Very Angry With Jet!

[Liem Tran]

I got ripped off by Jet! Bought a 1442vs lathe last week. I called them serveral times about a grinding sound when set at 450 rpm. They told me a bunch of non-sense then left me hanging. When I did a careful inspection I found pieces of the upper pulley. Called them one more time and told them what I found, they said that they will send someone to my house the next day to fix it. I waited 3 days, no one came, no calls. I called them again and asked them why haven't anyone showed up. They said " what do you mean, we don't offer that kinda service" Now they say I have to bring it in to a service center. Okay... so I brought it in, 3 hrs later I got a call saying that it won't be cover under warranty, I'd have to pay for it! When I asked why, I was told that it is was my fault. The repair guy thinks that I pushed the spindle lock button while the lathe was on! I told him I read the complete manual before operating it. And that I'm fully aware of what happens if I push the button while the lathe is running. He just said it'll be roughly $140 to fix it! I've purchased several of their tools, but this will be the last!

[John Lucas]

That's crazy. If it is a new purchase, it is covered by warantee. Take the whole unit in and asked for full money return.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

That sucks BIG TIME.

is there no "Lemon Law" there?

Did you pay for it with your credit card? If you did, refuse payment, call your card company and make sure Jet is NOT paid.

I'd take pics, and I'd post this one every WW turning site I could, in fact, post it here in the turners forum, not only here in the General Power Tools forum.

You might call Jet headquarters and ask to speak to a district manager etc.

That just sucks! :mad:

[Brian Gumpper]

If you didn't pay already don't. I would get in touch with their sales manager and tell him the story. Companies like JET usually provide good service and sometimes it takes a little screaming at the right person to get it done.

I just discovered my PM planer feed rate lever doesn't want to move so now it's my turn I guess.

[Robert Mickley]

The more I hear the stories of Jet service history the more I don't want Jet tools.

Seems to me all they care about is getting your money and running. Sad part is since they belong to the WHM tool group that includes powermatic and performax also.

I guess its time to boycot Jet

[tod evans]

Sad part is since they belong to the WHM tool group that includes powermatic and performax also.




fyi......the americans who started performax and sold the name to wmh are back in business making light/medium duty drum sanders under the name "supermax"....02 tod

[Jim Becker]

Umm...where is the dealer you purchased from in this picture?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

sometimes it takes a little screaming

Hmmm... That's all she wrote.

[Matt Meiser]

Umm...where is the dealer you purchased from in this picture?

Definitely, I assume this was new in which case any half way decent dealer would get it taken care of for you.

[Matt Meiser]

The more I hear the stories of Jet service history the more I don't want Jet tools.

Seems to me all they care about is getting your money and running. Sad part is since they belong to the WHM tool group that includes powermatic and performax also.

I guess its time to boycot Jet

I've usually heard that they are quite good. I've only dealt with Jet once on a part (not a warranty issue) and they had it out to me in a couple days at a reasonable price.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

If you paid with a credit card, reverse the charges, the burden of proof will then be on them. I am amazed that they won't fix it.

[Jerry Olexa]

The dealer that sold you this should step forward and help. You are within your first 30 days and entitled IMHO to a full refund. I'd make a little (lots of) noise...if that doesn't work. If you didn't cause the damage, the tool is unacceptable for use...

[Larry Crim]

Liem
A lot of people out there forget we have a better business bureau, It is very simple to go online and file a complaint, they will send it directly to the company even if they are not a member and give them a chance to make it right. I have used this several times and have gotten satisfied everytime and usually all you have to do is sit and wait for the company to call you to make justification. If they are a member they will do what ever it takes to make you happy and save thier rating. I would give it a try if you do not get any satisifacation from where you purchased it.
Larry

[Chris Barton]

First, I have had nothing but good service from my Jet and Powermatic tools and have never had any problems. Certainly the first line of recourse should be to negotiate with the seller. I am assuming that this piece of equipment was new and not refurbished or used and was sold as such. If you can't get satisfactory results from the seller then I would take my problems to:

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/

They are the owners of Jet, Powermatic... etc. good luck!

[Per Swenson]

I fowarded a link to this thread to WMH.

You never know.

Per

[John Shuk]

I've had no problem the couple of times i've called Jet. Frustrating to say the least. Hopefully your local retailer takes care of this for you. Where did you buy the lathe?

[Liem Tran]

That half decent dealer happens to be my local Rockler's. I called them before bringing it in. Spoke to the manager himself, he said just bring it in and he'll take a look at it. Well, that didn't do any good. He also thinks that I pushed the spindle lock button while the lathe is running! I lugged that heavy headstock all the way there just to hear that it's my fault! I guess you guys are right. I'll have to contact Jet's management. Well, thanks guys for all the support. If we all stick together, hopfully it'll get their attention.

[Liem Tran]

I forgot to mention, it's paid for in cash and it's a brand new machine. Not used or refurbished.

[Cecil Arnold]

Liem, I almost would bet that Jet will make it right. Call them Monday. I'm afraid I'm not too enthused about our Rockler store.

[Chris Barton]

Befor you call Jet, providing you have your receipt from the sale, I would contact the home office of Rockler. Rockler is a family owned business and not a frachise. So, they own the store you bought it from. Go to:

www.rockler.com (http://www.rockler.com)

and search for contact information and make you call Monday morning. I bet by lunch it will be resolved.

[John Lucas]

Liem,
Paying for cash should not penalize you. With a sales receipt, Rockler should take it back for full credit...and they should deal with Jet. From what I am hearing it is not a Jet problem, except that they manufactured it. Rockler is the dealer and reseller and like it or not, they have to take it back. They dont need to pay you cash back for it, but they must give you another unit or store credit. This is not a matter of Rockler being "good guys." It is a matter of legalities. I just read over their return policy and it says 90 day exchange or credit. Their stores are also under other restrictions and I dont know the detail but in that you paid cash, you should be able to get full store credit.
But time is passing. Head in there soon. I wouldnt bother with Jet. It seems not to be their problem. Take it in for full money back and let Rockler fight with Jet...and unless it is a shipping problem, it doesnt matter if you pushed the pin when running or not.

[Frank Fusco]

Don't let them rest. Make the irritation of spending their time responding to complaints exceed the cost of repair. If the dealer is in the same county as your residence, file a complaint in small claims court. File complaints with any/every comsumer protection agency you can find. Good luck. Let us know what happens. This is sure lousy PR for Jet.

Edit: I posted before learning that you bought from Rockler. Apply above to the store and as others have suggested, do let Jet know. The Rockler store is harming Jets reputation.

[Mark Rios]

Don't let them rest. Make the irritation of spending their time responding to complaints exceed the cost of repair. If the dealer is in the same county as your residence, file a complaint in small claims court. File complaints with any/every comsumer protection agency you can find. Good luck. Let us know what happens. This is sure lousy PR for Jet.


And Rockler too!

[tod evans]

i fail to read where jet/wmh tool group is even aware of this situation, untill per shot `em a note.........i feel the problem lies soley with rockler and should be rectified by them. if not sattisfied after climbing their chain of command then take the complaint to wmh along with a log of sorts of your troubles dealing with rockler.....02 tod

[Tom Jones III]

The guys at our Rockler can be nice, and they are a good place to go if you need to pick up some hinges or you need a router bit on a Sunday but if you want to buy a tool go the Cutting Edge on BW8 and 59. www.cuttingedgetools.com Steve is the owner of the store and all the employees except one are his sons. While Steve is in business to make money, he would not have let this happen. If you can get your money back from Rocklers take that cash, go to the Cutting Edge and get one from Steve even if it is a couple dollars more.

[Per Swenson]

Liem,

Ahh, what the heck, in for a penny in for a pound.

I directed Rockler towards this thread also.

And folks, if you think I have gone overboard, well, nope.

I see it like this, customer service in a service economy is

just smart business. I advocate reminding these companys

just how important their reputations are.

They have forgotten that the customer is always right.

Per

[Frank Fusco]

i fail to read where jet/wmh tool group is even aware of this situation, untill per shot `em a note.........i feel the problem lies soley with rockler and should be rectified by them. if not sattisfied after climbing their chain of command then take the complaint to wmh along with a log of sorts of your troubles dealing with rockler.....02 tod

Tod, agreed. See my edit above.

[Pete Bradley]

There is that little question of how it got broken in the first place It's not impossible but hard to imagine an obviously damaged pulley being installed at Jet. If Liem didn't bust it that suggests the machine sold as "new" was actually a refurb. It's also possible that a previous customer returned a "new" machine in its original packaging that had actually been damaged.

Judging by the schematic, this is a straightforward repair, so worst case isn't too bad.

Pete

[Frank Fusco]

Aside from the lousy service. I am concerned that it is possible to badly damage the machine so easily as described. Does this mean the famed Jet has serious design flaws?

[Frank Fusco]

The electronic age is wonderful. Instant gripe/gratification. I also forwarded the link to this thread to WMH.
Pasted below is their response:

<<<"Mr. Fusco,
Thank you for your email. I am not familiar with the Sawmill Creek website, but our Technical Service Manager does monitor a few different woodworking forums; therefore, I contacted him for a statement about Mr. Tran's post.

"Thanks for the head's up. Sawmill Creek isn't one of the forums that I keep an eye on. I regret that Mr. Tran has encountered a difficulty with his lathe; however, I do not read anything in his post that leads me to be able to attribute the failure to a manufacturing defect. Quite the contrary, two independent agencies have investigated his problem and they arrived at the same conclusion: someone engaged the spindle lock with the lathe running. I'm sorry that Mr. Tran felt that an internet forum was the appropriate place to 'air his laundry'; however, I believe his anger is misplaced. He should be angry with whoever pushed the spring-loaded spindle lock button while his lathe was running. This has caused him a lot of trouble.
Be that as it may, should Mr. Tran contact JET Technical Service, we will be happy to offer him a price discount on the necessary repair parts that he needs to return his lathe to proper operating condition.
Please feel free to forward this to Mr. Tran, if you know him."

Sincerely,


Aundrea Berkey
WMH Tool Group
Internet Customer Support
www.wmhtoolgroup.com (http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com) >>>


Not really a satisfactory response IMHO

[Mark Rios]

I think that Jet and WMH Tool just lost some old and potential new customers. Certainly me at least.


BOO HISS on WMH Tool. See if I ever buy a PM 66 or 2000.

[Tom Jones III]

Wouldn't any lathe (not just Jet) get into trouble if the spindle lock was engaged while it was running?

*If* the damage was clearly caused by pressing the spindle lock then this is really a tough one from a customer service perspective. Taking this line to its logical conclusion, I should be able to do anything at all to a product within the first 30 days and have the manufacturer fix it. If the lathe was broken when it was first turned on, then this should be a Rockler issue in that the product purchased was not delivered.

[Frankie Hunt]

I dont like the responses from Jet or Rockler concerning this.

I am extremely pleased with the service I have received from Delta over the years. I have made several woodworking purchase decisions influenced by my past experience with Delta's service. A large part of my decision to choose a Unisaw and a DJ20 last year was based upon my that past service experience. They have always gone the extra mile with me and I appreciate that.

Here is just one example:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=24337

They could have said: Sorry, that is shipping damage you will have to see your carrier. Or Sorry, you will have to return that to where you purchased it. Or, whatever..... They did not, they just fixed it, period. They gave me the option of taking it in, shipping it back, or receiving the replacement parts. I chose the replacement parts and put them on myself.

I think I will stick to non-Jet products, more specifically to Delta products. I have been looking at the small Jet OSS, but I will now cross that one off the list for sure!

I get two things from this thread: Dont buy Jet (Buy Delta) and make purchases with a Credit Card.

One might also want to examine the idea that local service is good service. Unproven local service is just that, unproven.

[Mark Rios]

Wouldn't any lathe (not just Jet) get into trouble if the spindle lock was engaged while it was running?

*If* the damage was clearly caused by pressing the spindle lock then this is really a tough one from a customer service perspective. Taking this line to its logical conclusion, I should be able to do anything at all to a product within the first 30 days and have the manufacturer fix it. If the lathe was broken when it was first turned on, then this should be a Rockler issue in that the product purchased was not delivered.



Tom, you're right. But I, like Frankie, am comcerned about the response from Jet/WMH. "Too bad, you're out of luck" doesn't seem to be a response that instills confidence in the manufacturer. While I agree that it would be hard to determine when or how the broken part got broke, we can give Liem the benefit of the doubt and assume that the lathe was broken from Rockler. He appears to know how to use one. I would have sincerely expected the WMH rep to contact their distributer, Rockler in this case, and worked something out, not just say that if Rockler checked it out then it can't be Rocklers fault. That doesn't even make sense.

I've been to the N. Cal. Rockler store twice now and have had a few opportunities to talk to that same store on the phone and to the main tech support number and I have to say that I'm really not impressed with their level of desire to give the customer an enjoyable experience.

Anyway, while in this case Jet/WMH is just the manufacturer of the tool, their apparent lack of concern that an end user (with a big audience in the form of the forums) is having trouble with a brand new machine says a lot to me and what I'm hearing isn't good. She took the time to read the thread and make a decision, how much longer would it have taken and how much BETTER free PR could she have garnered if she would have given Rockler a call and said, "What can we do?".




BTW Tom, I'm not arguing with you nor am I challenging you, just expanding in my last post. Your post made me think that I should clarify a little. Thanks.


Do IRC that someone mentioned to contact the BBB? I think its a good idea.

Go get 'em Liem.

[John Kain]

Personally, I think that letter of response is a customer service nightmare. At what point in any manufacturer's dealing should that be considered a professional response?

Like many of you, until I hear otherwise, I will have a real hard time buying JET/WMH when there are so many other, similar competitors waiting for my business.

I would assume that a business savvy 'higher-up' from JET will better respond and resolve this matter. We shall see.

In the meantime, someone tell JET/WMH it's not a good thing to annoy customers when internet forums can easily display such poor business dealings.

[Mark Rios]

Personally, I think that letter of response is a customer service nightmare. At what point in any manufacturer's dealing should that be considered a professional response?

Like many of you, until I hear otherwise, I will have a real hard time buying JET/WMH when there are so many other, similar competitors waiting for my business.

I would assume that a business savvy 'higher-up' from JET will better respond and resolve this matter. We shall see.

In the meantime, someone tell JET/WMH it's not a good thing to annoy customers when internet forums can easily display such poor business dealings.


Here, here!

[Per Swenson]

Sad,

I received the exact same letter.

I guess they don't understand that the replacement or repair cost is

peanuts compared to the cost of poor customer relations.

Per

[Frank Fusco]

Wouldn't any lathe (not just Jet) get into trouble if the spindle lock was engaged while it was running?

*If* the damage was clearly caused by pressing the spindle lock then this is really a tough one from a customer service perspective. Taking this line to its logical conclusion, I should be able to do anything at all to a product within the first 30 days and have the manufacturer fix it. If the lathe was broken when it was first turned on, then this should be a Rockler issue in that the product purchased was not delivered.


I've only used a Jet lathe once during a demo. I didn't have need to use the spindle lock. But, it seems to me that fully engaging the spring loaded button while the lathe is on would be very difficult. The thing would be spinning, like an irregular shaped hunk of wood on a lathe, you would skim the high points. To engage might require a hammer blow. Dunno. Just speculatin' .

[Don Baer]

I have never turned on this lathe so I don't know how easy it is to engage the spindle lock. I know on my Rikon it requires one to lift up the locking pin and rotate it 90 degrees something that is very hard to do by accident. I think if Liem says he didn't do it then Jet should take his word for it and take care of him. If it is that easy to engage the spindle lock on this lathe then Jet needs to look at there design. In this case it looks like Jet, Rockler are calling Liem a liar which to me it is bad PR on the case of both parties. I am becomming less and less enchanted with Rocklers service. I am taking more and more of my business to Woodcraft.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

So basically they are saying that Liem is lying, that he did damage the lathe, and then they lament the fact that he is complaining about it here. :rolleyes: Goodness!

They completely ignore the possibility that he is telling the truth, stranger things have happened in the manufacturing industry, stuff like dead mice in bottles of Coke etc.:eek:

Well Aundrea Berkey, if you really are watching this thread, you just lost a sale, I was looking hard at the Jet 14" bandsaw to compliment my large Hitachi resaw bandsaw, but now there is no way on God's green earth that I'm going to part with my hard earned money to any company associated with you guys.

I have no doubt that you are just a worker bee at the company there, but you job now is to inform higher ups that you are losing business because you choose to NOT give the benefit of the doubt to a customer of your products.

I'm amazed that you will NOT admit that there COULD be another explanation as to why this damage happened, and the only explanation you are willing to accept in that Liem broke it and has now lied to "two independent agencies" and to all of us here at SMC.

It is very sad that the state of affairs in world today is that a company that used to have a great name in the industry has now sunk so low as to accuse someone of lying, and suggest that they are doing something improper by complaining about a legitimate problem.

Shame on you.

[Don Baer]

They completely ignore the possibility that he is telling the truth, stranger things have happened in the manufacturing industry, stuff like dead mice in bottles of Coke etc.:eek:


Stu,
Years ago when I was still in College I had a job doing field service for a company that made DC variable speed controls and sold DC motors. We had a complaint from a customer that the new motor he had just bought wouldn't work. I was sent out to investigate the problem with the stipulation that if the wiring was done wrong the customer would pay otherwise the service call was on us. The motor in question was a 5 HP Baldor. After I checked the wiring at both the mtor and controller I didn't find any problems. I next removed the cover from the brush rigging and found that someone at the Baldor factory had forgotten to install any brushes. On firther inspection I also found a dead mouse. I started to chuckle and the customer who was standing near by asked what I found. I took the mouse out by the tail and told the customer, heres your problem , your mouse died. He laughed to then I told him about the brushes, called the factory and had a new motor sent out to him. The moral of the story is "hey mister manufacturer, things leak through the cracks, remember the customer is always right"

[Mark Rios]

................The moral of the story is "hey mister manufacturer, things leak through the cracks, remember the customer is always right"




Nooooo....apparently, JET/WMH is always right.

[rodney mitchell]

Wow, Aundrea's response leaves a LOT to be desired in my opinion. I think she has forgotten (or maybe never knew) that the customer is always right. If you take good care of your customers, your good name and repeat purchases will be your long term reward.

RM

[Ian Barley]

I think Liem is not being well treated here. The manufacturer is not doing himself any favours with anybody who cares about the way that they are treated by suppliers - that is to say all of us.

I also am a "manufacturer" of sorts - in a small scale way. Whenever I get a customer who has a problem I try my best to put it right. If my first offer is not acceptable (I usually start with replacement or full reund) then my question is simple "What can I do that will make this right for you". I rarely have to ask it and have never had a customer (yet) make an unreasonable demand. The reason I do this isn't because I am a nice guy. It's not because I love my customers with a passion. It is because my best referrers are people who have had what they thought would be a nightmare turn into an easy fix. And I don't want anybody ever to have justification to post this sort of story about my business. I do it because it makes me more money in the long run.

But - I don't use "the customer is always right" because sometimes he/she isn't. I use "The customer is never wrong. He may be uninformed or mistaken in his assumptions, but he is never wrong". That has worked for me from million dollar software customers to tens of dollars furniture customers.

[John Kain]

I went over my "want list" over the next year or so and it included:

JET tenoning jig
Powermatic or JET benchtop mortiser
JET 2HP dust collection
*slim chance of Powermatic 2000 TS

The first 3 I will buy in the next year.
The 2000 I was thinking about.......

Well, I guess if JET thinks it can treat customers in such manner then my purchases will change to:

Delta or Griz tenoning jig
Delta mortiser
Griz dust collection
*probable sawstop TS

So, to the JET employee reading this.......I am just one example of a potential customer. Please note the power of the internet. You can't send out emails blaming a customer without investigating. We all find out about it real quick.

Stu is right. My business is JET's to lose. Companies just DO NOT need to treat customers in this fashion.

Am I over-reacting?.........ask Liem if he thinks so............cause I'll be darned if I want to go through his experience after buying a new tool. And in this world of high competition involving power tools, I don't need much to choose another company.

[Ken Werner]

Considering that Liem's lathe costs in the neighborhood of a thousand dollars, I really feel badly for the way he's been treated by Rockler and by Jet.

Here's the email I sent to Rockler:

You folks at Rockler have a good reputation.

It is dropping rapidly at Sawmill Creek, an internationally popular woodworking forum. I urge you to review this discussion:

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=405690#poststop

and please, do the right thing for our member, Liem Tran.

I have been a long term Rockler customer, but may not purchase again from you, depending, of course, on how Mr. Tran is treated.

Ken Werner

[Mark Pruitt]

I've been keeping tabs on this thread. I truly expected to see the event unfold much differently than it has. (I expected Jet / WMH Tool Group to recognize the value of their customer and provide a replacement for the damaged part or the entire lathe, at no expense to Liem.) Someday in the not too distant future I will outgrow the lathe I now have, and guess what I WON"T be buying!!!:mad: (unless, of course, someone higher up the chain decides to reverse the decisions made by his/her subordinates, and even then I will think long and hard before buying a Jet lathe)

Liem, I hope you can ultimately connect with someone in upper administration who will deal satisfactorily with you.

Mark

[Andy Hoyt]

If I were a lawyer (god forbid) I'd take this case pro bono and use it to slam and expose the notion of "customer service".

Two "independent agencies"! My eye! A Rockler store guy and a Jet service guy! Independent and objective. Suuuuure.

My guess is that this situation has developed becuase there are too many corporate layers and dandy double knitted armani suits between Liem and the injection molded plastic boardroom table at WMH who do nothing but write memos geared toward stockholder's ROI. And none of them know anything about what they're selling other than a representation on a quarterly spreadsheet. I further guess that it won't be until next quarter when one of those suits want to know why sales dropped in the prior quarter. With luck, by then Liem will be merrily spinning on just about anything else.

Hey Tod! Your first product should be a lathe for Liem.

[Don Baer]

Hey Tod! Your first product should be a lathe for Liem.

Actually If I was thinking of making a wood working tool a lathe might be a good one to make. It's a very simple machine to design, and fairly easy to tool for...:)

[rodney mitchell]

I am new to this forum, but can already see the power it wields. Do a member dirty, the word gets around with the speed of light, and it will cost you some sales. Treat your customer right, bend over backwards for them and you will make much more money in the long run. Loyalty breeds sales again and again. Why is this so hard to understand? I love the internet.

RM

[Robert Mickley]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but neither Jet or Rockler have actually examined the lathe yet have they?

IF they haven't it would be very easy to determine if the spindle lock was engaged since it would too would be damaged. Ok reading back the repair guy "THINKS" the spindle lock was engaged while running? I'm sorry but if it had been there whould defintaly be damage. IF he couldn't see it he needs to find a new line of work since he isn't qualified to work on anything.

If Liam says he didn't do it I believe him. SO listen up WHM. I will not be buying from you ever again and there is drum sander in my near future. your not the only game in town.

I think your on the losing end this time WHM, you have all ready lost more customer in this thread than it would have cost to just fix the lathe and been done with it

On a side note, I stripped the head lock on my delta planer a while back. :rolleyes: Callled Delta to see how much since it is well out of warrenty. Guess what? shipped me the part at no charge. The girl I talked to felt it shouldn't have happend and took care of me.

That is customer service!!

[Robert Mickley]

You know what come th think of it, engaging the spindle lock shouldn't damage the pully anyway. The spindle lock should be damaged and the spindle, now it really sounds like a hokey excuse

[Frankie Hunt]

On a side note, I stripped the head lock on my delta planer a while back. :rolleyes: Callled Delta to see how much since it is well out of warrenty. Guess what? shipped me the part at no charge. The girl I talked to felt it shouldn't have happend and took care of me.
That is customer service!!
This reflects my experience with Delta too! They have always went that extra mile for me. That is also why my shop is nearly 100% Delta (I have a few used tools, all the new ones are Delta).

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I've been thinking about this all day, and I have to say that can you imagine the difference in the opinions here and the number of sales for Jet if the 4th or 5th post, if Liem had come back and said

"Jet contacted me today to say"..........

"Sorry for the trouble, please take it back and exchange it".

We would have all been praising Jet and their customer service, I would have most likely bought the Jet Bandsaw I was eyeing and things would have ended there, instead, the customer dis-service shown has resulted in another black eye for this formerly well thought of company. I used to look at Jet machines and hope to own one at some point, but no longer, and I'll have to add PM to that list as well.

The next time someone here says "I'm thinking about buying a Jet/PM machine, I will be sure to point them to this thread.

Again, I will say Shame on you Jet. :mad:

I too will send an e-mail to Rockler HQ, I used to buy a bit from Rockler, but I will not anymore, I'll buy from Woodcraft, you know the guys who donated stuff for the last bombing run :D

Cheers!

[Marion Rood]

Wow, I can't believe the response Jet and Rockler has given about this problem. I have a Nova 3000. I don't think I could press in spindle lock while it was running, and if I forget to take it off the head won't turn, but besides breaking a belt--I don't think it would break the lathe.
I won't be buying any Jet products for my shop or business until I know Jet and Rockler makes this right. I was going to go to Rockler tomorrow--I guess I'll make that a trip to Woodcraft.
I wish Liam luck in resolving this and I hope we find out what does happen.

[Dick Strauss]

I like to say "it's not how you handle your day to day business that defines your customer relationship...it's how you handle any problems or challenges along the way."

[Mark Rios]

I just posted the following in three different forums, Wood Mag, Woodnet and Fine Woodworking:


Over in Sawmill Creek there is a member that bought a brand new big 1442vs Jet lathe. It had a grinding noise. Here is his post:

"I got ripped off by Jet! Bought a 1442vs lathe last week. I called them serveral times about a grinding sound when set at 450 rpm. They told me a bunch of non-sense then left me hanging. When I did a careful inspection I found pieces of the upper pulley. Called them one more time and told them what I found, they said that they will send someone to my house the next day to fix it. I waited 3 days, no one came, no calls. I called them again and asked them why haven't anyone showed up. They said " what do you mean, we don't offer that kinda service" Now they say I have to bring it in to a service center. Okay... so I brought it in, 3 hrs later I got a call saying that it won't be cover under warranty, I'd have to pay for it! When I asked why, I was told that it is was my fault. The repair guy thinks that I pushed the spindle lock button while the lathe was on! I told him I read the complete manual before operating it. And that I'm fully aware of what happens if I push the button while the lathe is running. He just said it'll be roughly $140 to fix it! I've purchased several of their tools, but this will be the last!"

He bought it a his local Rockler store, paid cash for it. He took the whole big headstock back to Rockler and they told him that he broke it.

Another member sent Jet/WMH Tool company an email: Here is his post:

The electronic age is wonderful. Instant gripe/gratification. I also forwarded the link to this thread to WMH.
Pasted below is their response:

<<<"Mr. Fusco,
Thank you for your email. I am not familiar with the Sawmill Creek website, but our Technical Service Manager does monitor a few different woodworking forums; therefore, I contacted him for a statement about Mr. Tran's post.

"Thanks for the head's up. Sawmill Creek isn't one of the forums that I keep an eye on. I regret that Mr. Tran has encountered a difficulty with his lathe; however, I do not read anything in his post that leads me to be able to attribute the failure to a manufacturing defect. Quite the contrary, two independent agencies have investigated his problem and they arrived at the same conclusion: someone engaged the spindle lock with the lathe running. I'm sorry that Mr. Tran felt that an internet forum was the appropriate place to 'air his laundry'; however, I believe his anger is misplaced. He should be angry with whoever pushed the spring-loaded spindle lock button while his lathe was running. This has caused him a lot of trouble.
Be that as it may, should Mr. Tran contact JET Technical Service, we will be happy to offer him a price discount on the necessary repair parts that he needs to return his lathe to proper operating condition.
Please feel free to forward this to Mr. Tran, if you know him."

Sincerely,

Aundrea Berkey
WMH Tool Group
Internet Customer Support
www.wmhtoolgroup.com >>>

Not really a satisfactory response IMHO
__________________
Frank G. Fusco

Just wanted to let you folks know what kind of customer service you might be in for. You can make your own conclusions.

--------------------
Thanks, Mark



What do you say now Jet/WMH?

[Mark Rios]

I just had a thought that I related to another member in a PM;

I sincerely have to wonder just how far ahead Ms. Berkey thought when she clicked on the "send" button, replying to Frank. We KNOW she has a degree (or two) in her jobs field so I would believe that she is an intelligent person.

I am genuinely amazed at the shortsightedness of the person in that position.

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Mark, I saw that over on woodnet so I came back to see what all the fuss was about. This is simply disgusting. I've only had one experience with WMH and while it ended ok, it was painful. I won't hijack this thread with the details but suffice it to say that my opinion was already shaky on this company. This may well have put me over the edge.

[John Miliunas]

"Thanks for the head's up. Sawmill Creek isn't one of the forums that I keep an eye on. I regret that Mr. Tran has encountered a difficulty with his lathe; however, I do not read anything in his post that leads me to be able to attribute the failure to a manufacturing defect. Quite the contrary, two independent agencies have investigated his problem and they arrived at the same conclusion: someone engaged the spindle lock with the lathe running. I'm sorry that Mr. Tran felt that an internet forum was the appropriate place to 'air his laundry'; however, I believe his anger is misplaced. He should be angry with whoever pushed the spring-loaded spindle lock button while his lathe was running. This has caused him a lot of trouble.
Be that as it may, should Mr. Tran contact JET Technical Service, we will be happy to offer him a price discount on the necessary repair parts that he needs to return his lathe to proper operating condition.
Please feel free to forward this to Mr. Tran, if you know him."

Sincerely,

Aundrea Berkey
WMH Tool Group
Internet Customer Support
www.wmhtoolgroup.com (http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com) >>>

Not really a satisfactory response IMHO
__________________
Frank G. Fusco

Just wanted to let you folks know what kind of customer service you might be in for. You can make your own conclusions.

--------------------
Thanks, Mark



What do you say now Jet/WMH?

I, for one, would just love to see how a person could slap the spindle lock into a head revolving at 450rpm! :eek: :confused: Hmmmm...Let's see; My "want" list is at a shaper, horizontal belt sander and large OSS. As it happens, I can get Jet equipment at a pretty substantial savings. However, given Jet's "wonderful" customer service, it will most likely be flavors other than Jet! This is absolutely absurd, IMHO! Sheeeesh....sounds like the WMH Tool Group is bent on reducing support costs. It's working, 'cuz the less tools we buy, the less they'll have to support!!! :D :cool:

[Ken Salisbury]

For many years I have been known as a "Jet Freak". The vast majority of equipment in my shop is Jet and I have been pleased not only with the equipment, but also the customer service I have received when necessary. I would still buy Jet tomorrow based on my own experience. We possible have some communication problems here.


To: Aundrea Berkey
WMH Tool Group
Internet Customer Support

If something doesn't meet with a customer's requirements there are many alternative suppliers to choose from in most situations. Customers can vote with their feet, cars or telephones, and more importantly with their credit cards and check books.

An existing customer is likely to spend more in the long run than a new customer whose future purchasing patterns will be less predictable. It also costs less to keep existing customers than to win new ones. Put another way, repeat customers are major contributors to profit. They sometimes encourage others to purchase from your company too, so ensuring customer satisfaction pays dividends

The customer is always right

It clearly makes sense to ensure that customer satisfaction is as high as possible with the products and services that you provide, the way they are dealt with by your company, or any consideration that is important to them when deciding where to spend their money.

When assessing customer satisfaction the key issues are:

• What considerations are most important to the customer?
• How well does your company perform on each consideration?

Actionable steps to take
Add to this the power that can be harnessed from customer feedback on what steps you can take to improve customer satisfaction, and you have the opportunity to enthuse your customers so that they will tell others how good you are, while continuing to spend their own money with you.

This approach remains valid for new customers as well as existing customers. As well as keeping existing customers, identify what satisfies a new customer and they will soon become a customer of the even more profitable variety.

The best business is repeat business. The key to repeat business is customer satisfaction. A satisfied customer is generally a loyal customer and therefore will come back to you. A truly satisfied customer.

[Alan DuBoff]

Hmm...seems to be a lot of experts here on what did or did not happen.

I have a couple Jet tools and they work fine, and I have received excellent support and service from the company.

I don't know about the original poster, or what the store can or can not do, but there seems to be some type of communication problem since most all dealers would have replaced the tool for you, and if not Jet would have.

The whole issue of pushing in the lock while it's running is moot, IMO, they should make the machines so you can't do that if they will do that on the current design.

[Mark Rios]

To: Aundrea Berkey
WMH Tool Group
Internet Customer Support

If something doesn't meet with a customer's requirements there are many alternative suppliers to choose from in most situations. Customers can vote with their feet, cars or telephones, and more importantly with their credit cards and check books.

An existing customer is likely to spend more in the long run than a new customer whose future purchasing patterns will be less predictable. It also costs less to keep existing customers than to win new ones. Put another way, repeat customers are major contributors to profit. They sometimes encourage others to purchase from your company too, so ensuring customer satisfaction pays dividends

The customer is always right

It clearly makes sense to ensure that customer satisfaction is as high as possible with the products and services that you provide, the way they are dealt with by your company, or any consideration that is important to them when deciding where to spend their money.

When assessing customer satisfaction the key issues are:

• What considerations are most important to the customer?
• How well does your company perform on each consideration?

Actionable steps to take
Add to this the power that can be harnessed from customer feedback on what steps you can take to improve customer satisfaction, and you have the opportunity to enthuse your customers so that they will tell others how good you are, while continuing to spend their own money with you.

This approach remains valid for new customers as well as existing customers. As well as keeping existing customers, identify what satisfies a new customer and they will soon become a customer of the even more profitable variety.

The best business is repeat business. The key to repeat business is costomer satisfaction. A satisfied customer is generally a loyal customer and therefore will come back to you. A truly satisfied customer.



Very well said Ken. Very well done. WTG.

[Randy Denby]

This is disheartening. I've owned quite a few Jet tools in the last few years...prior to jet being bought by WHH.
I own at present, Jet 10"cab saw, drill press, 15"planer, oscilating sander. Have sold Jet 6" jointer replace by a DJ20 Delta.sold a Jet 14:bandsaw for a mimimax 16". i have been planning an uprgrade to a PM2000 cabsaw and 20" Powermatic olaner. Gonna rethink this move/ It seems WMH group has stepped in and killed Jets reputatian for excellent care after the sale. Greed willl do that.

[Ed Blough]

I have never looked in a Jet lathe but isn't the speed controled by a expanding the pulley to effectly increase or decrease it's diameter thus slowing or speeding up the output shafts RPM?

Didn't the user say he only heard the noise when he was at the slowest speed? Won't that be with the drive pulley would be at it's widest movement thus having the smallest diameter?

Could the problem be due to misadjustment that the user was able to crank the speed control too far and the pulley came into contact with the spindle lock and the user did nothing wrong?

In any case "Bottom Line Magazine mentioned that there is actually a law that is often never mentioned. That being the purchaser has the right to expect a product to function as advertised and if it doesn't it is the sellers responsibility to make sure it does. I think this law universal to all states with the only difference between states being the time the product is expected to function as advertise. In some states this time can extend up to two years. I don't know what you may have to do to have that enforced but it would be worth investigating in something that cost this much. Bottom Line Magazine suggested you contact your States Office of Consumer Affairs to get the actual reading of this law for you state. The article in the magazine mention most people are not aware of this provision but that most Better Business Bureaus are and use it to encourage retailers to take action in certain cases.
I'm no lawyer nor a comsumer affairs advocate, I had never heard of such a thing until I read it the article. It had to be in one of last two or three issues of the magazine.

[Ed Blough]

Forgot to mention I was going to do a fairly large order from Rockler and I have been thinking of buying some Jet products. I think I will put both on hold until I hear the final resolution of this problem. This is the second major complaint I have heard about Rockler while all I hear from most of the other woodworking supply stores is positives.

[Robert Mickley]

Hmm...seems to be a lot of experts here on what did or did not happen.


While I'm far from being an expert, I can tell you this. In my experiance with lathes you yould have to lean pretty darn hard on the spindle lock to get it to engage while spinning. Ever see some one jam a car in park while its rolling? I have it doesnt stop rolling right away and it makes a heck of a racket till it slows enough for the parking pawl to engage.

Second every lathe I have ever seen the spindle lock engages the shaft not the pully, while its possible that JET has it engaging the pully I doubt it does.
I would think IF and thats a big IF you where able to get it to engage the belt would break before the pully did.
For the pully to be the weak link tells me they it wasn't made very well

Just my opinion you milage may vary

[tod evans]

a little insiders perspective here......wmh group is a wholesaler, their position is that by being a wholesaler they are removed from dealing directly with the end user. this is why the young lady phrased her response to frank as she did. the "experts" she speaks of are undoubtably rockler employees although that isn`t spelled out one must infer that liem has only shown his broken lathe to the folks he bought it from?
wmh tool group to the best of my knowledge has never questioned the decisions of their distributors, if a distributor makes the call to provide warranty service for a piece of equipment 6 months out of warranty then wmh will stand by that decision. what i see here is wmh tool group relying on the dealer, in this case rockler, to do what is in the best interest of their business relationship.
nowhere in this thread has anyone come forth from rockler, the dealer who sold liem the lathe. i`ll wager all of the icecream mark rios owes that where rockler to decide they had made the wrong call and fix or replace the lathe that wmh would stand by that decision as well.....02 tod

[David Eisan]

How about some up close hi-res photos of the problem?

I sell and have repaired lots of lathes. I am curious to see what the problem looks like.

Thanks,

David, who works at a tool store...

[Nick Roper]

This really is too bad. Very poor decisions being made by Mr Tran's Rockler store and now WMH. I think a large part of the problem is the corporate concept that the "End User" is not their customer, the reseller is their customer.
I have this model of lathe and have been quite pleased with it overall, however one of the quirks of the machine I have learned to live with, is that the "Spring Loaded Spindle Lock Button" does on occasion STICK! It is just something I have to be absolutely aware of and double check before starting the machine.
What makes this situation worse is WMH's mouth piece actually having the nerve to insinuate that Mr Tran's decision to "air HIS Laundry" on an internet fourm was somehow inappropriate. I find this condesending response to be what is actually inappropriate especially considering the fact that it is forums such as this that are responsible for the vast majority of their sales and are based on the recommendations and experiences of the users of such forums.
I can't believe that WMH would have a mouth piece that would go so far as to try and defend their position by attempting to convince anyone that the store that sold it and one of their "officially approved" service centers was some sort of "Independent" third party. These folks are truly clueless if they think anyone is going to buy into that sort of nonsense.

[Brad Townsend]

The only major piece of equipment I haven't bought yet is a lathe. I don't know what I'll be buying, but I guess I know one I WON'T be buying.:D

[Tom Jones III]

While I am not impressed with the response from WMH, I would suggest that this thread is progressing too fast given the limited information we have.

* Liem bought the lathe last week. Did it work for a while and then develop the problem later or did it never run correctly? If it never ran correctly then he should return it to Rockler. No need for Jet or WMH to get involved.

* Liem said "I called them serveral times" who is them? Did he call Rockler, Jet or WMH?

* Who does the repair guy work for? Does the repair guy know that this is a new lathe, not one that has been running for a long time?

While we should hold people and businesses accountable, we should be extra wary about trial by internet. We have been judge and jury and already held sentencing but we have not heard from the primary witneses from the defense (Rockler and Jet) we have only heard from a holding company 3 times removed from the end user. I may be mistaken, but contacting WMH is almost as silly as contacting the factory shift manager and expecting a good response.

[CPeter James]

It is interesting how different companies respond to this type of problem. A company that paints their tools green and white came out with a new 8" jointer earlier this year. There was a problem with the motor mount and it was brought up on this board. The president of the company jumped into the discussion ( as he has on other occasions) and changes were made to the machine. The fact that some one is listening makes a big difference. I have tools of many colors, but no green yet, however, they would definitely be one of my first choices in the future because of the high praise given their customer service.

On another note, I have a 3 1/2 year old notebook computer that had a problem and was still under extended warranty. It was shipped to Calif. three times and they did not get it corrected. When I went into the local store, the manager got right on the phone and made a contact further up the chain and within minutes, they said they would REPLACE it, much to my pleasant surprise. Within 24 hours they called with my options, a new computer similar to my old one or a very large sum of money. I took the money, added some a little of my own and upgraded - at the same store. Would I continue to deal with them? Based on my experiences, YES!!

CPeter

[Frank Fusco]

In the 1970s, I owned a Sears Roebuck franchise store. Early on, Sears had a hard and fast "customer satisfaction" rule. That meant that I frequently took returns of items that had obviously been abused by the customer. But, in my town, Sears was the place to go for many items. I sold record numbers of riding mowers, sewing machines, appliances and, literally set records for amount of childrens clothing we sold. Then, at one point, Sears changed it's policy and I had to restrict accepting returns on many items. From the first incidence, it was obvious that customer confidence in purchasing from Sears went into the toilet. Sales plummeted. I got out. Today, Sears is almost a non-entity, owned by bankrupt K-Mart. My rule is: the customer may not always be right, but he is ALWAYS the customer. Treat him right and he will come back.

[Bill Kay]

Hi, Some years ago I purchased a Jet Mini with bed extension from Woodcrafters. I took the bed extension back because of machining problems regarding fit and finish. After setting up the lathe I had difficulty locking the tool rest or the tail stock when it was located over the bed extension. Jet suggested that I talk to woodcrafters. Woodcrafters suggestted that i talk top Jet. Finally contacted a Jet rep at the local Woodcrafters and he suggested that I use some tape on the bottom of the rails so that the tail stock would lock down. By this time the lathe was out of warranty. They strung me along for a year and then told me there was nothing they could do. Here are three photos. You decide. I'll never buy a Jet tool again. Regards,

[Bill Kay]

Here is a photo of the difference in machining of the rails

[Bill Kay]

Sorry ... The photos don't seem to be attaching. Not sure of the problem

[Scott Ekman]

Liem,

I am the VP of Marketing at Rockler. I was just made aware of the difficult experience you are having with your new JET lathe. I'm very sorry for the way you have been treated. Rockler has a 90-day unconditional guarantee on all our products. If you are not fully satisfied with any of your purchases, you can bring it in for a full refund or exchange.

I just got off the phone with our Houston store and they will be happy to exchange the lathe for you. They don’t currently have another one in stock, but will certainly order one if you stop in.

Should you have any further issues, please let me know.

Scott Ekman
VP of Marketing
Rockler Woodworking and Hardware
www.rockler.com

[Ken Salisbury]

I thought I would take an approach with Jet that may result in some type of resolution. I sent the following information to Jet Marketing:



I am the moderator of Sawmill Creek Woodworking Forums ( http://sawmillcreek.org (http://sawmillcreek.org) ) which has over 8,500 active members. There is a thread on the forum which someone from Jet marketing should review since Jet is getting a bad rap.

The thread originated on 7/29/06 and in just 2 days there have been 3,548 views and 73 responses most of which are negative towards Jet and Rockler.

Here is the URL of the thread:
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40322 (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=40322)

I suggest you give this your attention and determine if Jet or Rockler should take some action. I hate to see Jet get a bad rap since I am also a hobby woodworker with over 55 years experience and am know as a Jet Freak" across the internet woodworking community. My shop is primarily Jet equipment and I have always recommended Jet to my fellow woodworkers.

Please take the time to look into this issue.



I intend to send a similiar message to Rockler

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Liem,

I am the VP of Marketing at Rockler. I was just made aware of the difficult experience you are having with your new JET lathe. I'm very sorry for the way you have been treated. Rockler has a 90-day unconditional guarantee on all our products. If you are not fully satisfied with any of your purchases, you can bring it in for a full refund or exchange.

I just got off the phone with our Houston store and they will be happy to exchange the lathe for you. They don’t currently have another one in stock, but will certainly order one if you stop in.

Should you have any further issues, please let me know.

Scott Ekman
VP of Marketing
Rockler Woodworking and Hardware
www.rockler.com

Kudos Scott! :)

[tod evans]

Liem,

I am the VP of Marketing at Rockler. I was just made aware of the difficult experience you are having with your new JET lathe. I'm very sorry for the way you have been treated. Rockler has a 90-day unconditional guarantee on all our products. If you are not fully satisfied with any of your purchases, you can bring it in for a full refund or exchange.

I just got off the phone with our Houston store and they will be happy to exchange the lathe for you. They don’t currently have another one in stock, but will certainly order one if you stop in.

Should you have any further issues, please let me know.

Scott Ekman
VP of Marketing
Rockler Woodworking and Hardware
www.rockler.com (http://www.rockler.com)


thanks, scott!

[Bart Leetch]

Here is the reply I received from Jet this morning in return to the E-mail I sent including mailing this thread directly so that they had to read it.

Mr. Leetch,
Thank you for your email.
I believe I have another option for Mr. Tran; however, I have no way for anyone to contact him. If you can make contact with him, please have him email me his daytime telephone number.

Thank you again,

Sincerely,



Aundrea Berkey
WMH Tool Group
Internet Customer Support
www.wmhtoolgroup.com

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Here is the reply I received from Jet this morning in return to the E-mail I sent including mailing this thread directly so that they had to read it.

Mr. Leetch,
Thank you for your email.
I believe I have another option for Mr. Tran; however, I have no way for anyone to contact him. If you can make contact with him, please have him email me his daytime telephone number.

Thank you again,

Sincerely,



Aundrea Berkey
WMH Tool Group
Internet Customer Support
www.wmhtoolgroup.com (http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com)
Maybe we should keep her in the dark to see what "option" she comes up with. It certainly can't be better than Mr. Ekman's resolution.

Mr. Ekman, thanks for coming to the rescue here. I've had nothing but good experiences with your company and I didn't really want to add you to my black list.

[rodney mitchell]

Why didn't Rockler do the right thing in the first place?? The manager of the Rockler store who refused to take care of the problem should be sent to a mandatory remedial "how to take care of your customers" class.
RM

[Ken Salisbury]

Liem,

I am the VP of Marketing at Rockler. I was just made aware of the difficult experience you are having with your new JET lathe. I'm very sorry for the way you have been treated. Rockler has a 90-day unconditional guarantee on all our products. If you are not fully satisfied with any of your purchases, you can bring it in for a full refund or exchange.

I just got off the phone with our Houston store and they will be happy to exchange the lathe for you. They don’t currently have another one in stock, but will certainly order one if you stop in.

Should you have any further issues, please let me know.

Scott Ekman
VP of Marketing
Rockler Woodworking and Hardware
www.rockler.com (http://www.rockler.com)

Thanks Scott. I talked with a nice lady (Bambi Vetsch) at Rockler Marketing and sent her the information via e-mail. Her immediate answer via e-mail was to call you specifically. I knew you guys would come through.


http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/misc/moderator.gif

[Ken Salisbury]

Why didn't Rockler do the right thing in the first place?? The manager of the Rockler store who refused to take care of the problem should be sent to a mandatory remedial "how to take care of your customers" class.
RM

I am sure that has already happended. The problem is resolved so lets let it go.



http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/misc/moderator.gif

[Per Swenson]

Faith restored....... in Rockler.

Well done Mr. Ekman.

Per

[Ted Shrader]

Liem et al -

Glad to see this has been resolved. When the right people find out about a problem, it is most always resolved in a satisfactory manner.

The questions remains, why did it take all "this" to do the right thing? Some remedial training is in order on several levels that I am sure will be taken care of also.

Mr. Scott Ekman - Thanks for your post here at the Creek discussing the solution. It is nice to know that the companies can hear he "little guy" when he speaks up.

Regards,
Ted

[Mike Goetzke]

Great to hear you know have an option for the lathe.

(This has been very helpful. Now I know who to contact when my local Rockler gives me problems - like recently when the mgr. put red dots on many items but didn't mark them down between 25-50% like he should have.)

[Brad Schmid]

Well done Scott. I frequent the same Rockler store as Liem, and the way this situation was progressing, regardless of fault, I was honestly considering never returning again as my options here in the Houston area are quite broad. However, seeing that you have expressed concern for customer satisfaction and have taken action in that regard with the local franchise, I find it reassuring that all is not lost. I intend now to remain a Rockler customer. I do believe WMH customer service has declined dramatically in the last 2-3 yrs though, it's a sad situation from what it was in the years prior. Thank you for getting Liem's situation resolved.

[Mark Rios]

Way to go Mr. Scott Ekman!!!!!

That's what we're talking about. WELL DONE AND WAY TO GO!!!!!


Way to stick up for your customers.

[John Bailey]

Thanks Scott!!

John

[Chuck Wintle]

Sometimes it helps taking the complaint right to the top! :D

[Scott Ekman]

I just spoke with the director of sales at WMH. He immediately offered to send a new JET lathe to our store ASAP so we could offer Liem an exchange. He said he would look into the customer service issues that were brought up and apologized for the poor experience the customer had trying to get his Lathe issue resolved.
Overall, Rockler has had a very positive experience selling JET tools (as well as Powermatic and Performax), and will continue to stand behind and support these quality brands. This customer service issue was not typical of how they have dealt with us and our stores in the past, and I suspect they'll make sure they address these issues better in the future.

Thanks to those on the forums that made us aware of this issue.

Scott Ekman

[Peter Gavin]

I am going to go out on a limb here and mention some problems I have with this thread. Based upon a 'new woodworker's' (Liem's description of himself) 'rant' with 20 total posts on Sawmill Creek we have spent 5 days bashing an otherwise respected distributor and manufacturer for a total of 5 days until someone decided that it was better to just make the problem go away rather than deal with the actual facts of the situation. Furthermore, I have noticed that the original 'victim' (my word) hasn't even bothered to chime in since 7/27. The whole fuss was continued by what seemed to me a form of mob mentality where threats and abuse were heaped upon possibly innocent businesses without the facts to back it up. Admittedly, it sounds like Rockler dropped the ball in the first instance by claiming the faults were Liem's without supporting evidence to back it up. How do we know, however, that the lathe hadn't been set up as a demo at the original Rockler and was working fine when it was delivered to Liem? Did we ask what quality control procedures were instituted before sending the machine to Liem's? How do we know that it wasn't delivered and set up by a technician who fully tested the machine before he was paid cash by Liem? Is it really beyond the realm of possibility that a 'new woodworker' could make a mistake on a brand new machine that he was unfamiliar with how to operate? All I know is that Liem misunderstood Rockler saying they would send someone out to look at it (has anyone ever had a representative from Rockler come to their house to service a machine?) and couldn't understand the explanation ('gave me a bunch of nonsense') when they tried to explain it over the phone. Then he was shocked when they told him it would cost $140 to fix and goes on a tirade on this forum.

I guess that is my biggest problem with this thread. Liem hears what he doesn't want to hear and goes 'public' with it. What about trying to go through regular channels? Did he contact Jet? No. He said we were right that he should contact Jet. But why should he bother when he's got a bunch of surrogates (who really don't know what happened). Instead we can bully the manufaturer by threats of a boycott, bad publicity etc into doing what we want him to do. Several people have commented that when Grizzly's owner see's a problem expressed on this forum the owner will personally look into it and IF IT IS A GRIZZLY PROBLEM will deal with it quickly and efficiently. The motor mount shiping problems is an excellent example. Do you really think Shiraz would continue this excellent service if every time someone had a gripe about a Grizzly product Saw Mill Creek, as seemingly a united opposition, jumped all over him and cast aspersions on his business ethics, quality control and intelligence? If we appreciate manufacturer (or distributor) input, and enjoy helping them serve us better, into the forum we are going to have to give them room for making decision that may not favor the customer.

I'm sorry if you disagree with what I am saying, but it seems that what I value most about this forum is being lost..... the willingness to exchange ideas, techniques and random thought in a pleasant, non confrontational manner. From another thread I have gathered that it is now permissible to discuss murdering people in various ways. Now it is permissible to gang up and bully companies who may or may not have a legitimate problem with the solution we demand without knowing all the facts. Sorry, but I think something is being lost here.

Peter

[John Kain]

I just spoke with the director of sales at WMH. He immediately offered to send a new JET lathe to our store ASAP so we could offer Liem an exchange. He said he would look into the customer service issues that were brought up and apologized for the poor experience the customer had trying to get his Lathe issue resolved.
Overall, Rockler has had a very positive experience selling JET tools (as well as Powermatic and Performax), and will continue to stand behind and support these quality brands. This customer service issue was not typical of how they have dealt with us and our stores in the past, and I suspect they'll make sure they address these issues better in the future.

Thanks to those on the forums that made us aware of this issue.

Scott Ekman

Fantastic Scott!

This is the type of customer service that will keep me in the market for JET tools and Rockler products for many years to come.

Thank you!

[Alan DuBoff]

I'm sorry if you disagree with what I am saying, but it seems that what I value most about this forum is being lost..... the willingness to exchange ideas, techniques and random thought in a pleasant, non confrontational manner. From another thread I have gathered that it is now permissible to discuss murdering people in various ways. Now it is permissible to gang up and bully companies who may or may not have a legitimate problem with the solution we demand without knowing all the facts. Sorry, but I think something is being lost here.I completely agree with you. As I pointed out in my only other post to this thread, there was a lot of experts that knew everything about this situation, and could voice what "they would do" or how "they would have resolved it better".

Amazing how so many are experts without seeing the machine, or really knowing what was said between the original poster and Rockler and/or Jet. Liem wasn't real clear on that, yet all the experts jumped in to voice their opinion (and the term internet mob is a good one, the SMC folks had Rockler and Jet ready for a lynching).

I share your sorrow Peter, but maybe out of all of this some folks will think a bit more before judging a company or person as they have done in this thread.

[Lars Thomas]

Peter, I absolutely agree with you. As a group, we were real quick to jump all over Jet and Rockler - especially with cross-posting on other forums. In the future, we would be better served (and respected), if we weren't so quick to write off the entire company. This is especially true for a company that has been so good to us in the past. It wasn't that long ago when Rockler hosted many Turn-a-thons for the Freedom Pen initiative. Remember?

In my opinion, this whole issue shouldn't have even been posted untilthe issue was escalated at both Rockler and Jet and still remained unresolved. Only then would it be appropriate (in my mind) to rant about a product/company. Lars

[tod evans]

peter,
your points are on target and i agree with your whole post regarding the lathe issue.

as far as "murdering" the hacker......i started the idea of vengance against the individual and never once expressed a desire to commit murder! as it sits i would still be happy to teach the person a lesson in proper behavior, especially when their negitive behavior affects as many nice folks as i have met here.....02 tod

[Peter Gavin]

tod-

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. I am just an old hippy who woke up one morning with a wife and kid and mortgage and a corporate 8-5 sentence who sometimes wonders what it all means. Sawmill Creek seemed like a place where simple decency still reigned (and I am sure it still does) but sometime I look around and see local spikes in violent crime and then look at the national and international scene and see people more and more willing to turn to violence (or the threat of violence) to get whatever they want and I wish I could kick it all over. Today is Jerry Garcia's birthday and I really miss him.
Peter

[Liem Tran]

First off, let me say thank you all very,very much for the advices concerns and all that you guys did. I'm sorry if there were questions that I didn't answer. There was so many I didn't know where to start. As I remember, someone asked for a picture of the damages to be posted, I don't have pictures because the headstock is still in the service center.
It looks like things are wraping up to a happy ending so I don't want to re-hash the case. But I will keep you guys up to date on what'll happen.


When I started this thread,I didn't mean to give Jet or Rockler's a bad rap.
I just wanted some opinion on what I should do. Now I ended up having the whole problem solved. (I hope)
Sorry Rockler's didn't mean to cause any problems,
and THANK YOU MR. EKMAN!
As for Jet, I'm still mad at you!


THANKS SMC, YOU GUYS ARE GREAT!

[tod evans]

peter, from one ol` hippie to another........peace

[Chuck Wintle]

I am going to go out on a limb here and mention some problems I have with this thread. Based upon a 'new woodworker's' (Liem's description of himself) 'rant' with 20 total posts on Sawmill Creek we have spent 5 days bashing an otherwise respected distributor and manufacturer for a total of 5 days until someone decided that it was better to just make the problem go away rather than deal with the actual facts of the situation. Furthermore, I have noticed that the original 'victim' (my word) hasn't even bothered to chime in since 7/27. The whole fuss was continued by what seemed to me a form of mob mentality where threats and abuse were heaped upon possibly innocent businesses without the facts to back it up. Admittedly, it sounds like Rockler dropped the ball in the first instance by claiming the faults were Liem's without supporting evidence to back it up. How do we know, however, that the lathe hadn't been set up as a demo at the original Rockler and was working fine when it was delivered to Liem? Did we ask what quality control procedures were instituted before sending the machine to Liem's? How do we know that it wasn't delivered and set up by a technician who fully tested the machine before he was paid cash by Liem? Is it really beyond the realm of possibility that a 'new woodworker' could make a mistake on a brand new machine that he was unfamiliar with how to operate? All I know is that Liem misunderstood Rockler saying they would send someone out to look at it (has anyone ever had a representative from Rockler come to their house to service a machine?) and couldn't understand the explanation ('gave me a bunch of nonsense') when they tried to explain it over the phone. Then he was shocked when they told him it would cost $140 to fix and goes on a tirade on this forum.

I guess that is my biggest problem with this thread. Liem hears what he doesn't want to hear and goes 'public' with it. What about trying to go through regular channels? Did he contact Jet? No. He said we were right that he should contact Jet. But why should he bother when he's got a bunch of surrogates (who really don't know what happened). Instead we can bully the manufaturer by threats of a boycott, bad publicity etc into doing what we want him to do. Several people have commented that when Grizzly's owner see's a problem expressed on this forum the owner will personally look into it and IF IT IS A GRIZZLY PROBLEM will deal with it quickly and efficiently. The motor mount shiping problems is an excellent example. Do you really think Shiraz would continue this excellent service if every time someone had a gripe about a Grizzly product Saw Mill Creek, as seemingly a united opposition, jumped all over him and cast aspersions on his business ethics, quality control and intelligence? If we appreciate manufacturer (or distributor) input, and enjoy helping them serve us better, into the forum we are going to have to give them room for making decision that may not favor the customer.

Peter
Peter,
I agree with most of your post except there are times when companies, for one reason or another, drop the ball causing ill will amongst customers and potential customers. Given the number of corporate mergers that happen,there is I feel, some resultant deafness in customer service department. And this is a good forum for companies to gain an idea of what customers think of them. And the customer is always right.

[Dave Carey]

I can't comment on the lathe issue but I bought the Jet Supersaw a few years ago (after WMH became involved) along with a Jet Air Cleaner and a Jet Dust Collector. The belt on the saw broke and could not be replaced because the gear on the spindle (my terminology not theirs) was put on with lock tite. By the time I figured that out the set screws were stripped. Jet/WMH immediately admitted to a problem at the factory in Taiwan and their error in not alerting me to the lock tite issue when they sent the replacement belt. After a couple/three months of waiting (uncsuccessfully) for the spindle assembly to arrive from Taiwan Jet/WMH voluteered to replace the saw! In the meantime they sent me an upgraded mitre gauge for my inconvenience. So for lack of what was probably no more than a $50 part they replaced a $1000 saw in the interest of customer support. My only problem was getting the sucker out of the basement; maybe their customer service has gotten worse but I've got no quarrels with them. I bought the saw through the local Woodcraft store; the manager was as amazed as I was about their solution to the problem but it cost him nothing but some bookkeeping to keep the record straight. I'll certainly consider other Jet tools despite the lathe story.

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

With everything that has been said, I'm not going to wade into the fray. Instead, I am going t make an observation about a general feeling in the retail market. That being "The customer is ALWAYS right!"

Having spent over forty years in marketing, sales, and other areas that have contact with industrial, retail, and wholesale customers, I offer the following:

For Per and others of like thinking........"The customer is NOT always right, but they ARE always the customer."

As a seller, you must decide whether the customer should be placated in the particular instance. Sometimes they are trying to scam you. (I DO NOT THINK this is the case here.) You must weigh the consequences of your actions, whatever they are against any repercussions that might come from them, such as good or bad press.

Just food for thought,

Bruce

[Steve Clardy]

104 responses to this thread. wow.
I'm not going to wade through it I guess.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

For Per and others of like thinking........"The customer is NOT always right, but they ARE always the customer."

Bruce

Bruce.........November 15th I'll have my 30th year of customer service completed. Your comment is so correct. The most difficult part of my job is not the technical end but the customer relations end. Often the customer has unrealistic, unreasonable expectations.

[Larry Cooke]

I'm sorry if you disagree with what I am saying, but it seems that what I value most about this forum is being lost.....Peter,

You just saved me a lot of typing, thank you.

From the initial post, it was not really determined what exactly was wrong or what could have caused and or prevented the problem. I'm certainly not qualified to say one way or the other, but suffice it to say there are two sides to every story. Everyone here seemed to immediately jump on the the customers side with very little information...

Personally, I feel that Rockler/Jet was being treated somewhat unfairly here. I will say this, if I ever have a problem with a manufacturer I would exhaust all my possibilities with the manufacturers first. Sure I might ask for help as to whom or where to go, but rest assured I wouldn't be posting a strong message like the one without having tried all the avenues first.

Larry

[John Bailey]

I was interested in this thread because I recently had a problem with a small company(non-woodworking) that had been bought out by a large corporation. So, I read all the posts. I think the thread was proper, the posts were proper (with some on the edge) and, especially, the ending was proper.

Thanks Sawmill Creek.

John

[Terre Hooks]

Wow.

First off, I can't beleive I've read this entire wheelbarrow full of mess.

What a pile on. You people that piled on are real pansies. Grow up. Some fella buys a lathe and it tears up. He calls someone and undoubtedly doesn't get all the information out correctly or there's some miscommunication somewhere. I've never seen such a problem with Delta, Jet, Grizzly or anyone.

This whole mess is one big fiasco blown utterly out of proportion by all of you so-called "saints of the Woodworking Forums". And then Rockler beats the response by WMH and you all get in line to back-slap the fella. Then Sooper-Dooper Moderator signs on and whisks out a Letter to Jet and we have to jump in line to quote and double quote and giggle and smile and toast our Kool-aid and Sparkling water to him. <Bows to sooper-dooper moderator>

Then you think the best solution is "Maybe we should keep her in the dark to see what "option" she comes up with." Oh, jollies. Yep, that's the path to take.

You people need to pull your heads out from the hole you got it shoved in. And you, Mr. Sooper-Moderator, you should be ashamed to show your face the next time you make a trip to General Industrial Supply.


Oh, and not to be outdone, Mr. Mark goes and makes the mistake of blasting this horrendus-sky-is-falling mess on some other Level-headed Woodworking Forums. Another super hero in the making.



Yep. You people have done a real good job. Pile on. Who's next? Lemme guess. Somebody's arbor wrench is gonna break or bend and Delta is going to refuse to ship a new FREE one. Is that when we jump in and have another 120 post thread of nothing?

[Donnie Raines]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Rob Bodenschatz]

I was interested in this thread because I recently had a problem with a small company(non-woodworking) that had been bought out by a large corporation. So, I read all the posts. I think the thread was proper, the posts were proper (with some on the edge) and, especially, the ending was proper.

Thanks Sawmill Creek.

John
Looks like you spoke too soon.

[Scott Henderson]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::cool:

[Erik Rudd]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Which post surprises you? :confused:

[tod evans]

so terre, what`s your real take on the whole thread?:rolleyes:

[rodney mitchell]

That's great, it should have been handled that way at the beginning by the manager at the Rockler store. Would have saved everyone a lot of typing.

RM

[Donnie Raines]

Not really sure....I just wanted toget in before the lock.:cool:

[Terre Hooks]

so terre, what`s your real take on the whole thread?:rolleyes:


My honest take on the whole thread is 12-14 supposedly GROWN MEN haven't had much excitement in their lives for quite a while.

[Erik Rudd]

Not really sure....I just wanted toget in before the lock.:cool:

Well the whole thing has given me a creepy feeling.... I don't think that this is how an issue should be handled.

[Scott Henderson]

Hooks--Haven't read through the entire thread. Was there...touching....involved:confused:

[Alan DuBoff]

I just can't help but point out in this dirty diaper of a thread, we owe a great deal of thanks to Ken Salisbury, as it was Ken who actually did the work that should have been done by the original poster (i.e., customer).

Getting a resolution for a problem, even if it's your OWN fault, should be done by the customer. Most all companies will ultimately replace a tool, even when the customer has damaged it, if the customer is honest about it. DAMHIKT;)

Part of being responsible is knowing that it's not the fault of the clerk who answers the phone at Rockler, or WHM to make the tools and support to be so bad that I wouldn't buy tools from them anymore, especially if it's a company I happily own some tools by.

Customers are responsible to learn how to change their own diapers, IMO.

Liam, please use this as an example on getting a resolution for a problem. Ken went to WHM and/or another went to Rockler. Considering how many people were effected by your lathe problem, you'd better be using it a LOT and making some great things on it for your family a friends. :D

And by all means take my comments with a large grain of salt, I certainly don't consider myself to be any so called <cough> "expert" around here. :p

[Erik Rudd]

I'm more of the opinion that Ken would have done the original poster a much bigger favor by suggesting that he contact Rockler and WMH via e-mail than taking it upon himself to do it for him. Besides it almost seems like bullying to drop the "I'm the Moderator of...blah, blah, blah..." Just my $.02

[Don Baer]

Lets see now, this thread has gone from bashing a supplier and a manufacturer to creekers bashing each other. Some say that those who did the bashing need to get a life yet they are spending there time criticising there fellow woodworkers. Bottom line is Liem had a prolem some creekers helped him out and the problem is solved. Now can we get back to wood working and tools. I think this thread has gone on long enough. If I were a moderator I'd lock up this thread.

[Per Swenson]

The customer is always right is a phrase developed by a english store owner.

He died penniless and insane, never the less there is much debate that

this should be held true today. I believe it does. Both as a customer and

purveyor of services. The day I don't show up on a call back no matter who's

fault it is, is the day my word of mouth customers start talking to each other.

Couple of those phone calls and I will be on line for the application of

Wallmart Greeter. (see other thread)

As for this latest voice of reason, after the issue has been resolved,

where was your wisdom in the beggining? Where it belonged.

As for using sawmill creek as a cudgel, I admit it did get out of hand,

but you have to ask Liem if the ends justified the means, as he is the only

one who can tell us.

Per

[Ken Salisbury]

I'm more of the opinion that Ken would have done the original poster a much bigger favor by suggesting that he contact Rockler and WMH via e-mail than taking it upon himself to do it for him. Besides it almost seems like bullying to drop the "I'm the Moderator of...blah, blah, blah..." Just my $.02

It so happens I have multiple contacts at the 2 companies involved as a result of being moderator here and it was easier for me to contact these folks than it would have been for me to relate that contact list to Liam for him to muddle thru. I maintain contact information to many suppliers and manufacturers. Also if dropping the "moderator" works to get attention - I'll use it.


Then Sooper-Dooper Moderator signs on and whisks out a Letter to Jet and we have to jump in line to quote and double quote and giggle and smile and toast our Kool-aid and Sparkling water to him. <Bows to sooper-dooper moderator>

As it turned out Scott Ekman (Rockler) was already on the problem and was in the mist of fixing it at the same time I was sending mail and making calls. No one has to toast me, giggle, or smile - just trying to lend a hand. Scott was the hero here - not me.


And you, Mr. Sooper-Moderator, you should be ashamed to show your face the next time you make a trip to General Industrial Supply.

I don't know what GIS has to do with it. I am still a good friend of the owner who also happens to be on my "contact list". Why in the worldwould I be ashamed of what I did.

Now that everyone has bashed both Jet and Rockler, lets now bash the moderator for trying to help a fellow woodworker. He has a very thick skin and can stand the heat, so lets go get him ! ! !

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Now that everyone has bashed both Jet and Rockler, lets now bash the moderator for trying to help a fellow woodworker. He has a very thick skin and can stand the heat, so lets go get him ! ! !

Do I need to take a number or get in line?:confused: ;) :D

Thanks for helping Ken!

[john whittaker]

Well...

I appreciate what Mr. Peter Gavin wrote...especially this:

"but it seems that what I value most about this forum is being lost..... the willingness to exchange ideas, techniques and random thought in a pleasant, non confrontational manner".

Mr. Hooks...It seems to me your post is a bit harsh. Not at all "non-confrontational". I am sure most of these "GROWN MEN" you site had very good intentions in trying to help out a fellow woodworker. Some may not like it but that is no reason to try to be-little them. If I were in a fix I'd be proud to have these men on my side. At your young age I should think you could show a little more respect. I will not say anything else because these "grown men" can fend for themselves and it does absolutly no good to call folks names...especially on a keyboard.

[Bob Noles]

Thanks Ken for leaving this thread going.

I don't know if the "national heat wave" is affecting people or what, but after reading thru this, I became hysterical at some of the comments toward the end. I haven't laughed this hard in I don't know when.

Y'all are too much :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Chris Padilla]

Let's face it, when a chance presents itself to "stick it to The Man," somehow, all us working class, the taxpayers, red, white and blue collars, etc., etc., like the opportunity to help out our brethern (the other working class, taxpayer, red, white and blue collars, etc., etc.).

Never have we such a power as we can wield online and with instant/fast commuincation. With great power comes great responsibility....

[Scott Donley]

peter, from one ol` hippie to another........peaceDitto, and don't forget the free love :D

[Terre Hooks]

Sorry, people, but many things stated by the OP just does not jive.



When I did a careful inspection I found pieces of the upper pulley. Called them one more time and told them what I found, they said that they will send someone to my house the next day to fix it.

WMH does not send people to fix tools. They would not say that.



I waited 3 days, no one came, no calls.

He waited 3 days? Riiiiiight. Since most of you want to get in some form of a line, line up and tell me that you'd wait three days for someone that "said" they would be there tomorrow. Please form a single file line.




They said " what do you mean, we don't offer that kinda service" Now they say I have to bring it in to a service center.


Kinda what I said in my second sentence in this post.




Again, form another line and tell me how many times each of you has heard this type of service from Jet/PM/WMH. Or Delta. Or DeWalt. Or Grizzly. Or any other.




This dog ain't huntin. He's tired.

[Larry James]

Thinking...

1- Should a customer vs. supplier/manufacture dispute or rant be posted in General Wooding and Power Tools Forum, or would it be more appropriate posted in (moved to) Off Topic Forum as general discussion?

2- Should we, as members, have guidelines with respect to what minimum information is required before we go ballistic.

For example,
a- clear description of problem
b- pertinent equipment info
c- steps taken to resolve problem and replies (both sides of story)
d- etc.

3- I know I’m stretching it on this one. - Shouldn't we try to rationally suggest a means or method of resolving the problem that does not include firearms or blackballing a person or company before we know the whole story.

4- Be careful using our collective clout - overused, clout becomes meaningless. Chris Padilla (post #129), said it well: “Never have we such a power as we can wield online and with instant/fast communication. With great power comes great responsibility.... “

I hasten to add, many posts did suggest a more positive approach, and, perhaps, were lost in the rush to judgement.

End of my thinking... sigh

Larry

[Mike Dauphinee]

Holy cow Larry, a voice of sanity and moderation. Good on ya. Sounds quite sensible.

[Cecil Arnold]

Wow.

You people need to pull your heads out from the whole you got it shoved in. And you, Mr. Sooper-Moderator, you should be ashamed to show your face the next time you make a trip to General Industrial Supply.


Terre,

Since you are in the mode of correcting others, you might want to edit your post. The correct word is hole, as in hole in the ground, not whole, as in I can't beleive I ate the whole thing. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Carl Crout]

I own many Jet tools and will buy more.....

The customer is NOT always right........... Look at all of you guys that buy tools from Home Depot, use them over the weekend and then take them back on Monday for a full refund......

I am still not convinced that the original poster didn't break the lathe.
Was it a floor model? had the package been opened?

I would like to see Jet's evaluation of the product before (most of) you guys bad mouth them.

I have a Jet 1442 and it works great.........

[John Bailey]

Looks like you spoke too soon.

Probably, but anyone who gets on Ken's case gets my "ignore" button pushed. Ken's one of my hero's around here and he taught us all a lesson on how to resolve a conflict. He's a class act. No need getting upset with anyone, just listen and learn.

John

[Mark Rios]

I own many Jet tools and will buy more.....

The customer is NOT always right........... Look at all of you guys that buy tools from Home Depot, use them over the weekend and then take them back on Monday for a full refund......

I am still not convinced that the original poster didn't break the lathe.
Was it a floor model? had the package been opened?

I would like to see Jet's evaluation of the product before (most of) you guys bad mouth them.

I have a Jet 1442 and it works great.........



wait, wait, wait.........I just had to quote this.............

Carl, in the seven months you've been here, just EXACTLY how many of the folks here have you come to know well enough to know that "WE ALL" buy tools for the weekend and then take them back? You are accusing "ALL OF US GUYS" of being dishonest, crooked, selfish people? You need help my friend.

Okay "ALL US GUYS", we've just been accused of being dishonest weekend woodworking warriors. Let's go to LOWE"S this weekend instead of HD so they don't catch on. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Stu...you're gonna have to go back to Joyful Honda though, sorry buddy. Maybe you can wear a disguise.

WHEW!!!.....that's a good one.


I'm gonna do like Ken does..........

This is Mark, in Modesto, looking down and shaking his head.

And I'm very glad for you that your Jet 1442 works well.

[Bart Leetch]

I guess whether this was a strike or a ball depends on which team your on. It seems someone has tried to kill the umpire.

Ok everyone let have a free for all up on the mound bring you bats.

Was it a swing or a miss? Its anybodies guess it just depend on how long this game goes on.

So is the bashing to continue (oneupsmanship) or are we going to return to being nice wood working people?

[Matt Meiser]

The customer is NOT always right........... Look at all of you guys that buy tools from Home Depot, use them over the weekend and then take them back on Monday for a full refund......

I take mine back on Sunday night. The lines are shorter then. :rolleyes:

[Steve Clardy]

Ok. I'm fessing up. I said I wasn't going to read this whole thread, but I just did.

What a mess:eek:

[Lee DeRaud]

Ok. I'm fessing up. I said I wasn't going to read this whole thread, but I just did.You didn't really have to: if you wait long enough, it'll come back around again. :eek: :p

[Lee DeRaud]

I take mine back on Sunday night. The lines are shorter then. :rolleyes:Another good thing about being retired: Monday morning at 10:30 is when the cute chick is working at the Customer Service desk. :cool:

[Ken Salisbury]

I am not gonna close this thread, however can't we just let it drop. Everyone + some have gotten in their shots.

[David Durgy]

This is Mark, in Modesto, looking down and shaking his head.



Mark, you did a very good job putting the cart before the horse in this thread and now you pull a backdoor semantics redirect. Nowhere since the problem was resolved do I see you retract any of your earlier comments about companies losing you as a customer as if you showed us how you ever were in the first place. Right or wrong, people took actions and made statements and there were merits to both sides. You on the other hand, IMHO added nothing to the conversation but fuel to the fire. You added nothing to the solution from the beginning and your swan song was a spelling lesson. Reading the thread from start to finish will bear that out.

I'm glad it worked out well and I hope the OP and all others that forgot what their parents and teachers taught them on problem solving learned something.

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

Well Terre, aren't you glad you were allowed to speak your mind, too?

Freedom is a GREAT THING. That includes the freedom to walk away from something you think is childish.............................or to add your observations, too!

Bruce

[Mark Rios]

So..........anyone want some ice cream?






:D

[David Durgy]

So..........anyone want some ice cream?

:D

Post in all the woodworking sites you instigated today about the final outcome and I'll buy.

[Erik Rudd]

I am not gonna close this thread, however can't we just let it drop. Everyone + some have gotten in their shots.
I certainly hope that you didn't take my post as a shot. I was merely suggesting, as someone much wiser than I once did, that teaching a man to fish is more productive in the long run than fishing for him. And...that droping the "I'm a Moderator at...blah, blah, blah..." is kind of like being a bully and will eventually get old with those on whom the line is used.

That's not a shot, it's an opinion based on experience. Ignore it if you want but please don't mischaracterize it as a belligerant post.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

....................Stu...you're gonna have to go back to Joyful Honda though, sorry buddy. Maybe you can wear a disguise.

Dude they know me by name there now :rolleyes: :D When they see me coming, they know their profits are going up that month :p :o

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Sorry, people, but many things stated by the OP just does not jive.




WMH does not send people to fix tools. They would not say that.




He waited 3 days? Riiiiiight. Since most of you want to get in some form of a line, line up and tell me that you'd wait three days for someone that "said" they would be there tomorrow. Please form a single file line.






Kinda what I said in my second sentence in this post.




Again, form another line and tell me how many times each of you has heard this type of service from Jet/PM/WMH. Or Delta. Or DeWalt. Or Grizzly. Or any other.




This dog ain't huntin. He's tired.

I don't know why you just don't come right out and call Leim a bald face liar, seems to be the direction you are going....?

Just wondering is all....:rolleyes:

[Don Baer]

You guys have posted 148 postes to this thread and ver 7,000 vies, haven't you wasted enough time talking about a dead subject. I hope that soon one of the mods will loch this thread so it will quit popping up to the top of the list. GIVE IT A REST. LIFE IS TO SHORT !!

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Sorry Don but this is just too much fun.

Me? I'm hoping for a Top 5 finish.

Marty, here we come!!!!!

[Mark Rios]

Post in all the woodworking sites you instigated today about the final outcome and I'll buy.


David, my dear friend, I actually did just EXACTLY that IMMEDIATELY after I first read Scott's reply to the thread. I'm sure that you will believe me but if you do go back to check, please check the time stamps.


Thanks David, and I've got two big scoops of your choice waitin' for ya, my treat, if you get out this way.

[Frankie Hunt]

I am very glad that Liem is getting the problem resolved, however I have to wonder if this would have been the outcome if Liem had of been left on his own, without the kind of heat this thread has generated.

Is everyone now feeling good about Jet? That seems to be my impression from reading some of the later postings. (I know Liem said he was not)

In the original tread Liem said he called them (implied Jet because of sentence structure). He said he took it to a service center (implied Jet service center because of sentence structure). Looks to me like he got a raw deal both times. I don't see this as a "blown out of porportion, pile on, big fiasco, you need to pull your heads out from the hole you got it shoved in" mess.

I bet the outcome would have been different without this thread and it being seen by the proper people.

[Liem Tran]

I really appreciate the support everyone has shown. For those who didn’t, that’s fine. But it seems that some are accusing me of lying. There’s nothing I can do, or say to convince anyone to believe me. All I did was told the story the way it happened. When I posted the thread I had no intention on bashing Jet or Rockler’s . I just wanted to share my problems with SMC and to see if anyone had any recommendations. To those who said I should’ve email Jet and Rockler’s first before posting, I did, they didn’t respond. In fact Jet still haven’t made any contact with me as of yet. As you all know by now, Rockler’s did contact me to address the problem and I thank them for that. I felt that I did all I could and no one seemed to care but SMC. I don’t think it should take 5 phone calls to one manufacturer to solve one problem. I’ve managed my fathers company for the past 10yrs, so I do know a bit about customer service and how a customer should be treated. I remember someone mentioning that I’m a new woodworker and that it is possible that I made the mistake of pushing the spindle lock button. I do admit that I’m a newbie but, I have a habit of reading the complete manual before attempting to operate any power tool. (Don’t want to loose any fingers or worse…) Before I posted, I was very angry. But I’ve pretty much decided that I’d go ahead and pay for the repair to get it over with. The post was just a glimmer of hope. I had no idea that it would get this far. I’m not saying that I regret what I did. But I do admit it did get somewhat out of hand. There are some things I want to say about Jet’s service. (That made me mad) But I don’t think it’s quite appropriate to say it publicly, so I won’t. I personally don’t think that it’s fair for Jet or Rockler’s to have to pay for the damages if I was the one who caused it. In this case it isn’t fair for me to pay for it when it came out of the box damaged. Anyone in my situation would probably be very angry too. Remember, I’m not angry because the tool was damaged. I’m angry because of the way I was treated. For those who don’t agree with what I did, hopefully it’ll never happen to you, but if it ever does, you’ll understand how I felt. Well, like I said above, either you believe me or you don’t. I’m not here to argue with anyone, I’m just here for the valuable information and to share my thoughts.


Thanks again SMC
Liem

[Mark Rios]

I really appreciate the support everyone has shown. For those who didn’t, that’s fine. But it seems that some are accusing me of lying. There’s nothing I can do, or say to convince anyone to believe me. All I did was told the story the way it happened. When I posted the thread I had no intention on bashing Jet or Rockler’s . I just wanted to share my problems with SMC and to see if anyone had any recommendations. To those who said I should’ve email Jet and Rockler’s first before posting, I did, they didn’t respond. In fact Jet still haven’t made any contact with me as of yet. As you all know by now, Rockler’s did contact me to address the problem and I thank them for that. I felt that I did all I could and no one seemed to care but SMC. I don’t think it should take 5 phone calls to one manufacturer to solve one problem. I’ve managed my fathers company for the past 10yrs, so I do know a bit about customer service and how a customer should be treated. I remember someone mentioning that I’m a new woodworker and that it is possible that I made the mistake of pushing the spindle lock button. I do admit that I’m a newbie but, I have a habit of reading the complete manual before attempting to operate any power tool. (Don’t want to loose any fingers or worse…) Before I posted, I was very angry. But I’ve pretty much decided that I’d go ahead and pay for the repair to get it over with. The post was just a glimmer of hope. I had no idea that it would get this far. I’m not saying that I regret what I did. But I do admit it did get somewhat out of hand. There are some things I want to say about Jet’s service. (That made me mad) But I don’t think it’s quite appropriate to say it publicly, so I won’t. I personally don’t think that it’s fair for Jet or Rockler’s to have to pay for the damages if I was the one who caused it. In this case it isn’t fair for me to pay for it when it came out of the box damaged. Anyone in my situation would probably be very angry too. Remember, I’m not angry because the tool was damaged. I’m angry because of the way I was treated. For those who don’t agree with what I did, hopefully it’ll never happen to you, but if it ever does, you’ll understand how I felt. Well, like I said above, either you believe me or you don’t. I’m not here to argue with anyone, I’m just here for the valuable information and to share my thoughts.


Thanks again SMC
Liem


Well put Liem and thanks for sharing your explanations of some points that a few members had concerns with. I, for one, am very glad for you that you got the outcome that you did. I'm sure, from reading the posts, that there are very many here who are very glad for you also.

Regarding a point you made; You stated
Remember, I’m not angry because the tool was damaged. I’m angry because of the way I was treated. While chastising me and some other members, someone referred to my posting about your issue in a couple of other forums, and they called it a mistake. I fully disagree with it being a mistake. You were being treated unfairly and dismissed out of hand. I made my posts, not to garner sympathy for you but to have Rocklers and Jet's reply in front of many other people. Their way of handling you concerns was not correct from a business standpoint, IMO. I received about equal amounts of agreement and disagreement. I wasn't concerned with who agreed or didn't though. I wanted our thread read by the companies and for them to see that their customer service message was getting around to lots and lots of people. My crossposting was a success, not a mistake for me.

In the end though, there were a couple of really important members who were able to get your message to the right people and you were taken care of. That's what counts and those people are the ones who deserve the praise along with the company reps who cared about their company's reputation and wanted to maintain it.

I'm looking forward to hearing about your trip to get your replacement lathe and to see what work you will post.

[Ken Salisbury]

OK -- enough is enough - this thread is closed to further postings. Lets all go have a http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/lilbud.gif


http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/misc/moderator.gif