Dado w/ Plough Plane

[Raymond Stanley]

This is a continuation of my search for one plane to start with for doing dados, rabbets, and grooves.

[ see: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=37095]

I have found some very helpful links on making joints by hand:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=10630

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=15517

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=24275

I realize that to use one plane for most joints, I will lose some ease and efficiency.
I am comtemplating getting a Record 044 plow / plough plane, because of it's good price.
A runner-up is a Stanley #46, or possibly a rabbet plane + router plane, which cost more.
Does anybody have any experience cleaning out a cut & chiseled dado with a Record 044? How about making a rabbet that has been cut & chiseled?

Thanks!
Ray

[harry strasil]

Sounds to me like you are trying to make your point the hard way. or are on a quest for planes.

Just scribe the width accuratly with a square and marking knife several times to make it deeper, then using the marking knife or a sharp chisel slice out a chamfer to the line in the waste part, saw to depth, rough out the waste with a chisel and use a router plane for depth.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Like Harry says, a marking knife, saw, chisel and a router plane is the way to go.

If you get a plane to do it, it really needs to be the Stanley #46 because of the skewed cutters. A straight plow of any make is difficult at best and is slow at cutting across the grain.

I don't know how many sizes you really need--only you know that. The greatest flexibility comes from not using a dedicated plane. But the #46 does work well for the width of blades it has. Consider also the side rabbet planes, too, for when the width is a little too narrow due to the cutter width--or for when you have to use a smaller cutter to begin with.

Take care, Mike

[Jake Darvall]

Hi Ray, dado's go accross grain...The record 44 hasn't got nickers so its no good for that.

I feel the record 44's good for with grain plough and even rebate work, but only with the small blades.....what I notice about the 44 when you load it with a wide blade, especially if your fence is referencing a thin edge, because its got only one skate, the unsupported parts of a wide blade will have it pulling the plane off vertical.....ie. basically, I'm trying to say, if you want to plough wider grooves, use a plane with 2 skates, like a stanley 45, or 50.....

By the sound of it you should probably just go buy a stanley 46. Which is what I'm after. One day....Heard its got a good reputation.

:)

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hey, Jake--welcome...

[Derek Cohen]

Yo Jake, welcome!

Ray, you have mentioned three (actually 5!) distinctly different types of joints which only superficially appear the same.

There are two types of drawer grooves, one for through dovetails and another for half-blind dovetails. While these are both cut with the grain, they require different techniques. Ideally, they are require different planes, although you can do wonders with a chisel and a router plane. The #044 has limitations, as Jake notes, but it terrific in the right situation.

The groove for a half-blind dovetail can run the entire length of the board and the open ends can be hidden inside the drawer sides. Therefore it is OK to use a plough plane for this. Name your poison: a Record #044 is terrific here.

The groove for a through dovetail must stop short of the end of the board, otherwise it will be seen as a gap in a dovetail. While one can plug it with wood, this is inelegant. The better method is to cut a groove that stops short of the end of the board. You cannot use a plough plane to do this. The better method is a scored line, chisel, and router plane. This is actually a very easy method although it sounds complex (I can supply a pictorial sequence if you wish).

<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Chips.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

The dado is a groove that runs across the grain. Using a plough plane without a nicker, or failing to score the walls of the dado beforehand with a knife, will lead to terrible tearout. The ideal plane has nickers and a skew blade. The Stanley #46 was designed for this. At Stanley #45 can be pressed into service - while it does not have a skew blade, it can nicker both sides of the blade. The result is a little rougher surface, but this is hidden inside the dado.

<I>#043, #044, #45, #46</I>
<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Ploughx4.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

There are two types of rabbets. There is a rabbet that runs with the grain. Use either a Stanley #78 or a Record #778 (better) for this. Then there is a rabbet that runs across the grain. You ideally need a skew bladed plane for this. The Stanley #289 was designed for this (expensive). I have a wooden ECE filletster.

<I>Record #778</I>
<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/image016.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

<I>ECE filletster (before I cleaned it up)</I>
<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/ECEMovingFilletster1.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

I must add one more plane here if you plan to cut these joints: get a Stanley #79 side rabbet plane or the #98/99 combination (sold by LN or Stanley). They are essential for widening grooves and dados (the only plane that can do so).

<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/LN98-99.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Wenzloff]

Just a note...there are also wood side rabbet planes which work well for widening cross/with grain housings--at least for through dados or rabbets.

Take care, Mike

[Raymond Stanley]

Fantastic Info...Thanks! I'm learning lots...and constantly changing my mind on which plane to buy next. Good thing I've got project that don't require joints to keep my busy until I have decided and have the $. It is great to see all the ways people do these different joints.
-Ray

[Raymond Stanley]

so, the #46 works best only for dados? what about grooves and rabbets?
Thanks for the detailed info Derek - I saw your detailed lee valley router review, so I've got a great sequence of photos for that method :)

[Jake Darvall]

Thanks for the welcome Mike and Derek.

Ray....

I gota be careful, cause I don't really own a full stanley 46. But its got characteristics of planes I am familar with.

Its got great spurs that are depth adjustable.....

The only stanley 46 part I have is the sliding skate, and I noticed it has quite a thick sole to it, compared to the narrow skates you get in other planes. Which is good I think for plough work. Thin skates on soft woods can be troublesome. Sometimes the skates cut their own little grooves in the timber, which will bogg down your plane....uno, the shaving will thicken up and of course it will mark your work......I often flattern thicker the soles of skates that I tune for use as plough planes only. Did that with a couple of 50's.

The 46 takes skewed blades as well. A must for cross grain work, but from personal experience I've found them to be more accomidating of tough grain when planing with the grain as well. Which I think is interesting. Plenty of experiements to come with skew blades I reakon.

So, yep. Sounds like THE plane to get. Should be able to cut rabbets and grooves with and accross grain well, I would have thought....but then you'll have to learn how to sharpen its blades :eek: ...may take some practise. :)

boy I've got my eye on that 98 lie-nelson jobby you've got pictured there Derek....a few hints to the wife I think one day. :D

[Raymond Stanley]

Thanks for all the info everybody.
I hope I didn't annoy people by continuing to press for an answer to my question after people gave me one solution - the router plane. I just wanted to make sure that I had a good understanding of how everybody does different things. Everybody's info has been extremely useful.
The philosophy I have adopted is to go for purpose-built planes as long as I can afford it, rather than making some planes work for jobs they aren't intended for. I ended up getting a Stanley #39. Was looking for a woodie but couldn't find one used in the 3/4" width I wanted. Also picked up a Record 044 because it was a good price. I will get a rabbet plane after I do my first project using my own tools, and hand tools for that matter (I prove to my new wife that this $ spent will have its uses for the house). I am going to make some invisible shelves, and maybe a simple bookcase. I will probably end up springing for a new Steve Knight Rabbet plane when the time comes.
Thanks again-
Ray

[Jake Darvall]

Thanks for all the info everybody.

Ray

Pleasure Raymond:) Don't mean to tell you what to do.:o .....but don't forget patience,,,,,they can cause much trouble at first these things.....but their worth it once you've worked it out. goodluck