DNA vs. IPA

[Wayne Bitting]

I will be coming across a (hopefully) large sum of green wood from the storms that passed through on Tuesday night. I wasn’t planning on gearing up for turning green wood and drying it for another 6 months or so, but its falling into my hands so I’m not going to complain! My question is most people use DNA for soaking their wood, but would reagent grade isopropyl alcohol be useful (this grade of IPA is very pure)? I have access to 100+ gallons of it at work and no one would care if I took a few gallons home. I use it in small quantities all of the time so the odor doesn’t bother me. Any comments?


P.S. if I get more wood then I can handle I will certinly post it here and let anyone who lives in the Levittown, PA area have some.

[Brian McInturff]

Wayne,
I use IPA for mine. It worked fine on some oak but I had a crack develop after using it on a large holly NE. I'm still in the drying process on the Holly so only time will tell. The Holly may have split all to pieces if not for the IPA, guess I'll never know. I do know that on the oak that one of the bowls started cracking before the bath but since it hasn't moved at all. I was satisfied using it. I'm using Pesticide grade which is probably the same grade you have.
Brian

[Joe Fisher]

Awww, man, I thought we were going to talk about beer! I love India Pale Ale. Nice and hoppy. mmm mm mmmmm mmmmmmmm...beeeeeer.

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

-Joe

[Brian McInturff]

Joe,
You aren't hitting the bottle before noon again are you:D
I figured you for a YUENGLING(sp?) man myself.
Brian

[Joe Fisher]

Heheheh I just finished the last of the Yeungling in my fridge last night :)

I'm a fan of locally brewed beer, and one of my local brew pubs has an awesome IPA. *drooool*

-Joe

[Dave Smith]

Hi Wayne,

I tested IPA thinking the larger molecules would evaporate slower. I didn't have high grade stuff but it still worked OK on the few pieces I tried. Didn't do enough testing to make any conclusions. I do know several people use IPA and say it works for them. I am always interested in feedback on turners experiences with alcohol soaking.

Good luck.

Dave Smith

Weekend forecast, high 90's, die soon in Longview, WA.

[Dick Strauss]

Wayne,
John Hart told me he uses it all of the time for his rough-outs. He seems to think it is better than DNA but hasn't done any serious comparison study as far as I know.

Good luck,
Dick

[Dave Smith]

John gtes a five finger discount at his employers.

Dave

[Dick Strauss]

That's true...price could have something to do with John's enthusiasm!

[Wayne Bitting]

Well it sounds like IPA is work okay and I'm in the same boat as John - five finger discount....hopefully while everyone is at lunch this afternoon I'll go score a couple of gallons!! :D

[Cecil Arnold]

Wayne, if you are getting logs, why not just paint the ends with Anchorseal and not worry about them until you are ready to turn. By that time you should have enough IPA stored, a few gallons at a time, to soak a horse.

[Dario Octaviano]

As far as I know, any alcohol will work....they will vary in effectiveness though.

How it works is osmosis...eventually water in the wood will migrate out and replaced by alcohol...which later will evaporate faster than water alone. If you leave the wood long enough in the solution the water/alcohol mix will ideally equate outside and inside the wood.

Lower grade alcohol will have more water to begin with which will cause less water leaving the wood (given same sized wood and same qty of alcohol). Eventually you alcohol will have more water than alcohol if you keep on re-using it (or not keep it closed enough that it absorbs water from air).

Hope this helps.

[Dave Smith]

Dario I couldn't have said it better myself.

Dave

[Tim Solley]

Awww, man, I thought we were going to talk about beer! I love India Pale Ale. Nice and hoppy. mmm mm mmmmm mmmmmmmm...beeeeeer.

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

-Joe

Oh man, I thought the same thing when I read that title!

I think I'll go brew up an IPA now. Was gonna do a Hefeweizen. Ah heck, I'll make BOTH :D.

Tim

[chad cummings]

What is the thickest you can go with on soaking?

[John Hart]

The thing about IPA is that it can be bought most anywhere but is generally dilluted. You can find it at 50% or even 80% in drugstores but the water content is a problem for drying wood. My five finger discount stuff is 99.9% pure IPA and will suck the moisture right out of your hands. Gotta be careful with it.

As far as thickness....that depends on the grain and the greenness of the wood. The alcohol must be able to permeate the cell wall of the wood...so greener is better. Also, it migrates through the wood via the end grain like a straw. I'd say a thick blank with a 10 inch long grain would take a couple days or so to suck it up....if it's green.

[George Tokarev]

Doesn't matter what alcohol, how long you soak, or the concentration. Protect the turned blank from too rapid water loss by covering the outside, creating a microclimate with high relative humidity. The water bound to the sugars in the cellulose leaves at a rate determined by the ability of the air to haul it away. Relative humidity. Control that to control degrade.

If you want to cut a couple-three days off the dry time, eject free water by spinning the piece at the last at higher speed, and perhaps even ejecting moisture with compressed air. I got a bunch of curly maple to dry without mildew this summer, a constant problem with summer cut and high-humidity stock, and it's been good at keeping the sapwood of fresh cherry pale as well.

Depending on how close you play the thickness game, you can dry a blank easily within a month-six weeks on most northern hardwoods, reaching equilibrium at about 8% moisture at a human-friendly 50% RH at 70 degrees F. Advantage to you in the thickness game if you follow something like the figures in www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/usda/ah188/chapter01.pdf (http://firstgovsearch.gov/search?v%3aproject=firstgov&v%3afile=viv_615%4021%3achNitg&v%3astate=root%7croot&opener=full-window&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.fpl.fs.fed.us%2fdocumnts%2fus da%2fah188%2fchapter01.pdf&rid=Ndoc6&v%3aframe=redirect&rsource=firstgov-msn&v%3astate=%28root%29%7croot&rrank=10&) and pay attention to the grain orientation.

[John Shuk]

I too can get vast amounts of IPA 99.9% pure. I sometimes use it to try and kill any critters. It works pretty well I don't see why it wouldn't work as well as DNA.

[Bill Grumbine]

Awww, man, I thought we were going to talk about beer! I love India Pale Ale. Nice and hoppy. mmm mm mmmmm mmmmmmmm...beeeeeer.

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

-Joe

Me too! Noting like an ice cold IPA on a hot afternoon when I am done turning for the day!

Bill