Powermatic Model 24 shaper???????

[Mark Rios]

This is in my local paper:

POWERMATIC model 24 Shaper, 2hp, 220v, like new $650

That's all there is, other than the phone number.

I tried OWWM and a Google search and didn't come up with anything, although Amazon has a model 25A, whatever that means( I have no point of reference so I don't know how dfferent or similar they are).

What can anyone tell me about this machine? About the price? HP? etc......?


Thanks very much for any info and advice.

[Per Swenson]

I got curious,

Here is a picture from Mr. Yoders home page.

second one down, click to enlarge.

http://www.shoptours.org/shop_tours/files/moses-yoder.html

P

[Mark Rios]

Thanks Per. But I must restate my ignorance. To me it looks just like any other shaper. :D :D :D


Can I assume that this is 2 REAL HP, as opposed to the stated HP of a router?

I'm trying to decide if I should move from a router table to a shaper. I am ready right now to either upgrade my complete router table set-up or get a shaper. I use mostly smaller bits i.e., roundovers, drawer lock bits, T & G bits, cope and stick bits and, hopefully, a panel cutting bit or two but only once in a great while.

It sure seems that shaper bits are ALOT more expensive than router bits. Can I use my current router bits in a shaper like this?


Thanks again for any help and advice.

[Allen Bookout]

I am not a "shaper guy" but have been thinking down the road, maybe. So I have looked at all of the post that I could find the last six months or so and it seems to me that overall the shaper guys are saying go 3hp or greater.

Guys like Per, and others, would likely have some thought on the subject.

I will be watching this thread for information for myself. So Mark, thanks for starting it!

Allen

[tod evans]

mark, that shaper might just be the ticket to your mobility woes? yes it`s a real 2hp motor, i`m guessing it`ll weigh in around 3-400 lbs. it`ll run the profiles you asked about earlier with no trouble. a feeder will bolt to it easily. bits aren`t so bad, look at woodline for brazed carbide they`re not much more than the pricier routerbits. this unit won`t spin huge bits(for a shaper that`s 7" and larger) but you should never wear it out and it fits the cast iron/ horsepower criteria......02 tod

[Per Swenson]

What Tod sez.

About running router bits in shapers.

They (delta) makes a router bit adapter.

This is a great idea on paper, but it doesn't always work out in practice.

Shapers spin at much slower speeds then routers.

Router bits are not designed to spin that slow and my opinion,

the quality of cut suffers.

I phrased this like this, as I am sure some will say they get excellent results

with router bits in a shaper. We don't.

Per

[tod evans]

ditto on pers statement about using routerbits in the shaper. save the money for the extra spindle and buy shaper cutters. you`ll be amazed at how long they live when compared to routerbits, 10x is probably conservative? both the router and shaper have their uses but a shaper will quickly become one of your favorite tools to profile with...02 tod

[Mark Rios]

Thanks for the input.

So, are you saying that I can get, and use, the same profiles of bits for a shaper that I use now in a router? If that's so, then I assume that they are designed to run at the slower speeds?

I know NOTHING about buying shaper bits.

Am I going to NEED a power feeder for T&G and roundover bits?

[tod evans]

Thanks for the input.

So, are you saying that I can get, and use, the same profiles of bits for a shaper that I use now in a router? If that's so, then I assume that they are designed to run at the slower speeds?

I know NOTHING about buying shaper bits.

Am I going to NEED a power feeder for T&G and rounder bits?

mark, you can get most router profiles in shaper cutters. as for feeders, no you don`t NEEEEED one but boy do they make a world of difference both in the quality of work and safety. i ran a shaper freehand for over 15 years before i could afford my first feeder, now i look at the feeder as an integral part of the machine. .02 tod

[Jim Becker]

Can I assume that this is 2 REAL HP, as opposed to the stated HP of a router?

Yes...it's an induction motor, not a universal "screamer" like in a router.

[Charlie Plesums]

I gave up my router table when I went to a combo machine ... so now my only "router table" is a 5 hp shaper. Here is what I have found....

What people are saying about shaper cutters having smoother results and longer lasting is absolutely true. Amazing how much smoother, etc. And the optional power feeder takes it up another step in smooth results.

I have a set of roundover bits from 1/8 inch to 1/2 inch. The small bits don't work very well under 10,000 rpm (my max shaper speed, and the typical max shaper speed) - they really like the 25,000 rpm of a router.

1/4 inch roundover is acceptable in the shaper, maybe slightly better in the router. So I bought a 1/4 inch roundover shaper cutter, with a guide collar (probably 2 inches in diameter, rather than the "tiny" 1/2 inch router bearing, so the shaper has better tracking). The results are close enough that if I have the router spindle in the shaper, I might put in the 1/4 inch roundover bit, but generally the shaper cutter is better. Larger than 1/4 inch, the results are adequate with the router bits in the shaper. Smaller bits, I run by hand in the router.

I have an (expensive) router moulding bit. It is fairly large, so is happy at the lower RPM of the shaper. The shaper produces better results than I got with the same bit in the router table. The shaper with power feeder produces MUCH better results than the router.

I recently had a commission where the customer wanted a specific profile on the raised panels. My cutter vendor was out of stock, but made me a deal on the required profile in the router bit. It cost slightly less, worked ok, and the customer was happy, but I did a lot more sanding than I would have with the shaper cutter. And I don't expect to do a lot more work with that set of router bits.

The disadvantage of the lower rpm is that you have to feed slower to get the same cuts per inch. The slower feed speed means the cutter is in contact with the work longer, and doesn't throw the chips as well. The chips carry away the heat, so overheating, and potentially burning, becomes the issue.

Given the limited space in my "two car studio" I am content to live without a router table, given the advantages of the shaper for larger cuts, and all but the smallest router bits.

[Steve Clardy]

Mark. I have a 24PM.
Smaller table size than its big brother 27.[I think thats the correct model#]

MOST all of them are 2hp.
But mine is a 3hp. Look that one over close.
The reason mine is a 3hp [the dealer I bought it new from told me this] is that PM had a huge stock of 24's with 2hp motors and could not move them. So they installed 3hp motors to move them out, which they did.
My dealer in Springfield, Ballew tools, bought 20 some of them.
By the time I found out about them, He had only four left so he held it for me till I could go pick it up.

[Mark Rios]

Thanks all.

Hmmmmmmm.....I'm still thinking (and listening).....................

[Steve Clardy]

Thats a good price Mark.

Mine was on sale new, $950.00, 4-5 years ago.