Noisy Lathe.........Now smooth and Quiet!!!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Well, as some of you may remember, I built what I thought was a nice solid lathe stand for myself.

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This is the first version, bolted to the floor, and what I thought, was rather stout.

It turns out that the "I" beam is good and solid in some directions, and remarkably springy in others....:(

I then added a big box of sand below it and then some angle iron from the feet to the legs in an "A" kind of configuration.

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You can see it here, with the old C-man lathe.

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Here you can see the DVR mounted.

I have two problems, one is that the stand is not very solid from side to side, if you hit the side of the head of the lathe with the palm of your hand, the whole thing shakes, side to side, enough to be a problem on an out of balance blank.

Now, if I put a strut from the back wall to the stand, just under the head stock, I'm sure the vibrations would be gone, but this brings me to my second problem.....

I often find time to turn at night.................... OK..... more like the early hours of the morning. Well, seven floors up, my wife can often hear me working on the lathe.... :eek: Yep, I guess concrete is a good transmitter of sound.

Maybe you see my dilemma, if I bolt the lathe stand down SOLID, then I get the sound transmission....:mad:

OK, now I'm thinking of building a new stand, I guess, an "A" frame type stand would be best, I'm also fairly sure I'm going to get the extension bed for the DVR 3000, so I might as well make the stand good for that.

So, if I make a really big arsed heavy stand, a good design "A" frame type thing, and put it on some hard rubber pads under it, will I have a good stand, that will not be transmitting noise and be solid enough?

I'd like your thoughts...........

..........also, please show me your free standing stands!

Cheers!

[Andy Hoyt]

Put some chunks of thick rubber underneath all legs, and then bolt it down

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Put some chunks of thick rubber underneath all legs, and then bolt it down

Yeah, I tried that, did not do much to stop the noise.

Anything that is solid enough to give a good strong base, transmits too much sound, anthing soft enough to stop the transmision, just squishes down and does not do much.....

The problem seems to be it being solidly bolted down......

Maybe I should build a subfloor out of oak or something, that the stand it then bolted too.........?

Just thinking out loud here.....

[Henry C. Gernhardt, III]

Hmm... A nice, thick, wooden subfloor filled with some form of foam or other acoustically insulating material may do it for you.

Good luck!

[tod evans]

stu, try two more beams, one under each leg about 6-8 feet in length offset to the front, weld triangle bracing from the beams to your existing stand then mount the whole assembly on rubber bolted to the floor. install a wooden platform over the new beams for standing and you will have effectively isolated yourself and the lathe from the building while eliminating any flex in relation to you as the operator...02 tod

[Chuck Saunders]

Hi Stu,
You are correct that bolting it down is where the sound transmission comes from. There are vibration isolation moounts for mounting engines in boats but I don't think that you need that. Choice #1, make a rubber pad for the lathe stand feet to sit on. The weight of the lathe will keep it from moving. Choice #2, make a concrete pad to mount the lathe stand on and place the concrete pad on a sheet of rubber. By pad I am talking 5 foot square and 4 inches thick. You are actually making a floating slab. This will dampen the vibrations and stop noise transmission. In my theatre days, my shop was behind the stage seperated by 2 20x20 foot acoustical doors and the entire shop was on a floating slab. Couldn't hear a thing. But my preference would be choice #1 as it is a whole lot easier.
Thanks
Chuck

[Bill Grumbine]

OK, now I'm thinking of building a new stand, I guess, an "A" frame type stand would be best, I'm also fairly sure I'm going to get the extension bed for the DVR 3000, so I might as well make the stand good for that.

So, if I make a really big arsed heavy stand, a good design "A" frame type thing, and put it on some hard rubber pads under it, will I have a good stand, that will not be transmitting noise and be solid enough?

I'd like your thoughts...........

..........also, please show me your free standing stands!

Cheers!

Hi Stu

I can get some pictures of mine if you would like. My Poolewood was sold as a "benchtop" lathe, and I built my own stand for it since theirs was too short and way too expensive. It is an A frame, and the chunk of steel we used was a single 40' length, weighing 210 lbs if I recall correctly. It is 3" square tubing, and the leg splay ended up being somewhere around 34" at the base, with it sized for my height (48" at center) and the width of the base of the lathe. I welded, or more accurately I designed, the stand so that the tubing sides were parallel with the floor. That makes a great place to rest one foot and take some stress off my back.

Adding the stand weight to the lathe weight I ended up with approximately 700 lbs altogether, but I think the geometry of the stand is as much help as the weight. I know another man who built a stand for his Poolewood which weighed over 1000 lbs by itself, and he still had vibration problems due to the design and material (wood).

I have spun pieces up to 100 lbs on this thing (so far), and have started pieces in the 70 lb range as fast as 600 rpm. Every now and then I get it to walk, but it is an effort. I suspect that if you go with an A frame design, the stand will exceed as well as enhance the lathe's capacity to spin wood, and you will end up with a very nice combination.

Good luck with it!

Oh yeah, we made one leg short and put in a smaller piece of steel which slides in and out, and is held fast by large bolts threaded through nuts welded to the corner of the tubing. That allows for easy and solid leveling.

Bill

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Stu, what if you bolted wooden beams to the floor and then bolted the stand to the wood. I believe the metal to metal to concrete is it conductor of the sound. Just a thought.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Stu, try two more beams, one under each leg about 6-8 feet in length offset to the front, weld triangle bracing from the beams to your existing stand then mount the whole assembly on rubber bolted to the floor. install a wooden platform over the new beams for standing and you will have effectively isolated yourself and the lathe from the building while eliminating any flex in relation to you as the operator...02 tod

Gee Tod, I guess I'm being thick, but I don't quite get what you are saying....:confused:

Would the new beams run parallel to the ways of the lathe, or perpendicular?

The biggest problem is in my design, I did not appreciate how flexible the "I" beams are to side to side forces, which, on a lathe, are kind of important.

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Thus, I'm thinking of a whole new stand, or.....?

I have to admit, some drawers on the front of the stand would come in useful :rolleyes:

Any other DVR owners out there with a stand that works?


Chuck the second idea appeals to me, well except for all the work involved ;) :D

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Bill Pictures would be GREAT, Yes Please!!

Chris, the rubber made little diff, so I doubt the wood would, as it is actually harder than the rubber....

I've seen the Vicmark VL300 twice at demos, and they just wheel it in, level it with the bolts, and turn away, that thing is rock solid, it barely hums......

Well I'm on my way to a meeting, starts at midnight, and I get home around 4AM, yep working for yourself means you only work half days, and you can choose which half, the first 12 hours, or the last :rolleyes:

Keep the ideas, and thoughts coming guys!

Cheers!

[Frank Fusco]

Would it be impolite to say 'get a Grizzly'? ;)

[Chuck Saunders]

Stu,
You can box in your I beams with some relatively thin steel like 1/8" and it will really stiffen it up.
Chuck

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Would it be impolite to say 'get a Grizzly'? ;)

Grizzly makes good solid stands that fit the Nova DVR 3000 and ship to Japan for free........? If not, then, while not being "Impolite" it would be of little use to say so. ;)

Nothing wrong with the lathe here Frank, just the home built stand. :o

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Stu,
You can box in your I beams with some relatively thin steel like 1/8" and it will really stiffen it up.
Chuck
Chuck I did that to a point under all the mounting points, it helped, but the inherent problem is that the lathe is 10" wide, and the "I" beam is 4" wide, even with the 3/4" solid chunks of steel under each mounting point, it is not enough.

I don't mind a redesign, as I've learned something here, I just do not want to do a re-redesign.

BTW, I found this pic on Bill's site.............
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I see what you are getting at Bill, nice looking stand.

Cheers!

[Chuck Saunders]

I agree that Bills' stand looks very sturdy and "Solid as Sears" when that still meant something. If you are going to make a new one, the square tubing is much better for multi direction stiffness than the I beam.
Chuck

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Yeah, I should have asked here first..... :rolleyes:

[tod evans]

stu, the beams i was speaking of would run perpendicular to the bed only under the existing feet. off those you`d weld triangulation to the "i" beam. by boxing the current beam you`ll have a stiffer structure than square tubing of lesser size and if you where to set the entire unit including your work platform on isolation mounts your footing would be hummin` at the same frequency as the lathe yet isolated from your building.... only thoughts....tod

[Frank Fusco]

Grizzly makes good solid stands that fit the Nova DVR 3000 and ship to Japan for free........? If not, then, while not being "Impolite" it would be of little use to say so. ;)

Nothing wrong with the lathe here Frank, just the home built stand. :o

I know. But sometimes I can't resist.

[Dick Strauss]

Stu,
I'm not sure what Tod is saying but let me give you my take...

1. Box in what you've got with 1/4" plate.
2. Cut I-beam pieces to weld diagonally from the ends of the feet to the lathe bed at a 30* angle or whatever. Make sure that the additional I-beams are boxed in like the rest of the lathe. You can mount them to the bed ends or slightly inward if you can do a compound cut on the I-beams. They would be do more good slightly in but wouldn't look as good.

As far as vibration dampening goes, you need something meant to absorb 500-2000Hz vibrations. I think something like engine mount material for a car might do the trick. In your case, you might want to try the motorcycle engine mounts from your spare parts bin.

[Jeff Horton]

I bet everyone in the building assumes it was just another small tremor. ;)

FWIW. I agree that an A-frame style would be very sturdy. Not much bending and a lot or rigidity in that design. Square tubing would be my first choice depending on price. Channel would be good too, the A-frame is inherently strong design. Rubber feet to absorb the vibrations. No metal connections from from the stand to the concrete. That should cut noise vibrations.

I plywood cabinet could also work. Of course then you have to add weight to it but you may have enough tools you want to store in there to make that an option. I made one for my bowl lathe with hollow legs for sand.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Stu,
I'm not sure what Tod is saying but let me give you my take...
Well he warned me about that kind of thing a while back, so that makes two of us ;) :D



1. Box in what you've got with 1/4" plate.
2. Cut I-beam pieces to weld diagonally from the ends of the feet to the lathe bed at a 30* angle or whatever. Make sure that the additional I-beams are boxed in like the rest of the lathe. You can mount them to the bed ends or slightly inward if you can do a compound cut on the I-beams. They would be do more good slightly in but wouldn't look as good.
One of the problems I have is that I cannot cut these "I" beams with any tool I own, in fact, taking apart this stand will be on heck of a job:mad:

Makes me feel stupid for building the darn thing....:o

The steel to box in the beams would cost me more than buying the tubing.

I built a stand for my jointer....

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If I make an "A" frame type of stand out of that stuff, I should be good to go...........don't you think........

I think that trying to fix the "I" beam one up, is a waste of time, I'm going to build one like Bill's, and make a cabinet in the base, well two, one for sand, to absorb the vibrations, and the other cabinet would be for sundries, like sandpaper etc....

Oh boy, another welding project.... :rolleyes:

Just think of how many grinding wheels I'm going to use up taking apart the "I" beam stand :eek: That will be a job and a half....



As far as vibration dampening goes, you need something meant to absorb 500-2000Hz vibrations. I think something like engine mount material for a car might do the trick. In your case, you might want to try the motorcycle engine mounts from your spare parts bin.
I ride fast motorcycles, ones that have the motors balanced, and well designed, thus the motors are hard mounted and even part of the structural integrity of the frame, therefore, I do not have any rubber motor mounts in my parts bin :D

Still, a wooden sub-floor, that sits on some good rubber, and then the lathe is on some rubber on top of the floor.... with a wide stance stand, it should be good to go, plus the bonus of not standing on a hard concrete floor all the time.

Got some ideas here for sure.

Floor, what would you make it from...........?

Sitting on some acoustical foam, (I've seen it at Joyful Honda) some 2x4s lying flat, on 12" centers, covered with 3/4" plywood, making sure the legs of the lathe stand end up over some of the 2x4s....?

Boy I like to make work for myself, but at least, I will only do this one more time.... I hope... :p

[Don Baer]

Stu,
Here is my recomendation/opinion (you know what they say about opinions, every one has one). Make some triagular shaped guests 4 of them,. Weld them to your uprights on the inside and outside of the uprights. This will be the same as an "A" frame. If that takes care of the flex, vibratation problems then we can tackle the noise transmission problems next. I have some thoughts on that also since I was on submarines and we were very concerned about transmitting noise through the hull of the submarine. I figure that we need to tackle one problem at a time.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks Don, I guess it would be worth it to at least try that before I go and rip apart the whole stand....

Cheers!

[Rich Souchek]

Stu,
Structural engineer here, oilfield.
Rigid structures are mostly made up of triangles, with the members acting in tension or compression. It is much harder to get a column to shorten lenghtwise (when it is braced against buckling) than to get a beam to bend sideways.
After thinking hard on my own lathe base (in wood), I ended up with a long box, open in front with a solid middle "bulkhead". The top, bottom, both ends, interior "bulkhead" are all 3/4" ply with 2x4 or 2x6 framing throughout. Extra 2x10s on top. Lathe bolted down on top.
The solid frame takes the load, but the plywood stiffens against any movement in all directions. It acts as a diaphram plate, which is keeps the frame from moving at all in that direction.
In steel, the equivalent would be a long, rectangular steel table with solid top or completely braced in a triangular patern of braces. Diagonal braces on the ends, across the bottom (move this up 3" or so to form a shelf), and the back face. Think birdframe race car chassis or an old fashion truss bridge framing. Everything diagonally braced.
This should result in a very rigid table/base for your lathe, one that may walk across the floor, but will not deflect.
Rubber isolators should then help get rid of noise trnasmitoin to floor.
Rich S.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks for the info Rich.

When I think about it, the I beam was not the best idea, but I'm going to try some more bracing, like you and others have said, on the frame I have now, before I call it scrap iron.

Cheers!

[Greg Koch]

Mount strips/squares of worn rubber tires on your sand box and fill it with sand on the floor. Mount a new "A" frame (for stiffness) on the sandbox, with whatever support you might need, and maybe your sound will be muffled enough to not shake the store!

Just a thought.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I figure if I make the base somewhat wider at the headstock end, and brace it real well, I should get rid of the vibration issue.
The isolation of the sound is another matter all together.

OK, I snuck down to the Dungeon for a quick recon.....

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You can see the set up I have now. The braces should have gone higher, but I ran out of steel :o

Now for fun, and to see if this stand is worth saving, I cut one more angle iron brace.....

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..... and tacked it in place with the welder.

Boy what a difference, the whole thing is MUCH more rigid, and that is only one side and only tacked in place, not seriously welded.

Now on to the next idea......

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I'm sure that if I were to widen the base by about 6" on each side, and then add two more braces, something like this, I would really make a difference. I'd move the sandbox right down to the bottom of the stand, almost on the floor, then I could also go with some more bracing under it, if I need to.

As it stands now, that is the plan, I'll have to buy a bit more steel, but that is OK, and I'll get this puppy all braced up so it don't move, then on to the floor, and some isolation damping of some sort, I'll see what I can find.

Well, what do you think, am I on the right track here?

Another thought is that I want to make an outboard turning tool rest, I'm sure I could incorporate that into this bracing etc....:rolleyes: :D

[Art Mulder]

Just think of how many grinding wheels I'm going to use up taking apart the "I" beam stand :eek: That will be a job and a half....

Errr, do you have to? Couldn't you just haul it off in one piece to the scrap iron place? Just wondering, as it looks like it'd fit through your hatch.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Chris, the rubber made little diff, so I doubt the wood would, as it is actually harder than the rubber.... I'm sorry Stu I wasn't clear. As long as you have metal bolts anchored into the concrete and they contact the metal of your stand, you have a high capacity for the transfer of vibration that creates noise. It won't matter if you do use a rubber damper between the base of the stand and the concrete floor, the noise is still being conducted through the rubber by the metal anchor bolts into the concrete of the building. By bolting a wood base to the concrete and then bolting the lathe stand to the wood in a separate location you break the metal to concrete contact. (see drawing) You will still have some noise but not anything like what you have created with your current method. I hope this helps.:)

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Errr, do you have to? Couldn't you just haul it off in one piece to the scrap iron place? Just wondering, as it looks like it'd fit through your hatch.

What are you nuts? That steel cost me DEARLY thus, I'd undo the stand and keep the steel... ;) :D

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I'm sorry Stu I wasn't clear. As long as you have metal bolts anchored into the concrete and they contact the metal of your stand, you have a high capacity for the transfer of vibration that creates noise. It won't matter if you do use a rubber damper between the base of the stand and the concrete floor, the noise is still being conducted through the rubber by the metal anchor bolts into the concrete of the building. By bolting a wood base to the concrete and then bolting the lathe stand to the wood in a separate location you break the metal to concrete contact. (see drawing) You will still have some noise but not anything like what you have created with your current method. I hope this helps.:)

Chris, thanks for the pic, I did understand you, it was me who was not clear.

I tried the stand with out the bolts sitting on the concrete with 1/2" rubber between the stand and the concrete, actually there was a piece of 3/4" plywood on the concrete, then the 1/2" rubber and then the stand, and I still got a lot of noise, but I also think most of that noise was from the bad vibrations I had from the weak stand.

The more that I think of it, I will buy some accoustical foam, and put it on both sides of the 2x4s, against the concrete and between the 2x4s and the 3/4" plywood, then I might not need the rubber between the stand and the plywood floor.

........

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

stu, the beams i was speaking of would run perpendicular to the bed only under the existing feet. off those you`d weld triangulation to the "i" beam. by boxing the current beam you`ll have a stiffer structure than square tubing of lesser size and if you where to set the entire unit including your work platform on isolation mounts your footing would be hummin` at the same frequency as the lathe yet isolated from your building.... only thoughts....tod

Well this just proves that some times I just DON'T get it....at first, but with a little time......

Tod, what you are saying is that I put the new longer beam, or tubes under or beside the existing I beams, this would widen my base, and give me a bigger triangle to stiffen things up.......did I finally get it?

Cheers!

[tod evans]

Well this just proves that some times I just DON'T get it....at first, but with a little time......

Tod, what you are saying is that I put the new longer beam, or tubes under or beside the existing I beams, this would widen my base, and give me a bigger triangle to stiffen things up.......did I finally get it?

Cheers!

bingo! while you`re at it weld 1/8" steel full length down the "i" beam effectively making square tubing. with those fairly simple mods it should withstand anything you can wedge onto your lathe. then if you set the whole assembly on isolation mounts it shouldn`t resonate anymore.. sorry i can`t do sketch-up yet:confused: ....02 tod

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks Tod, I know sometimes it take me a little time, but I usually get it....

To the Dungeon!! :D

[Bill Grumbine]

Stu, here are those pics I promised. I would have had them sooner, but picnic preparation and a GIANT locust tree with burls on it got in the way! :D

<img src = "http://www.wonderfulwood.com/forumpictures/poolewoodstand01.jpg">

Here is an "orthographic" view of the stand. The outboard rest is in the way of some of the basics, but I think you can figure it out. As you can see it is an A frame, 3" square tubular steel, with the braces set for comfortable foot rests. The outboard rest is a real behemoth that was welded on as an aftermarket accessory. It was made by Poolwood and designed to bolt onto their own stand, but it did not even come close to lining up with mine, so we welded it on. The legs are splayed so that the distance between the feet is about 34". I have not had a problem with the leg being in my way while turning. This stand is seven years old now, and has seen some very hard use, including a trip to MD to film the first DVD.

<img src = "http://www.wonderfulwood.com/forumpictures/poolewoodstand02.jpg">

Here is a closeup of the leveling leg. A smaller piece of tubular steel slides into the 3" stuff, and two nuts welded onto the corner allow the bolts to be tightened up against the corner of the inside piece, making for a very snug and secure friction fit. You could probably get away with smaller bolts, but we used the biggest ones my friend had on hand. They exert a lot of force, and I have not had to fiddle with them at all except when the lathe changes locations.

Good luck with it, and if you have more questions for me, let me know. In the meantime it is picnic time!

Bill

[Ed Thomas]

Hi Stu,

You were asking to see some freestanding stands. Ok, here's my first Sawmill Creek post.

I'm in the middle of swapping out a knock-off 12-36 lathe for a GI 25-650. Here's how I connected the I-beams for the sub-bed (the bed extension is also being reworked):

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bocutter/CopelandShop/Lathe/SubbaseExtension.jpg

Here's most of it on the bench. Bench slabs are 2" thick and there is a vertical slab under the top. Bench weighs 300lb and doesn't tranmit any vibration.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bocutter/CopelandShop/Lathe/NewLathe/Bed_on_Sub.jpg

I happened to have a couple hundred pounds of lead left over from my letterpress printing days so ... melted and cast it. I used a spare bit of I-beam for a mold. They will be bolted to the inside of the sub-bed. Can you get your hands on some lead in Tokyo? DON'T melt it down in your dungeon. That's an outside job.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bocutter/CopelandShop/Lathe/TwelveLittlePiggies.jpg

HTH, Ed in Leaside

[tod evans]

welcome ed! i`ll bet that don`t move! tod

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Bill I very much appreciate the time you took to take the pics, THANKS!!

I was down in the Dungeon tonight finishing up some beer racks I made for the liquor shop.......

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(keeping the PP off my back)
They are all welded up of square tubing steel and then have plywood shelves.

Well I have a rule, if I do any welding in the Dungeon, I have to stay there for a good hour after I finish, just to make sure there are no fires. I give a really good cleaning when I do weld, so between the two I've not had any trouble, touch wood. ;) :D

Well the hour passed with me looking at ways to make the stand I have better, and now looking at your pictures, plus the brain storming I did tonight, I think, I have a plan :D (Please pick it apart guys if you see something amiss).

OK, I'll "Box In" the "I" beam on under the ways of the lathe......

I can buy the same rectangular tubing I used for the jointer cart, and use this to box in the I beam.

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This is a short piece of what I have left over from the jointer cart. The I beam is 10 cm tall, and this stuff is too. I'll grind any of the welds on the I beam flat, and then weld up a piece of this tubing to each side of the I beam under the ways. This will box it in and give me more width to resist twisting.
I'll also add a piece on the end of the stand, this will give me an over all length of 160 cm, and to accommodate another bed extension, I need a total of 153 cm, so that is good.

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Just another view of the tubing.

I'll then put another piece of this tubing along the outside of each of the "Feet", but much longer. The feet are now only 44 cm wide (17 1/4") which if free standing is too narrow. The feet will become 100 cm wide or about 40" wide.

I'll then make the sides of the "A" frame out of the same 3" square tubing as you are using Bill.

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A mock up of sorts, with the thin tube taking the place of the sides of the "A" frame, and the 2x4s taking the place of the longer feet.

The most important thing I pick up is that I should raise the stand off the ground so only the four feet are touching, like you have done Bill, this would cut down a TON of the sound transmission, I would think (hope?).

Here is a really crude drawing......
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(told you it was crude, Tod is not the only one who has not mastered Sketch Up :o ).

Next, I'll move the sandbox lower, this will give me room for some kind of a cabinet, and make the center of gravity lower, which should be good.

The last line of attack for solving the problem is to make up a sub floor. I can buy acoustic foam, it is designed to go between layers of flooring to knock out sound. My idea is to use 2x4s as sleepers, with the foam between the concrete and the 2x4, and then again between the 2x4 and the flooring (3/4" plywood I guess) I'll make sure the feet or legs touch down on top of one of these sleepers.

Well, what do you think guys? I really want this to be the last time I do this, know what I mean :rolleyes: :D

Cheers!

PS Bill, have a great BBQ!!!

[Bart Leetch]

[Chuck Saunders]I agree that Bills' stand looks very sturdy and "Solid as Sears"

Heck Bill's lathe stand will be there when Sears is long gone.

[Dave Mcintire]

Why not leave the lathe alone and get rid of the wife and solve a lot of problems at once.

[Art Mulder]

Why not leave the lathe alone and get rid of the wife and solve a lot of problems at once.

Dave, Dave, Dave... you don't know Stu very well, do you? His wife *encourages* his hobby!

And if you read his original post, it is the people on the 1st through 6th floor that Stu is worried about. Getting rid of them might be a bit messy. Not to mention losing out on all that rental income. (of course, then Stu would have lots of room for a bigger shop...):cool:

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Dave, Dave, Dave... you don't know Stu very well, do you? His wife *encourages* his hobby!

And if you read his original post, it is the people on the 1st through 6th floor that Stu is worried about. Getting rid of them might be a bit messy. Not to mention losing out on all that rental income. (of course, then Stu would have lots of room for a bigger shop...):cool:

Art you are correct, the problem is the $10,000 a month them pesky tennants pay toward the bank loan :rolleyes:

I went to Joyful Honda and got the steel, plywood, sound deadening stuff, as well as all the stuff I need to make a hollowing rig..... about $150 or so, not bad, add to that, I picked up some stuff my lovely wife wanted, and hey, I'm doing good.

Now I got to clear the decks so I can get this done and get back to turning :D

Cheers!

[Henry C. Gernhardt, III]

I went to Joyful Honda[...]

Is the name of the Honda business pretty standard for business naming conventions in Japan, Stu? I find it interesting that it's named not after its founder, but a virtue... :)

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Is the name of the Honda business pretty standard for business naming conventions in Japan, Stu? I find it interesting that it's named not after its founder, but a virtue... :)

Don't ask why they called it that, they use English is some REALLY wierd ways over here.....:rolleyes:

If you have not seen my tour of Joyful Honda (http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/joyful.htm)..... <- Link!

Quite the place :D

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Well I got started.

First a couple of things. This I beam stand may not be so rigid, but boy is it HEAVY! :eek: I'm no wimp, I lift heavy stuff all day long for a living (no light beer here!) but man alive, it just about killed me to move this sucker, so I enlisted the help of my friend the chain hoist, lever, and Mr. Fulcrum, much easier :D

I did get it on the bench for some griding and then some welding......

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When I look at it now, it is woefully insufficient, I was relying on the I beam and bolting it to the floor, both of which were not good ideas.

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After much grinding, and killing one of my cheap 4" angle grinders, here stands my stand waiting for an upgrade, I can't stand the suspense ;) :p

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This is a real mock-up, I'm a great believer in doing this, as I think it gives you more to wrap your brain around than just an idea on paper........

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It is amazing what someone skilled can do with photoshop...... then there is what I can do :rolleyes: :D
There will be a 10cm x 5 cm tube on both sides of the I beam that goes under the ways of the lathe, and a piece on each end making the whole I beam boxed in, then on the feet, they will be extended to 1 metre, and an "A" frame type of shape will be made by bringing a strut from the side of the top, over end of the leg and past the bottom of the leg by an inch or two, giving me 4 contact points on the floor.
A lot more griding to do, so I'm going to see if I can head out tonight and buy myself a full sized grinder, I killed one of my little angle grinders in about an hour, it was a cheapy, but still, not worth doing that to the other two I have, plus the 4" angle grinders are slow.

Well, that is the basic Idea, but now that I'm looking at it, and after looking at some other well made stands (VL300 for example) I'm thinking of making the tailstock end base a little shorter. This will let me kick that end of the lathe into the corner, giving me more working area around the headstock...(see the next post)...

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

OK, if I make the tail stock end somewhat smaller at the foot, then I can put that smaller end into the corner, with the lathe on an angle, this will give me a lot more room around the headstock, good for outboard turning too....


Feet the same length
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As you can see this will take up a lot more space, but if I go with the shorter leg on the tail stock end............

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Shorter foot on the tailstock end.

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VL300 lathe on a stand with a narrower tailstock foot.

I'm not going to go that narrow, but not the full 1 metre that I'm doing on the headstock end (40"?)

What say you all? :D

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Hi Stu,

You were asking to see some freestanding stands. Ok, here's my first Sawmill Creek post.

I'm in the middle of swapping out a knock-off 12-36 lathe for a GI 25-650. Here's how I connected the I-beams for the sub-bed (the bed extension is also being reworked):

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bocutter/CopelandShop/Lathe/SubbaseExtension.jpg

Here's most of it on the bench. Bench slabs are 2" thick and there is a vertical slab under the top. Bench weighs 300lb and doesn't tranmit any vibration.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bocutter/CopelandShop/Lathe/NewLathe/Bed_on_Sub.jpg

I happened to have a couple hundred pounds of lead left over from my letterpress printing days so ... melted and cast it. I used a spare bit of I-beam for a mold. They will be bolted to the inside of the sub-bed. Can you get your hands on some lead in Tokyo? DON'T melt it down in your dungeon. That's an outside job.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bocutter/CopelandShop/Lathe/TwelveLittlePiggies.jpg

HTH, Ed in Leaside

Ed, I missed you post, sorry about that!

That is one heck of a lathe bed you have going on there, wow!

Nice use of the I beams.

I guess a lot of my noise transfer comes from bolting it down, well those days are over!

I don't think I could get lead easily here, but the 80kg of sand I have don't hurt.

Cheers!

[Tom Sherman]

Stu it looks like you are on your way to better support. I'm sure you have already thought of it but if you thought it was heavy going on the table wait till it's time to get it off:D

[Barry Stratton]

Now if you'd have just listened to me in the first place and shipped the DVR via Anchorage, I coulda troubleshot this problem and you'd have had time to rebuild the stand before it arrived! Geez.:D

[Art Mulder]

Hey Stu,

Weren't you planning on adding some triangular gussets to give more reinforcement against Left-to-Right movement? I thought that was mentioned a while ago. Like in the attached... (would have been easier to tweak the photo, but you have all these angled shots, and no direct front shots. ;))

...art
(heck, i don't even have a lathe, and I don't do metal work, but it is fun to read this and try to learn what I can...)

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Barry, keep trying my friend, keep trying ;) :D

Art, hey, who gave you a key to the Dungeon :D

Yes that is in the plan as well, but I do not think there is any movement from left to right.....

If you noticed in that pic, I moved the shelf that the sand box sits on down low, this way I hope to be able to put a cabinet with some drawers under the bed , and above the sand box.

As for the feet, the legs, whatever you want to call them, I like what Bill did, but do I really need those on all 4 corners_ I think on just one would do it, right?

See my gloat over at the general forum :D (got a deal on an angle grinder).

Cheers!

[Julio Navarro]

What if you built an isolated bed and sound proof your bedroom so your wife doesnt feel or hear the lathe?:D:p

Just trying to think out of the box, Stu:D:D:p;)

Cheers!

[Ed Thomas]

I'm not going to go that narrow, but not the full 1 metre that I'm doing on the headstock end (40"?)

What say you all? :D

I think that a 1 metre footprint at the head is just a bit bigger than huge. :D

The footprint on mine is half of that (by 10'), but then mine weighs about 1100 lb plus whatever's thrown on the shelves. Sound/vibration absorbing materials like wood & lead, and weight are your friends. Long pieces of prone-to-vibration steel are your enemy in this case.

Have you considered shifting your ballast weight towards the backside? This would give you some more working space on the front side, and maybe a place to hang a few tools on the front of the sand box.

43274

Off to the BD party, back in the morning.
Ed

[Charlie Plesums]

Lots of good suggestions on the structure of the stands, but as a DVR owner, let me suggest that you make the length sufficient for TWO extra bed extensions. I have turned some spindles over 5 feet, for outdoor use where a joint would be a major weakness. I jury rigged the stand, and temporarily added the extensions (bolts instead of dowels to connect...worked fine), and now have the two extra extensions in the storeroom for the next long project. Beware of the steel dowels... they are not removable, so adding the extensions can become a one way trip.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I think that a 1 metre footprint at the head is just a bit bigger than huge. :D

The footprint on mine is half of that (by 10'), but then mine weighs about 1100 lb plus whatever's thrown on the shelves. Sound/vibration absorbing materials like wood & lead, and weight are your friends. Long pieces of prone-to-vibration steel are your enemy in this case.

Have you considered shifting your ballast weight towards the backside? This would give you some more working space on the front side, and maybe a place to hang a few tools on the front of the sand box.

43274

Off to the BD party, back in the morning.
Ed

Thanks for the info Ed, I really appreciate it.

Well, maybe 1 metre is a little large, but Like I said, I want to do this the one time (the upgrade that is...:o )

Charlie thanks for the suggestion, but really, I do not have the space for TWO bed extensions!

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Well, I got about 10 good hours in the Dungeon..........

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I took off everything I did not want on the stand, or had to be relocated, this was a LOT of work, but I guess it means my welds were good :rolleyes:
So that is the stand down to just the basics.

43333
I decided to scale it back a bit, instead of the base being 112 cm (44") wide, I made it closer to 92 cm (36"). It is still plenty wide :D
I'm test fitting the cuts on the steel here.

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Here I've got some tack welds done to hold everything in place, I checked for fit, and used a large persueader and clamps to make things fit a bit better (and an angle grinder). With a good fit, I could start welding!!

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Here is the headstock end almost al welded up, I need to make us and fit some end caps for the bed tubes, and weld those, then I need to tip this puppy on it's side to weld up the bottoms of the legs.

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Here you can see the whole stand at this point, now I have to do the tailstock end..................

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

............on to the tailstock end....

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Two shots, I ended up making the tailstock end just about the same width it started as, but with much better bracing.

I was test fitting when I noticed the time :eek:

Time to clean up, and get to bed.....after a shower, I'm stinky and dusty :rolleyes: :D

Good day in the shop, I figure I have another 12 hours left on this stand and the sound isolation floor I have to build, heck I might even pain the stand :eek:

Thanks for looking.... :)

[Charlie Plesums]

When you get that done, bring your welder and family to Texas for a visit... I could use a stand like that. Forget the liquor store... you have a great career opportunity as a welder or woodworker.

Since long spindles don't shake like big bowls, I can see an optional extension to your stand for that second bed extension -- when I used it on mine I just jury rigged a couple of 5/4 x 6 pieces of ipe as an extension to the lathe table, using a lot of clamps, and the 5 foot bed worked fine!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks Charlie, that is quite a compliment :)

I think I could make an extension for a long item out of wood, like Travis did with his Mini for the HF rig.


I got a few more hours in the Dungeon today, (boy is that place a mess now!) and I just about got it done.....

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Really lousy cell phone pic, but I'm almost done.

I have to weld on the new plates for where the lathe mounts, and the adjustable feet. The feet, like on Bill G's stand, will adjust a total of 6", not to mention the ability to level the stand. Right now, the spindle height will be at 42", but I can move that up to 48" if I like.

I guess I should paint it........ :rolleyes:

Well not much left to do, but I'll get it done!

Cheers!

[Dick Strauss]

Stu,
Your stand is looking good.

I had an idea about your sound deadening issue. You could use sorbothane pads. They absorb about 95% of the energy and won't deform much under high loads. The material is used for many things including microscope/instrument isolation and shoe inserts. It does very well absorbing low frequencies in the 10-50Hz region (600-3000 rpms). It is available in various thicknesses, stiffnesses, and sizes. We used to use sorbothane balls for lasers in the lab.

Try this site for more info...
http://www.sorbothane.com/

One other idea that came to mind was a rigid foam insulation sandwich (rigid foam/plywood/foam/plywood). It could be assembled with some sort of construction adhesive.

Good luck,
Dick

[Corey Hallagan]

Looking good Stu! I hope the new design takes care of the problem for you!

Corey

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

OK, some more progress.....well it is nearly done really.... :rolleyes:

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Here it is, not bolted down, but in place.

With the headstock turned out 90 degrees, I have 54 cm before I hit the stand, that is about 21" swing, I very much doubt I'll ever use that! :eek:

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I drilled all that holes and tapped them, and bolted the lathe to the stand, I then chucked up this bowl blank, which came out of the DNA bath a few weeks ago, and is out of round for sure. I ran the lathe up to stupid speeds, (3000 rpm) and yes I got some vibes, but really not much, though the chuck on the spindle was wanting to work loose, (I'll have to find the locking screw thing for it).

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An end view

The stand, by itself, weighs a fair bit, but with the addition of the 80 Kg of sand in the sand box, and the 100Kg of framing nails I have in boxes on top of that, it is not going anywhere.

If you look under the feet, I put a small mock up version of the floor I want to make, two pieces of 15 mm plywood, with a layer of the thick acoustic foam in between them, and a layer of the hard, like tar, thin acoustic stuff between the floor and the plywood, like the diagram below....
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....I sure hope this works.......... man it has to!! :D


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You can see I left room for one more extension....

Well, next will be the outboard tool rest, then the HF rig, then, just maybe I'll paint it :rolleyes: :D

Cheers!

[Don Baer]

Good job Stu. Now hopefully you not only got rid of the noise but also cured you vibration problem.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks Don, I'll let you know, as I'm headed to the Dungeon soon!

Cheers!

[Tom Sherman]

Top notch job Stu it's got to better than before. Sure you've chosen the right vocation?

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Top notch job Stu it's got to better than before. Sure you've chosen the right vocation?
Tom, the vocation chose me :D (marrying into the family business....)

Well, I got to say, the lathe stand is fixed, boy oh boy is it fixed :D

I think I'll just call it the "Queen Mary" actually that might have more movement..... :eek:

Mere words fail me...............................so here are some pics ;)

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I put the sandbox back on the stand, I had 4 20 kg bags of sand in there, but I squeezed a fifth in, so that is 100 kg of sand, or around 220 lbs. The boxes are full of framing nails, maybe another 150 lbs? and lastly there is a 25 Kg bad of cement (55 lbs). I guess there is between 400 and 500 pounds of ballast on the stand :D

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Did I over do it.............?

You betcha, ain't it great :D

Boy is it rock solid

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Oh yeah, I made up a new tool rest as well!

I cannot believe how nice it cuts now, unreal, smooth just don't have enough "Os" in it to describe it, silk is rough in comparison :rolleyes: ;) :p :D

Yep, one happy camper here!

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Oh yeah, I wanted to add, that I did most of the finish turning on this bowl blank, and it was ROUGH, I did stuff that before I'd get a "Beep" on the interphone with my lovely wife saying..............

"What are you doing...? I can hear it up here on the 7th floor!"

......but tonight, no "Beeps", no calls, nothing, the stand is isolated from the building!! :D

Oh yeah!

[Don Baer]

Super Stu, how about any noise transmision up stairs ?

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Super Stu, how about any noise transmision up stairs ?

My lovely wife slept through the whole thing :D

[Mark Rios]

WGT STU!!!!! You just saved all of Japan by not possibly waking up Godzilla. You ARE the man. (even if you're canadian).

[tod evans]

Did I over do it.............?

You betcha, ain't it great :D

Boy is it rock solid


Yep, one happy camper here!

Cheers!

overkill, i love it! nice job stu!

[George Conklin]

WGT STU!!!!! You just saved all of Japan by not possibly waking up Godzilla. You ARE the man. (even if you're canadian).

LMAO:D
That was good!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Well I got to tell you guys, the new stand works great!

I rough turned these bowls andI have a few more to go, then, I'll be looking for some more wood! :D

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Cheers!

[John Miliunas]

Guess there will be no more rock 'n roll for you, huh? :D I swear, Stu, you're as talented with a welder in your hands as your are with wood! Great job! :) :cool:

[Bernie Weishapl]

Looks like ya got it Stu. That is one hefty stand. Glad it all worked out for you.

[Corey Hallagan]

Looking good Stu.... no holding back now!

corey

[Tom Sherman]

Ok Stu put er in high gear turn on stealth mode and let er eat.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Stu.....I like the design of your "vibration pads". We use similar pads of a very dense rubber to isolate the magnets of MR scanners from the vitration in buildings. In buildings things like A/C compressor motors, fans etc. will transmit vibrations through the floors and walls of a building. Those vibrations can effect the image quality of an MR scanner. We isolate them by using a very dense rubber pad. Well done!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Guess there will be no more rock 'n roll for you, huh? :D I swear, Stu, you're as talented with a welder in your hands as your are with wood! Great job! :) :cool:

No need to swear John, you may have to edit yourself :rolleyes: :D

Next up from the welder will be a Captured Hollowing Rig, and a steady rest like some of you have.

Cheers!