Wild Idea Project

[harry strasil]

Not sure exactly how to do this type of thing, Never done anything like this before online, will try to keep it all under one thread. So here goes. We will take it slow.

TOOLS NEEDED,

1. Crosscut and Rip saws, 1 ea.
2. Dovetail saw or small Backsaw
3. Planes, Jack and Fore or Jointer, Block and Router
4. Rule, Square, Bevel square
5. 3/4 inch chisel
6. Marking knife
7. Small Mallet
8. 1/4 and 3/8 augers or drill bits
9. Pencil
10. Spoke shave or Sanding block


MATERIAL

2 by 8 or 10 - desired length and species, 4 ft long if you desire to utilize it as a chopping bench also. (I am going to use a piece of Old Growth Salvaged Pine 2by10)

3/4 inch boards to be determined later (I will again use old growth salvage)

Part 1 will be posted Friday night hopefully, Will include text and pictures little at a time.

If you don't have some tools, you can improvise with what you have available, but a Router Plane is a must as you will see. It will be utilized as a marking gauge as well as a router, as a marking gauge will not work for this project.

I will try to use more modern cordless tools than I do at demos for your convienience.

[Mark Rios]

Okay...I'm going to play here, if you'll let me, because I think that it will be a very valuable experience for me. But, I'm not sure about some of these tools.

1) My very old Sandvik 10 point is in tooooo bad of shape to be of any use. Can I use my cordless (battery) saw?

2) Dovetail saw? You're joking right? Are we actually cutting dovetails? I would have NO idea how to do that. I barely recognize the shape. Can you tell me what I should buy?

4) No problem here. Lots of each.

5) Lot's of chisels.

6) What's a marking knife???????

7) I have over 40 hammers but no mallet. Can I use a dead blow hammer for a mallet?

8) Drill bits and Cordless drill okay?

9) Alright, let's see.....okay, I've got a pencil.

10) I think that if I held a spokeshave I'd cut myself. I'll go with a sanding block if that's okay.


I'm looking forward to this very much. But if I'm going to be asking too many questions because of my lack of experience then PLEASE tell me and I'll just watch from the sidelines.

Thanks very much.

[harry strasil]

Mark, this project is all held together by dovetails and pegs,no glue, screws nails or other metal fasteners. almost everything has a taper to it and involves close hand fitting the joints. I don't think you will be able to use a battey powered cordless saw with enough accuracy. I will lay out the tools I am going to use and take a picture.

If you do not wish to participate at this time no problem the thread will always be there to look at and as you acquire neander tools and develop your skill with them you can do the project at your leisure.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Harry/Junior

I applaud you for taking the time and effort to provide such a great opportunity for our members. I'll talk with the powers that be and see if we can find a sensible way to keep this thread on the first page of the Neanderthal forum without resorting to using a "sticky". I'd really hate to see it get buried weeks or months down the road.

[Mark Rios]

Mark, this project is all held together by dovetails and pegs,no glue, screws nails or other metal fasteners. almost everything has a taper to it and involves close hand fitting the joints. I don't think you will be able to use a battey powered cordless saw with enough accuracy. I will lay out the tools I am going to use and take a picture.

If you do not wish to participate at this time no problem the thread will always be there to look at and as you acquire neander tools and develop your skill with them you can do the project at your leisure.


Aaaahhh man!!!!!.....I'm not even basic enough for a Basic class. :D Well, I better find out where I can learn to do them then.

[Frank Fusco]

UHhhh....wats the wild idea? :confused:

[Jamey Amrine]

Mark,

Go to Ace, buy a straight-handled dovetail saw. They are cheap. They are less than perfect, but so will be your first (several) sets of dovetails. A saw like this will set you back $10 and will work fine in pine. It might bind a bit in a softwood, but for what i believe Harry is proposing, it will get you through.

As for the panel saws, learn to sharpen your current saw (not hard, and worth learning) or buy an old Disston. If you can't find one locally, look on this and other forums and post a WTB. You will get multiple offers. Really, the same goes for a backsaw suitable for dovetailing. None of these will be expensive.

A brace and bits for drilling is another inexpensive batch of tools available on the forums, on ebay, or locally.

A marking knife can be an Exacto. That's what I use. A utility knife will also work, but can get tight in places like dovetail marking.

A deadblow hammer will work. I use a mallet made from a bowling pin turned on the lathe (they're maple, ya'know). Go to your local lanes and ask for old pins. They will give you more than you can carry for free. Just be careful getting that plastic off.

It ain't the chariot, it's the horse that pulls it.

-Jamey

[harry strasil]

Mark, I don't want you to feel left out, using neander tools is more and watch and ask questions way of learning, I had no one to teach me, so I ended up learning on my own and then when I started demoing neander tools I got input from old timers who had actually done this type of work.

It might be too difficult a project to start with, but it is something that will make shavings and hopefully increase skill. One of the first demoes I did was for a midwest tool collectors meeting, and it took a bit of talking to get me to do it, and then I almost backed out at the last momemnt, I made lots of mistakes as I was so nervous. But as I found out just because a person collects tools does not necessarily mean they are adapt in their use.

Anyone is welcome to watch and correct me if I make a mistake and is free to ask questions at any time. I am just happy that I have a chance at sharing my limited knowledge of old time woodworking with those who are interested.

Remember is better to have tried and been less than successful, than never to have tried at all.

After all its not like you are doing it out in public like I am, if you fail who is to know if you don't tell them.

[harry strasil]

:confused: Volunteering to do this thing, Frank.:eek:

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Well, I'm two tools short (router plane and the necessary bits). Everything else I not only have, but is sharp. Oh, yeah, and I need the wood, because I'm not going to use hickory for this.

I'll carry along as I can until the point when we get to needing the router plane. I don't know when the budget will permmit that, but I'm hoping it's soon. :)

For a dovetail saw, I'd also recommend trying the house brand ones from Japan Woodworker (the shorter dozuki, model # 18.150.0) (http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=18.150.0&dept_id=13085). $32.75, but way better than the $10 saw.

[John Timberlake]

I game to try. Hope my travel schedule will allow enough time for the mistake to be corrected. And I will use as many Neander tools as possible. Just waiting for the project description.

[Brett Baldwin]

Sounds like fun Harry. I'm short a few things but I'll improvise or acquire what I need.

[Dan Forman]

MATERIAL

2 by 8 or 10 - desired length and species, 4 ft long if you desire to utilize it as a chopping bench also. (I am going to use a piece of Old Growth Salvaged Pine 2by10)



Harry---First off, whats a chopping bench? If a chopping bench is not desired, then how long should the 2x10 be? Can we use ordinary construction lumber (which will presumably not be fully dry)? Can you post a picture of something close to what you intend to have us build so that we know what we're getting into ahead of time? Thanks.

Dan

[Mark Rios]

First off, whatever I buy on the list is a tool that I haven't used before i.e., dovetail saw, router plane, jack, fore, or jointer plane. Just tell me what I need to buy.

Anyone like this saw set-up?

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=41718&cat=1,42884

Or this one?

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=51869&cat=1,42884
Seems like this might be handy for cutting a dovetial for me.

Or is a more traditional backsw, like Deidre mentioned, be better suited to learn with.


I forgot to include #3) in my previous list:

3) I have a block plane (my new LN thanks to you folks). A jack plane is a No. 5, right? A fore plane is a No. 6 and a jointer is a 7 or 8. I can probably learn to use either of these relatively quickly (albeit perhaps not super good right away :D ) but a router plane would probably be quite a learning curve for me.

If I understand correctly, the plane requirements are a jack plane (no. 5), a block plane, a router plane, and EITHER a no. 6, 7, or 8. Is that correct?


Thanks for your help.

[Larry Gelder]

Mark,

You can do it! We'll learn together and play nice.

[harry strasil]

This thing is getting more complicated quickly. I have no idea what plane numbers go with what metal planes as I only have a couple of them and never use them except for some of the more specialized ones.

As for recommendations for purchasing tools, I will stay out of that discussion, I have no intention of ever purchasing any of the japanese tools as the look awkward and to me are all backwards in the way they work. I just use simple old tools like our forefathers used.

A chopping bench is more or less a small sawtable (sawhorse) looking affair that has holes for using pegs and wedges on one end to hold the work while you set on the bench and either chisel or drill holes, its sometimes called a chair makers bench.

This is what we will be making, I have already started a small saw table inbetween these two, so I will include it as well for those that want a smaller one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/stools.jpg


These are the basic tools I will be using.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/tools.jpg


And this is a factory made Router Plane.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/routerplane.jpg


I don't have any of the modern fancy high dollar modern made tools as I have no need for them, nor can I afford them. A well tuned older tool works just as well. Guess I am to set in my ways and too old fashioned for most.

I plan to introduce the use of a story board or story stick.

[Larry Gelder]

I don't want to discourage student questions, but I'm afraid we'll scare of our 1st instructor if we overwhelm him with questions before we start the project.

Let's commit ourselves to search this forum or the net to find the answer(s) to our questions, and perhaps PM another student, before we post it to Harry.

Agreed?

[Mark Rios]

I don't want to discourage student questions, but I'm afraid we'll scare of our 1st instructor if we overwhelm him with questions before we start the project.

Let's commit ourselves to search this forum or the net to find the answer(s) to our questions, and perhaps PM another student, before we post it to Harry.

Agreed?


I assume you are referring to me there Larry. And that's quite alright, I sincerely appreciate the admonition. However, I was really asking the rest of the group collectively. I apologize if I put Harry on the spot. It was certainly unintentional Harry. I'm just excited and trying to learn. :D :D :D

[harry strasil]

I don't scare that easy, I just got a little heated when I saw the fancy little dovetail jigs. How is one to hone ones hand tool skills and ability when you rely on things othrt than your own hand eye coordination. If I can do it, anybody can as I work with the disadvantage of not having any depth perception with only one eye.

Please forgive my attitude at times, my inability to do much and the hot humid weather are affecting my attitude these days. I think I am turning into an old grouch.

[Jason R Tibbetts]

These are the basic tools I will be using.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/tools.jpg


Harry, what's the tool in between the crosscut and backsaws? (front row, third from right)?

[harry strasil]

Take down toolbox Framing Square in its pouch.

[Dan Forman]

Harry---Thanks for the pics.

Dan

[jonathan snyder]

Harry,

Sounds like a fun project! This is going to be a great thread to follow. I would love to participate, but dont even come close to having the required tools, and certainly dont have the skills to use them even if I had them.

Kudos for wanting to pass along your neander skills and help out others.

Jonathan

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

A jack is a #5 (or 5-1/4 or 5-1/2), right.

I have a Stanley #5 (probably be parting with it soon) and a LN 5-1/2 I just got used.

[Jeff Horton]

.....I don't have any of the modern fancy high dollar modern made tools as I have no need for them, nor can I afford them. A well tuned older tool works just as well. ....

Harry, I love that line because it is so true!

I have been watching with interest to see what you were up to. I have seen your bench before and decided I wanted to build a couple. Now that I know what your up to I am going to have to find a REAL router now. Of course the biggest challenge is finding a peice of wood around here worthy of this project. No small task!

[James Mittlefehldt]

I have the tools, I have the technology fire away Harry.

[Jasper Homminga]

:D
Brilliant, this thread is just brilliant. I was going to knock up a quick sawhorse, now I'll use it as training.
Brilliant Harry.

Jasper (virtual apprentice:))

[Bob Hallowell]

I am new to this forum, I normally post on another but the traffic over there has been very light as of late. I have been reading the treads over here for awhile and figured this was a good time to jump in.

I have most all tools that are needed with the exception of the brace bits. I have the brace just not the bits.
I have a stanley 71 router but it only has the 3/8 striaght blade and is the model that does not have depth stop, is that ok. I have not used it since I got it.

I have some utility grade 8\4 oak I will use.

Thanks,
Bob

[harry strasil]

That's find Bob, just jump right in, you can use twist drills or whatever you have, this project is for you the ppeple of the Haven, my posts are just a guideline to using neander tools to work with.

Have fun.

[James Mittlefehldt]

I am new to this forum, I normally post on another but the traffic over there has been very light as of late. I have been reading the treads over here for awhile and figured this was a good time to jump in.

I have most all tools that are needed with the exception of the brace bits. I have the brace just not the bits.
I have a stanley 71 router but it only has the 3/8 striaght blade and is the model that does not have depth stop, is that ok. I have not used it since I got it.

I have some utility grade 8\4 oak I will use.

Thanks,
Bob

Bob according to something I once saw in a Lee Valley catalogue you can use forstner drill bits in a brace, I have tried it and it works quite well, so if you happen to have those you are set.

James

[harry strasil]

didn't know they made forstner bits that small, but forstner bits were origianlly made to be used in a brace, I have only found 2 originals so far.

[Bob Hallowell]

I have some small ones but they are round at the bottom where the go in the drill I will figure something out. Maby some sall spade bits

Bob

[James Mittlefehldt]

I have some small ones but they are round at the bottom where the go in the drill I will figure something out. Maby some sall spade bits

Bob

Mine are round to Bob and the brace grips them just fine. I should add they are the Lee Valley set ofsixteen up to one inch.