Scoring blade......?

[John Kain]

So I got a whole lotta information from Laguna the other day about their equipment. I really dig their stuff (who doesn't)....

My one question is..........

Does anyone really use a scoring blade? I know it's a beautiful thing, but is it really necessary in most shops? I use veneered plywood alot and have been really disappointed in the cuts I get, especially crosscuts. I know the scoring blade would help, but does it really make as clean of cuts as they say it does. I use a pretty sharp Freud blade now, but I'm still disappointed.

I'm really looking at the Laguna TSS now. If you remember my post earlier, I'm a surgeon and am looking at the Sawstop vs. European type saws to protect my livelihood. The TSS seems to "get me away from the blade" very well, and is made damn well with a tabletop similar to the sawstop. The TSS accessory is a scoring blade and I'm seriously thinking about it. Any thoughts?

[Ian Barley]

I don't use mine often because most of my work is solid timber and doesn't need it. When I do use it it works perfectly. It is not a gimmick. If you are in the market anyway the extra dollars will be worth it. I would not buy a saw of this type without even if only as a way of protecting future resale value.

[lou sansone]

if your going to be cutting sheet veneered sheet stock then a scoring blade is really worth it. Folks who don't have scoring blades have ways of making the cut with good success, but I am sure that if one were to have a saw with it on it, that option would be used all the time when processing veneered sheet stock.
lou

[Vaughn McMillan]

Question for those with scoring blade experience: What does the scoring blade do that the main blade does not? I understand the concept of a shallow cut preceding the main cut, but how does it prevent chipout? I know it does, but I'm curious as to how. In other words, how does the scoring blade cut the veneer without chipping the edge of the cut?

- Vaughn

[David Werkheiser]

John, yes scoring blades do give a clean cut on both sides of cut if set-up right. they are usually only on vert. panel and sliding panel saws. They are very costly ($ 10,000- 45,000) but,cut accurate square panels with chip-free square edges while keeping your hands well away from blade. These saws take-up a fair amount of space, my Holz Her vert. takes 6'x12' and my friends Alteddolf 10' slider has a 12'x24' footprint. If space is limited, go with the Saw Stop and a Festool. With their guide and vaccume you will get good , clean cuts. Do your self a favor and do a search on Laguna both on this site and on "WoodWeb"
Best of luck, Dave W
Vaughn, A scoring blade works because of it's size ,4"; cuts only 1/8" deep and rotates in oppsite direction. Hope this helps

[Dan Larson]

John, I have the TSS with scoring. If you have any plans to ever work with plywood, than I would urge you get the scoring option. I've been working with Baltic birch lately, and makes life so much easier. A while back I did the experiment of making a cut through ply with and without the scoring blade-- the difference was dramatic.

Vaughn, I'm not certain of the reason why a scoring blade prevents veneer blowout, but I'd have to guess that it has to do with the cutting angles of the blade teeth as they travel through the bottom veneer layer. It seems to me that the shallow cut of the scoring blade allows for a cut with more of a lateral component, while the main blade making the full depth cut will travel through the veneer layer with more of a downward component. But then again my explaination may be a little suspect because it's Sunday morning and I haven't had my coffee yet...

Dan

Edit: Now that I've had my coffee and read David & Paul's posts, I'd agree that the counter rotation of the scoring blade is the better explaination.

[Paul B. Cresti]

A scoring blade does exactly what it's names says. It puts a slight score on the panel prior to the main blade cutting the panel. It works on the similair concept of running a Exacto knife along the edges of chip board to create a score line. Each successive cut cuts a little more and thus gives a sharp clean edge. The scoring blade rotates in the oppposite direction, and creates this light "score line". You need to adjust the scoring blade in width (similar to a dado blade with a split scorer or raising the blade hieght in a conical shaped scorer), height, and lateral position in relation to the main saw blade cut line.

Yes there are many ways to score a panel to get good results and in many instances a good laminate blade will do a great job but with a scorer you do not need to keep switching out your blades all the time (sometimes i still do though). If you have the option of getting one i would highlt recommend that you do.

Do also check out the other manufacturers of European sliders as the TSS seems a bit limiting and more like a hybrid between a CS and a EFSTS.

[Burt Waddell]

So I got a whole lotta information from Laguna the other day about their equipment. I really dig their stuff (who doesn't)....

My one question is..........

Does anyone really use a scoring blade? I know it's a beautiful thing, but is it really necessary in most shops? I use veneered plywood alot and have been really disappointed in the cuts I get, especially crosscuts. I know the scoring blade would help, but does it really make as clean of cuts as they say it does. I use a pretty sharp Freud blade now, but I'm still disappointed.

I'm really looking at the Laguna TSS now. If you remember my post earlier, I'm a surgeon and am looking at the Sawstop vs. European type saws to protect my livelihood. The TSS seems to "get me away from the blade"
very well, and is made damn well with a tabletop similar to the sawstop. The TSS accessory is a scoring blade and I'm seriously thinking about it. Any thoughts?


Only one thought on the sliding table saw. It has limitations as to the cuts that it can make.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Only one thought on the sliding table saw. It has limitations as to the cuts that it can make.

Do not start this again, we now know what you have used in the past..... just wanted to add my .02 ...and I will NOT comment again on it.

[George Lesniak]

John,

Just curious, did they send you info on the "new" TSS or the previous model?

http://www.lagunatools.com/images/preview_machines/sneal_preview.html

There are no real details, just pictures.

George

[Charlie Plesums]

Question for those with scoring blade experience: What does the scoring blade do that the main blade does not? I understand the concept of a shallow cut preceding the main cut, but how does it prevent chipout? I know it does, but I'm curious as to how. In other words, how does the scoring blade cut the veneer without chipping the edge of the cut?

- Vaughn
The scoring blade rotates in the opposite direction to the main blade. Thus the scoring blade enters the bottom face of the wood (pushing into the wood) and exits through the kerf just cut. The main blade enters the top face of the wood (pushing into the wood from the top) and exits through the kerf cut by the scoring blade.

I use my scoring blade on practically every cut in veneered material, especially cross-cut, and have virtually no chip out (if there is any, I need to align the scoring blade).

I have the 8.5 foot MiniMax slider, and in recent discussions realized that it doesn't take any more space than a regular table saw. If I am going to rip an 8 foot board, I need to have 17 feet available - the blade plus 8 feet before and after the blade - the same space I have to keep clear for my slider (but I don't have to find and set up the infeed/outfeed stands). If I am going to cross-cut an 8 foot panel (or even a 10 foot sheet), I will use the outrigger to hold it steady as it goes through the cut. When I am doing a lot of sheet goods or long cross-cuts, I keep the outrigger on, just as I would keep the support tables set up with my old table saw. If I need shop space (the assembly phase of a project), I would have put my support tables away with my old saw; in less time I can now remove the outrigger from my slider to make room. Although a sliding table saw or combo machine looks huge, in practice it doesn't take any more room than a regular saw with the required support accessories.

[nic obie]

To add to what Charlie said about the space a slider takes, you really don't need the 52" rip capacity that conventional table saws need in order to crosscut a 4 x 8 sheet of ply. On a slider you just use the outrigger on the crosscut fence. My slider has a 32" rip capacity but I really only need 25".

My saw is a MM SC2 with only a 52" crosscut stroke (outrigger crosscut fence will support 65" to the left of the blade) but it takes up less room than my old saw with a 52" rip capacity fence and a feed out table big enough to rip 8' long ply.

As to the comment about sliders not being able to make all the cuts a conventional saw can, I for one, haven't come across that problem. In fact, IMHO I'd have to say it's the other way around.

One thing more that I can't stress enough, Using a format style sliding table saw keeps your hands away from the blade. It would be the best of both worlds if you cold buy a slider with the Saw Stop safety brake, but if I had to pick between the two I'd go for the format style slider.

[Burt Waddell]

Do not start this again, we now know what you have used in the past..... just wanted to add my .02 ...and I will NOT comment again on it.

Paul,

'Just wanted to make sure he was aware of the limitations of the saw. In fact, I believe it was you that posted about a jig that you had made so that you could cut smaller items. (forgive me if I'm incorrect)

Burt

[Brian Gumpper]

John,

I don't have a Laguna but can tell you I score and then cut all my critical plywood pieces. I am using just a 50T ATBR combo blade and without scoring first, you will get some ragged edges on the bottom side.

So to answer your question, a scoring blade is a good idea if you are going to run a lot of sheet goods.

[john whittaker]

John, I read your previous post and IMHO...based on your situation I think you are looking in the right direction. This is not an endorsement for Laguna, but a node in the direction of a euro style slider.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Paul,

'Just wanted to make sure he was aware of the limitations of the saw. In fact, I believe it was you that posted about a jig that you had made so that you could cut smaller items. (forgive me if I'm incorrect)

Burt

Burt,
Lets not get into "jigs" again remember what your choice is made up of??? One could use a REAL EFSTS just by itself to do the cutting I do without my jig. Can you say the same for your circular saw?

By the way since you are now advertising and taking money for yourself....I would go very easy on your comments...at least that is my opinion.

[Burt Waddell]

Paul,

Stick to the subject. I have mentioned no tool other than a sliding table saw in this thread. I'd appreciate it if you would do the same.

Burt

[Burt Waddell]

<TABLE class=tborder id=post283956 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><TABLE cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"></TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap>Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Skillman, NJ
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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- / user info --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_283956><!-- message, attachments, sig --><!-- icon and title -->EFSTS part 8 of ????



<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Hello everyone again it is I once again with a new report from ........ me :)

Ok so I have mentioned in the past of all the great things you can do with a EFSTS and how the old American CS is archaic but many people still can not see how it replaces that archaic saw... well I have an idea to show you. Now bear in mind this is a working prototype so think of it as a work in progress.

I have been trying to think of a way to use my slider to all its benefits. Ripping solid stock to a final dimension without needing any edge joining or planing to the correct dimension has been on my mind for quite some time. Think about, for us small one man shops, if you could rip to the final dimension right from a board that has it correct thickness what kind of time that could save you. Now on top of this add the safety of not having your hands near the blade! Sounds good doesn't it? Well I was trying to figure this out and I think I am at least now heading in the right direction.

My idea was to use a ripping jig that could be placed on the slider side that would make use of that repetitive fixed track of motion, use some type of clamping system that keeps your hands away from the blade but at the same time be able to be quickly removed to be able to jump right into another function.

This is what I have so far:

Pic#1 shows the jig on the outrigger table without any stock loaded. You will notice the red handle clamps are the stock holders (I have various hole postions to change for different size stock) the eccentric clamps on the slider are for holding the jig firmly. Also note the jig fits over the main crosscut fence.

Pic#2 this is the back of the jig. Notice how it fits over the main crosscut fence. You will also see the three carriage bolts with wings nuts sticking out. Those are there to provide a snug fit against the crosscut fence. They are pushing on a piece of plastic the gives the correct fit but yet allows the jig to slide along the fence. Kind of works like the Festool system where you tighten those little screws to snug the travel along the guide rail

Pic#3 & Pic#4 shows the stock clamped down before and after it passes through the completely covered blade. You can see the holes in the jig for placement of the clamps in different positions or to be able to add more clamps. Currently I can rip something as narrow as about 1" with the guard in place as the clamps get in the way. My main intention is for parts like 2" and wider, more along the lines of face frames for cabinets, styles and rails for doors ..... things that require a lot of pieces.

continued in next thread...................
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Paul B. Cresti, AIA
The Woodworking Architect
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"Kind of works like the Festool system". I'm sure glad you didn't mention the other brand.

Burt

[Alan DuBoff]

John,

Either saw will get you some safety, the sawstop is a good saw, no doubt. I agree with your assessment, but don't own either. I saw a european slider today, and I must say it was nice.

The sawstop stops the blade, period, and that seems like a good thing.

Only you can decide what is right for you, and what give you the comfort. There is no replacement for using your brain, as a surgeon you probably know this second hand, but there is certainly no magic in woodworking, sharp tools that can cut wood can cut flesh.

A table saw is but one tool in the shop, and even a chisel can cut flesh and cut a tendon or similar. There are no guarantees. Be careful, try to think things out before doing them, and always practice saftey.

Paul, I have no dog in this fight other than I think Burt sold me a tool about a year ago, and he was a nice guy to deal with, if he's the same guy.

I think Burt has a good point, that it would be good to understand the limitations of a slider, since the OP was considering one. Please don't drag some other thread into this one.

What limitations does a slider have? I would like to know that, and I'm sure the OP would also.

The sawstop doesn't really have any limitations, it's designed for mistakes. :eek:

[Ian Barley]

What limitations does a slider have? I would like to know that, and I'm sure the OP would also.


As far as I am aware the limitations are those which are imposed by the physical size of the saw and the shop that it is in. Same as with any tool. If you buy a 10' slider don't expect to make 12' cuts with it. If your shop is 12' wide don't expect to cross cut 14' lengths of timber in it.

If you are making diagonal cuts on full sheets of ply etc then these physical proportions might get difficult to accomodate because effective lengths etc are increased. If that is the case there are other ways of making the cut such as a guided saw system which could be easier to use. The problem with this argument against a slider is that I have never in my woodworking career had to make a diagonal cut across a full 8' X 4' sheet of anything and I suspect that it is not a common procedure. And the same problem arises with any table saw, regardless of how much technology is used.

If you believe, as the vast majority of pro woodworkers do, that a table saw of some sort is a key tool in a workshop then a good quality format (euro) sliding table saw with or without a scoring blade is as accurate, capable and safe a tool as you can get to fit that use. If you are going to use sheetgoods then I would get the scoring blade. Even if you only use it rarely, if you ever had need or want to sell the saw the absence of a scoring blade would reduce your pool of purchasers.

[Paul Canaris]

Before I had scoring on my slider, I used a marking knife to cut the fibers on the underside of the panel to prevent chip-out. This worked quite well, but was a real PITA. The scoring attachment works as advertised. If it's an option on the Laguna, get it. If your looking to protect your fingers, I think a slider with and overhead guard and lots of push sticks (for those times you do traditional ripping) is the way to go. Having had a bad accident with a TS 25 years ago, I am cautious myself. I am not you, but if I were, I would be looking at a MM, Felder or Knapp slider (with scoring), with shorter table stroke for space economy.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Limitations??? I have yet to find one...and I have used a circular saw, a Guided saw system, a table top saw, a contractor saw, a Unisaw, a 8.5ft slider and now a 10.5ft slider. The only possible one that could one could come with is the scenario that Ian came up with, an extreme angle cut on a very large sheet but as he also noted I have never needed that either. Worse came to worse I would take out my shooting board that sits in the corner of my shop.

Burt, you kill me. Keep up the advertising....maybe someone will take your class. Bringing up old postings to proove some convoluded point... A play on words no less and we can play this all day long. So lets keep on topic here ...right??? ...and this is one where you have no experience with a EFSTS ?

To all:
I think or hope that I have shown, by my postings, the benefits and beauty of these European machines that I have been so fortunate to be able to purchase (thanks to an understanding wife to my pursuit as my other career as a pro-woodworker). I may have joked along the way about my favorite manufacturer but I certainly do not think, at least I do, that I have been abrasive or confrontational. If some of you do then I apologize but I am getting a bit sick and tired of this attack, now and in the past, of certain select few with their constant barrage of marketing, advertising, and the need to "catch" people with bringing up old postings to "proove" something. Once again I will state I have no vested interest in what anyone purchases or uses...can the others say the same?

So if anyone has questions on these machines feel free to ask me as I will try to answer your questions the best I can. I do not claim to be an expert just someone whom has been lucky enough to use them. I remember when I took my "leap of faith" not many people that I knew of had any info on these machines..so maybe my little input can help others with their future decisions, either way.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

As to the comment about sliders not being able to make all the cuts a conventional saw can, I for one, haven't come across that problem. In fact, IMHO I'd have to say it's the other way around.
Ditto.
I can't guess what those operations might be but I'l hazzard a guess that the notion is pure myth.

[Burt Waddell]

Limitations??? I have yet to find one...

Paul,

The kind of things I am referring to is like those you have covered in your writings. Example: the one I quoted above. You found it necessary to make a jig to be able to rip a narrow piece. Even with your jig, you still can't rip to anything less than an inch without removing the guard.

I think this is just what the doctor was trying to avoid - working without proper guards.

If someone were to take the time to review your writings, I think thay may find similiar situations with cross cutting smaller items and some other operations.

If having to make special jigs and remove guards to make cuts isn't a limitation, what do you call it?

Burt

[Dan Larson]

John,

Just curious, did they send you info on the "new" TSS or the previous model?

http://www.lagunatools.com/images/preview_machines/sneal_preview.html

There are no real details, just pictures.

George

Thanks for posting the link. Very interesting. The new micro-adjust rip fence looks like a nice addition. Relocating the controls to the left side is a good thing, too. I'm disappointed to see that they have not taken the opportunity to improve the design of the crosscut fence, though.

Dan

[Ian Barley]

Whether you make a jig for a sliding table saw or buy a jig for a circular saw it is still a jig. Who cares! If Paul has demonstrated methods of work which enable him to extend the functionality of his table saw and they involve the use of jigs, fitments templates or geegaws does it really matter? If every time a thread comes up which mentions a table saw we end up with competing prosceletization, I for one will find better ways to spend my time.

I regularly rip less than an inch off solid timber on my slider and never make a cut without the guard on.

This is a thread about the usefulness of a scoring blade on a table saw. Lets try and keep it somewhere close to that shall we?

[lou sansone]

I agree with Ian and Paul

I am not sure what if any value Burt has provided to the original question about scoring blades on sliding table saws. My recommendation would be for Burt to start a new thread that focuses on what ever point he would like to make.

Scoring blades are a very usefull addition to any saw that is processing sheet stock.

lou

[frank shic]

Burt and Paul, can we all just GET ALONG for crying out loud?!? Both are good tools but handle different problems that we as woodworkers encounter. Trying to argue the superiority of one over the other is an exercise in futility - although it does generate a fair amount of responses!

[tod evans]

john,
scoring is standard on most sliders, it`s the cats meow for sheet goods. if you`re seriously looking into sliders good! spend a while researching, hopefully you`ll be able to attend the iwf like you mentioned in an earlier thread? either way spend a good amount of time researching equipment and companys before cutting a check......this should be the only saw you ever buy!

and burt,
i`m in agreement with lou, ian and paul, john asked about scoring blades, please try really hard to stick to the original question, if you have no experience with scoring blades then why jump in?
.02 tod

[Burt Waddell]

Frank,

If you will review my remarks in this thread, they have been limited to a discussion of the sliding table saw. I have not mentioned any thing either positive or negative about any other tool.

The original poster offered an explanation of the ultimate decision he hopes to make and my part has been focused on that. To Paul and several other members of this forum, there is nothing like a sliding table saw. I can appreciate their affection for the tool. In their zest to promote the slider, it appears to me that they are glossing over some the alterations and/or additons that are often made to adapt the tool. In fact the post I quoted earlier in this thread is # 8 in a series by Paul about the slider.

Burt

[Ian Barley]

Frank,

If you will review my remarks in this thread, they have been limited to a discussion of the sliding table saw....Burt

If you review the original question - John asked about the scoring blade on a sliding table saw. Every post up to yours discussed the usefulness or otherwise of the scoring blade on a sliding table saw. You sought to take the subject at a tangent where nobody else had.

Nobody who advocates the sliding table saw as a worthwhile tool has ever , to my recollection, claimed that it does everything for everybody all the time. Mine definitely is lousy at making coffee. The fact that Paul has shown ways in which he has extended the use of his saw does not negate the basic functionality of the saw. It just shows that Paul is an imaginative woodworker who is generous enough to share his imagination with others who may have an interest in it. All are equally entitle to ignore it as not relevant to them or their situation.

The fact is that John has decided that he wants the functionality of a table saw in his shop (like most of the woodworking world) and , in an earlier thread, sought opinions about the relative merits of two types of table saw. He has now sought opinions about a specific option relate to one of those types of table saw.

John - to try and keep this post somewhat related to your question - I would definitely encourage you, if you can afford to do so and decide to go ahead with a slider, to have a scoring blade fitted to it.

[Richard Wolf]

As far as scoring sheet goods, I can't say I have done this or how safe, but I have read about raising a standard saw blade 1/16" above the table and running your sheet goods in from the back of the saw. Raise the blade and run them foward again. I realize you are in a climb cut situation, but I'm not sure how grabby 1/16" of blade will be. Anybody ever go down this road?

Richard

[frank shic]

hey richard, thanks for mentioning another possible alternative for cutting melamine chip-free. i've tried the blue masking tape, double cutting from the front, using a melamine cutting blade and most recently my eurekazone guide rail with a pc mag loaded with a freud 40 tooth blade without success. i'll try reverse feeding later on this week.

PEACE to all!:p

[tod evans]

hey richard, thanks for mentioning another possible alternative for cutting melamine chip-free. i've tried the blue masking tape, double cutting from the front, using a melamine cutting blade and most recently my eurekazone guide rail with a pc mag loaded with a freud 40 tooth blade without success. i'll try reverse feeding later on this week.

PEACE to all!:p

frank, you can do what most of us used to do and that`s score the sheet with a knife before cutting......(be forewarned; the utility knife has the most emergency room visits to its credit of any construction tool).02 tod

[frank shic]

i'll give that a try as well, tod. thanks! now to change that knife blade...

[frank shic]

richard, i tried what you suggested and the melamine came out perfectly chip free on the bottom - once i lowered the blade to approximately 1/16". i'm embarassed to report that the first time i did this experiment, i had the blade up about 3/8". STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, EXTREMELY STUPID - right up there with crosscutting WIDE pieces with the rip fence. i haven't seen a board fly across the room that quickly in quite some time. fortunately, God was gracious to me and saved my fingers from a rather painful encounter!

i also foresee potential problems with long boards because i only had about six inches of fence before engaging the blade although this could be remedied by attaching an extension at the expense of an extra set-up. i don't think i'll be adopting this as my technique of choice for getting chip-free cuts.

tod, i tried scoring the board with a new utility knife blade but i still got a little bit of blowout on the bottom. in addition, you have to clamp some kind of a metal guide rail which adds an extra couple of steps. this isn't ideal for me, either.

i must say that the best and safest results i got so far were with... the eurekazone/pc mag combo. i set the blade for a 3/8" cut and dragged it backwards along the guide rail, lowered the blade and then made a regular cut. PERFECTION without endangerment at last! i noticed that the rail needs to be clamped down tightly or else it's too easy to bump the rail slightly and end up with an uneven edge.

having gone through all of this, i'll probably save the extra effort for where it really counts to have BOTH sides chip-free: shelves or exposed end panels.

[Dino Makropoulos]

i must say that the best and safest results i got so far were with... the eurekazone/pc mag combo. i set the blade for a 3/8" cut and dragged it backwards along the guide rail, lowered the blade and then made a regular cut. PERFECTION without endangerment at last! i noticed that the rail needs to be clamped down tightly or else it's too easy to bump the rail slightly and end up with an uneven edge.

.

Frank.
Sorry to say that cutting backwards with a CS is an invitation for... something to go wrong.
The blade rotates similar to a Radial arm saw.

Make a forward scoring cut 1/32" deep and follow with
a regular cut.

Much safer with similar results.

[frank shic]

really dino? alright, i'll try it your way - at least once! ;)

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Nobody who advocates the sliding table saw as a worthwhile tool has ever , to my recollection, claimed that it does everything for everybody.

Mine pours my wine and can make a hell of a fine Crem Brule. If I can get it to mow the lawn too I may marry it.

[Art Davis]

Well, Charlie Plesums gave a very cogent reason for why the scoring blade works. I am reviving this thread---not to try to fan the flames of the combos versus standard table saws, but to ask a question. If I raise the blade on my contractors saw to perhaps an eighth of an inch and feed the workpiece through backwards, is there a safety issue? I suppose that the initial contact between workpiece and blade will tend to lift the work piece. Is this a problem?

[frank shic]

art, don't raise it up that high! i used 1/16" but if i ever pull this crazy stunt again, it'll be with 1/32". you don't want to see just how fast the blade can pull that board away from you and since you're doing a scoring cut, there's NOTHING between you and the blade. definitely use a grout float to keep some more distance.

[Charlie Plesums]

Frank.
Sorry to say that cutting backwards with a CS is an invitation for... something to go wrong.
The blade rotates similar to a Radial arm saw.

Make a forward scoring cut 1/32" deep and follow with
a regular cut.

Much safer with similar results.
Dino, I agree that going forward with a shallow cut on a contractor saw, followed by going forward with a full cut in the same kerf works pretty well - I did it many times when I had a contractor saw before I got the combo machine with the slider... but it isn't the same thing, since the scoring blade enters the face of the wood on the bottom, and exits through the kerf - even less chance for chip-out than a shallow cut moving the work "the right way."

Back in the contractor saw days I had a huge cross-cut sled (a thin sheet of plywood with a long (~6 foot) hardwood bar that rode in the miter slot and a guide at the edge carefully aligned perpendicular to the blade... this provided the stability so both shallow and through cuts were in the same kerf, even when moving beyond the rip fence, and allowed the shallow cut (very shallow) to be cut "backwards" without the long rip fence prior to hitting the blade.

Even on a slider, you must be prepared for the wood to be pulled forward and up when you first hit the scoring blade, until it reaches the main blade which counteracts the "unnatural" pull. No problem if the wood is firmly clamped to the heavy slider.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Dino, I agree that going forward with a shallow cut on a contractor saw, followed by going forward with a full cut in the same kerf works pretty well - I did it many times when I had a contractor saw before I got the combo machine with the slider... but it isn't the same thing, since the scoring blade enters the face of the wood on the bottom, and exits through the kerf - even less chance for chip-out than a shallow cut moving the work "the right way."
Back in the contractor saw days I had a huge cross-cut sled (a thin sheet of plywood with a long (~6 foot) hardwood bar that rode in the miter slot and a guide at the edge carefully aligned perpendicular to the blade... this provided the stability so both shallow and through cuts were in the same kerf, even when moving beyond the rip fence, and allowed the shallow cut (very shallow) to be cut "backwards" without the long rip fence prior to hitting the blade.
Even on a slider, you must be prepared for the wood to be pulled forward and up when you first hit the scoring blade, until it reaches the main blade which counteracts the "unnatural" pull. No problem if the wood is firmly clamped to the heavy slider.

Charlie.
I find your points excellent.:)

I just don't like to see the Circular Saws work backwards.
You forget one time to adjust the depth of cut and you have a jumping saw in your hands.
I don't trust the $ 0.20 depth lever either.:mad:

[frank shic]

dino, i understand now! thanks for clarifying exactly what the danger is in cutting backwards. after my experience with backwards feeding on the tablesaw i can easily see what would happen if i did the same thing with the circular saw - scary!

nevertheless, i tried what you suggested last night and i still get much more chipout doing a scoring cut forward than if i did a scoring cut backwards. it seems like climb cutting with a circular saw is right up there with climb cutting with a router in terms of hazard but people still do it all the time...

adusting the depth lever on the circular saw is a lot easier than walking around to the front of the table saw and cranking the wheel. in addition, bringing the saw to the workpiece instead of the other way around does give me a greater feeling of security.

thanks for all of your help.