Jig saw questions

[Bob Childress]

Okay, let the fun begin. :rolleyes:

I am trying to decide on whether to buy the Festool jig saw or Bosch to replace my cheapo B&D. Need to go to the dealers to get a "feel" for the barrel grip versus D handle I guess. Leaning toward Festool due to dust collection capability.

Questions:

Pros and cons of barrel grip vs D handle?
Does Festool DC work pretty well on the jigsaw?
Preference for Bosch or Festool?

I own both brands and have found them both to be quite good.:) Is the Festool worth the $$$ more?:confused:

[Peter Pedisich]

Bob,

For me the Festool was worth the $$, I'll tell you why.

1) More comfortable to hold for extended periods due to it's smaller size and better shape. Barrel grip is better for me for control, but do you like to control speed with trigger during a cut? can't do that with the Trion.

2) The Bosch was equal to the Festool on perpendicularity.

3) The blower on the Bosch did not do much.

4) Dust collection on both was fine above the work (with all the bits in place) but there is the stuff below that just drops to the floor - not a big deal.

5) I use my Trion a lot now and never with the dc hooked up, not worth it in my garage - in a customers house would be different.

6) Festool really does run like a sewing machine.

7) Plug-it cord is great, Bosch does not have this.

8) Festool blades are at least as good as the Bosch blades.

Hope this helps, Good Luck!

Pete

[Steve Clardy]

Bosch D-handle here. Perfectly happy with it.

IF it ever dies, I'll buy another.

[frank shic]

With the money that you save from buying the bosch, you can save up for the overpriced festool circular saw - now wouldn't that make you even happier considering you'll get a superior and striaght cut assuming you're also using one of the guided rail systems?

[Mark Rios]

Bosch.

I just don't see DC as a big deal on a jigsaw. It doesn't blow around. Put down a drop cloth and spend the extra money on more tools or a gift for the wife.

I really like my Bosch and would buy another.

[Peter Pedisich]

spend the extra money on more tools or a gift for the wife.

:D maybe that's my problem! Great answer, Mark!:D

[Mark Singer]

The major difference is the Bosch speed control is in the trigger ....the meore you squeeze the faster it goes. On the Festool it is a dial on the body of the saw....this gives you no contro; of speed once the cut begins.....this is major! Bosch is the best on jigsaws!
http://nhwoodworker.com/trion/speedcontrolt.jpg (http://nhwoodworker.com/trion/speedcontrolt.jpg)

[Dave Falkenstein]

I replaced an older model Bosch jig saw (before blade guides) with a Festool jig saw about two years ago. The Festool saw cuts square in materials up to 2 inches thick, which was important to me. I have not had an opportunity to use the newer Bosch models with blade guides. I prefer a barrel grip, but I think that is purely personal preference. The Festool saw is very smooth operating, and the blades are excellent and priced competitively (Bosch and Festool blades fit both saws). Some folks find it harder to see the blade on the Festool saw, but again that is personal. I don't use the dust extraction on the Festool saw in my shop, but would find it useful in a clients home making lots of cuts. I think the Festool saw is worth the added cost.

[glenn bradley]

I went for the barrel grip on the Bosch as I've got a bum elbow and "feel" I have more control with it. I do however miss not having the variable speed at my fingertip now and then. The variable on the 1591EVSK is a detented wheel at the rear of the barrel. On the other hand, with the speed set it is very consistent under load and is a pleasure (not a word I used to associate with my 20 year old Skil JS) to use.

[Bob Childress]

Thanks for all the great input! I don't know how I ever made it this far without the Creek:eek:

I should have added some info on applications. I will be cutting a number of countertop openings in the house into essentially 1 1/2 inch thick material (2 layers of 3/4 ply). Sink openings, cooktop opening, more sink openings, etc. I need control and accuracy, plus power to cut that thickness. I am gathering that both saws will fill the bill. True?:confused:

Will the DC be worth it since I am in the house with all this?

[tod evans]

yet another bosch "d" handle user for electric jigsaws..02 tod

[John Hulett]

6) Festool really does run like a sewing machine.


What does that mean? :confused: Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

[Chris Padilla]

Who here has actually good flight time on both saws and can really provide pros/cons?? I have experience with a crappy C-man...and the Festool. It is no contest there but I do know that Bosch makes some mighty fine tools, too.

[Jerry Olexa]

For me, BOSCH is the best....I love mine. Never used a festool.

[Mark Rios]

Who here has actually good flight time on both saws and can really provide pros/cons?? I have experience with a crappy C-man...and the Festool. It is no contest there but I do know that Bosch makes some mighty fine tools, too.


I've touched both, Chris. I own a newer Bosch and I touched a Festool in Woodcraft. That touch cost me $12. I like the Bosch better.

[glenn bradley]

True. I cut some 6/4 maple yesterday, no problem, very smooth on the Bosch. I have no doubt that the Festool is an excellent saw though I have never had the pleasure.

[Peter Pedisich]

What does that mean? :confused: Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

A good thing.

[Chris Barton]

I have used both and own a D-handle Bosch that is about 3 years old. Both are quality, well built machines. Both will do what you need them to do. DC is not a real issue in my mind with jig saws so, I see that as a non-issue. I own a festool AT55e circular saw and it is light years more advanced than anything else on the market at any price. Past the circular saws I don't think Festool has an advantage over Bosch. In fact, the Bosch beat out all other ROS including the Festool in a recent review that was very well done. I haven't priced them lately but, I am pretty sure you could get the Bosch for half the price of the Festool. Unless it's more important to be sporting the high dollar name in your shop (like the guys and gals that have to drive a certain car, etc...) then I can't give you a decent reason to buy the Festool over the Bosch, and would challange anyone to provide one.

[Chris Padilla]

I think it is nice that the DC on the Festool can keep the cut line clear so you don't have to blow it off yourself. Does the Bosch keep the cut line clear? If so, then I have no clue if the F garnishes the preimum.

[Off-Topic Reply Here]
Chris, you should go and more carefully review that ROS write-up. As I recall, and I could be wrong, there was some question if they used and reported the results of the Festool with Festool's unique 9-hole sanding disc. Also, did they only use the 125 ROS? I don't remember.
[Off-Topic Reply Done]

[Fred Woodward]

I've used the barrel handle Bosch for about 15 years and cut out a gazillion (seemed like that many) sinks and cook tops in MDF and double ply 3/4" with great results. Never a single failure of the saw. Re-lubed and greased it a few times over that course of time but never replaced any parts. Bought the newer version last year just because it had the blade guides and different blade release (and because I wanted a new tool :D) and a bit more power. The newer version is stronger than the older one but my old Bosch still has much life left in it.
As for DC, most of the countertop work I did with the Bosch was new construction so DC wasn't much of an issue during the job. On service calls, the DC could possibly be a benefit. The blower for clearing dust from in front of the blade on my Bosch saws has always worked well when the saws were kept relatively clean.
I've handled the Festool but haven't purchased it. Feels good and has great balance, but.....
I think I'll save my money for some of their other tools. The Bosch jigsaw has saved me many times and never let me down.
Just my .02

[Peter Pedisich]

I think it is nice that the DC on the Festool can keep the cut line clear so you don't have to blow it off yourself. Does the Bosch keep the cut line clear? If so, then I have no clue if the F garnishes the preimum.

I had the Bosch and returned it for the Festool (ergonomic reasons, not a performance problem)
The Bosch has a blower, the Festool does not.
I can't see much on the Festool when the plastic pc is attached for dc, so I leave it off.
In the end, I think if the Bosch is comfortable for you then there is no need to spend more.
Both are excellent, don't forget the Makita! it's a great one also.

[Chris Barton]

I think it is nice that the DC on the Festool can keep the cut line clear so you don't have to blow it off yourself. Does the Bosch keep the cut line clear? If so, then I have no clue if the F garnishes the preimum.

[Off-Topic Reply Here]
Chris, you should go and more carefully review that ROS write-up. As I recall, and I could be wrong, there was some question if they used and reported the results of the Festool with Festool's unique 9-hole sanding disc. Also, did they only use the 125 ROS? I don't remember.
[Off-Topic Reply Done]

Hi Chris,

They didn't use the Festool sandpaper because they wanted a true controlled experiment across all units and so they used a single maker and grit for all sanders. The Bosch won on the smoothness of the results and sanding pattern on their test surface, plexiglass which I thought was a really innovative way to examine sanding patterns. I don't recall which unit they tested but, there were many sanders that were excluded including my favorite PC 6" VS-ROS. Still, in my book, it looks like the Bosch won their comparison. I like and own Festool products, just not all of them. This is because I do believe they make excellent gear. However, I don't think they are the best in market in every application. >$300 for a ROS would have to top all contenders and I don't think Festool sells any powered product below that cut line...

[Chris Padilla]

Hi Chris,

They didn't use the Festool sandpaper because they wanted a true controlled experiment across all units and so they used a single maker and grit for all sanders. The Bosch won on the smoothness of the results and sanding pattern on their test surface, plexiglass which I thought was a really innovative way to examine sanding patterns. I don't recall which unit they tested but, there were many sanders that were excluded including my favorite PC 6" VS-ROS. Still, in my book, it looks like the Bosch won their comparison. I like and own Festool products, just not all of them. This is because I do believe they make excellent gear. However, I don't think they are the best in market in every application. >$300 for a ROS would have to top all contenders and I don't think Festool sells any powered product below that cut line...

I understand wanting a level playing field but the Festool was handicapped in their testing because the sander and paper were designed to work together. It is quite possbile that without F paper, the F ROS might not perform very well--I honestly don't know--I've only used F paper with my F ROSs.

[Bob Childress]

With the money that you save from buying the bosch, you can save up for the overpriced festool circular saw - now wouldn't that make you even happier considering you'll get a superior and striaght cut assuming you're also using one of the guided rail systems?

Actually Frank, I am saving up to buy the not-yet-priced Festool Domino.:rolleyes:

[Bob Childress]

Well, went this afternoon and "test drove" both machines. Based on everyone's comments and my own "feel" with them in my hand, I will purchase the Bosch 1590 D handle. :D My hands are pretty small and I just couldn't get comfortable with the barrel, even though I would have liked to have been able to. There is a D/C kit available for the Bosch if I find I need it.

Everyone's comments were right on point (except perhaps for a little nudging back and forth over the ROS review).;) I still think Festool is a class act and I will certainly buy other of their tools (can you say Domino?). But for my application and usage level, the Bosch seems to be a better fit this time.

Thanks to all of you and feel free to keep on "discussing" the issues if you like.:rolleyes:

[jonathan snyder]

I have cut a couple of countertop sink openings with my Bosch with no trouble at all.

I have never udes any of the festool products, they sure look nice though!

I sure which ever one you end up with will work just fine!

Jonathan
I'm off for a weekend of fishing!!!!!

[Per Swenson]

I see you have made your decision.

Good for you.

Now, I own both jigsaws.

I pick up the festool with the festool sawblades everytime.

Because there is no blade drift and a absolute smooth and square cut

in hardwood 2 1/2 inch's thick. My bosch can't do that.

Great saw though. Bt the way, my Father has a antique scintilla.

blades are a problem, but that one is a jewel.

Per

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Well satisfied with the Bosch D handle--no reason to try anything else. :D

[Dave Falkenstein]

...In fact, the Bosch beat out all other ROS including the Festool in a recent review that was very well done...

Chris - that test was poorly done on the Festool sander, IMHO. I corresponded with both Festool and Fine Woodworking magazine about the way the Festool ROS was tested. Bottom line - the test was done with 8 hole paper, hampering the effectiveness of the Festool dust collection system, negatively impacting the "aggressiveness" of the sander. There was a thread here at SMC that discussed the ROS test about three weeks ago:

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=38870

[Bob Childress]

Thanks again for all the input! Just to wrap up, the Bosch 1590EVS came home with me this morning. Think I got a pretty good deal: $157 at the Blue BORG (same price as Amazon) and included 2 12" Irwin Quik Clamps in the kit. :D

Let the cutting begin.:p

[Dave Falkenstein]

... I don't recall which unit they tested but, there were many sanders that were excluded including my favorite PC 6" VS-ROS....

...However, I don't think they are the best in market in every application. >$300 for a ROS would have to top all contenders and I don't think Festool sells any powered product below that cut line...

Chris - Just to get the information straight, the Fine Woodworking magazine test was all 5" ROS, not 6".

The Festool sander tested was the ES125, which sells for $165 (way under $300):

http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=7&prodid=571568

[Chris Barton]

Chris - Just to get the information straight, the Fine Woodworking magazine test was all 5" ROS, not 6".

The Festool sander tested was the ES125, which sells for $165 (way under $300):

http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=7&prodid=571568



Hi Dave,

You are right about that price and unit (ES125 @ $165+ S&H & taxes). However, I remained very unconvinced about the need for the proprietary sandpaper and would suggest, as a man of science, that if all the units are not run with identical conditions, including paper, the test would not have been valid. This being said, I also know that some "Festoolians" have a very difficult time ever considering the idea that any other tool can be better in a given class than the Festool. One of the challanges with this idea is that it rather embraces the notion that if their tools are not coupled with all of their armamentarium of options and branded supplies then they really can't be compared to other tools. I'd still go with the Bosch.

Addendum: I just was looking at reviews at the Festool site and interestingly it was beaten out by the PC and Ridgid but, was named "readers choice" (http://www.festoolusa.com/Web_files/taunton_2006_tg.pdf)

[Jerry Olexa]

You'll like your new BOSCH!! I love mine

[Dave Falkenstein]

Hi Dave,

You are right about that price and unit (ES125 @ $165+ S&H & taxes). However, I remained very unconvinced about the need for the proprietary sandpaper and would suggest, as a man of science, that if all the units are not run with identical conditions, including paper, the test would not have been valid. This being said, I also know that some "Festoolians" have a very difficult time ever considering the idea that any other tool can be better in a given class than the Festool. One of the challanges with this idea is that it rather embraces the notion that if their tools are not coupled with all of their armamentarium of options and branded supplies then they really can't be compared to other tools. I'd still go with the Bosch.

Addendum: I just was looking at reviews at the Festool site and interestingly it was beaten out by the PC and Ridgid but, was named "readers choice" (http://www.festoolusa.com/Web_files/taunton_2006_tg.pdf)

Chris - In my email exchanges with Fine Woodworking magazine, the article author, Andy Engel, told the FWW editor, "I've used Festool's own disks and found them be roughly equivalent to the 3X disks in quality". So the author could have used Festool's 9-hole paper, gotten the designed intent of dust extraction, and still had a perfectly valid test.

In addition, the Festool sander has a small sanding stroke, making it ideal as a finish sander, and not intended to hog off material quickly. The other sanders most likely do not have the same sanding stroke, although that information was not included in the article. Even though the Festool sander is a finish sander, being run with 8-hole paper, it rated almost as high as the Bosch in stock removal with dust extraction (11g vs 13g). Imagine how well it would have done if the dust extraction had been in operation as intended. Comparing finish sanders to more aggressive sanders is hardly objective.

I remain convinced that the test was flawed insofar as the Festool sander is concerned. I am a pretty objective person, and don't own the ES125 sander. I just like to see tests run objectively, and reported accurately.

BTW, S&H on any order over $150 is free from Festool.

[Mark Rios]

Thanks again for all the input! Just to wrap up, the Bosch 1590EVS came home with me this morning. Think I got a pretty good deal: $157 at the Blue BORG (same price as Amazon) and included 2 12" Irwin Quik Clamps in the kit. :D

Let the cutting begin.:p



OH NO, BOB!!! You bought the Bosch??? Boy, was that the wrong decision. What were you thinking? :D :D :D

Just teasing.....It's a great tool. Congrats on the Jigsaw AND the double EXTRA bonus of the clamps. WTG!

[Chris Barton]

Chris - In my email exchanges with Fine Woodworking magazine, the article author, Andy Engel, told the FWW editor, "I've used Festool's own disks and found them be roughly equivalent to the 3X disks in quality". So the author could have used Festool's 9-hole paper, gotten the designed intent of dust extraction, and still had a perfectly valid test.

In addition, the Festool sander has a small sanding stroke, making it ideal as a finish sander, and not intended to hog off material quickly. The other sanders most likely do not have the same sanding stroke, although that information was not included in the article. Even though the Festool sander is a finish sander, being run with 8-hole paper, it rated almost as high as the Bosch in stock removal with dust extraction (11g vs 13g). Imagine how well it would have done if the dust extraction had been in operation as intended. Comparing finish sanders to more aggressive sanders is hardly objective.

I remain convinced that the test was flawed insofar as the Festool sander is concerned. I am a pretty objective person, and don't own the ES125 sander. I just like to see tests run objectively, and reported accurately.

BTW, S&H on any order over $150 is free from Festool.

Hi Dave,

We have "hijacked" this thread enough. If you would like to continue a spirited exchange in the best of humors, perhaps we should consider starting a new thread.

[Corey Hallagan]

Bob I think you will like the Bosch. I bought the 1951 which is the barrel handle model and I love it. Having moved up from numerous B&D and other cheapies myself, I couldn't believe how nice it is and what a difference it makes. Don't forget to get the Bosch blades. They make as much difference as the jigsaw does in my opinion.
Corey

[Dave Falkenstein]

Hi Dave,

We have "hijacked" this thread enough. If you would like to continue a spirited exchange in the best of humors, perhaps we should consider starting a new thread.

Chris - Nah - I think we have beat this horse stone cold dead. No intent to hijack.

[James Ayars]

Bob, my 1590 was the first "expensive" power tool I bought. It replaced a B&D that I wore out in about a year. I let two of my skeptical(A jig saw is a jig saw) friends try it and within a month, both had also bought 1590's. It's a great piece of machinery.
James