White Maple!

[Byron Trantham]

I have had my first [and only] experience with White Maple. I am building a project from birch plywood and Maple hardwood elements. What a disappointment. There are splotches everywhere. Looks like I spilled stain and didn't wipe it off. It also burns like crazy when you saw it. I built a cheery cabinet about a year ago and didn't have anywhere near the problems with blotching. Has anyone else had this experience with White Maple?

[Scott Loven]

Are you talking hard or soft maple? I have stained both and have not had problems with blotching on either. What kind of stain are you using?
Scott

[Byron Trantham]

Are you talking hard or soft maple? I have stained both and have not had problems with blotching on either. What kind of stain are you using?
Scott

Scott, I forgot to mention it is soft maple. I am using MinWax oil based stain. I attached a pic to show the problem. It looks like something was spilled on it. I am wondering if maybe soemthing did [before I got it]. The more I look at it, the more I am convinced that soemthing did get spilled on it. It sure didn't come from me. Very disconcerting.

[Kyle Kraft]

I'm looking forward to the replies on this one, as I just sawed up a huge hard maple from my yard into project lumber. Won't actually be machining any of it 'till it's fully air dried in a year or so.

[Byron Trantham]

I'm looking forward to the replies on this one, as I just sawed up a huge hard maple from my yard into project lumber. Won't actually be machining any of it 'till it's fully air dried in a year or so.

Kyle, I don't think you are going to have a problem. As I said earlier, it looks like something got spilled on the wood. I have no idea what or when but the marks look like a liquid not a natural event like grain differences. I am so disgusted. This project has been one heck of a problem from day one. I guess we all run into it once in a while.

[Russ Massery]

I found it much easier to use dye on maple. Maple can be a real PITA to stain especially with oil base stains

[Byron Trantham]

I found it much easier to use dye on maple. Maple can be a real PITA to stain especially with oil base stains

Really? Do you think that my problem is wood rather than "spills"? There are so many splotches that it just doesn't seem likely that I or someone else created so many spills. My wife hasn't seen the result yet and I am dreading it!:o

[Dave Tinley]

Byron-
yes, soft maple will do that, especially with minwax stain. Soft maple is mostly used as a paint grade materials in projects, but I have seen some really nice furniture made from it. As mentioned earlier a dye will give you the best color and evenness. You could also apply a seal coat of shellac and that will help .
Dave

[Mark Pruitt]

Byron, have you applied a finish coat over the stain yet?

[Scott Loven]

You should have been able to see it on the wood before you started if it was stained. I have used dried wood that has stains that run deep and cant be milled/sanded out. It looks like you could sand the top and re-stain. It looks to me like you have some saw burn marks, and some rough saw marks that weren't removed before you stained. Did you run it through a plainer and joiner before you started?

[Byron Trantham]

Byron, have you applied a finish coat over the stain yet?
Yep! It's too late!

[Nick Clayton]

just pm'd you

[glenn bradley]

That has got to be so disappointing, I feel for you. I agree that the pattern looks like nothing natural. Any chance of stripping and trying a sanding sealer? A drastic fix might be to veneer the top.

[Tim Solley]

As Russ said, dyes work much better on maple than oil based stains. I learned that the hard way myself. Using a dye is now standard operating procedure for me when working with maple.

Now, if it were indeed some kind of man made problem with the wood and even dyes don't work, I would think that a finish with the stain in it would work well (a toner). When I did a project made of soft maple, I used Minwax Polyshades. It's poly with the stain mixed right in. While I'm not a huge fan of poly, it actually worked out okay. It works because the color just sits on top of the wood, and no splotches. The down side is that if you have a scratch that goes deep enough to penetrate the poly, it goes through the color too. Of course, you could make your own toner. I used Polyshades because I didn't know squat about finishing at the time.

Good luck with the project. If you take any corrective action, let us know how it goes. I'm curious about this one.

Tim

[Jake Helmboldt]

Take the time and effort to strip it. And then use water-based dye. We just redid the kitchen and I stained all of the cabinet carcasses (hard maple) and had considerable blotching. I resanded, and refinished with dye and had much better results.

However, even then you have to really take care with uneven sanding and machining marks. There were planer marks that I didn't see or feel but which appeared once I put dye/finish on them.

Jake

[Chris Padilla]

Velvit Oil is a wiping varnish that I love using...especially on maple as it always comes out wonderful. I won't touch Minwax with a 10' pole--ask Todd Burch about that! :)

Strip it and start over...do you have any scrap leftover you could experiment with, Byron?

[john whittaker]

Byron...I have experience with maple. Others here have got it right IMHO.

Personally, I like to keep maple light to amber in color....but if you want to make maple dark as you show in your pic, aniline dye is the way I do it. I use water based dye and raise the grain first.

I tried adding the dye to a wash coat of shellac to simplify the process...and it works, but raising the grain with water first, then sanding with 150 - 180 grit, then applying water based dye directly on the maple worked better for me. Some put a wash coat of shellac down before dying the wood. This might help the blotching more but the wood will get darker without it. After dying, put a sealer coat of shellac over it and then finish as desired. If you do a search there are plenty of articles on "staining maple a dark color".

FYI - aniline dye has a much smaller molecule than stains and can penetrate the tight grain of maple much better and consistently than a stain.

[lou sansone]

Something doesn't seem right here. I have used tons of soft maple and never seen something like this. yes I do always use dye, but still... those blotches are really strange looking.

Byron did you start with rough sawn material or was it already dimensioned and plained down to the final thickness? Where did you get it from if you don't mind me asking. As far as soft maple being paint grade material, the lower grades are, but FAS and tiger are not considered paint grade at all. maple can be hard to stain because it is quite dense, and sometimes you have to work the dye into it as well. For may tiger pieces, I always double dye with a sand back in between for that reason.

What does the other side of the board look like ? have you also seen the same spots on that side as well

lou

[Byron Trantham]

Something doesn't seem right here. I have used tons of soft maple and never seen something like this. yes I do always use dye, but still... those blotches are really strange looking.

Byron did you start with rough sawn material or was it already dimensioned and plained down to the final thickness? Where did you get it from if you don't mind me asking. As far as soft maple being paint grade material, the lower grades are, but FAS and tiger are not considered paint grade at all. maple can be hard to stain because it is quite dense, and sometimes you have to work the dye into it as well. For may tiger pieces, I always double dye with a sand back in between for that reason.

What does the other side of the board look like ? have you also seen the same spots on that side as well

lou

Lou, I bought it form JC Forrest Products. This is the first time I have used Maple. I have never had a problem with their products. I think I just goofed. I called them and they are willing to "work with me". I wanted Birch in the first place but they were out [they do have 5/4 in stock]. This whole project has been a problem from day one. I guess it happens. Yes, the blotches are on both sides of the material. Also, this is the first time I have purchased pre-planed wood. I was wondering if their planner had a problem but after reading all these responses, I think I just used the wrong product. Mt wife went through all the pieces this morning and she kept several. I'm falling back to the carcass for now. BTW, this is the second go-around for the carcass as well!:mad: My first time, $200 worth, had defects in the veneer and also blotched. I found out later that the material bought was actually called "Birch and Maple"!!! I couldn't believe it! I will never ever buy any wood from a Big Box store again! I already re-bought the Birch plywood. Anyway, I am so disgusted that I am staring over - a $300 lesson learned the hard way.

[lou sansone]

hi byron
well if the blotches are on both sides of the same board, that sort of rules out the possibility that something got spilled on it. sure is strange looking. I remember visiting a very large commercial mill a few years ago and noticed the workers spraying something on each and every board as it came off the saw to prevent some form of staining ( something like blue stain in pine, but this was poplar that was being processed). Maybe the primary mill was using some material for its maple to keep it degrading during the drying process.

what would be interesting is if you are planning on redoing the top anyway, is to sand it down and try dying it and seeing if you get the same blotching .


best wishes

lou