Table saw blades

[Lori Kleinberg]

Yes, I did a search and read what I found:confused: . My table saw is the Rigid TS2400, I know it is not much but have shop size constraints and overall been pretty pleased. Time to buy some new blades. The saw really bogged down(tripped breaker:mad: ) when ripping 5/4 oak. Any and all suggestions welcome. Please remember I'm not related to Bill Gates:p money is a definite consideration. Also looking into a the Freud Dado 500 series. What is the difference between the 6" and 8".:confused:
Thanks for your help

[Alan DuBoff]

Lori,

Sent you an email with some info on reasonably priced blades.

[Brian Hale]

I used a Freud Diablo blade on my Craftsman contractor saw and was Very Very pleased with it. You'll do well to get thin kerf blades as opposed to the full 1/8" blades; removes less material and requires less motor HP.
I'm pretty sure you can pick the Diablo blades at HD.

Brian :)

[Jesse Cloud]

Lori,
You probably don't want to hear this advice, but I would look at a couple of things before I bought upscale blades. If your saw is tripping a breaker, you may well be running too many amps on that circuit. If you can, figure out what all is plugged into that circuit and add up the amps of everything that would likely be running while the saw is. I like to have 20% or so more amps than that number.

The other issue is the horsepower of your saw. 5/4 isn't very thick, so I'm surprised its bogging down. 1.5 HP is the absolute minimum to do any useful work and 3 is much better.

The other thing is to see whether your blade is clean and the teeth sharp. A buddy of mine who runs a sharpening service said most of the stuff that comes into his shop would do fine with just a good cleaning.

Lastly, check the alignment of your blade and your fence with the miter slot. If something is out of parallel, the wood could be binding and cause all kinds of problems. There are some good threads on this board about how to check alignment and fix problems.

Having said all that, I love Forrest blades, but they are expensive. I have seen very good reviews of the Tenryu blades and they are much cheaper.

Sorry this ran on so long, good luck with this.

By the way, a dado set will stress your saw much more than a rip blade...

[Frank Hagan]

Hi Lori,

Take a look at the Freud blades, especially their thin kerf blades, for easier cutting. I upgraded to a Forrest Woodworker II thin kerf, but they usually run over $100.

If you are looking for a good combination blade for most every day use, you can get the Freud LU-83R10 blade for $45 at Amazon.com with free shipping ... but it may also be available locally at Home Depot or Lowes. (Forum rules prohibit providing a commercial link, but you can search for that at Amazon.com to see what other blades they have). I've used the Freud blades, including that specific one above, and I keep telling myself the small improvement a more expensive blade gives just isn't worth the difference in price.

I have a Jet contractor's saw, and it has the same "power problem" with hardwoods over 1". A thin kerf blade really helps. And so does a dedicated blade for ripping ... they have less teeth, so they don't bind quite as easily. You probably have a combination blade on your Ridgid saw now, and I'll bet it has 40 or more teeth. If its a carbide blade, it is probably still in good condition, and if you've been happy with it when cross-cutting, then getting a dedicated ripping blade might be a good alternative to buying a new combo blade.

The Freud LU87R010 is a thin kerf ripping blade with 24 teeth, and at Amazon.com is only $35 with free shipping. You wouldn't want to use this for cross-cutting, as the cut would be a little rough, but its a good blade for ripping. The question is do you want to replace the blade when you change from ripping to cross cutting? For me and the way I work, I prefer to spend a little bit more on a good combo blade like the Freud mentioned above. But if I have to rip a lot of material, I do change the blade.

[Allen Bookout]

I go along with Brian. Freud thin kerf Diablo. I use that blade on my circular saw. Smooth cuts and does not take much power. Economical on top of that.

6" dado setup takes less power to run than 8". Unless you need to cut really deep I would think that you would want to go with the 6" on that saw.

Allen

[scott spencer]

Good alignment is critical to good performance and is essentially free...check that first.

A sharp blade and the right blade choice is just about as critical. Your saw will benefit from a good 3/32" thin kerf blade. A good 40T general purpose blade is always useful and is about the most versatile blade you can buy....add a 24T ripper for thick stock and you can do alot. I love the Forrest and Ridge Carbide 40T TK's, but those will run ~ $80. Freud's best general purpose 40T TK blade is the LU86R010 from their Industrial series...a full step up from their Diablo for just a couple more dollars - $32 to $40 range....excellent value IMO. For a ripper, it's hard to beat the current Leitz deal that Mike Jackson is offering over at Woodnet....$11 for a high quality German made blade that's identical to the $47 Schumacher & Sohn blade.

10" z24 FLAT TOP fast rip thin kerf #011 $ $11 each

moderator removed a direct link to another public forum -- TOS violation

http://www.epinions.com/content_227985493636
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00020JOBO/ref=sr_11_1/104-7644485-9915142?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=228013

Regarding your breaker...make sure your not using a long under sized extension cord.

[Larry Norton]

Lori, like Allen says, an 8" dado uses much more power especially on start up. 90% of your dados are probably going to be less than 1" deep, and a 6" dado will do that easily.

For the breaker problem, you need to find out what is plugged into the same circuit that your saw is. Turn off that breaker, then go try everything on your shop, and, for that matter, anything that is near the shop. If yours is an older house, there may be a lot of stuff on the same circuit. Whatever doesn't come on will be on the same circuit. Then, try ripping the 5/4 board with everything else on that circuit turned off.

If you look on the breaker switch in your panel, it should have a number on it, either 15 or 20. I'm betting it says 15, which means the circuit is a 15 amp circuit. Your table saw should have a dedicated circuit that only the table saw should be plugged into. If you don't have the ability to run a dedicated circuit just for the table saw, try to have everything else turned off before you use the saw, unless your shop lights are on the same circuit

[Mark Rios]

Lori, I've got a Ridgid TS2424, circa 1998. We must be cousins. :D I've cut ALOT of 2x and 8/4 material both soft, green wood and hardwood. I've even raised the blade to 2+ inches, burying the blade in various hardwoods for 24" to 48" long cuts and haven't really had any trouble. Everything is adjusted to the anal stage for optimum cutting. I use a PALS set-up on my trunions and a link belt.

I use full kerf blades as much as I can, however I do have a couple of thin kerf Irwin 40 tooth blades that I use for framing material so that I don't have to use my good blades on green wood. I also have a thin kerf, 24 tooth Freud (all my good blades are Freud) blade but I only bought it for an emergency and they didn't have a full kerf available. I don't particularly like the Diablo series. It just doesn't give me a good feel when cutting.

I've had a couple of times where there has been a bog down issue but it was always when expected.

I have to run a 50" cord to my table saw now (never longer) and the run from the receptacle to the breaker is >24". The cord is 12 gauge wire; I never run ANYTHING less than 12 gauge wire and no longer than 50" for any tools except for my big outdoor lights. As stated, I would look at your electrical supply configuration and see if something there could be improved. Our saws, while having a relatively light motor should be able to do just fine with 5/4, 6/4 even 8/4.

That said, I really like Freuds dedicated ripping blades for ripping and the cross cut blades for crosscutting (funny how that works out). I haven't found a combo blade that I'm really happy with. Alot of folks like the WWII but I just sold mine (full kerf). I'ts a very good blade but it just didn't fit me.

I own the Freud 508. I can't get the full stack on but I can cut 3/4". However the real trick is that, on our arbor, there is a groove/depression between the shoulder that a single blade sets on and the first thread. This causes the second blade of the dado stack to drop down when mounting it, causing a groove in the bottom of the dado. In alot of cases I can deal with it because the dado ends don't show because they get covered but, sometimes a dado end will show and then it kinda looks funny. Also as has been mentioned, the 6" should be fine. If I hadn't had my bonehead factor turned on when I was buying my dado set, I would have bought the 6" as well. The deepest I've ever cut was 3/4" and that was only 2 dados.


hth

[Bob Childress]

Lori,

You have gotten planty of good advice already, so I'll just throw in another plug for the Freud Diablo. I put one on my circular saw and could really tell the difference.:)

[Vaughn McMillan]

Another Freud vote...but mine's for the Freud Industrial series thin kerf blades. I've got a couple rip blades and a crosscut blade, and am very happy with both types. I got my first Freud thin kerf rip blade when I was still using a little Skil benchtop saw that was bogging down when cutting 8/4 hard maple. It made a world of difference on that little saw, and when I got my Ridgid TS3650, I stayed with the Freuds, since they do exactly what I need them to do.

- Vaughn

[glenn bradley]

Have the Woodworker II an it is a good 'general purpose' blade. When I want clean ripping or crosscutting I use my Freud thin krerf blades (usually under $50 a piece). This kerf is the way to go for underpowered saws (like my 1HP). I do use stabilizers but have done cuts without and had reasonable results.

6 inch vs. 8 on the dado; 8 inch will allow deeper dados. If the price isn't that much different I would go with 8 inch as the dado will be around even if you upgrade your saw, eh? Again, MANY people are very happy with thier Frueds.

[John Kendall]

Being a rookie woodworker, this advise was given to me at a woodworking tool show in Indianapolis on ripping wood.

The man working at the saw told me to raise the blade up very high above the board so that you give the teeth a chance to stay cooler and it hits the blade in a different location changing the torque against the blade.

I hope I have what he told me accurate. I'm sure the experts will correct me if I am wrong. That's what I've tried and it seems to work better for me when ripping thicker pieces of wood.:)

[Scott D Johnson]

I have run a Forrest Woodworker 2 and other combination blades, but I just switched to a dedicated crosscut and dedicated rip blade. It really does make a difference.(Sure it adds a little bit of time, but I am not a pro). The crosscuts are glass smooth and the rips are much easier. I, too run a 1.5 hp saw.
Freud LU87R010 = $35 (24 toot thin kerf rip)
Freud LU88R010 = $45 (60 tooth thin kerf crosscut)

[Mark Rios]

Being a rookie woodworker, this advise was given to me at a woodworking tool show in Indianapolis on ripping wood.

The man working at the saw told me to raise the blade up very high above the board so that you give the teeth a chance to stay cooler and it hits the blade in a different location changing the torque against the blade.

I hope I have what he told me accurate. I'm sure the experts will correct me if I am wrong. That's what I've tried and it seems to work better for me when ripping thicker pieces of wood.:)


Everything I've read says that the material being cut should come to somewhere in the range of half of the height of the teeth and the bottom of the gullet. Hmmmmm............

[Bruce Wrenn]

I used a Freud Diablo blade on my Craftsman contractor saw and was Very Very pleased with it. You'll do well to get thin kerf blades as opposed to the full 1/8" blades; removes less material and requires less motor HP.
I'm pretty sure you can pick the Diablo blades at HD.

Brian :) Current issue of Popular Woodworking does a comparision of ten inch blades. Including price as one of the factors, Freud 40 tooth Diablo, ranked up at the top with Forrest WW II. I use Freud 40 tooth from HD on job site saw and Dewalt 703 miter saw. Great bang for bucks. One thing I have learned about Forrest blades is that they will rust as fast as any other in summer time, especially is left in cardboard sleeve. Seems like to me , that as much as Forrest blades costs, they could include a piece of vapor emiting paper on each side of blade in between blade and cardboard. A couple of years back, I bought a blade on clearance at Woodworkers Supply (house brand), and it had vapor emiting papeer included.

[Scott Vigder]

I have had the Forrest Woodworker II since November of last year, and after approximately 2500 board feet of cherry and oak it is ready to be sharpened.
The blade is true, leaves a velvety smooth surface that hardly needs sanding, and best of all if you watch Amazon closely you can get a real good deal. I have a new one sitting in my shop that was just delivered for $63.00 including shipping! I'll send my old one to Forrest for sharpening, and place it in service when this one starts to wear. I beleive I paid $82 for my old one.
I researched long and hard when I bought this blade. It does not disappoint at all, and it seems every time I to read about blade competitions, the Forrest WWII comes out at, or tied, for the top spot.

[christopher miller]

I like a lot of other posters have had good luck with Freud blades . I have been useing them for 26 yrs with great sucess until now.It so happened that i needed the full cutting depth of my saw 3-3/8". I found out that the Freud is noly 9-7/8 ". marked 10" all over it with no mention of a metric size,that what they have done is manufacture a 250m(appox) blade and JUST call it a 10"close enough for them i guess.
I called up their head quaters in S. C ( I think) and was never treated so poorly . The man there told me that if they advertised that it was only 9-7/8 (appox) they would never be able to sell them. Well , they have no problem mach/ineing a .625 bore to suit the US market whats so hard about making the od a full 10" .
I used to tell every one that needed a blade that Freud was hard to beat , NOt no more , Iwill never buy another blade from them . As a matter of fact maybe i will
l contact the consumer protection agency. I feell that a 1/8" tolerance is far out of the ball park. Chris Miller
By The way their 8" thin kerf blades are also mis labbled

[christopher miller]

I, like a lot of other posters have had good luck with Freud Blades . The other day i needed the full cutting depth of my saw 3-3/8and was coming up short . i discovered that the Freud blades are only 9-7/8" (appox0.
I called up their head quaters and was told that if they marked on them what they really were thety would not be able to sell them . I have been useing them with great sucess for 26 yrs . It may sound petty that i t was the first time that i have needed the full depth that would draw my attention to it but i feel a costomer should get what they paid for a full 10". I will contact the consumer protection agency. their 8" blades are also than advertised Chris
Sorry if this was a double post as it woul not work the first time

[Alan DuBoff]

I have had the Forrest Woodworker II since November of last year, and after approximately 2500 board feet of cherry and oak it is ready to be sharpened.
The blade is true, leaves a velvety smooth surface that hardly needs sanding, and best of all if you watch Amazon closely you can get a real good deal. I have a new one sitting in my shop that was just delivered for $63.00 including shipping! I'll send my old one to Forrest for sharpening, and place it in service when this one starts to wear. I beleive I paid $82 for my old one.
I researched long and hard when I bought this blade. It does not disappoint at all, and it seems every time I to read about blade competitions, the Forrest WWII comes out at, or tied, for the top spot.Scott,

Seems like a good story that has a happy ending, I love those.

I was visiting a friend today that had a nice european slider, and used to use Forrest blades in it. He sent one back to Forrest, along with a set of carbide jointer blades (valued at $200). When he got them back, both the saw blade (I think it was a WWII, but he had several) and the jointer knives had a lot of material taken off of them, on the order of way more than they needed to sharpen the blades.

His jointer (Northfield 16" jointer :)) blades were different depths, rather than being the same depth. He called Forrest about it and they said it shouldn't have happened and they would make them good, but as he pointed out to them, they already took several years off the blades with this fiasco...and they took different amounts off the teeth on his saw blade also...he said he'll never give them any of his business, ever.

I have a couple Forrest blades also, but I am a hobbyist. I think the blades are good, but overpriced. I consider the above service to be unsatisfactory.

If I was you, I would send the Forrest blade to Scott Whiting down in AZ, and certainly my opinion, and as I point out I am just a hobbyist so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I've never used Scott, just hear good things about him. Scott would be a good place to check for blades also.

More and more I meet folks that have used Forrest in the past but don't plan to use them in the future. This doesn't seem to be a good trend, but when you're growin' as fast as Forrest it probably doesn't really matter. I'm sure they gain more than they loose, but that trend could change, IMO, and it certainly is with many of the woodworkers I associate with. :eek:

[Allen Bookout]

i discovered that the Freud blades are only 9-7/8" (appox0.

That is good information to have. I only recommended them as I had good luck with their blades that fit my circular saw. I was thinking about picking up one of their 10" (Ha!) blades for my cabinetsaw but will surely measure before that I buy after this report.

Thanks! Allen

[John Kendall]

I wish I could remember that guy's name that told me about the height thing on ripping. He was selling table saw fences of some kind. Hhmmm... This is going to drive me nuts until I think of who he was.:confused:

[Allen Bookout]

Everything I've read says that the material being cut should come to somewhere in the range of half of the height of the teeth and the bottom of the gullet. Hmmmmm............
This might be one or those things that is just however you want to do it. If I am not mistaken, Kelly Mehler that did the video "Mastering Your Table Saw" said that the gullet should actually come out the top of the wood. I will watch it again in the morning if I get time and make a correction if this is not the case. I do for sure remember him saying that one of his old shop teachers said to raise the blade to however deep that you wanted to cut into your fingers.

I can see the logic about raising the blade tips well above the wood if is working extremely hard to cut down on the heat and possible expansion of the blade metal which would make it work even harder. Just thinking out loud on this one.

Allen

[Mark Rios]

I found these interesting:

See number 4 on this page:
http://www.ehow.com/how_12233_table-saw.html


See 1.2.1.2 Blade Height:
http://home.att.net/~waterfront-woods/Articles/Tablesaw/tablesaw.htm


This from Canadas version of OSHA. Second set of bullets, second bullet from the bottom:
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/safety_haz/woodwork/tbl_saw.html


WoodZone Online store has this:
http://www.woodzone.com/tips/safety/one-tooth.htm


This one seems official, it's from an "institute". 7th tip from the top:
http://www.powertoolinstitute.com/safety/tablesaw.html


And that's just the first page.................



How 'bout we all just shake hands, give each other a hug, buy each other a diet soda and just be very, very careful when using our table saws.


Agreed?



:D

[Norman Hitt]

Lori, I think you have a problem with too much "load" on your line, or the wiring is too small, or something, and that should be the first thing you check out. The reason I say this, is that because of still not having permanent power to my shop, I have to drag extension cords out from the house to the shop to run my buddy's 110V machines instead of my higher hp 220v machines. I have made several projects with his Rigid (2424 IIRC) saw, and I only use FULL 1/8" kerf blades. ( I actually HATE thin kerf blades). It is nearly 20' from my house breaker panel to the outlet on the patio, and then I have a 50' exstension cord on that , and the cord on the Rigid saw is about 6' long, and using a Freud 74??? Ultimate Rip, FULL Kerf rip blade I have never had the saw bog down or trip a breaker yet, even when resawing 3/4" x 3" Red Oak. I don't even remember the brand of the combination blade I've used on it, (got it with my PM-66 16 years ago), but it is a FULL Kerf blade also, and no bogging down or brkr tripping with it either.

[scott spencer]

... The crosscuts are glass smooth and the rips are much easier. I, too run a 1.5 hp saw.
Freud LU87R010 = $35 (24 toot thin kerf rip)
Freud LU88R010 = $45 (60 tooth thin kerf crosscut)

Scott - I just wanted to 2nd the LU88 as a consideration. I have one, along with an LU86, and a WWII. It does cut ever so slightly cleaner than my 40T WWII, but doesn't rip as aggressively and isn't quite as versatile. The LU88 has the same tooth geometry as the LU86 but cuts cleaner b/c of the higher tooth count. It has enough positive hook (15 degrees) that it'll actually rip fairly aggressively with a very smooth cut in about 6/4" material on my hybrid saw....it's as much a general purpose blade as a crosscut blade and comes from their upper Industrial series, so it's made to a higher standard than their bigbox offerings. Excellent choice if you don't mind giving up some ripping efficiency and speed relative to the LU86, and is an excellent value.

http://www.epinions.com/content_226312687236

[scott spencer]

Current issue of Popular Woodworking does a comparision of ten inch blades. Including price as one of the factors, Freud 40 tooth Diablo, ranked up at the top with Forrest WW II. I use Freud 40 tooth from HD on job site saw and Dewalt 703 miter saw. Great bang for bucks. One thing I have learned about Forrest blades is that they will rust as fast as any other in summer time, especially is left in cardboard sleeve. Seems like to me , that as much as Forrest blades costs, they could include a piece of vapor emiting paper on each side of blade in between blade and cardboard. A couple of years back, I bought a blade on clearance at Woodworkers Supply (house brand), and it had vapor emiting papeer included. Hi Bruce - Is it possible that it was Woodworker's Journal that did that comparison and not Pop WWing? Either way, I think it's important to elaborate on the performance results b/c there is a difference. The Forrest ranked 1st in performance, and took a hit for it's price in the overall comparison. The DeWalt DW7640 did well too IIRC. Several other less expensive blades did well overall b/c of the price factor, but did not fare well in actual performance ratings....the Ridgid 1050 and Diablo come to mind. Many less expensive blades tend to dull faster and withstand fewer sharpenings due to smaller carbide, which ultimately reduces their initial savings. That's why IMO it's important to note the various quality levels of the different lines from the same manufacturer...sometimes the cost is truly just a couple of dollars for a noticeable upgrade.

[Nick Clayton]

Lori,

Just to throw another suggestion in the blade category; Amana. There regulkar line is quite good, but can be on the high dollar side. I was using thin kerf red blades from the box store with ok results. I went to a local blade shop/sharpening service (3rd generation) on a recommendation looking to buy some dedicated blades and got a 2 hour education in blade design, construction, materials.

The other thing was the gentleman didn't send me home with the Forrest, Systematic or regular Amana that he was selling. He steered me towards the Amana A.G.E series (http://www.agecuttingtools.com/). He feel's these are the best blades for the buck and are just as good as any of the other blades that he sells. Why did he sell me three dedicated blades for the cost of a bit over a single Forrest? I don't know. But I can say that I will never go back to using a general purpose blade again.

I don't know what some of the more advanced folks experienced has been with these blades, but I cannot even compare the results of my red blades to these. They seem better constructed, more carbide and the cuts have been exceptional.

[Lori Kleinberg]

:eek: Oh boy, I can't believe all the advice I have been given. I will definitely have hubby check into the wiring situation. He was the one that added all the outlets in my shop part of the garage.
I will also double(or triple)check my saw alignment. I am using a Freud thin kerf combo blade, have to go out and check model #.
Everything I have ever read says to raise blade just barely above wood, so that is what I do.
As far as new blade choice, you guys have given me alot to think about, besides price. Maybe I should consider dedicated ripping and crosscutting? Another thing I will have to think on.
Thanks

[Curt Harms]

Being a rookie woodworker, this advise was given to me at a woodworking tool show in Indianapolis on ripping wood.

The man working at the saw told me to raise the blade up very high above the board so that you give the teeth a chance to stay cooler and it hits the blade in a different location changing the torque against the blade.

I hope I have what he told me accurate. I'm sure the experts will correct me if I am wrong. That's what I've tried and it seems to work better for me when ripping thicker pieces of wood.:)

I believe Forrest recommends running the blade high so the angle at which the teeth hit the wood are optimum for the blade design. Freud recommends running their blades lower, just clearing the stock. It depends on how the blade is designed, I think. I have Freud F40's and run about 1/2 a tooth above the top of the stock. I prefer less blade exposed, just feels better. YMMV.

Curt