Laguna - need input on customer service

[John Kain]

So, I'm really looking into the Laguna TSS table saw. One of the many suggestions I've noted over the past few weeks of inquiring about table saws, is to do some good research on all the products available. For this reason, and only this reason, I'm wanting only first-hand knowledge of any Laguna customers (past and present) of this company's customer service. As you already know, Laguna has a reputation for shaky service that seems to be generated by second-hand experiences.

If I'm going to drop $4000 on a saw, I really want some first-hand experience from people who own their products. Experience with the quality of the product and any service needed thereafter the purchase.

I know I've asked a couple TS questions lately, but I'd be amiss not to do some serious research on the product. It's for my peace of mind and this seems like the right forum to search for responses.

Thank you ahead of time........again........!!!

[Mike Weaver]

I don't have any, but you might also check out the Laguna Tools Message Board on their site for first hand info.

I can tell you that when I was researching band saws, I saw far more favorable comments about Mini-Max than Laguna. I have no idea if that translates to the TS as well or not.

YMMV and good luck,
-Mike

[Bill Pentz]

So, I'm really looking into the Laguna TSS table saw. One of the many suggestions I've noted over the past few weeks of inquiring about table saws, is to do some good research on all the products available. For this reason, and only this reason, I'm wanting only first-hand knowledge of any Laguna customers (past and present) of this company's customer service. As you already know, Laguna has a reputation for shaky service that seems to be generated by second-hand experiences.

If I'm going to drop $4000 on a saw, I really want some first-hand experience from people who own their products. Experience with the quality of the product and any service needed thereafter the purchase.

I know I've asked a couple TS questions lately, but I'd be amiss not to do some serious research on the product. It's for my peace of mind and this seems like the right forum to search for responses.

Thank you ahead of time........again........!!!

John,

When my cousin and I ran a professional cabinet making shop we learned with some terrible experiences to only buy tools we could get local support to maintain. When I went back to being a hobbyist, I went for quality and ended up with some pretty nice Swiss and German cabinet tools. Again with support and motor problems, I found myself relying on my locally supported tools. When I upgraded homes, I gave up a big shop for one bay in a garage and was pretty room challenged. I did some serious looking at the multifunction tools to keep the large tool capacity in a smaller format. After lots of homework, it then came down to Robland and Felder for me, and my pocketbook pushed me into the Robland.

I bought my Robland joiner-planer-mortising table and separate Robland table saw-shaper back in the early nineties from Bridge City Tools, who then sold for Laguna Tools who imported these units. These Robland units are heavy professional grade tools. Unfortunately my shipper dropped the joiner and it arrived injured. Bridge City turned me over to Laguna who immediately took excellent care of me. They dealt with the shipper without my having to get involved. They offered to cover shipping both ways for them to make repair, or walk me through what I needed to do to make repair a little faster myself. Although the tool manual was not real great, their technician was and all was running perfectly in a couple of days. I've since ordered a number of other things from them and all has worked out well with good support.

bill

[Dan Larson]

John,

As I mentioned in the other thread that you started, I own a TSS. I bought it along with an LT-18 band saw from Laguna last year. Both tools are excellent quality. Both tools were packaged well for shipping and were dropped off by the freight company in perfect condition. I honestly don't know how well set up they were as shipped since I disassembled both so that I could move them down into my basement workshop. Owner's manuals for the tools were some of the better ones I've seen for large shop tools. In my dozen or so interactions with sales & customer service, Laguna met my expectations. When dealing with the folks at Laguna, I'd suggest picking up the phone and talking with a real person rather than trying to rely on e-mail. Also don't be afraid to make a polite follow-up phone call a few days later if someone at Laguna is supposted to do something for you.

If you have any more questions about the TSS, let me know. Also, let us know which saw you do eventually decide to buy!

Dan

[Dan Lautner]

I'm looking for a similar saw and have eliminated the tss I think. My requirements are a good sliding table a riving knife and a quality rip fence. I don't have room for a large slider and am happy with my festool for sheet stuff and long straight line rips. The Felder k700 seems to be a much nicer saw for a bit more money. Second on my short list is theRojek PK250. All these euro import companies seem like dirty used car salesman to me. How do you compare the laguna to these two others saws?

Dan

[tod evans]

john, unable to offer even second hand advice on the laguna stuff...just wondering how you`ve narrowed your search to the tss? tod

[Chris Barton]

Hi John,

I own both a Robland X31 and LT16HD that I purchased about a year ago new. I have posted an evaluation on SMC and you can find it by searching for my posts. I have, like the others posting prior, had nothing but good service from Laguna. As said before, the phone is the best way to contact them, get to know some of the names in customer support, remember these folks and it can be smooth as glass. I would buy from them again without hesitation.

Now, combo machines are another situation altogether. There are 2 basic types; true "Format" machines designed to handle large sheet good pannels and what some refer to as "hardwood sliders." My X31 would fall into the latter category with a max slider depth in front of the blade of about 50". My machine has 5 functions that drive off 3 motors rated @ 3hp ea. The X31 is the oldest combo machine currently sold in the US being the first to hit the shores here from Europe. It is industrial grade throughout. It has been one of my best, if not the best, woodworking purchase I have made.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I was looking at the TSS.

At first I was looking at the PM 2000 the Unisaw and got to thinking that maybe there was more. So I expanded a little, I looked at Extrema, sawstop, and Laguna - with the idea of a conventional American saw still in my head.
Boy am I glad I got past that.

These things changed my thinking about Laguna:

1.) The laguna guy was unconcerned whether I was ever able to actually see one or not.
The MM and Felder/ Hammer people really cared a lot. the MM guy found loval people (Paul Cresti among thm) who would show me their machinery and even let me take a test drive.
The Felder people run a whole shop for exactly that purpose.

2.) the Laguna guy was entirely incapable of sdicsussin anything about the machinery if it wasn't in the sales marketing literature. When I asked the laguna giu to tell me about the bearings in the slider the size and the number of bearings he fell down and would not even try to get that information.
The MM and Felder people went way out of their way to answer my questions.

3.) After more investigation - and some questions here in the creek - The TSS slider ended up to be way too short with too little travel for me. I do cut sheet goods so the ability to do a sheet of 4x8 or baltic birch was important. On a good slider you can usually cross cut on the slider up to 8 or more feet.
Unless you have used a slider you can't imagine how delightful that experience is.
The longer sliding table is also handy for ripping solid stock and will produce way more accurate cuts as the wood always stays with the table.

4.) Customer service. The Laguna guy wasn't even capable of laying his hands on a service manual. Seriously he just couldn't or didn't give a damn asserting that they only sell them and don't have any technical capability. That meant I was going to be talking to a bunch of Checkoslviakians as the TSS is made in the Check republic and not adjusted here after transit as the tables are pinned in Checkoslovakia. The sales guy lied to me telling me the saw was made in Italy. It is not.

5.) The DVD from laguna actually worked against them. The president while selling the KNAPP Combo (the part of th DVD where they do the access cover to the TS blade) spent time trying to convince the viewer that the "Machinist knows what is needed so he puts a brass washer in the hingsd." referring to the KNAPP combo's cub cover for the table saw blade. (A) the Machinist never makes those decisions - he lied & I think I know why. The machinist cuts iron to the drawing and never deviates therefrom. The Engineer decides what goes where & why. (b) the nice close up shot they give you shows off a boat load of weld splatter. A four-year old did the welding on that hinge joint with the little brass washer. (C) Cost. Wasting the consumer dollar with excesses like that is I think inexcusable. I'd be paying a lot of $$ for that silly un-useful washer. What else would I be paying for that is pure hooey?

7.) The adjustable table you get with a real slider. IT's just a joy to have and use. I can't tell you how very useful that thing is. The TSS has a little thing that hooks over a lip. It won't support large sheet goods.


8.) And the price. Dammitall for a about the same money more I got an 8' table a Baldor motor a local service guy and a saw made in Austria.

9.) Space. the space I imagined a real slider would take up frightened me - at first. Then after seeing a couple I changed my mind. Saws like the KF 700 or the Hammer winner comfort take up almost the same space as a conventional saw. You want about 15 foot square of space (which you will only use when you are actually cutting).

Why not take your time and give the MM and Felder people a call. What is the worst that will happen? You might stick with Laguna or change? Hey there is no harm in having options.

[John Shuk]

I own a Laguna bandsaw. I've had a number of issues and I feel that I haven't been treated well at all. There was one person there who went out of his way to try and help me but the customer service person they had hired at the time was dreadful. Even if I were inclined to buy from them again I wouldn't because my wife has already threatened me. I would try real hard for local service.

[Steve Rowe]

Over the past 7 years I have purchased 3 Laguna machines (none of them a TSS). I have never had any issues with the manner in which I was treated or with the performance of the machines. The sales folks I dealt with went out of their way to answer all of my questions. If they didn't know, they went and found out and got back to me. In one instance, the shipper notified me of delivery but indicated they did not have liftgate on the order (not what I paid for). The Laguna sales rep got this resolved quickly and notified me promptly of the resolution. He even followed up to ensure everything was OK after delivery.

One of the machines was a show machine that was missing parts. This took several calls to get resolved and should have been managed better but, it did get resolved although I thought it took too long. I discovered a problem with the start switch block upon startup (actually lack of start up) and the service technician walked me through the troubleshooting (although I already knew what the problem was). Unfortunately, the exact replacement part was out of stock so they shipped me a new start switch assembly and block of a different manufacturer to get me up and running.

I have had good experiences with Laguna and would purchase from them again. I notice you hail from Georgia, why not attend the IWF in Atlanta in August and go check them out first hand. This is also an excellent opportunity to compare the competition and make the best possible choice for yourself.

Steve

[Scott Thornton]

I recently went through this exact same research. What I came up with...

The people I dealt with at Laguna reminded me of used car salesmen (that stereo type anyway). The only sales points they could make were against other companies, they couldn't "sell" their own equipment. A great majority of the comments and research about Laguna turned up a lot of negativity.

MM and Felder, excellent companies, great people to deal with, great equipment.

Rojek, the best people I dealt with, honest about their equipment, pro's and con's and didn't bad mouth other companies (that makes a difference in my book). Rojek encouraged me to try and demo all companies.

When it came down to it, I bought the Rojek tablesaw. I am extremely happy with this decision and the service I have received. Having said that, it was the equipment and the price that sold me, the combination of both. If I had a larger budget, I probably would have liked to have a Felder or MM, but they are at least 2x as expensive.


Previous to owning a EURO slider, I owned an American Contractor saw, so regardless of what I ended up with, it was going to be a vast improvement. Whatever you decide, I do highly recommend the Rojek, but I also highly recommend the EURO sliders, they are hands down the best machines made.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Hello John. I have no first hand experience so I won't throw in my 2 cents, but I do know a guy..............Seriously, I know a woodworking instructor at a local college and they purchased a Laguna TSS. After about 1 year there were some pretty good problems with the blade raising and lowering. A tech came and fixed it, but apparantly this happens every few months. I think he said that there is a bronze or brass bushing that is part of the elevating system that will always keep wearing away. Something to look into anyhow. Peter P.S. I just looked at the Laguna site and there is a MiniMax 16 bandsaw for sale there for $1395

[John Kain]

Thank you for all the replies.

Certainly, I'm in no hurry to buy a saw and will look at all possibilities within a certain spectrum and price range.

Looks like MM and Felder I need to look more into.

I was liking the price on the Laguna but really am too concerned with getting appropriate help. It almost seems hit-or-miss whether I can get good service. Some of you noted great service, others received anything but great service.

Like most of you, if I'm dropping a couple thousand on a machine, the company who gives me a quality saw and superior customer service will get my money; even if their saw costs a little more. I'll make a purchase like that just based on principle alone.

[tod evans]

Looks like MM and Felder I need to look more into.

.

john,
i think this is a very smart move! don`t discount laguna but research all of the offerings thoroughly before you cut a check...happy hunting..02 tod

[Paul Canaris]

The people I dealt with at Laguna reminded me of used car salesmen (that stereo type anyway). The only sales points they could make were against other companies, they couldn't "sell" their own equipment. A great majority of the comments and research about Laguna turned up a lot of negativity.

Funny, I had the same experience with the Felder salesman bashing Knapp...the Mini-Max people were very polite and bashed no ones equipment.

[Dan Larson]

8.) And the price. Dammitall for a about the same money more I got an 8' table a Baldor motor a local service guy and a saw made in Austria.


Cliff, this was not my experience when I priced out Felder saws last year. A similarly equipped Felder was nearly 50% more expensive than the TSS. Perhaps you were able to negotiate a great deal from Felder?

Anyway John, I think you are wise to give the offerings from Felder and MM a close look. If you are comfortable with bumping up your budget, you would do well going with either company. Rojek is worth a look, too. I own a Rojek J/P combo, and have been happy with the quality of the tool. However if $4K is your upper limit, I don't think you'd regret going with the TSS.

Dan

[Hank Knight]

John,

I don't know if my experience will add anything to what's already been posted, but here it it:

I bought a Laguna LT18 bandsaw a little over two years ago. It arrived well packaged and undamaged. When I got it in my shop and assembled, I found that the blade guides did not work with a 1/4" blade. I telephoned Laguna and the service rep knew exactly what the problem was: the saw was originally put on the market with a missized lower blade guide bracket. Laguna shipped me the correct bracket and I received it 3 or 4 days later. While I believe this is something Laguna should have caught before they shipped the saw, I have no complaints about the way they resolved the problem for me. I've had no further problems with the saw and no need to call Laguna for support.

I do, however, have a complaint about their marketing. After I first contacted them with questions about purchasing the saw, the sales rep phoned me a number of times over several months to inquire whether I had made my mind up to buy the Laguna. In addition to being annoying, he gave me a sales pitch each time that bashed the other saws I was considering. I finally got rude with him and told him not to call back. This turned me off and I put my bandsaw purchase on the back burner for a year or so. I finally decided to buy the Laguna (I really liked the saw) and I've been very happy with it.

Several weeks ago, I got a call from a Laguna sales rep asking when I was going to purchase my next big machine. It's been over two years since I had any contact with them so I thought the call was a little odd. I told him I pretty much had everything I needed and had no plans to buy anything else. He insisted that he send me Laguna's marketing brochure and a DVD about their new machinery lines. Rather than argue with him, I said O.K. and threw it in the trash when it arrived. I find Laguna's marketing and sales tactics too negative and too aggressive by far. But, so far, I have no complaints about their customer service.

[John Shuk]

John,

I don't know if my experience will add anything to what's already been posted, but here it it:

I bought a Laguna LT18 bandsaw a little over two years ago. It arrived well packaged and undamaged. When I got it in my shop and assembled, I found that the blade guides did not work with a 1/4" blade. I telephoned Laguna and the service rep knew exactly what the problem was: the saw was originally put on the market with a missized lower blade guide bracket. Laguna shipped me the correct bracket and I received it 3 or 4 days later. While I believe this is something Laguna should have caught before they shipped the saw, I have no complaints about the way they resolved the problem for me. I've had no further problems with the saw and no need to call Laguna for support.


I do, however, have a complaint about their marketing. After I first contacted them with questions about purchasing the saw, the sales rep phoned me a number of times over several months to inquire whether I had made my mind up to buy the Laguna. In addition to being annoying, he gave me a sales pitch each time that bashed the other saws I was considering. I finally got rude with him and told him not to call back. This turned me off and I put my bandsaw purchase on the back burner for a year or so. I finally decided to buy the Laguna (I really liked the saw) and I've been very happy with it.

Several weeks ago, I got a call from a Laguna sales rep asking when I was going to purchase my next big machine. It's been over two years since I had any contact with them so I thought the call was a little odd. I told him I pretty much had everything I needed and had no plans to buy anything else. He insisted that he send me Laguna's marketing brochure and a DVD about their new machinery lines. Rather than argue with him, I said O.K. and threw it in the trash when it arrived. I find Laguna's marketing and sales tactics too negative and too aggressive by far. But, so far, I have no complaints about their customer service.

In the sales world these guys are absolutly doing their jobs by getting back to you. When I sold boats I made many sales by following up with people. I never bashed other product lines and truly tried not to be pushy but it is very important to follow up on initial contact.

As far a Laguna customer service goes...I too have seen people who are really wowed by the service they receive. I think that is one reason I resent the poor service I received even more. It came as a shock. FWIW

[Jeff Geltz]

John,

Have you checked out the newly redesigned TSS with the European style fence? Its really quite something. It would be in my basement by now if not for its widened girth. Some pics below:

http://www.woodworkersweb.com/modules/gallery/albums/album244/DSCN1353.sized.jpg

http://www.woodworkersweb.com/modules/gallery/albums/album244/DSCN1364.sized.jpg

[tod evans]

John,

Have you checked out the newly redesigned TSS with the European style fence? Its really quite something. It would be in my basement by now if not for its widened girth. Some pics below:


jeff, untill you posted picturers of this saw i had no idea of how diminutive this unit really is....for johns purposes i feel that between this saw and the sawstop the sawstop may be a better deal? now a full sized slider where he`ll be able to process the majority of his stock using the slider would be a different animal alltogether. these smaller sliders are severely limited by the short slider length, in fact i wonder if the small slider isn`t more of a hinderance than a help? has anybody here used both? i`d be interested in their take....02 tod

[Chris Barton]

Hi Tod,

Using the X31 as well as a true format saw I would say that my perspective it this; I don't like to move plywood. So, I cut my sheet goods using my Festool AFT55e circular saw and MFT table. The ATF55e is at least as accurate as a format saw in my opinion, maybe even more so since you always know exactly where the cut line is. I also find it much easier to move the saw versus moving a 100 lb hunk of wood and glue. That said, i think people have a belief that the slider function is somehow going to make their work better, easier and faster when it may not do any of those things. The thing I like most about my slider is that it keeps me and my hands far away from the blade. I probably get contacted at least once a week with questions about my X31 and usually it has more to do with the sliding table function than anything else. I think the sliding table tends to be "romantisized" into the woodworking holy grail when it's just another way of moving wood through a blade.

[tod evans]

mornin` chris, i agree about sliders being romantisized, but i`m trying to view things through johns eyes with what little knowledge i posses of john and his situation. the goal being to keep his hands clear of not only the blade but of projectiles too. that`s why i thought the small slider would be much less usefull in his circumstances. keep in mind he`ll most likely be dealing with hardwoods as well as sheetgoods, as a hobbiest probably more so. i really hope john takes the time to go to iwf and look-see what`s out there on the market not only sliders but combos,band saws, cnc stuff, dust collection, tooling ect. woodworking has never been safer than it is now in regards to the technology available for power tools and each year the manufacturers improve both performance and safety so by investing a few hours lookin` and learnin` he should be able to find quality equipment that`ll help protect him, retain its value, and increase his production and accuracy...tod

[Chris Barton]

mornin` chris, i agree about sliders being romantisized, but i`m trying to view things through johns eyes with what little knowledge i posses of john and his situation. the goal being to keep his hands clear of not only the blade but of projectiles too. that`s why i thought the small slider would be much less usefull in his circumstances. keep in mind he`ll most likely be dealing with hardwoods as well as sheetgoods, as a hobbiest probably more so. i really hope john takes the time to go to iwf and look-see what`s out there on the market not only sliders but combos,band saws, cnc stuff, dust collection, tooling ect. woodworking has never been safer than it is now in regards to the technology available for power tools and each year the manufacturers improve both performance and safety so by investing a few hours lookin` and learnin` he should be able to find quality equipment that`ll help protect him, retain its value, and increase his production and accuracy...tod

I agree with you 100%. Personally, if I were considering a new table saw (and strictly a table saw, not a combo machine) I would probably buy a Sawstop or the new PM2000. I plan to go to IFW not because I am in the market for more gear (my basement "runneth over" already) but to see the new technology...

[Ian Barley]

... in fact i wonder if the small slider isn`t more of a hinderance than a help? has anybody here used both? i`d be interested in their take....02 tod

tod,I have a 4' slider on my Elektra Beckum. On the basis that most of the material I process comes in as shorts (2 & 3' lengths) it is great because it keeps the footprint small and lets me do what I want to do. On the few ocassions when I am converting full sheets the GCSS rig comes out and is used at least until the material is managable sizes. As such, in my very individual setup, the short slider is very useful.

I am starting to buy more material in longer lengths and am currently debating between upgrading my TS, which will take up more floor space overall, or purchasing the Mafell powered panel saw solution which will save the space but probably not be quite as quick.

I have to say that the sliding table on this saw looks about 3-4' long and I would share your concerns about the usefulness of this in a "general" workshop.

John - if you are cutting or thinking of cuting full sheets (8*4) then I would be seriously concerned about this saw in your circumstances.

[Dan Larson]

in fact i wonder if the small slider isn`t more of a hinderance than a help? has anybody here used both? i`d be interested in their take....02 tod

Tod, I've not used both but I do use a small slider. Like Chris, I break down large sheet goods with a Festool plunge cut saw & rail, and then process the smaller pieces on the slider. I would acknowledge that this method is less time efficient than making all of the cuts on a large slider, but I don't think it's any less safe or accurate. When working with solid stock, the short slider is fine for crosscuts and straightline ripping shorter rough cut boards. When I need to straightline longer boards, out comes the Festool setup. In general, I'm happy working with a short slider. It sure is better than no slider at all! Occasionally I wish I had a bigger slider, but common sense tells me that it would be hard for an amateur hack like me to justify the expense of a bigger slider.

Dan

[Hank Knight]

In the sales world these guys are absolutly doing their jobs by getting back to you. When I sold boats I made many sales by following up with people. I never bashed other product lines and truly tried not to be pushy but it is very important to follow up on initial contact.


John, I don't mind follow-up and I understand it's part of the job. But continued, aggressive follow-up after I've told the salesman repeatedly "Thanks, but no thanks" is an annoying pain in the a**. In my view, the telemarketing business is out of control; and telemarketers are assured of a negative and often rude response from me - especially the ones who call in the early evening and interrupt my family dinner and those with the heavy, aggressive come-on.

[Jeff Geltz]

jeff, untill you posted picturers of this saw i had no idea of how diminutive this unit really is....for johns purposes i feel that between this saw and the sawstop the sawstop may be a better deal?
There are many descriptions I'd use for the TSS, but "diminutive" isn't one of them. This saw weighs in at over a half ton compared to the Sawstop at 685 pounds loaded up with the fence and extended rails. Other features to consider on the TSS are the scoring motor and the 12" blade options, neither of which are available on the Sawstop. With respect to safety comparisons, I've heard sliders characterized as offering a safety advantage in addition to accuracy.

[tod evans]

jeff, please excuse my comment about the tss, i drive a full sized slider. i wasn`t saying it was small compared to the sawstop, just smaller than i`m used to. and i agree about sliders offering a lot of safety by keeping your body completely isolated from the blade and kickbacks. what i questioned was the usefullness of the smaller slider as compared to either an 8-10ft. unit. several folks have chimed in who are using short sliders in their shops and it appears that collectively they`re using other means to break their stock down to slider sized pieces. with john placing such a high value on his hands remaining unscathed it`ll be a hard call for him to make as to what, if any, of these type of saws fit his needs..02 tod

[John Kain]

As always, thanks for the continued replies.

I'm hoping to run down to Atlanta next month to see some machines firsthand:

Laguna TSS
Hammer B3 or K3
MM SC3W
all Felder TS
all Rojek TS

I'm also starting to think heavily about getting a combo to include a shaper. I think using the saw's slider would be a nice safety factor with the shaper.

Tod is right, I am looking for a saw to cut larger sheet goods. But it's not totally necessary. Like many of you, I don't mind using a circ saw to reduce sheet goods; if I can afford to get a saw that reduces that step, then I will.

Again, thanks for the replies so far!

[Erik Christensen]

About 6 months ago I bought a used Robland table saw. The saw was sold new about a year previous by Laguna. The original owner correctly determined the stock fence was a total piece of junk and ordered a Biesemeyer fence from Laguna for the saw they had just sold him. The fence did not fit – not even close, and after numerous attempts to get Laguna to make it right he gave up and sold the saw to me. When I bought the saw it was inoperable – it ran but how much good is a table saw without a fence? It was clear that the front & rear guide rails needed some serious metal machining that was beyond the abilities of the original owner.
The so-called owner’s manual that came with the saw was for another model entirely and did not give even basic information like how to align the blade to the table, align the sliding table, etc etc. I called Laguna trying to get a functional owner’s manual (web url & pdf would have been fine) and to ask some basic questions such as how to adjust belt tension, safe transport, etc. After being put on hold for 15 minutes each time, then forced to leave a voice mail message that was never retuned I tracked down the email address of some of the Laguna management and left increasingly insistent emails. I finally got called back by the general service manager. In that they did not sell me the saw they would only offer technical support on a fee basis, ie take a hike – get lost. Oh yeah and things like a dado insert - $175, bar stock to fit their unique miter slot 25$/ft!!!
Compare that with:
1) The call the Biesemeyer tech support – who also didn’t sell anything to me. “Oh let me email you a pdf of the owners manual and installation instructions.” Looked at the pdf – missing hardware – called back “yeah I can get you a complete hardware kit - $8”. When the fence did not fit on my finally installed support rail I got about 25 minutes of phone support and a work-around.
2) The email to Robland in Belgium asking about alignment instructions – they mailed me a manual for my saw the next day and the postage cost them over 10 euros.
Laguna has to have the worst customer service I can recall in the tool/hardware biz. They may have great products but they ain’t selling hammers or pry bars – they sell complicated motorized equipment with a bunch of moving parts – stuff that has to have competent service and support after the sale to make it useful. Laguna is the sole source in the US – you can’t get parts or service for their equipment anywhere else. If you end up needing support and get responses like I got you may find yourself with a multi-thousand pound/dollar door stop.
I’ll buy from Laguna again when the devil shows up at my front door with a down parka and invites me ice skating – until then I’ll take my hard earned dollars down the street to a firm that appears to want my business.

[Frank Galloway]

I'm looking at both of these. In regards to sales people, Laguna is being very helpful with little pressure. Hammer is offering a lot more pressure. Off hand, I would say the Hammer is more refined and offers a lot more options, but the Laguna is a much more affordable. Both are twice the price of the Chinese made saws like Powermatic, but the safety factor is driving me towards a European design like the Laguna and Hammer.

[Chuck Wintle]

The so-called owner’s manual that came with the saw was for another model entirely and did not give even basic information like how to align the blade to the table, align the sliding table, etc etc. I called Laguna trying to get a functional owner’s manual (web url & pdf would have been fine) and to ask some basic questions such as how to adjust belt tension, safe transport, etc. After being put on hold for 15 minutes each time, then forced to leave a voice mail message that was never returned I tracked down the email address of some of the Laguna management and left increasingly insistent emails. I finally got called back by the general service manager. In that they did not sell me the saw they would only offer technical support on a fee basis, ie take a hike – get lost. Oh yeah and things like a dado insert - $175, bar stock to fit their unique miter slot 25$/ft!!!
Compare that with:
1) The call the Biesemeyer tech support – who also didn’t sell anything to me. “Oh let me email you a pdf of the owners manual and installation instructions.” Looked at the pdf – missing hardware – called back “yeah I can get you a complete hardware kit - $8”. When the fence did not fit on my finally installed support rail I got about 25 minutes of phone support and a work-around.
2) The email to Robland in Belgium asking about alignment instructions – they mailed me a manual for my saw the next day and the postage cost them over 10 euros.
Laguna has to have the worst customer service I can recall in the tool/hardware biz. They may have great products but they ain’t selling hammers or pry bars – they sell complicated motorized equipment with a bunch of moving parts – stuff that has to have competent service and support after the sale to make it useful. Laguna is the sole source in the US – you can’t get parts or service for their equipment anywhere else. If you end up needing support and get responses like I got you may find yourself with a multi-thousand pound/dollar door stop.
I’ll buy from Laguna again when the devil shows up at my front door with a down parka and invites me ice skating – until then I’ll take my hard earned dollars down the street to a firm that appears to want my business.
Erik,
I cannot believe that Laguna would not even give you the time of day because you did make the purchase from them. I wonder if Laguna ever pause to read the negative comments about them? Compared to Lee Valley and others its like night and day. As an example I once called Lee Valley to get some screws for a hand plane they don't even sell. They tracked down the part and mailed it to me at no cost. :)

[Alan Trout]

I have no information on the TSS but I have owned an X-31 since 1993. It has served its purpose with distinction and has been a blessing in a limited space shop. I have always found the people at Laguna to be helpful and informative. I have had many calls over the years from them but they were never pushy and were alway curtious. They have offered me several good deals on show bandsaws over the years and when I did not bite the were very pleasent. When I wanted to upgrade my fences to the Knapp units on my X-31 they sent me the information that I ask for via e-mail and never contacted me again untill I was ready to buy from them.

I was in machine tool sales for many years. I would often get the question what does your machine do better than brand X. I would tell them what I thought. Sometimes it may have sounded like bashing but it was not. If I thought that our machine was not as good I would tell them that as well. What is funny is that I have been out of the machine tool sales for more than 10 years and still get calls from old clients wanting my perspective on machines that they are thinking about buying. The common question is "what would you do". I get the information and then tell them. But the nice part is it makes me feel good that my opinion is still valued.

I may be able to build a new shop in the next year or two and have been thinking about the TSS since I will have more space and may be able to split up some of the functions. If I were to do this I would still own a Jointer/planer combo but would consider a TSS or bigger format saw. Kind of a hard decision for a hobby shop. Most of us hobby wood workers can get by with a lot less.

Good Luck

Alan

[Jeff Weight]

Laguna is in my backyard. Less than 10 miles from my home. Many years ago when I shopping for a bandsaw I contacted them. They were very arrogant and put down every other brand. In the end I bought a Delta and saved about $500.

About 2 years ago, I stopped in to see their products. I met with the owners son. He was more arrogant than the salesman I'd delt with years before. He put me down several times in our conversation, and I left with a sour taste in my mouth.

Based on the above, I'll look elsewhere before buying from Laguna. That's not to say that they don't have an excellent product. I just don't like their arragant attitude.

[Jeff Weight]

There's a few comments over at the WoodNet forum reguarding Laguna's CS.

xxxx

" I have a Laguna. It's a nice saw but their customer service and support sucks big time. With all the other bandsaws on the market, many with similar or better features, I would stay away from Laguna until they fixed their CS department."

"No argument about the CS, but what "better features" does a minimax or agazzani offer?

I compared the minimax, agazzani and laguna before I bought, and found there's little difference between them.

If anything, Laguna's guides are one of the few real differences, and worth figuring into your decision IMO."

[Chris Barton]

Realizing that this thread is around 6 months old I can also say that nothing seems to have changed. Some folks actually own Laguna gear and seem to do just fine if they need customer service. Many others have stories of second hand accounts of poor service. Laguna bashing could be a new entry in the olympics...

[Matt Calder]

All,

I'm not sure the original poster is still in the market, but as an owner of the TSS and an Laguna 18 bandsaw I feel compelled to make a comment or two.

First, I'm no expert, this is the first bandsaw I've owned and the TSS is an upgrade from a Skil contracter saw (one of those inverted circular saw jobs). So I don't really have anything to compare to.

I never had a problem with the sales guy. He talked at length about the saw, he didn't say anything that I recall about the competition, he did go on about the difference between European and USA saws as does the sales DVD. When the TSS was delivered the lift gate operator dropped it off the truck. Can't blame Laguna for that. They replaced the saw and dealt with the delivery company, I did not have to do anything.

If anyone wants to talk about the saws themselves, ask me. I have a lot of comments, complaints and praise. I don't know how much is specific to Laguna, and how much would apply to most brands. If anyone is in the MA area and wants to test drive either saw, just ask, I'd be happy to make mine available.

Matt