Correct use of table saw?

[Tom Andersen]

Hi guys, here's a question on the correct use of a table saw. I have made a push-shoe as shown in the first image. It is of plywood and has sand-paper underneath. It works well when I saw a wide piece of wood as shown in the second picture. I place the push shoe between the fence and the blade to make sure that the piece between the fence and the blade does not get lifted away from the table.

My question is then related to the situation where I want to saw a narrow piece from a board as shown in the third picture. Then there is not enough space for the push-shoe, so if I put it to the left of the blade, leaving the thin piece trapped between the blade and the fence, it doesn't feel good from a safety point of view.

So the question is: Which is the best way to saw a narrow piece on a table saw?

Thanks
Tom

[Julio Navarro]

Why not just run the board as in pic number 2 and simply adjust the fence?

You can set a stop on the thin side of the blade and adjust your fence to that stop. but you will only be able to use your board till its to thin to run across the blade with your new push stick.

[John Branam]

I have a long (12") thin push stick for those type of cuts, it tapers from the handle down to the end that is notched. The nothed end is about 1/8th" thick. I made it from scraps I had after doing some tapered legs for a table.

[Tom Andersen]

Why not just run the board as in pic number 2 and simply adjust the fence?

often only one side of the original board is straight, or sometimes you need to make width of the narrow piece precise?

[Doug Whitson]

I struggled with the same problem untill I bought a grrriper, if you don't want to spend the bucks, You can make a straddle type push block that will fit over the fence. 1/4" material should work fine. I don't think I would cut anything under a quarter inch though. Good luck and keep those fingers safe.
Later,
Doug in AZ.

[Mark Pruitt]

Julio's response is what I understand to be "safe practice" on a TS, the reason being that the risk for binding/kickback increases when the fence is positioned for ripping a thin strip from a wider board.
Mark

[Steve Clardy]

I use a thinner push stick. My thin one is 1/8" or less

[Greg Koch]

I made several push sticks, of different thicknesses, for use with narrow stock. However, I agree with Julio, and would cut the thin strips as in pic#2. I have cut strips just over 1/64th that way.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/kgregc/Woodworking/sawtools.jpg

[glenn bradley]

Either as Julio described or use a block that will ride over the blade that is thick enough to be cut into but not allow the blade to come through. Did that make sense?

[Mike Kelly]

I have used the Gripper down to 1/8". The pad doesn't last very long with a 1/8" cut down the length of the narrow hold down pad, but it will probably cut all of the strips you may need in an afternoon.

[Ian Barley]

Thin, long (12"+) push stick. If the cut component is so narrow that you can't make the cut with the guard in place then you can put a low "outrider" onto the fence so that the cut and the pushstick have room to get past the guard. I use a length of aluminium angle for the purpose when necessary.

[Mike Kelly]

Think about what that "thin narrow" push stick can do for your hand if it gets caught up in a kickback. You won't have time to think about getting out of the way, it will be through your hand very quickly. I think it may be waiting for a place to happen. A "thin narrow" push stick with a big handle may be a better option. I'll still use my Gripper.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Think about what that "thin narrow" push stick can do for your hand if it gets caught up in a kickback. You won't have time to think about getting out of the way, it will be through your hand very quickly. I think it may be waiting for a place to happen. A "thin narrow" push stick with a big handle may be a better option. I'll still use my Gripper. I'm with Mike on this one...I use my Grrripper. I cut a lot of thin strips, and have seen a multitude of ways they can be shot back at you, even if you think you're doing everything right. Not only do push sticks run the risk of losing the cut strip and letting it be shot back at you, the cut quality can suffer because the push stick allows the strip to wobble slightly. With the Grrripper, I'm in complete control of the cut -- all the way through -- and I get glue-ready saw cuts.

Although I've cut as thin as 1/8" with the Grrripper in the past, as Mike pointed out, it chews up the bottom of the Grrripper somewhat. Now I tend to limit cuts between the blade and the fence to 1/4" thick. Anything narrower (and I do a lot of narrower strips, down to 1/16" thick) and I have the "keeper" piece come off the "waste" (left-hand) side of the blade. To do it this way, I have to move my fence for each cut, but with the Incra setup it's no problem to move the fence exactly. Regarding Tom's question about only one side of the board being straight...I simply cut off the ragged side and I'm good to go.

Without an Incra (or other highly-repeatable) fence system, you could still do the same thing by clamping a stop block on the "waste" side of the blade. For an 1/8" strip, the block would be 1/8" away from the left-hand side of the blade. (Of course, the stop block should be before the blade...not alongside it.) Then it's simply a matter of holding one edge of the piece to be cut against the stop block, then moving the fence to the other edge of the piece and locking it down. Cut, lather, rinse, repeat.

HTH -

- Vaughn

[Norman Hitt]

If it's real thin, I have used a 5" to 6" wide piece of MDF, (or a combination that makes it the same thickness as the material the strip is being cut from), as a sled with a tab sticking out the side of the back end toward the sawblade that does the "pushing". I usually screw a piece of wood on top of the MDF that will overhang the edge of the MDF and across the top of the thin strip to keep it from being raised up as it passes the back of the sawblade, and I fasten a hold down flat on the table so it pushes the material against the sled, and the sled against the fence, located slightly before the material gets to the cutting edge of the sawblade. (Hope this makes sense)

[Art Davis]

I have a Gripper, but am a bit uneasy using it as you have to extend your arm over the blade.

What I have done to solve the originally posed problem is to construct a saddle pusher for my fence with a very thin side---having a 1/8 inch heel that hooks over the work piece. I then shove the pusher with my hand remaining over the fence, and the narrow side of the saddle passes between the blade guard and the fence.

Art

[Steve Schoene]

I use a push shoe similar to that shown in the original posting, although without any of the fancy finishes, just enough rounding of the edge to avoid pain. Then when I have that situation I just cut cut through the push stick. If need be I then just trim off the bottom to provide a fresh bearing surface, or whip up a new shoe. There's almost always suitable scrap around to make one or two shoes in a few minutes.

[Ben Grunow]

Just push it through with a 2 ft long piece of scrap and stop before the blade. Then shut the saw off and wait for the blade to stop or carefully pull your push scrap back for the next cut.

[Frank Fusco]

Greg, I like your wood modifications to the table saw. I'm not ingenius enough to even think of doing stuff like that. I have a planer but never thought about making my own zero clearance insert. And I need one. I have plenty of osage orange wood that wood be perfect for that task.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I dunno, I'd just put it on the saw and shove it through the blade.

[Luciano Burtini]

Hi - Just wanted to jump in with my $0.02. Depending on what you mean by 'thin', I would stay away from pinching a thin strip between the fence and blade, especially if they are short. I have seen 'thin strips' penetrate the wall behind the saw. You don't want to be in the line of fire so to speak. If the strips are short and thin, try a jig like this:

http://members.shaw.ca/apljakventures/thinjig.jpghttp://members.shaw.ca/apljakventures/thinjig.JPG
Alternatively, you can rip off of the LEFT side of the board, but you will have to reposition the fence for each cut. Use a stop block on the left side of the saw to position the stock to the correct thickness and move the fence towards the right edge of the stock before cutting.

In any case, stand off to the side and do not stop pushing the stock until it has cleared the blade.

Hope this helps...

http://members.shaw.ca/apljakventures/thinjig.jpghttp://members.shaw.ca/apljakventures/thinjig.jpg%22

[Alan Turner]

I use a push shoe similar to that shown in the original posting, although without any of the fancy finishes, just enough rounding of the edge to avoid pain. Then when I have that situation I just cut cut through the push stick. If need be I then just trim off the bottom to provide a fresh bearing surface, or whip up a new shoe. There's almost always suitable scrap around to make one or two shoes in a few minutes.

Like Steve, I use a plywood pusher, and routinely cut throug it as I rip narrow stock. When it is used up, make another from scrap. It needs to long enough to provide a good holddown on the front of the stock being ripped, and tall enough so that your hand is well above the blade. About 4" or so if good for me.

[Randy Denby]

Tom, am I reading your post correctly? Did you state that you put the push block on the left side of the blade and left the wood trapped between the fence and blade uncontrolled? If so, quit it:) Your right , it aint safe at all, and I'm surprised you havent had a kickback.

[Steve Clardy]

Think about what that "thin narrow" push stick can do for your hand if it gets caught up in a kickback. You won't have time to think about getting out of the way, it will be through your hand very quickly. I think it may be waiting for a place to happen. A "thin narrow" push stick with a big handle may be a better option. I'll still use my Gripper.


Mine start as 3/4 thick sticks. They get thinned on the business end as needed.
I don't use a totally thin push stick

[Mark Singer]

I have made wood architectural models for a years....this forces you to cut tiny pieces and improvise....I usually take the small ones to the bandsaw. I must agree there are several safe methods posted here for tablesaw use...

[tod evans]

tom, the easiest/safest way i`ve found to cut thin stock is to use a longer board, feed most of it through the blade then flip it over and finish the cut all the while never getting your hands near the blade. it`s not worth the potential for disaster to try and salvage short boards like that...02 tod

[Michael Keating]

Why not just use a bandsaw and a jointer to clean up the edge. If you do not feel safe making a cut, you should not do it under any circumstance. There is always a way to make it another way.
If you do not have a bandsaw, just use the jointer.

Mike

[Michael Adelong]

I'm with Mark & Michael. The bandsaw is a much safer tool for this operation.

If I need a strip is 1/8" thick or greater, I use my Delta lunchbox planer to clean up the bs marks. If I need thinner than that (say 1/16"), I start by making a 1/8" strip. Then, I put a 1/16" deep dado in a scrap of plywood or MDF. Lay the 1/8" strip in the dado, and use a plane to thin the strip even with the top surface of the scrap.

Michael

[Larry Conely]

I use a variety of smaller push sticks for thin rips. My favorite is not actually a stick, but sharpened rods. I keep two of these on my fence all the time. They provide very positive control and do not mar the wood as much as you might think, although I do watch where I place it. The top one is drill rod mounted in a handle, the center one is a BBQ spit ground down and the bottom one...I can't remember. The wooden push stick was one of a lot I batch made. It is very comfortable to use and makes woodworking more pleasant.

Larry

[tod evans]

larry, i`m pretty much a nut when it comes to doing things with a tablesaw but i never intentionally use a piece of metal as a push stick, especially metal capable of fracturing carbide......of course you may do as you see fit but please at least give some thought to what you`re suggesting......02 tod

[Larry Conely]

Tod,

I presumed it goes without saying that one must be careful with metal around blades, just as one is with fingers, etc. I've been using these for 25 years so far without a ding.

Larry

[Lars Thomas]

Larry, I'm with Tod. Sticking drill rod near a spinning blade doesn't sound like fun. However, I think doing the same thing with dowel rod would make for a very effective push stick.

[M. A. Espinoza]

My favorite is not actually a stick, but sharpened rods.

Larry

Whenever I am doing a tricky operation I try to think of the obvious and also what could happen if my "safe" way doesn't prevent a kick. In one of my first shops my boss made a big point of thinking about how you position your hands on the workpiece. Even on the planer he chewed me out if I was holding the wood in such a way that if the piece kicked I would lose the skin off my palms and fingers. My point is that safety involves not only accident prevention but also thinking about what will the results will be if the something happens during an operation.

With a wooden or even aluminum pusher if you accidentally hit the blade it will have a lot less effect than steel. I'm not saying Larry should change his technique but someone else might not have the same results.

On pushers I try to make mine so that if the wood catches the pusher will be pulled without taking my hand with it. So no handles to wrap your hand or finger holes. Usually I'm using the push shoe type rather than the stick if possible.

Of course a properly aligned saw, fence, and splitter are as important as anything else to keep that blade from catching the work. But you never know when you'll hit some wierd tension in the wood or an embedded piece of metal so its good to think about what will happen if something goes wrong even if you do everything right.