220v Power Strip?

[Tom Hamilton]

Hi Creekers: Now that I'm running two machines on 220, bandsaw and tablesaw, the switching the plug routine is getting a little old. I anticipate a cyclone in the next year or so and that will require a second circuit. I can live with the plug switch dance until then...but since I use power strips thoroughout my shop for 110, I'm wondering about a power strip for 220.

I''ve not seen any jump out at me at the Borg and I have not been to a real electrical supply house.

Are they available?:confused:

Can I make one? :rolleyes:

Is this safe?:eek:

Tom, in Houston, wondering if he wants to mess with 220?

[Jeff Sudmeier]

It won't be to code, but you could do it. You would just have to make sure not to run both machines at once! I wouldn't think of putting the cyclone on it as well because it needs to run at the same time as the machines...

[Howard Acheson]

A 220 volt power stip would not be to most codes and UL would not approve it. Therefore, you will not find a pre-made power strip.

You can make your own by wiring a double duplex box with two 240 volt receptacles. Size the wire and the receptacles and plug for the amperage of the circuit you plan to plug it into.

[Kyle Kraft]

Don't forget, when quoting "the code" please state chapter and verse!:)

[Al Willits]

I found some 10ga power cable at menards and bought a 50' chunk of it, added the male end to plug into my one 220 outlet, then about every 8 foot I installed a 2x4 220 outlet box.

At 10ga you could run more than one device at a time, but in my case it was just to keep from doing what your going though, and I doubt I'll have more than one going at the same time.

Code? maybe, maybe not, but it will work safely.

Al who thinks our inspectors probably wouldn't know anyway....

[Rob Russell]

Don't forget, when quoting "the code" please state chapter and verse!:)


:D :D :D :D :D



It won't be to code, but you could do it. You would just have to make sure not to run both machines at once! I wouldn't think of putting the cyclone on it as well because it needs to run at the same time as the machines...

Why wouldn't it be to "code"? The NEC applies to the premises wiring and generally not the actual cord-and-plug connected load.

Rob

[Kyle Kraft]

Ya know Rob, thats what I love about this forum...most everyone has pretty thick skin and a good sense of humor!!!:) :) :) :D

[Al Willits]

Not sure about where your at, but the locals can add to the national code here, so according to code, may mean different things to different area's.

So, codes could affect almost any wiring, depending on area.

Al who lives in Minn, where there's a code for everything...:)

[Rob Russell]

Al,

You're correct that the local areas can and do modify the code. It's not impossible, but it is unlikely that they would do so to add provisions for cord-and-plug connected equipment.

As an example, most of us should be glad we don't live in Chicago, where the local codes prohibit the use of "Romex" - all wiring is done in conduit.

Rob

[Al Willits]

Rob, we're close here, anything under ground level I believe has to be in conduit, not sure as what little expertise I have, is in HVAC and Nat gas piping.


I've discovered every time I have an inspector out, my property taxes go up, so I avoid them like the plague.:)

Anyway, the extension cord I made will handle quite a bit of amp draw, more than enough to handle what I have, and all the connections are at least 20 amp, so running one unit at a time should be no problem.

Al

[Jim Becker]

You can make a safe and usable break-out box for this using appropriate materials. That said, it really is "better" to just switch the plugs an have a cord on each tool long enough to do the job. That way, you absolutely insure that you don't "accidentally" run both tools simultaneously.

[Brad Townsend]

I went to an electric supply house and ordered some of these:
http://assets.twacomm.com/assets/1814301107/product_images/19038.jpg
Leviton 5028 apparently made for the Canadian market.

Might not be code in the U.S., but works for me in a one person shop. I can't run more than one machine at a time anyway.

[Tom Jones III]

Leviton 5028 apparently made for the Canadian market.


Interesting ... I went to leviton's site and poked around.

The model 5028 is $5.97

I found model 5662 for $15.52
http://www.levitonproducts.com/catalog/model_5662.htm?sid=2BDEDDC7F616DA964BE1365EC73D6E8 A&pid=1208

How is 5028 different than 5662? You must get 3x the horsepower if you use the more expensive receptacle.

Model 5292 has once plug 120v and one plug 240v in the same dual receptacle.

Model 8600 is pretty normal, 15a 240V but it is $24! It is hospital grade, anyone know what that means?

[Lee DeRaud]

Model 8600 is pretty normal, 15a 240V but it is $24! It is hospital grade, anyone know what that means?Probably guaranteed non-sparking so you can use it around oxygen tents etc.

[Rick Christopherson]

Not sure about where your at, but the locals can add to the national code here, so according to code, may mean different things to different area's.

So, codes could affect almost any wiring, depending on area.

Al who lives in Minn, where there's a code for everything...:) Al, You are correct that a local jurisdiction can augment the NEC, however, even though you didn't say that this is a code violation in Minnesota, I can nonetheless assure you that it is not. I have been a consultant in the temporary power distribution industry (in MN) for about 20 years, and power drops similar to what was described are commonplace. As a matter of fact, I have yet to find a state in the country where this type of equipment is prohibited (not even Chicago!!:D). I have had projects (including inspections) in about half the states in the country.

This misinformation stems from a very old myth that you can't have two, 240 volt outlets on the same circuit. I thought the myth had died out, but apparrantly it is still out there.

[Rob Russell]

Hospital grade is basically a really heavy duty version of the stuff. UL has standards that have to be met in order for things like receptacles to be rated as "hospital grade".

Examples of the construction differences for a receptacle are:

the contacts inside (where the blades of the plug slide in) grab tighter and hold harder. You don't want a respirator's plug to fall out of the wall or suffer burning on the plug blades because the receptacle's contacts are loose.
Redundant grounding.
Extra heavy duty construction so having machines plugged and unplugged many times won't loosen up parts of the receptacle.IMO, hospital grade is overkill for our shops.

[Tom Hamilton]

Thanks for the input and ideas. I'm thinking this would simplify things some and I can't imagine running the bandsaw and tablesaw/jointer at the same time.

My current plugs are twist locks so I'll be looking for a couple more to match the equipment.

Should be an interesting little project.

Again, thanks for the help.

Tom, in Houston, contemplating a 220v power strip with two outlets.

[Rob Russell]

My current plugs are twist locks so I'll be looking for a couple more to match the equipment.



The cheapest place is Ebay for twist locks. Be a bit patient and you can get new Hubbells cheap - $5-$10 each. Been there, done that.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Rick,

Thanks for that info. So you're saying one could get a permit and pass an inspection for multiple 220 outlets on one circuit? This is what I had wanted to do in my garage shop but I always got the feeling it was not allowed in general. Anybody know if there is an NEC code allowing this?

[Charlie Plesums]

I went to an electric supply house and ordered some of these:
http://assets.twacomm.com/assets/1814301107/product_images/19038.jpg
Leviton 5028 apparently made for the Canadian market.

Might not be code in the U.S., but works for me in a one person shop. I can't run more than one machine at a time anyway.

That receptacle is for 15 amp load only, not 20 amp. The 6-20R for 20 amp loads has a different blade configuration.

I can't quote chapter and verse, but I believe the NEC is concerned about motors/machines (at least larger ones) having dedicated circuits... other types of loads can share the circuit. But as many have said, you can have a connection that doesn't meet code that is reasonably safe - the code tries to handle exceptions and problems that you may avoid.

[Al Willits]

Rick, I was repling to the comment on it may or not be NEC code, and that if it was to the national code it may not be in somebodies area.
Not whether it was or not.

I have no clue as to its code compliance, and in all truth, I care less.
I would be concerned if the extension cord can handle the load though.

Al

[Rob Russell]

Alan,

Article 210.21(B) is Branch Circuits, Outlet Devices, Receptacles. The only requirement for branch circuits with more than 1 receptacle are that:

15 amp circuits must have 15-amp receptacles
20 amp circuits can have either 15 or 20 amp receptacles
30 amp circuits must have 30 amp receptacles.

Rob

[Fred Woodward]

Probably guaranteed non-sparking so you can use it around oxygen tents etc.

That receptacle isn't explosion proof. Those are quite a bit more than $24. The exp. proof outlets and plugs I've used were all twist lock and seal air tight before the electrical connection is made.
With the more widespread use of non-explosive anesthetics in Surgery areas, these types of plugs are being eliminated in many if not most hospitals. The classic oxygen tent is not commonly used either. High oxygen concentration areas do have very special requirements for electrical and fire safety that may include explosion proof plugs and receptacles or through bulkhead fittings for electrical connections.
Certainly not something we would need in a woodshop but might be useful for a paint booth or finishing area.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Rick,

Thanks for that info. So you're saying one could get a permit and pass an inspection for multiple 220 outlets on one circuit? This is what I had wanted to do in my garage shop but I always got the feeling it was not allowed in general. Anybody know if there is an NEC code allowing this? Buy a duplex 220V recept.(Leviton # 5462) Check article "Efficent Shop Wiring" in Oct 2005 Popular Woodworking.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Got it Rob, thanks for the reference for that. One more question? Is it usually out of code to have more than one wire on a screw? The 220 outlets I have don't have the extra screws like the 110 volt ones. I'm thinking the right way to connect the 220 's in a series of outlets would be to use pigtails (?)to connect and only have one wire per screw terminal. Make any sense? It's getting late so I'm not sure.:confused:

[Bart Leetch]

Well here before to long my shop is going to have 2 circuits installed with 2 220V plug on each circuit. 1 in a double box & 2 singles separated by about 3-4'.

[Rick Christopherson]

Got it Rob, thanks for the reference for that. One more question? Is it usually out of code to have more than one wire on a screw? The 220 outlets I have don't have the extra screws like the 110 volt ones. I'm thinking the right way to connect the 220 's in a series of outlets would be to use pigtails (?)to connect and only have one wire per screw terminal. Make any sense? It's getting late so I'm not sure.:confused: Yes, it is a code violation to insert two wires under a single screw. The only time this is permissible is when the device is specifically designed and rated to be used in this manner. If the device does not specifically state that it is rated for multiple conductors, you should assume it is not.

I can't remember the exact specifics, but in most cases, you are not allowed to use the duplex outlets to daisy-chain the conductors (like you described) even though they have two sets of screws. I do know that you can't do this with a 20-amp circuit and a 15-amp outlet. What I don't know is if you can do this with a 15-amp circuit and a 15-amp outlet. But even if you could, it isn't a good practice and pigtails are the best approach.

... I have no clue as to its code compliance, and in all truth, I care less... Al, I understood what you were saying, and I wasn't correcting you. I was simply letting you (and others) know that it is not a violation here, nor in most (if not all) other locations. I appologize if you took that to be anything other than informative. If you did, then it was my mistake.

[Rob Russell]

Yes, it is a code violation to insert two wires under a single screw. The only time this is permissible is when the device is specifically designed and rated to be used in this manner. If the device does not specifically state that it is rated for multiple conductors, you should assume it is not.

I can't remember the exact specifics, but in most cases, you are not allowed to use the duplex outlets to daisy-chain the conductors (like you described) even though they have two sets of screws. I do know that you can't do this with a 20-amp circuit and a 15-amp outlet. What I don't know is if you can do this with a 15-amp circuit and a 15-amp outlet. But even if you could, it isn't a good practice and pigtails are the best approach.


Rick,

My understanding of the code violation in the case of 2 wires under a single terminal is because the device isn't listed for 2 wires under a terminal and the code says you have the follow the manufacturer's listing, labelling or instructions included as part of such (110.3(B)).

I'm not aware of anything that says you can't use the 2 screws on the side of a receptacle for feeding down-circuit receptacles. That's how GFCI-receptacles work. I agree that a pigtail is a better practice, but it's my understanding that the 2 screws would provide the same basic paralleled installation (vs. using the old back push-in terminals where the receptacles were effectively wired in series).

Rob

[Al Willits]

Not sure if I'll get used to the post replies either being at the end of the posts or under the post being replied to...:)

Rick, no prob, just wanted to make sure that no one thought it was or wasn't code by what I said, just that there may be varibles to NEC.

fwiw, on my extension cord I used wire nuts to connect the incoming wire, outgoing wire and the wire that went to the outlet, all inside the 2x4 boc that the outlet was installed in, added some electrical tape around the wire nut to help prevent it loosening up.

Al

[Gary Swart]

When I wired my shop for 220, I ran one circuit for the DC, one circuit for the air compressor, one circuit for an AC, and one circuit for machines. On the machine circuit, I installed 4 outlets so I can plug in that many machines. Now, I don't run but one machine at a time, but I don't have to keep swapping cords into the outlet. This also allows me to move my machines without an overly long cable. I do have a 220 extension cord I made up with HD wire so I can use my TS outside in the driveway in nice weather.

[Brad Townsend]

I went to an electric supply house and ordered some of these:
http://assets.twacomm.com/assets/1814301107/product_images/19038.jpg
Leviton 5028 apparently made for the Canadian market.

Might not be code in the U.S., but works for me in a one person shop. I can't run more than one machine at a time anyway.
Correction to this post. This is not what I have been using. What I have is 5822s, which ARE the 20 amp version and shown below. What confused me was the price. Two years ago I paid around $5-6 a piece for these. The website I found the picture on has them priced at $14.97, which is extreme. Check with a local electrical supply house for appropriate pricing.
http://assets.twacomm.com/assets/1814560307/product_images/30142.jpg

[Howard Acheson]

Not sure about where your at, but the locals can add to the national code here, so according to code, may mean different things to different area's.

So, codes could affect almost any wiring, depending on area.

Al who lives in Minn, where there's a code for everything...:)

Yes, local building codes apply to electrical devices used on construction sites. OSHA also has regulations governing electrical devices.

In general, a homemade, multi-outlet strip would not be within the code or regulation if it were used in a application that came under the code.

That said, a private person could make their own and use it themselves without fear of the "code police" coming after them.

As I said before, the "power strip" (receptacle(s), wire and plug) would have to conform to the maximum amperage of the circuit and the combined amperage of any tools must not exceed the amperage of the circuit.

[Rick Christopherson]

...I'm not aware of anything that says you can't use the 2 screws on the side of a receptacle for feeding down-circuit receptacles. That's how GFCI-receptacles work. I agree that a pigtail is a better practice, but it's my understanding that the 2 screws would provide the same basic paralleled installation (vs. using the old back push-in terminals where the receptacles were effectively wired in series). The reason why you can do this on a GFI outlet is because the outlet is designed and rated as a passthrough device. The reason why you can't do it with 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit is because the outlet needs to carry the full 20 amps (available to the downstream outlets) through its contacts, which are only rated for 15 amps. I do not have any knowledge regarding other situations.

Electrically there is no difference between the back-stab connectors and the screw lugs, except the back-stab connectors will raise red flags even faster with an inspector. All of the downstream current has to flow through that little break-away tab separating the two halves of the outlet. This may be a gray area where enforcement varies from inspector to inspector.

Yes, your assessment of two wires under a single screw is what I was saying, but I think you said it a little clearer.

[Rob Russell]

Rick,

I skimmed over the part of your post where you specifically said using 15-amp receptacles as a pass-thru on a 20-amp circuit. I see your point and agree.

It's quite possible that the only difference between the 15 and 20 amp receptacles is the slot configuration and that all the internals are the same, but that's not how the devices are rated, now - is it? :)

Rob

[Tyler Howell]

Al,



As an example, most of us should be glad we don't live in Chicago, where the local codes prohibit the use of "Romex" - all wiring is done in conduit.

Rob

Keeping the unions strong