Is the grass any greener in the "country"? (long)

[Andy Fox]

Now that we have kids, my wife and I are growing more and more discontent with suburban life. I grew up in the suburbs not far from where I live now. My wife grew up in a medium-sized town. Neither one of us has ever lived in the country or on more than 1/2 acre of land. But, we're thinking that country life would be better for our kids and for us.

Some aspects of life we hope to improve:

1. Safety and security.
We live on a corner where one of the 25 mph streets is typically 35 mph actual speed. I have seen people exceeding 50 mph occassionally! Our kids are almost too close to the street in our own backyard at these speeds. :eek:

Predatory door to door salespeople can walk easily up to the door (25 feet from sidewalk), see in the backyard, and generally scope out the place waiting to pounce on us as soon as we're within sight and shouting distance. Hopefully they're the only ones scoping us out. :confused: I would think salespeople would be more reluctant (or at least less frequent) to approach a more remote/secluded house at the end of a long winding driveway, or am I wrong? :confused:

Edit: I almost forgot to mention that one of the salespeople actually parked in our driveway :mad: (small driveway/blocking 1/2 of it) while making rounds one day. They were parked there for several hours. Wife returned home to find the strange vehicle parked, was afraid to go inside the house, I had to leave work to check on the situation. We suspect this was their "retaliation" for us not answering the door any of the 5 times they showed up.

And I almost hate to mention the weekly home invasions that take place around the city. :(

Our general neighborhood has gone downhill since we moved here 8 years ago as far as maturity and positive outlook on life goes. I don't like to listen to rap music anytime, but especially not at 3 am. :mad:

Sure there are plenty of better neighborhoods, but I don't think we can afford the cost of a house and higher property taxes while still having to deal with the other problems.....

2. Traffic congestion is out of control.

3. Noise and air pollution. Someone once pointed out that humans are so adaptable that they adapt to way more than they should. I usually just turn on some woodworking machines and fill the basement air with sawdust so that I don't notice the noise and pollution. ;)

4. Most suburban neighborhoods are homeowners association-controlled. I can't build a shed, and have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of not being allowed to build a shed. Our two car garage barely fits two cars, and with all the stuff we have to store in there, it will barely fit one car.... and we have two fairly small cars.

5. The city schools are an atrocity, and the suburban school is a slight improvement. We'll probably homeschool no matter where we live though.

6. I like being around people, but I need my space and privacy too.
50% of the neighborhood drives by our house and can see and talk to us in our backyard. Our house is 12 feet from our neighbor's house. People we've never even seen before know us! :eek: :o

Am I delusional, or is country life better than this? :confused:

[Tyler Howell]

Hi Andy!
After 53 years of city life I think I'm going to make a brake. I have no regrets. We had to look, but found top notch schools. We use all of the resources, theater, music venues dining and entertainment and exposed the kids. We also escaped to the great wilderness for wonderful adventures.
One of my concerns in looking at rural property is a well and septic:confused: .
No biggie just a concern.
A lot to be said for the protection of big cities in health care and zoning regulations. Be hind ever permit and regulation is usually a fire, death or law suit.

So I say go for the adventure.Good luck

[Andy Fox]

Tyler, thanks for the insights!

Hey..... I just saw you're in MN! Maybe I should take your comments with an extra grain of salt since people come outside for only one month out of the year up there! :D

[Dennis Peacock]

Andy,

I live in the country and LOVE it. I was raised in the country, but have spent some significant time living in the city. I don't have to worry about all the stuff you mention. My worst problem is a neighbors dog that wanders across my yard from time to time. House, shop, and 3 acres of land to do as I please is what I really call: Freedom

Just my 2¢ worth. Oh, and we also homeschool. :D

[Lee Schierer]

Our road has no posted speed. Therefore in PA you can drive 55 legally, some go considerably faster than that.

We get strong doses of O'de cow living just down the road from a dairy farm. We also get low cost garden fetilizer from said farm.

Neighbors here watch out for each other and will tell you if someone is snooping around.

It does take longer, and more gas, to get to work and to shopping.

Wells and septic are your responsibility, but generally not much work.

Salespeople don't call on us much, and we don't see many trick or treaters either.

Here in snow country you also have to contend with icy roads and shovel your own drive and walk.

County schools around here run the gambit from great to poor, check yours out before you buy.

Couldn't get me to live in any city for any price.:D

[Mark Pruitt]

Andy,
A few thoughts.

(1) You are NOT delusional.

(2) I lived 45 years in the city before moving to a relatively rural setting. I've lived here long enough now to see the good and bad in both. Good points: The air IS cleaner. I have more privacy. I live in a neighborhood that has covenants in place, but they are not rigidly enforced and even if they were they are "loose" enough to satisfy any reasonable wishes. Property tax is less. I can sleep at night without having to use those roll-up foam earplugs that I had to use because of the noise level in my former residence. Less traffic congestion, lower crime rate, better schools, etc.

(3) Bad points: I do not have the same convenient access to amenities that I enjoyed before. The nearest Woodcraft store is over an hour away, where it used to be more like 25 minutes, and the store is much smaller than the one I was used to shopping at. The same thing can be said about almost everything else--it takes longer to get there than what I was used to. Further, when I moved here, the telecommunication infrastructure was nowhere near what I was used to having. DSL internet service was non-existent for the first year I was here; Verizon finally woke up and decided that there were a few customers to be had. I still cannot get cable TV; I have to use DirecTV whose prices are outrageous--$55 a month for the bare bones. But I anticipate that more options will become available in the future.

Another bad point is all of the animals that make a meal out of my gardens, but that battle is far from over and by jingles I'm gonna win.:mad:

All in all, I am very happy that I moved, and I jokingly tell people that if I ever have to move back to the city I lived in I will know that God is punishing me.:eek: :p I've been "home" a few times, but each time I am reminded of how much better off I am for having moved. IMHO, city life stinks overall (both literally and figuratively).

Hope this helps.

Mark

P.S. If that creep parks in your driveway again, when you come home just park your car at the driveway entrance blocking him in, and tell him it might take you some time before you can get it moved. Maybe he'll get the point.:mad:

[Cecil Arnold]

Andy, we just sold our place in the country, and were glad to be done with it. The closest Borg was 50-60 miles away, which means three hours to drive the round trip and shop. The local lumber yard and hardware hired kids who didn't have a clue. The VFD, while good intentioned, was a joke. You never saw a deputy sheriff. We always worried about the septic, and while we had a water system, it was $30 per month for the meter before you turned a tap on. Oh, and everyone in the country has a never ending battle with mice, plus armadillos, skunks, and other vermin. I almost fell out of my chair when the ladies in the long skirts, long hair and no make-up showed up one morning (wife was still in her PJ's) and you never knew who was coming down the road until there were there. We had people driving up and turning around and never had a clue as to why.

I guess the point is that both suburbia and the country both have their good and bad sides, just don't over idealize the country, cause it ain't everything it's cracked up to be.

[Robert Mickley]

Usually its fairly quiet. Once in a great while you get some punk going down the road with bass blowing but its not often enough to be a problem.

No zoning. The downfall is your neighbor can do what he wants also and sometimes that may not set well
with you. Of course it could be you doing something the neighbor doesnt like either.

I have more thoughts on this but duty calls BBL

[tod evans]

andy, move! even if you make less money. your kids will grow up with a whole `nother outlook on life, one that i find lacking in most kids raised in suburbia. country life is a lot of work for the entire family, but that work brings a family closer. i haven`t locked my house ever, i leave the keys to the cars in the ignition, if it`s raining and i feel froggy i can grab a bar of soap and head out the back door neeked as a jaybird and not worry about being arrested. our kids go to public schools and have none of the problems we hear of associated with suburban schools, classes are 15-25 kids and the teachers maintain control..we wave at eachother when going down the road and know the neighbors kids-n-critters names.......yeah my vote goes to livin` in the country...02 tod

[Mike Cutler]

Andy.

I live on ~2 acres with a stream running through the backyard. I have 3 neighbors, because the course of the stream won't allow anymore houses to be built. All around me are farms, state forests, Sand and Stone yard. Small stuff.

The dog and cat keep me in poison Ivy for most of the summer, and the flying bugs are horrible. I get the occasional squirrel in the house in the winter, and mowing the lawn on 90+ deg days can make condo fee's look downright inviting.

The kids in our 'hood are kinda funny. They wear the MTV Do-rags, listen to the Gangsta rap, and sit in the front yards listening to music too loud, and to late during the summer. Ya' see the same kids at the local fairs wearing overall's, a John Deere hat and showing livestock. Nice kids.

Had a little trouble with Gravel trucks going to fast in the spring of '93. They were really hauling down the road. The above mentioned kids were really small then and I was afraid that one of them would get hit in the road.
I called the guy that ran the Sand and Stone business and asked if he could get the guy's to slow down a bit because of the kids. He told me that the back gate they were using wasn't supposed to be open, and they weren't supposed to be leaving the yard by the gate. He closed that gate 13 years ago. No cops, no lawyers, no yelling and screaming. He just closed it so that they had to exit on the main road.

We talk to each other at the mail box, piss and moan about taxes, and the idiot politicians, yak at each other while doing yardwork. Hand carry the mail to the rightful owner, when it gets in the wrong box.

I was born and raised in Los Angeles, and there are some things I miss about LA. This is my home though, and I wouldn't change it for anything. It's a very nice life I have for myself. I'm blessed and fortunate.

[Don Baer]

When I moved to the house I am selling it was the sticks. I did move into a development but we only had 1 grocery store and 1 traffic light. We were suronded by grape fields and open space. Shepards used to graze there sheep in the open fields and often when driving to the store we'd have to stop while the sheep crossed the road. Sold that house and moved to a igger one 10 years later. Still fairly open but gettin developed so we moved up the hill. Now 19 years later we are moving out of state. In the country. Don't have a lot of land, just a 1/4 acre but still it's not the city and it's not even suburbs, yet. I'm sure some day it will be but at least with a 1/4 acre It wont be to bad.

I say go for it.

[Matt Meiser]

We live in a county neighboring Toledo. We are enough out in the country that it is really rural, but relatively close to major services. To me, that's the ideal setting.

It takes a lot more time to maintain our property, but I usually enjoy it. Access to services--cable, dsl, etc is non-existant. Even getting quality phone service has been difficult since there is 6 miles of wire between us and the switch. Shopping means we have to go about 7 miles to the nearest grocery store and 8 to the nearest hardware store. Lowes/HD are 10 miles and about 20 minutes. They did just open a small diner-type restaraunt 5 minutes from our house where we've become regulars for dinner. Our school district is pretty good, but my daughter will probably be going to private school near where my wife works. On our road, the current zoning has required enough frontage (330') that the houses are pretty spread out even though it is almost fully built out. I've lived in houses with well/septic nearly all my life. Septic tanks don't need much more maintenance than pumping them out every few years. As long as your well is in a good water supply, it won't need much of anything. You do loose water when the power goes out unless you have a generator. Any you may want/need a water softening system if you have a lot of minerals. Natural gas may or may not be available and propane takes a little vigilence to make sure you don't run out. We have a gas dryer, water heater, furnace and fireplace just like city dwellers though. We just needed propane conversion or propane models. My shop building is 30x48, and I need more storage so I'll probably put up another barn next year. If it is under 400sqft, I won't even need a permit. My yard is 330x1320, so I'll have plenty of room. We paid about the same as a similar sized house as in the city, but with the barn and property. Our taxes are less than $1600/yr. We do have to pay for our garbage disposal though--costs $25 every three months. I wouldn't want to move into the city for anything. And living in Perfectville would be even worse.

[Robert Mickley]

Ok now that I'm back, had to help cous with the round baler for a bit, one of them living in the country things :D

I'm close enough to town that I can get to the borgs in 15 or 20 minutes, woodcraft is an hour away, Hartville hardware is 45 minutes away.


The kids in our 'hood are kinda funny. They wear the MTV Do-rags, listen to the Gangsta rap, and sit in the front yards listening to music too loud, and to late during the summer. Ya' see the same kids at the local fairs wearing overall's, a John Deere hat and showing livestock. Nice kids.

We have the same kids around here :D

I've lived in towns, both big and small. Give me the country anyday. It may be more work in the long run but its a whole lot more rewarding

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Andy............It's really a matter of personal preference.........it takes all kinds!

It's a matter of what you prefer and what you are willing to do to live in a given place.

Myself.........We lived in a Chicago suburb for over 4 years but I didn't like raising my kids in a big city setting. I took a 35% reduction in income to transfer to Lewiston, Idaho but it was all overtime. But that was okay as it gave me more time to spend with my family.

I'd live in the country and not in this small town but my wife prefers having good neighbors close by.

It's really a matter of personal preference and what you are willing to do to live in a given place. Both the city and the country have good points and bad points.

Good luck with your decision!

[Ken Garlock]

Andy, you didn't say where in Ohio you live, but if it is in the greater Cleveland area, you have my sympathy.:rolleyes:

If you are serious, do some weekend joy-rides into what you regard as potential areas. With 2 children of course schools are important. Be careful with your school district choice. From experience I can say that rating isn't the whole story. If you can work it out, private school is the answer. (School vouchers are the answer, weed out the bad schools. But that is a whole discussion in itself.)

We decided to move to the country back in 2001 and found a 5 acre lot about 5 miles from town. The closest housing development was 2 miles away, now they are within a mile.:( So, look at the population growth potential. Does some farmer want to get rich by selling out to a developer?

The thing we liked was being able to design and build our house to our specs, not some cookie cutter design from some track builder. As a result we have what we want and enjoy it very much. We have a designated front yard, and the remainder is in hay. We have a fenced in area that makes up our back yard, and the remainder is in hay. Letting a farmer cut and take the hay is a good deal. He gets the animal feed, and I get a tax evaluation of $4 per acre.:cool: The best part is that we are part of a subdivided farm where all the lots are at least 5 acres with deed restriction that the lots may not be further subdivided.

We are on a water coop which will soon be cut over to city water. I am not sure about that, but no one asked me, they told me.;) We have a dose septic system. The dose comes from having a second second septic tank that when the tank level get high enough a sump pump kicks in and pumps the liquid out into the leach field out in the hay field. It was do it that way or put in an aerobic system. I would never settle for an aerobic system as you have a agitator motor that runs continuously, as in all the time, to stir up the little bugs in the tank. Can you say electric bill? Plus, by law, you must have annual inspections that can run a couple hundred bucks.:eek:

Back in the late 1970s, we lived in the Akron area, and bought a 3 acres site south of Akron, near Clinton. We built a ranch house and enjoyed the country. What i didn't like was getting out the Cub Cadet to plow the snow out of the 150 ft driveway. I also didn't really like the 15 mile drive to work each morning, but that was not a 'deal breaker' as they say.

Would we do it again, heck yes, no question. Our only consideration, now some 5 years later, is did we get far enough out of town.:confused:

[Matt Meiser]

Hartville hardware is 45 minutes away.

Drive by gloat alert!

[Robert Mickley]

Drive by gloat alert!

Who? Me? NAHHHHHH

Andy I wasn't even paying attention, move down this way and I'll let you help out on the sawmill :D :D :D

[Art Mulder]

Andy,

I grew up in a rural area of Niagara. My folks had 1 acre of land. Yup, lots of space. Yup, lots of privacy. Not crowded, not noisy.

yes, as other have said, the traffic was sometimes rather fast on the road, but the backyard was big enough that we never really had problems with that.

Mowing the grass ... well that took a while.

When I was young (like grade 6 and lower) it was fine, as there were other kids around to play with. But High School was kind of isolating. There weren't any kids around my age. I could never even think of joining an after school HS sport team or any other sort of after-school activity, as I had to get on the bus for the 40 minute drive home. I actually ended up hanging around with the neighbour who was 4 years my junior, which wasn't always a good thing.

But I had lots of land (neighbouring farmers) where I could walk and ramble. We had the best fresh fruit from farmers, and our own trees. I grew large pumpkins and sold them in the fall. There were big trees to climb, and neighbourhood dogs.

I "worked" a bit for the neighbour when I was 12/13, worked for my dad when I was 14, and then at 15, I could find a summer job at the greenhouse a mile up the road. There were enough jobs for kids to get started on. Here in the city, most kids can't get a job until they are at least 16, and usally just at McDonalds. I really don't think that is so good for city kids.


I left, went to college, and ended up living and working in cities. and Now that I'm an adult, with a family of my own, living on your basic tiny suburban lot (like 50x120 or some such, I can never remember), I sometimes also wonder about moving out of the city and finding something a bit bigger, with more space.

but I tell ya... giving up my DSL line would be very tough. :eek:


Best,
...art

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Having lived in both the city and the country, I can say with all confidence that I much prefer the country.:D But the country is not without its shortfalls.
I would much prefer not to be on a septic system. We often clean snow off of the drive only to have to wait 2 or 3 days to have a snow plow open the road (and at the same time fill in the end of the drive). A neighbor's well went dry and in the back of my mind I thought "Is ours next?". It is a 20 mile trip to find good shops, restaurants or movies. Be prepared to pay for or pay more for trash collection and homeowners insurance (volunteer fire department and long distance to find water for a pumper). This is often offset by lower property tax. My shop is maybe 60 feet from my house and I have encountered a few animals on my way in after dark--opossum, skunk (friendly) and coyote. In spite of these issues, I wouldn't consider moving back to the city unless such a move is motivated by health issues.

[Vaughn McMillan]

I've lived in the country (as a kid), in medium cities, and in one of the largest cities. I prefer the country, although LOML isn't really a salt o' the earth kind of gal, so I'll probably never have the secluded mountain cabin in snow country that appeals sometimes.

We're currently in a uniquely semi-rural setting on the very edge of Los Angeles. There are horse properties nearby, and we're only a few minutes away from the Angeles National Forest boundary. Three of our next-door neighbors' back yards overlook undeveloped wilderness. We have almost 1/2 acre (but a portion of it is unusable hillside). Our house is at the end of a cul-de-sac, and all of the neighbors in the circle keep an eye on each others' places. Still we feel relatively secluded, although all the usual amenities are nearby. I'd like to eventually get out of here and move to some place that I don't have to share with 8 million of my closest friends. LA is too expensive and has far too many idiots and inconsiderate nimrods living here.

If I had to live in LA (as I do now), this would be the neighborhood. If I didn't have to live in LA (my future dream and plan), I'd be somewhere a bit more off the beaten path, with nearby access to a large enough town to cover most of my shopping and other support needs (food, medical, hardware/home improvement, and preferably a good wood store). I like mountain areas, but LOML, being a lifelong San Fernando Valley Girl, balks at the thought of dealing with cold weather, so I'm still looking for the ideal place to be. Realistically, I can do the bulk of my "day job" work remotely, so as long as I have a good Internet connection, I'm good to go.

Good luck in your decision...sounds like almost anywhere would be better than where you curently are.

- Vaughn

[Jerry Olexa]

YES, move to the country!!!!!! I strongly endorse that for many of the same reasons mentioned above. Some key ones for me are privacy, nature, land, cleaner air,safety, traffic etc, etc. yet we have resources nearby such as restaurants, shopping etc plus high taxes:) :D IMHO, a much better place for you and your family. BTW I lived in both Columbus and Toledo in the past and conducted business in both Cincy and Cleveland. Where are you now??

[Andy Fox]

We're in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio. We moved into a new development/house (tract builder) 8 years ago. This is our first house, and anything was better than an apartment at the time. We're not too thrilled about the house floorplan and space now either. We tried to sell last year for 6 months with no offers, and it seems a surprising number of people here are opting for foreclosure if they really need out quickly. :eek: We've got freight train tracks across the street in neighbor's backyards (and I thought I had noise problems!) I must've ticked off the engineers somehow, because they always blow the whistle right as they get to our house! :rolleyes: We're also in the main flight path for Port Columbus, but cleaning airplane tire skid marks off the roof isn't so bad, no really it's not so bad, really.... :rolleyes: Did I mention that I'm not exactly a real estate genius? :o We do have a larger than typical corner lot which backs to a large, city-owned meadow, stream, then a thin strip of woods--now if that were only on all sides of us, we'd be happy. :)

When we first moved here, there were several cow pastures and corn fields out off the main street, but we knew those would be going bye bye soon. Now, there are developments like ours everywhere, some condos, and some government-subsidized apartments which have started to attract some gang activity. :eek:

Up until a few years ago, we had the drive times that Matt describes. HD/Lowes are still at least 20 min away due to both distance and traffic.

Many of the potential country problems mentioned don't bother me too much. I'd rather get water from an underground source than chemically sanitized river water from the city. I would be happy with a remote mountain cabin, but a few neighbors would be great too. I would limit the grass yard to about 1/4 acre. The rest would be woods (preferably), meadow, or crop (thanks for the idea, Ken!). I might actually get a separate shop building too!

To make things even more interesting, I might be able to work from home soon. That takes care of drive time, but complicates the Internet access that I'd need to work in the boonies. :rolleyes:

It's really interesting and helpful to hear everyone's stories, challenges, and opinions about country living.

[Andy Fox]

Couldn't help but search the MLS listings instead of sleeping. I know this is too far out in the boonies for my telecommute requirement, but geez, I could probably just live off the land here.... :eek: The price is cheaper than my house is appraised at by the county tax underappraiser!

"Vintage Log Cabin on 10 Acres. Built around 1800 out of Hand Hued American Chestnut, which has been extinct since 1906. Placed together in dovetail style. Cabin and property is very rustic.... Natural gas is free to this home.... The 24 X 40 barn has a newer roof and a small storage shed."

(The extinct statement is not true, but maybe it's extinct from this land since they made the latest addition to this cabin. ;) )

[Vaughn McMillan]

Couldn't help but search the MLS listings instead of sleeping. I know this is too far out in the boonies for my telecommute requirement, but geez, I could probably just live off the land here.... :eek: The price is cheaper than my house is appraised at by the county tax underappraiser!

"Vintage Log Cabin on 10 Acres. Built around 1800 out of Hand Hued American Chestnut, which has been extinct since 1906. Placed together in dovetail style. Cabin and property is very rustic.... Natural gas is free to this home.... The 24 X 40 barn has a newer roof and a small storage shed."...)
Tempting, isn't it? :D

Probably be trading one set of problems for another, but some days that "other" set of problems sure sounds inviting. Years ago I was part-owner of a very rustic cabin about 1 hour from home. It was deep inside BLM land (old mining claims) through 3 locked gates. Very secluded. It'd be nice to have something like that available again for "getting away" times, and still have a relatively modern house for the "real world" times.

- Vaughn

[Ian Abraham]

I know city vs county is probably different in our part of the world.. but I'm a country boy at heart.

Just go in with your eyes open. Yes there are big advantages in lifestyle, especially if you want some space and a bit of room to do what you want.

But there is the other side, you have to handle your own water, sewerage etc. Weeds and pests.. and country roads aren't allways as safe as they seem. Rivers aren't fenced and you get a whole lot of other dangers that kids need to be aware of. (Animals, farm machiney etc)

And re things like fire dept... My old farm house, which I left to my Ex partner, caught fire a couple of years back... 30 Mins for the Fire Brigade to get to the site... And then there is no hydrants, so they had to set up pumps in the stream and use tankers... Well they damped down the embers :rolleyes:

We have a lot of people 'move to the country' and then complain about the animal smells, the topdressing planes, the power outages etc.

I'm not saying dont do it... just be aware of the advantages / disadvantages...

Good luck whatever you decide :D .. I'd still move back to the back blocks ;)

Cheers

Ian

[Karl Laustrup]

"The grass is greener on the other side of the fence." Think about that for a second. It doesn't matter what side your on, it's better on the other side.

That being said Andy, I don't think you can go wrong by getting out of the city. A lot of things you're used to having, that are furnished by your city, are going to be your responsibility in the country and may require a steep learning curve.

Most of our townships here in WI have zoning laws and require permits to build etc. While some would think them restrictive, they do help protect people from others wanting to do something strange. I.E. Without these in effect in our township, we could have had a major pig farm set up on about 200 acres.

There are a lot of things to take into account when moving to the country. Shopping, emergency services are two of the more important that come to mind. At least from my standpoint. We also still travel to Madison [about 50 miles one way] to visit major stores, but we now have two Supercenters, a Home Depot, Menards, and Sears within 15 miles.

It would be a major life style change for you I think, but a worthwhile one.

Karl

[Matt Meiser]

Andy, you must live very near my brother and SIL who lives in Pickerington and my BIL and SIL who live at the eastern edge of Pataskala. Anyway, not sure where you work, but it seems like somewhere along I-70 between Pickerington and Hebron would put you "out" but close to civilization for shopping/medical/work/etc. Columbus is getting really built up on the north and northeast sides (I'm only 33 and I remember when there was nowhere to eat between Findlay and I-270 except the McDonalds in Delaware.) However the I-70 corridor doesn't seem as built up once you get out a little ways.

When I visit my customer in Hebron, I stay in Pickerington and the drive isn't bad at all going out. Coming in seems a little worse.

[Mark Pruitt]

I might be able to work from home soon. That takes care of drive time, but complicates the Internet access that I'd need to work in the boonies.
Andy,
One thing I did not mention is that you CAN get high speed internet access via satellite from DirecTV (I think they're calling it Hughes Net now), even if you're in the middle of nowhere, as long as the dish can be positioned correctly (no obstructions). The problem is that this service is outrageously expensive--last time I checked it was over $500 for installation and then about $75 a month. Been a while since I looked so maybe prices have gone down (yeah, RIGHT.):rolleyes: So if you have the $$ to get it, that one issue should not get in the way of a move.
Mark

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I grew up a city boy, been in the boonies since 1992. Nearest milk or Lotto ticket is an 11 mile drive. I drive 55 miles into San Antonio to work, but spend less time in the truck than a lot of folks IN San Antonio that don't drive nearly as far. We moved here from Las Vegas...and that's a helluva change. I was worried I'd go nutty without 'anything' to do, but it only took a couple weeks to adjust. Ideally, I'd like to be 20 miles closer to either San Antonio or Austin...but that's close enough. Cows make excellent neighbors. :D

[Matt Meiser]

Andy,
One thing I did not mention is that you CAN get high speed internet access via satellite from DirecTV (I think they're calling it Hughes Net now), even if you're in the middle of nowhere, as long as the dish can be positioned correctly (no obstructions). The problem is that this service is outrageously expensive--last time I checked it was over $500 for installation and then about $75 a month. Been a while since I looked so maybe prices have gone down (yeah, RIGHT.):rolleyes: So if you have the $$ to get it, that one issue should not get in the way of a move.
Mark

I've got Hughenet. The installation costs about $600 and monthly fees are $59.99 for the basic service. The basic service won't work with most VPN's though. You'll need the "professional" service for that which costs more. And, VPN is slow through satellite due to the latency and the fact that the compression used for delivering most things won't work on secure data. My wife occasionally uses Citrix through our connection, but its really not a workable solution. She mainly is able to use it to look stuff up, not for data entry. Also there are data transfer limits (called Fair Access Policy) that could be a problem if you need to move large files back and forth from the office all day.

[Andy Fox]

Matt, good guesses and ideas on location. I'm leaning toward looking at the less-congested 62 corridor between here and Amish country. Heck, maybe I'll just go all the way and become the first Amish software developer! :eek: :D

Mark and Matt, with high gas prices, I pay $80 a month to commute already, plus $60 for cable + internet, so I just might save money if I can get a workable connection.

[Mark Pruitt]

I've got Hughenet. The installation costs about $600 and monthly fees are $59.99 for the basic service. The basic service won't work with most VPN's though. You'll need the "professional" service for that which costs more. And, VPN is slow through satellite due to the latency and the fact that the compression used for delivering most things won't work on secure data. My wife occasionally uses Citrix through our connection, but its really not a workable solution. She mainly is able to use it to look stuff up, not for data entry. Also there are data transfer limits (called Fair Access Policy) that could be a problem if you need to move large files back and forth from the office all day.
Matt,
I've been told that with HughesNet, you get fast downloads but the uploads take forever. Is there any truth to that, or just a myth?
Mark

[Lee DeRaud]

.... Natural gas is free to this home....Is that realtor-speak for "downwind from adjacent dairy farm"? :D :p :eek:

[Joe Tonich]

Andy, I'm with you. Been stuck here in the city for WAY too long. The school system is not the greatest, and taxes are a killer. With our new contract we can transfer to any district in the state. (ODOT) If I cannot get out of state (TN) LOML and I are going to be looking in the SugarCreek area. Was down there helping to replace guardrails 2 years ago and fell in love with the area.....lots of room for my boys and me. I look out my window now and can see 20 houses, wanna be able to look out and see at least 2 acres and a small pond. Maybe next year......

[Dennis Peacock]

One thing to take note of. Just because you live in the "boonies"? Doesn't mean you do not have DSL or Cable Internet access. If you go "really" far out into the boonies, then it's up to you and HughesNet. :)

[Andy Fox]

Matt,
I've been told that with HughesNet, you get fast downloads but the uploads take forever. Is there any truth to that, or just a myth?
Mark
Mark, I checked out their website, and the upload speed is slower than the download. That might be a problem with uploading larger files frequently.

[Andy Hoyt]

Andy - Move to the country and don't look back. Life finds a way.

But......... whatever you do, don't bring any visual manifestations of the city with you.

[tod evans]

Mark, I checked out their website, and the upload speed is slower than the download. That might be a problem with uploading larger files frequently.


uploads-downloads, none of it will matter when you`re sitting on the porch picking warm horse do-do from between your toes wondering if you should try and sneek past the wife to wash your hands before digging for the tick who`s attacking under your waistband:D

[Frank Fusco]

I was born, raised and worked my early years in Chicago and the suburbs, didn't really know anything else. Then during first years of marriage, many things came together to motivate me to move. I was a hard news photographer in Chicago. Murder and violence happens, I recorded it many-many times. Air was filthy. Got stuck on the expressway (that term is a joke) in summer heat for hours, vomited onto the pavement from heat and fumes. Took a vacation to Kentucky, my small son pointed to the sky and asked "what are those?", after a while it dawned on me he had never seen stars. Sky in city area was too polluted. Taxes on a $14,000.00 house in the late 1960's was over $1000.00 a year. And on an on. We moved to southern Indiana in 1970, later came to Arkansas. I often say we have found and achieved everything we ever hoped and dreamed of, except prosperity. Oh, well. Rich and dead at 50. Or alive, healthy with a happy family and tons of activities. I'll take my quiet spot in a semi-rural area outside a medium sized town.[I live in same county as Tod] BTW, some make fun of Arkansas and it's problems with education. Granted there are localized problems. But, from my daughters graduating high school class (2004), every other graduate that has gone to college, in Arkansas, or out of state has made deans list, including my daughter. I have seen city schools. Graduation means little more than having survived with your life. As others have advised: MOVE.

[Kent Fitzgerald]

Sounds like you're fed up with where you are, and ready for a change. But "the country" may or may not be the right change. As others have said, go in with your eyes open, and realize that rural is not always idyllic

Part of the problem is that as suburbs sprawl into exurbs and former farmland is developed (a significant trend in my area), it's harder to generalize about what "rural" really means. If you're in a new development with closely-spaced houses on small plots and all your neighbors work in offices, but it's a 40 minute round trip to buy milk, is that rural?

My personal perspective is that I've spent about 30 years in east coast cities (enough urban living for me), a couple of years in semi-rural areas, and I'm currently in the burbs. The pitfall I've experienced (twice) in "country" living is what I would call "isolation without seclusion." That is, there isn't much in the way of neighborhood or community, services are minimal, and conveniences are distant, yet you still have the traffic, noise, and other intrusions... exactly what you're hoping to escape,.

Both of these cases were old farmhouses, built very close to what used to be carriage paths and are now heavily over-used two lanes. Daytime is constant traffic, at night 18 wheelers thunder by at 70+ MPH. It feels strangely anonymous, as if the world drives by your door, but no one ever waves or stops unless they need help (directions, gas, or the inevitable accidents).

If seclusion is what you want, you need a large property to guarantee a buffer from neighbors and roads. Think about the future. Undeveloped land = potential future development. That forest, if it's not yours, could be gone in a week.

Without wanting to gloat too much, where we are now is pretty close to ideal. We're on a quiet residential street with almost no through traffic, in an older subdivision with no room for further development. One thing I missed about city life is being able to walk places, so I'm glad our little town has sidewalks throughout. Kids can walk to school, and we can stroll to the modest main street. It's a 10 minute commute to work, 5 minutes to good local hardware and paint stores, and 10 minutes to Woodcraft or Home Depot. Schools, municipal services, and health care are quite good. Sure, I hear my neighbors, but I talk to them too.

I guess the bottom line is that there are still great places to live, but they don't necessarily break down along city / suburb / rural lines. Identify the quality of life factors that are most important to you and go from there.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I was born and raised in Kelowna BC Canada, we lived in the city, but we had lots of family who did not, thus, I spent just as much time in the bush as in the city.

I now live in Tokyo, right down town, and I hate it. I make the best of it (seen my Dungeon?) and while it is a big city, it is Japan, so it is much safer than most any other big city in the world.

Talk about close neighbours, well I think I got you all beat......

43148
(green roof is the neighbours house)

I'd move the the countryside in a heartbeat, if we could.

Cheers!

[Chuck Saunders]

Yeah Kent!
I understand that people like myself want to get out of the city and into the country. I don't understand why someone will buy a 1 acre lot surrounded by farms and then get upset first when the farmer farms, and later when the farmer sells out. If you want the country you have to control your surroundings. And no, I don't think everyone has to get a section, but if you want space it needs to be your space. You can't depend on neighboring lands remaining open. I bought 30 acres because that was all I could afford but I have enough room to provide a buffer. I can't tell you what is right for you but I am happy here.
Chuck

[Scott Donley]

Will trade, 4 bdrm home in University Place, 35 minutes to Seattle on a good day:) for a 1 bdrm shack with 3 acres plus, and shop.Taxes "only" 350 a month this year !
Yes, move to the country !

[JayStPeter]

I moved from the "close in" DC suburbs to a more rural area further from the city. There's good and bad to the move, but overall I'm pretty happy. I did get a house in a neighborhood with 0.3 acre and a HOA so that my kids would have other kids to play with. I could easily have gotten 5+ acres, but it's much better for both my sanity and my kids to have friends nearby. Sure wish I could have a big 'ol shop though.
I'm fortunate to have county sewer and water (a luxury in the area). But, propane is a pain and expensive. I sure miss natural gas being piped in. We have trash service available to us at about 3x the price we used to pay, but many in the county don't even have the option, they have to haul their own.
The school system where I used to live was one of the best in the US. We really took a hit moving to the boonies. Don't expect the school system to necessarily be better, just different (and maybe that's good enough for you).
There are a number of things I miss. For example, being able to pick up take-out on the way home at any number of good places. Also, "gourmet" sections at the grocery store. Most of the grocery stores here are like the '70s.

On the other hand, my commute is good. It is slightly longer than my previous commute in miles, but about half in time (not to mention very predictable with no traffic jams). I am far less stressed out. Everyone is easier going (takes getting used to BTW as I used to associate easy going with slow), my commute is easy, etc. I also had a hellish job before and my current one is better. Bottom line is I feel better and so does my wife. I think my hair even stopped falling out ... well ... at least slowed down.
There is enough in the way of stores and such that I don't have to drive long distances for necessities (Borg for me, Target for her, groceries for all). But, there's not much extra that you don't have to drive for. I don't live way out in the country though, about an hour and a half to high-rise suburbs. As an added bonus, there are even some local sawmills.
I don't think I could take living way out in the country. I call where I am sub-suburbia. This seems like a pretty good compromise to me. Every few weeks I can drive 45 min. to the 'burbs, pick up a Burrito and go to Borders etc.

[Joe Mioux]

We live in a small town 50 miles east of ST Louis. I grew up not locking doors, leaving my keys in the car etc.

Mrs Mioux grew up in South St Louis. EVERYTHING GETS LOCKED.

In small towns people complain about 10 minute commutes with a ten mile distance. Compare that to city life.

The metropolitan area of STL is only 30 minutes away ...that is Metro east. I can be downtown watching the Cardinals play a game in about an hour....same way with a Rams football game.

I lived in University City, Clayton after college (just outside of STL proper) and I don't miss anything that my old neighbors enjoy today. It just takes a bit longer to get there now.

Joe

[Rob Russell]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Andy Fox
.... Natural gas is free to this home....


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Is that realtor-speak for "downwind from adjacent dairy farm"? :D :p :eek:

There are homes where a gas company has pipes running through the private property. As a way of getting the landowners to agree to the easement, the gas companies offered free gas. Those folks tend to not worry about what the thermostat is set at in the winter.

[Dennis Peacock]

Will trade, 4 bdrm home in University Place, 35 minutes to Seattle on a good day:) for a 1 bdrm shack with 3 acres plus, and shop.Taxes "only" 350 a month this year !
Yes, move to the country !

WOW!!!! How about $800 per YEAR for 3 acres.

[Scott Donley]

WOW!!!! How about $800 per YEAR for 3 acres.When I bought this house it was 465 a YEAR !

[Rob Russell]

Will trade, 4 bdrm home in University Place, 35 minutes to Seattle on a good day:) for a 1 bdrm shack with 3 acres plus, and shop.Taxes "only" 350 a month this year !
Yes, move to the country !

How'd you feel about that amount for half a month's taxes, and that's not for any sort of mansion?

[Mike Wilkins]

Sounds like you have answered your own questions. I have seen other neighborhoods like yours go downhill due to the factors stated. And it sounds like the tone of your inquiry that you and your family would be happier away from this mess. If you are determined, you will find a financial solution to any housing issues that come up. And the chance to build your own detached woodworking shop would be enough incentive for me.
Good luck.
And I would have had a cure for any salesmen parking in my driveway.
Size 11.

[Andy Fox]

We've actually learned to be somewhat content and "feel" good about where we live. It's just my analytical/logical side that won't let it rest. :rolleyes:

[Andy Fox]

I now live in Tokyo, right down town, and I hate it. I make the best of it (seen my Dungeon?)
I've seen that Dungeon in your posts Stu! :eek: Japan has rural areas too don't they??? :D

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I've seen that Dungeon in your posts Stu! :eek: Japan has rural areas too don't they??? :D
They sure do Andy, I've been to a lot of it, via bike, and I just love it, but the problem is the business, our liquor license is not "Mobile", so we are stuck.

My wife was born and raised here, so getting her to move to the sticks might be a little hard :rolleyes:

I'm always careful to point out to people that when I talk about "Japan", I'm talking about "Tokyo". I've been lucky to have some great times here touring on bikes, once we got caught in a very early snow storm in September, were were in this mountain pass area, and the snow just started coming down. We stopped at a gas stand to fill up with gas and hot coffee. The guy there told us we were nuts to try to get off the mountain, even if we were in 4wd cars, let alone bikes. We asked if there was a hotel or such in town, he said no, but hang on a second. A few phone calls later, and a guy came over in his truck, picked us up (4 guys, all non-Japanese) and he took us and our gear to his house, we left the bikes at the gas stand, we were fed, and then had a nice hot bath and an enjoyable evening getting to know our hosts. They were farmers/truckers, 4 generations living under the same roof (HUGE old house). We tried to pay for the beer at least, but they would not accept a dime, and apologize for it snowing :D:D:D

We got a hearty breakfast the next morning and the snow was gone, so we were on our way. I took note of their address and I sent them the best bottle of sake I have at my L shop. I still get New Years cards from them every year.

Now here in Tokyo, I have neighbours and friends, that I've known for 10+ years, and I've yet to be invited into their homes, it is a Tokyo thing.

Yep, I'd love to move to the country!!

here a pic or two for you............

43182
On the road, rural Japan

43183
Misty valley, looking back the way we came....

Cheers!

[Frank Fusco]

Stu said, "Now here in Tokyo, I have neighbours and friends, that I've known for 10+ years, and I've yet to be invited into their homes, it is a Tokyo thing."
Stu, it's not just a Tokyo thing. It's a city thing. Montreal, London, Chicago, no difference. City folks are conditioned to be mistrusting and tend to isolate themselves. My theory: apartment living never feels permanent, not a real 'home'. Attachments can be ephemeral. No attachment, no pain at parting.

[Randy Johnson]

There was a time when the worst you could expect living out in the country was an occasional whiff of livestock by-products. If you built or bought a house with the nearest farmer a mile or so away that was about as close as you would ever be to concentrations of pigs, cows, whatever.
And then there were CAFOs, large, no, make that HUGE, industrial feeding operations. They are not much fun to live close to. Even the people who put them in don't want to live too close to them, and so they might decide that it would be better to build it within two or three hundred yards of your house so they can keep it as far from theirs as possible.
In my county this has just started. The first one was voted down by the planning board because the county would have had to shell out some serious money to upgrade the road. Had it been approved (and it still could be at a latter date) my residence would have been about three hundred yards or less from 8000 hogs. The only people who stand to profit by it live almost two miles away. The second one (Maxwell foods of NC want 40 in twenty locations) will be .2 of a mile from a residence while the owner of the CAFO lives almost three miles away. Before you invest in any rural property find out what the codes are in relation to CAFOs. Don't think that a regulation that protects you from loss of property value will do any good because it certainly hasn't here. If there are no ordinances in place, you could find youself the owner of property that has dropped in value and if you are really unlucky has a dry or nonpotable well to boot.

[Art Davis]

Andy,

You have gotten a lot of good stuff by way of responses to your questions, but I perhaps have just a couple of things to add. There is "country," meaning out of the city and there is "country," meaning an entire county (say) is relatively uninhabited. My wife and I retired two years ago, moving from San Jose, California to the Rogue Valley here in Southwestern Oregon. The nearest Borg (Lowes) is twenty miles away, so if you get the wrong part, its another forty miles to return it. There is only one in the entire county. And if anyone really thinks that he or she can leave the doors unlocked (as at least one person seems to think), that person is in for a disappointment sooner or later. The meth problem is pretty bad, and I think the schools aren't anything to write home about. And I don't think this is particular to Oregon. I'm originally from the country, but was forced by my occupation to live in large urban areas for my whole professional life. My wife, on the other hand, is from Detroit. I've told folks jokingly over the years that she is from the city and I'm from the country, so we compromised----and lived in the city! Actually, we did that this time. I wanted real country, but she balked at being out in the sticks, so we picked this small town (Shady Cove) of under three thousand folks. There is a fairly decent small hardware store, a fairly decent grocery store, but little else other than rafting rental places and hunting and fishing guides. The type of place I used to visit and could never imagine myself living.

We love it! In spite of many difficulties that others have mentioned and the few I discussed above, we are finding life much nicer. Folks actually smile at you in the stores and try to be helpful. Of course, you find some grouches anyplace and everyone has a bad day once in a while, but on the whole folks seem to just be more decent here than in the city.

If you want to see a few scenes from my place on the Rogue River, go to my web site at www.engr.sjsu.edu/adavis (http://www.engr.sjsu.edu/adavis) and click on the links to the left. Maybe you will be inspired to move to Shady Cove!

Good luck.

Art

[Larry Conely]

Andy,

As many have said, it's different strokes for different folks.

I was born and raised on a farm.

My wife and I have lived and raised our children in suburban areas for the last 35 years in Michigan, LA and Australia. We now live in a nice suburb outside Detroit.

I miss the values and lifestyle of rural life. We recently purchased what will be our retirement home (in 7-8 more years) in a rural area with the additional benefit of Lake Huron frontage. It is completely isolated from the road with a 500 foot snaking driveway.

Some facets of rural life come back to me I had forgotten. Yep, well water and septic tanks. No cosmopolitan shopping or restaurants. No cell phone service, cable or high speed internet service. You will eventually know everyone and will look out for each other, it is simply community ethic.

I would have second thoughts about this if my children were not grown. Having lived in both rural and suburban enviornments my opinion is that most rural school systems are not up to good suburban levels.

Now...as soon as I post this I am heading up for the weekend. I can't wait.

Larry

[Jim Becker]

I live sorta in the country and wouldn't give it up if I really didn't have to for some reason. If you have the opportunity...go for it. You can always move back if you hate it!

[Roger Bell]

Country living is a mixed bag.....and how mixed that is really depends a lot on how remote you are from a metro area and the character of the area itself, both geographic and social.

Georraphically, living 50 miles out may have only mariginal effects on your ability to get good health care, to work or shop in the city if you wish, or must, as well as you ability to obtain other services (like fire, EMS, DSL and hardware stores) that you are used to. Living 300 miles out may have drastic effects on how you live.

The geographic character of "the country" varies a lot just as in cities (Wash DC vs. Santa Barbara.........the Nevada desert vs. the Olympic peninsula). Not all "country" may be your idea of idyllic.

Country living does not of itself guarantee a wholesome, secure or desirable lifestyle in the social arena. Consider meth labs, non-existant zoning, non-existant noise ordinances, proximity to undesirable industrial practises (feedlots or clearcut logging), to say nothing of potential neighbors. This is a pervasive attitude that one has a "right" to do whatever he wishes with an on "his property" regardless of its social consequences....that is quite different that attitudes in the cities and towns....and there is little recourse to those who are negatively affected. The further "out" you live, the worse this attitude is. Ever lived near (even a half mile near) someone whose kids ride ATV's until the gas runs out....and then fill up and do it again.....all day, all summer? Or the guy that insists on shooting a hundred rounds with centerfire rifle every evening round dinner time? Ever seen a SWAT team descend on your NeoNazi neighbor's barn to confiscate drugs and illegal weapons? My answer to these questions is yes. You get the picture.

Someone lived "next door" to Ted the Unibomber.....the country contains its share of misfits, deviants and criminals as well. I believe it is a myth that country folks are in some way morally superior to city folks. The poverty, drugs and disfunctional families that breed social ills are every bit as present in the country as in the city.....just a little less concentrated geographically.

In the city, you can sorta avoid some of this by choosing a "better" neighborhood. In the country, such segregation and stratification by income level is harder to come by. Do some "social" research on the area you wish to live in.....

This is not an argument for or against, just a another reality-based perspective the you might consider.

[John Bailey]

Andy,

The grass is greener in the country. We live 10 miles from the nearest town. It's a small town by most standards. We just spent half the summer in Greece and didn't lock our doors when we left and the keys were in the truck. Actually, I'm not even sure if we have a key to the house. If we do, I don't know where it is. I've not heard of a break-in anywhere out here. I've got neighbors who have to walk a half mile to get to their house. They can drive in the summer, but have to ski, or snowmobile in the winter. Yea, sometimes the kid down the road rides his motocross and it's too noisy, but so did I when I was his age. Besides, it's no noisier that the constant 24 hr. background noise in the city. Did I say the grass is greener in the city?

As far as services like medical, fire, law, schools, etc., we are more independent and don't need the services as much. My attitude is that I'm not going to live with the paranoia of having to be close to such things. I think folks probably got along fine 100 yrs. ago without the imposition of these services. I don't need law enforcement, because we rarely have crime, or at least what society calls crime. We don't need as much medical care, because we live healthier and know we have to take care of ourselves. If something burns up, we rebuild. We've got 20 acres with a main house, mother-law's house, horse barn, sauna down by the creek, green house and, now, a shop. They are all built by us with help from friends. Schools are what you make of them. I've always said if a student does what even the worst teacher tells them to do, they learn a lot. Most of my graduate studies at The University of Michigan were about small, rural schools. Statistically, they are much better. Did I say the grass is greener in the country?

By all means, move. It's all in the attitude. With an extraordinary attitude, you'll find an extraordinary place in the country and you'll have an extraodinary life.

John

[Frank Fusco]

This has been an amazing thread, a real insight into what motivates different people for choosing home(steads) and live styles.
All said is true, including conflicting viewpoints.
We make our choices and all choices have consquences, some good, some not.
Fortunately, in America, there is still room and opportunity to make those choices.

[tod evans]

john, that`s one of the most accurate analogies of country life i`ve heard..02 tod

[Frank Fusco]

This guy thinks the grass is greener also.
A common visitor in my yard.

[Cecil Arnold]

This has been an amazing thread, a real insight into what motivates different people for choosing home(steads) and live styles.
All said is true, including conflicting viewpoints.
We make our choices and all choices have consquences, some good, some not.
Fortunately, in America, there is still room and opportunity to make those choices.

And the other thing that makes the country great, most of the time, is that reasonable people can disagree and still respect the other person's point of view.

[Curt Fuller]

I didn't read every reply in this thread but it sounds like the general consensus is that country living is the way to go. The small town I've lived in isn't really country but it was very 'small town'. The problem we have is that so many people want to live in a small town that the small town has lost its small town appeal in recent years. We now have crowded streets that everyone drives too fast on, we even have a couple traffic signals now. We have a town council that has has been overrun by newcomers that want to impose all the rules and regs that go along with the city lifestyle. We have all sorts of new taxes for the accompanying fire department, police department, the new swimming complex, etc etc. And we have property values that are inflating at such an incredible rate that that it makes your head spin.

So all you city folks that are contemplating a move to rural, small town America remember to wipe your feet before you come and try to leave all that city stuff behind.

[Andy Fox]

A Google search came up with this relevant article:

http://chicago.consciouschoice.com/2000/cc1302/countrymove1302.html

It also lists these resources about the topic, which should be easy for me to find thanks to our convenient, large metropolitan library system :rolleyes::

Country Bound: Trade Your Business Suit Blues for Blue Jean Dreams, by Marilyn and Tom Ross

Small Town Bound, by John Clayton

Moving to Small Town America: How to Find and Fund the Home of Your Dreams, by William Seavey

Moving to a Small Town: A Guidebook for Moving from Urban to Rural America, by Wanda Urbanska and Frank Levering

Discover the Good Life in Rural America, by Bob Bone

The 100 Best Small Towns in America, by Norman Crampton

[John Bailey]

The problem we have is that so many people want to live in a small town that the small town has lost its small town appeal in recent years.

I used to live in a small town. Now, I live in the country. (Where the grass is greener.)

John

[Jerry Olexa]

I like the COUNTRY far better!! Attached shot of common occurrence in our front yard....Usually more than one:)

[Frank Fusco]

Hope I'm not boring folks. We love our spot in the semi-country, just a few miles outside of town. Yesterday, I missed an opportunity to photograph two tom turkeys chasing a momma doe and fawn away from the corn feeder. Wadda show. Now the kids are coming around. There goes the neighborhood. ;)

[Ed Breen]

Andy,My first home, in the fifties, was close to a hamlet, 5 acres and one neighbor. In the 80's we left Chicago for 1/3 the money and are 10 miles south of town on 5 acres. My daughter lives in our Tahlequah house on 50 wooded acres. Wouldn't have it otherwise.
Ed