) You would probably be happy with any of the 3 saws you mentioned, but if you think you will remain active in the hobby for a long time the price difference to upgrade to one of the big boys could be worth it. You can help justify/rationalize the higher price by putting it in context with the cost of the wood you will put through it, and even the time/aggrevation you will save by getting a saw that you can easily set for performance that you can trust. Furthermore, would a larger saw (especially larger resaw) open new opportunities that you haven't considered before because it wasn't feasible (e.g. there are some wide boards with interesting figure available that you could slice into veneers large enough for cabinet doors, book-matching into table tops, etc.).

Background/Disclaimer:
Like you I'm a hobbiest, and like Paul Cresti I'm a happy MiniMax owner. I've had a MM20 for just over 4 years now and have been very happy with it.

Good luck with whichever saw you go with.

Best Regards,
Scott

tod evans

08-02-2006, 6:09 AM

welcome to smc scott!

joe,
i`m another happy(x2) minimax bandsaw owner. something i haven`t seen mentioned yet is resale value if/when you decide you need bigger yet.....02 tod

Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan

08-02-2006, 7:28 AM

welcome to smc scott!

joe,
i`m another happy(x2) minimax bandsaw owner. something i haven`t seen mentioned yet is resale value if/when you decide you need bigger yet.....02 tod

Nice, point Tod, "Resale" value.....Yep that is a good thing to think about, no matter what you buy. :D

Cheers!

Mark Pruitt

08-02-2006, 8:19 AM

Joe, IIRC that was a MM that we were using at Bill Grumbine's place a couple weekends ago. That bandsaw was an absolute pleasure to use. I would buy one in a heartbeat, given the space to put it and the $$.
Mark

Jim Becker

08-02-2006, 8:45 AM

If the finances allow, go big/heavy like the MM16 or similar and keep the 12" saw for scrolling. There is special "show" pricing right now on the MM machine...call them soon as it will expire after the IWF show.

Brad Townsend

08-02-2006, 8:57 AM

I can't offer any advice on the bandsaw, but DON'T EVER LET GO OF YOUR WIFE!:D

Wood Legend

08-02-2006, 9:16 AM

Hey Joe, why didn't you post this question in turning? Wouldn't it be of more help to you?

Scott Henderson

08-02-2006, 9:20 AM

True that. The turners might have an entirely different perspective more relevant to BS use for their craft.

John Bailey

08-02-2006, 9:21 AM

In honor of your wife, I'd go with the Bridgewood. We're all "Green" with envy.

John

Joe Fisher

08-02-2006, 9:30 AM

Well, I thought it was more of a general power tool than a turning-specific question. I do want to get into (gasp!) more flat work, so posting here seemed to make sense :)

You guys are too funny :) Yes, I know I'm very lucky to have a wife who understands my obsessions. And she's lucky to have a husband with a keen eye for jewelry ;) I turned her a pear box and filled it with jewelry this past Christmas. That definitely softens any turning purchases!

I'm going to call about the MM today. I didn't know about show pricing. How does one find out about that, other than calling the company?

-Joe

Charlie Plesums

08-02-2006, 9:48 AM

I'm going to call about the MM today. I didn't know about show pricing. How does one find out about that, other than calling the company?

-Joe
They are nice guys... calling them will be a pleasure, not something to avoid.

BTW, I love my MM24 and my MM combo.

Joe Fisher

08-02-2006, 9:51 AM

Oh, I'm not trying to avoid calling them, I was just wondering if the special pricing was something they advertised. Had I known about it in the first place, my decision would have been a lot simpler!

-Joe

Jim Becker

08-02-2006, 9:55 AM

I'm going to call about the MM today. I didn't know about show pricing. How does one find out about that, other than calling the company?

They send out fliers a few times a year on special promotions...of course, they only go to folks who have contacted them in some way and provided the necessary information. But there are a lot of MM owners here and we tend to be a vocal bunch and mention promotions that we know of... ;)

tod evans

08-02-2006, 10:03 AM

Hey Joe, why didn't you post this question in turning? Wouldn't it be of more help to you?

i`m begining to think that maybe it`d be a good idea for somebody to review " new members" given the deleeted post by this joker and the hack a week ago...... tod

Joe Fisher

08-02-2006, 10:17 AM

i`m begining to think that maybe it`d be a good idea for somebody to review " new members" given the deleeted post by this joker and the hack a week ago...... tod
Some poor, sad folks just have nothing better to do than cause trouble in Internet forums.

They need a hobby. Like woodworking :)

Thanks to everyone else for their advice so far. I'm going to call MM now...

-Joe

Don Baer

08-02-2006, 10:17 AM

Todd,
We had the same suggestion when Wood first posted sometime back. As it turns out Wood is his first name and Lergend is his last name. He posted in the OT froum.

tod evans

08-02-2006, 10:22 AM

don, if you missed the post that got deleeted, this "person" needs to come visit me to get his attitude straightened out! i`ll bet my shop he`s not 77 years old further i`d wager eating crow that his name isn`t as portrayed. this may very well be the same joker who thought it funny to hack the site? tod

Glenn Clabo

08-02-2006, 10:26 AM

I'd say the only correct sign up information he's supplied is his Occupation:

Erik Rudd

08-02-2006, 10:47 AM

Well, I thought it was more of a general power tool than a turning-specific question. I do want to get into (gasp!) more flat work, so posting here seemed to make sense :)

-Joe

That's not the story I saw you give elsewhere....but it is a very good answer.:D

Joe Fisher

08-02-2006, 10:51 AM

That's not the story I saw you give elsewhere....but it is a very good answer.:D
That's because in my original post on WN I wasn't considering doing much flat work. I've since given it some thought, and decided if I'm going to buy a big bandsaw, I'm going to learn to use it for other things besides making bowl blanks. Hence, my post here.

I hope that explains things well enough.

-Joe

Erik Rudd

08-02-2006, 10:53 AM

Like I said...a good answer.

John Bailey

08-02-2006, 10:55 AM

Hey guys, I think we're being duped. The last thread that got contentious had an "oldster" causing trouble too. All I can say is, the "ignore" list is a handy item, and I've got a couple more names on it.

John

Erik Rudd

08-02-2006, 11:00 AM

I not sure I understand why you think my post was causing trouble. I was merely stating a fact. Folks shouldn't get "ignored" or banned over facts. And they certainly shouldn't get banned over an opinion that's presented politely....

John Bailey

08-02-2006, 11:07 AM

Erik Rudd

08-02-2006, 11:16 AM

Thanks. No worries.

Doug Shepard

08-02-2006, 11:44 AM

Despite an initial electrical switch problem (that was taken care of relatively quickly by MM ) and wishing I hadn't bought their mobility kit, I dont have any reservations about recommending the MM16. Get the Lenox Tri-Master blade for it if you're planning on resawing. That thing cuts veneers like butter and leaves a pretty smooth surface too.

Andy Hoyt

08-02-2006, 2:13 PM

There's another reason to go with the MM16.

You get to have "some fun (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26027)" like Doug did.

Joe Fisher

08-02-2006, 2:26 PM

All,

My MM16 will go on today's truck :D :D

The show special is awesome. In addition to a price break, they throw in a 3 blade package and the mobility kit. I'm getting Roy's old machine :)

Thanks again, gang.

-Joe

Joe Fisher

08-02-2006, 3:11 PM

and wishing I hadn't bought their mobility kit Would you share the reason for this, please?

-Joe

Cory Newman

08-02-2006, 3:31 PM

tod evans

08-02-2006, 3:40 PM

I'm also in the market for a new bandsaw. I am curious as to why no one mentioned the Rikon 18" as an option. I have been strongly considering that one. Granted the MM or the Laguna are probably a better saw, but I don't know if they are that much of a better saw to justify the large price difference?

cory,
i`ve never seen a "rikon" anything.....they`re another new tai/chi offering. the saw i owned before going to minimax was a 20" rockwell that i outfitted with a bigger motor and good guides.....i think most will agree that saw would be superior in performance to the "rikon"? well today i`d take a minimax 16 over the souped up rockwell and not bat an eye.
if price is the issue dissregard brands and shop price-vs-specs there are numerous importers of tai/chi equipment out there. if you don`t mind investing sweat equity there are lots of good/great older american or italian saws out there that can be had for pennies on the dollar....02 tod

Jeff Singleton

08-02-2006, 4:13 PM

I had a MM 18" for about 10 years and it was a good saw but the guides were crap, I put Carters on it. I sold that an got a 1926 Oliver 30". Cuts like new and looks it also, nothing it won't cut. Getting ready to sell that because a Oliver 217 just fell in my lap. If LOYL says buy anything then go nuts and buy a Tannewitz GH, they are only $20,000 plus or minus, at 8000 fpm there is not much you can't do with that saw. Oh, you will need a 10 ft. ceiling for it. Good luck with whatever you buy.

Jeff Singleton:)

john whittaker

08-02-2006, 4:15 PM

Cory...first, Welcome to SMC.

I don't own either a Rikon 18" or MM 16 but I have had the opportunity to use each one several times and spend some time checking them out. My experience comes from tearing down and fixing up some old iron band saws, which gives you a sense of what makes a band saw "good"

My opinion on what I saw....The Rikon is a pretty good saw for the money and its class. It is very similar to most of the other thi/chi products out there. If money was a limiting factor it would be worth considering. But every aspect of the MM seemed far better than the thi/chi's. IMHO the MM had a far superior frame, motor, wheels, bearings, table mounting, table, fence, guide system and adjustments. You asked if the higher price was worth it. Only you can answer that for you...but in my opinion the higher price is justified.

Cory Newman

08-02-2006, 4:28 PM

Thanks

Money isn't the deciding factor - I'd prefer to buy the better tool than to feel the need to upgrade at a later time. I've had my hands on a Rikon but haven't had the opportunity to play with a MM.

Mike Cutler

08-02-2006, 4:53 PM

I'm also in the market for a new bandsaw. I am curious as to why no one mentioned the Rikon 18" as an option. I have been strongly considering that one. Granted the MM or the Laguna are probably a better saw, but I don't know if they are that much of a better saw to justify the large price difference?

Cory.

I have the Rikon 18". For the $$$ it's a very nice saw. It's not an MM, Laguna, or an Aggazani though.

The difference comes down to tolerances, and repeatability. Everytime I use my saw I have to check the tracking and the guides. If I raise the guides I have to check the thrust bearing clearances. Change the table tilt, and you'll need to break out the sqaure. This isn't a big deal for me, it only takes a few minutes, but for some people it would be a major annoyance. The more expensive the machine, the better machining tolerances I would expect, especially on the upper guide bearings that are suspended on a ratcheting post.

My Rikon is only for resawing. It isn't set up to do anything else. I have a Jet 14" for the smaller stuff.

In my case, budget played a major part in the decision making process. I don't think you could go wrong buying a Mini-Max if the budget allowed. I would go bigger than the 18" though.

Of course, the wood doesn't know the country of origin of the machine that it was cut on. :eek: ;)

Cory Newman

08-02-2006, 4:59 PM

Cory.

I would go bigger than the 18" though.

Really? I've only got a 12" now and I can only think of one time when I really needed a bigger saw. Do you really find the need for the larger capacity often?

Rob Bodenschatz

08-02-2006, 5:26 PM

Okay, I'll bite. We at SMC are a family of sincere folks sharing ideas and helping with each others problems.
I seem to notice you may have a problem and find it hard to believe in your honesty.
All that aside, the photo you display in your post is a disacration of the Flag of the Untied States Of America. I find that offensive and in totally bad taste. Please take your nonsense some place where it may be appreciated, like Irac.

Richard

Agreed. I've already reported this "person" to the mods so I hope they'll be taken care of shortly.

Doug Shepard

08-02-2006, 6:16 PM

There's another reason to go with the MM16.

You get to have "some fun (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26027)" like Doug did.

I'd almost forgotten about that. I'll forever live in shame.

Would you share the reason for this, please?

-Joe

This is pretty much a Love-Em or Hate-Em thing. I suspect the folks that like them have much smoother floors that I do. On my floor the thing frankly scared me. It would lurch quite often if I hit a rough patch. With one hand on the Johnson bar there's only so much you can do to try to stabilize it while moving it. Fortunately I never had the saw tip over but it sure made me nervous. Quite a few folks (myself included) followed Bruce Page's lead from this thread
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=10507

Randy Gillard

08-02-2006, 6:48 PM

I have a MM16 and just love it. I upgraded from a 14" machine, and the difference is like night and day. You can't go wrong with a Minimax.

Joe Fisher

08-02-2006, 6:49 PM

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

I'm planning my shop layout such that I won't need to move the BS, so i'll just need the mobility kit to get it in place. I've got epoxied concrete floors, so roughness shouldn't be an isuse.

Besides, it's free! :D

I'm so excited. I can't wait for it to get here :)

-Joe

Mike Cutler

08-02-2006, 9:26 PM

Really? I've only got a 12" now and I can only think of one time when I really needed a bigger saw. Do you really find the need for the larger capacity often?

I wouldn't say "often" but I have had the need on more than a few occasions.

If I had the space, and a little more $$$. I would have gone much larger. The ceiling in my shop is only about 7' high, and the shop is 19' long, and 9' wide. Space is my single biggest problem.

Most of the stuff I do is for the house, and my wife. The last few projects have been on the large size, and have had some good curves in them. A larger table area and depth of throat would have saved me some time, and probably given me better initial results. I have also wanted to resaw boards wider than 12". not much larger, only 2-4 inches wider. Still they exceeded the capacity of the Rikon.

I have a large kitchen table project in the que, and a sideboard. It would be nice to do some wide board bookmatching on them.

This will sound a little snotty but,.... I like the appearance of single width table tops,shelves, furniture tops, etc.. and I always try to use the widest material I can find. I'm not a big fan of edge gluing a bunch of 4-6" wide material into a top. It's a personal thing though. I just don't care for the appearance. It looks like a bowling alley lane to me. (This paragraph is not meant to offend anyone, or diminish in any way, shape or form, a project they have made.)

Bandsaw's, in my opinion, are a sometimes overlooked machine. A nice well made,tuned, large bandsaw can easily become one of the most used machines in a shop. I use both of mine quite a bit. I think the cost is what throws people. I can buy two Unisaws for the price of the bandsaw I'd really like to have.

Allen Bookout

08-02-2006, 10:32 PM

Joe,

I have been watching this thread for my own information and I have to say that I really admire someone that can make up their mind that fast and place an order. Really blows my mind. I wish that I was more like that as I would probably get more done. I have been waiting about four weeks to make up my mind on a $400 benchtop mortiser which seems really silly after watching what you just did.

I am willing to bet that you are going to be even more excited when you make your first few cuts. Let us know how it goes.

Congratulations!!!

Allen

Joe Fisher

08-02-2006, 10:44 PM

Thanks, Allen ;) At that point it was really just a decision between the Bridgewood and the MM. With the show special, the MM was cheaper than the Bridgewood, and came with 3 blades and the mobility kit. Kinda made up my mind for me.

-Joe

Joe Fisher

08-02-2006, 11:06 PM

I was just browsing the manual, and came across this little tidbit:

This will give you the clearance you will need to mount the wheel bracket. The Johnson bar then gets placed under the footbrake and you are ready to roll the machine around. See Figure 5 Below, Johnson Bar Placement. Note: Always be careful where you place your Johnson.

I think someone should have proofread that one :)

-Joe

Roy Wall

08-02-2006, 11:25 PM

Joe,

Before you put the Johnson Bar (I'm being careful here.....) under the foot brake to roll it around......

Make sure to put the second Allen screw in the foot switch that's next to the lower wheel. YOu will see it when you open the lower door. It is about a 6mm bolt . MM ships the saw with only one 6mm bolt attached...to give the foot brake "slack" during shipping...

Make sure you have this little bolt...it's probably threaded in one section of the footbrake - but it needs to go thru both bars for alignment. You'll see it and know what to do.