New car discounts

[Tom Peterson]

First, I hate to shop for cars. The LOML is looking to replace or '97 Dodge Caravan. She found that she likes the Mazda MPV mostly because it is a short van just like her Caravan. The matter is confused because in our area there are at least 6 brand new 2005's equipped as she would like it. I am not worried about resale, since she drives the same car for a long time. The question is how much less should you pay for a 2005 when they are clearing out the 2006 models at ~$27k MSRP for $20,400?

[Frank Hagan]

Not sure, but you can check and see what the invoice price is, and what local dealers are selling for at http://www.edmunds.com. Sometimes they give you what the dealers get in holdbacks, incentives, etc., that can permit them to sell under the invoice price.

I thought that most imports only had about 10% to work with, but that $20k for a $27k car shows a greater margin. Probably has to do with dealer incentives.

The "Edmunds Fair Price" or whatever they call it is their average paid price according to their surveys. I have found when I initiate a quote using them ... they link to several quoting services such as AutoByTel ... I get a mixed bag. When I first started using Internet sales, I invariably got the Fleet Manager, who didn't even want to meet me. "If you want the car, here's the price." When I bought my Ford Sporttrac, I was in and out of the dealer's place in 45 minutes with the vehicle. And most of that time was in the Finance office, where the guy was trying desparately to beat my credit union's deal (he did, by a quarter point), and in the orientation to show me where to put the key.

I've bought several cars this way, and will never go back to the old way. But some dealers are catching on, and doing the old bait and switch thing. Puente Hills Toyota in California is one such dealer; they send you the email quote and state "we never mark up the prices" ... but then, after you drive two hours through LA traffic, you find they have added "optional" equipment to the tune of $4,000. (I turned them into the Attorney General on that one).

So, you might try the Internet quote thing and get them bidding against each other. But no matter what, walk if they try to change the terms once you get in there. I tell them off too, but that's entirely optional!

[Jim O'Dell]

If a dealer has a 2005 still on the lot, he has already lost his shirt on that vehicle by paying interest on it while it is on his floor plan. My understanding is they would want to get rid of it in a hurry! Make them an offer. If they don't bite, say, ok, show me the '06 over there that's for xxx$s. They may take you up on your 05 offer. Jim.

[Dennis Peacock]

One may be surprised at just how much of a "reduced price" one can get when shopping for a car. Only shows me how much they are marked up so they can offer me an $7K discount. :confused:

[Tom Hamilton]

Tom, the advice to check the internet site is worthy of your consideration. I recently purchased a used Sienna Limited, 04 with 19K miles, and found the sweet spot in the pricing from an internet search.

Also, on new, do a google for a MVP owners group forum. The Sienna forum has a wealth of info including "what I paid" for over 300 vehicles, the dealers invoice, negoiation strategies, Tech Svc Bulletins, etc. There is probably a forum at the Mazda site and an independent one that will be separate.

One thing that seems to be consistent is negoiating a price for the base car and paying wholesale for the extras, add-on and options.

And, like Jim O'Dell said if they still own an 05 they should be very hungry.

Enjoy the hunt.

Tom

[Art Mulder]

First, I hate to shop for cars.

We all do, Tom. :p


The LOML is looking to replace or '97 Dodge Caravan. She found that she likes the Mazda MPV mostly because it is a short van just like her Caravan. The matter is confused because in our area there are at least 6 brand new 2005's equipped as she would like it. I am not worried about resale, since she drives the same car for a long time. The question is how much less should you pay for a 2005 when they are clearing out the 2006 models at ~$27k MSRP for $20,400?

The others are giving good advice. I'd want a pretty good discount, myself, because one year from now if you suddenly want to sell the car... I will bet that you'll get a trade-in price of a "2 year old" car, even though it really would be the same age as the 1 year old '06. Hmm, if you could find out that difference, that'd give you a good mark to aim for.

[Matt Meiser]

Since my dad worked for, and is now retired from Ford, I get to buy at the employee discount price which is non-negotiable. But you still have to negotiate the trade-in value. Why is it that dealers think Kelly Blue Book is way too high for trade in value and way too low for retail? However, they know they only will get your buisiness if a) they are the only ones with the car you want or b) give you the best trade, or c) treat you like an intelligent human being. Since c is out of the question, on our last vehicle I printed out the inventory search of dealers within 30 miles so that I would show that a was not true which saved some time.

Also, we found on our last two vehicles that we got a better deal by taking their financing even though our credit union had significantly better rates because there were rebates tied to accepting their financing. I made sure that there was nothing about paying off early or a minimum time before paying off before signing, then we refinanced the following week with our credit union.

[Jim O'Dell]

The others are giving good advice. I'd want a pretty good discount, myself, because one year from now if you suddenly want to sell the car... I will bet that you'll get a trade-in price of a "2 year old" car, even though it really would be the same age as the 1 year old '06. Hmm, if you could find out that difference, that'd give you a good mark to aim for.

Go to kbb.com (Kelly blue book) and put in the same mileage for the two cars (05 and 06) and see what it shows.
Oh, and part of that 7K discount on the '06 could be Manufacturer's incentives in rebates. May not reflect the mark up from the dealer invoice. If you can see the invoice, look at the bottom right for an "X" and a number. This is what Ford employees can buy it for on a Ford product, and Mazda is partially owned by Ford...not sure if they follow the same thing on the invoices though. All rebates still come off of that price, too. Jim.

[Matt Meiser]

This is what Ford employees can buy it for on a Ford product, and Mazda is partially owned by Ford...not sure if they follow the same thing on the invoices though. All rebates still come off of that price, too. Jim.

Also, if you know anyone works for Ford or is retired from Ford, they can get you that price + 3%, at least it was 3% a couple years ago. To give you an idea, when we bought our Freestar in 2004, we got a total of $11,000 off the sticker price ($33,000) between Z-Plan and the various rebates.

[Chip Charnley]

Tom,

See www.axz.ford.com (http://www.axz.ford.com) for details on potential discounts if you know a Ford employee. You are looking at the X-Plan which is currently 4% over A/Z plan.

Chip Charnley

[duke bryant]

You probably hate car shopping for the same reason that most folks don't like it.

They only buy cars every 3-5 years, and as such, they feel like they don't know enough about the process to make an intelligent decision on whether they get a good price.

I would strongly recomend that you pick up a copy of

"Don't Get Taken Every Time : The Ultimate Guide to Buying or Leasing a Car in the Showroom or on the Internet" By Remar Sutton.

Its a really good book about how the car buying process works, as well as how to take advantage of things like the cars that have been on the lot for a while.

Its a really easy read, and quite useful for anyone that is going to buy a car.

Good luck
Duke

[Joe Pelonio]

I love buying cars, it's like a game, and presents a fun challenge. I always
look at it like I am not in any hurry so can afford to walk out when they fail to agree to my terms. I've had salesmen yell at me as I drove off without buying, and have seen every trick from bait and switch to having another salesman ask for the keys to show the car I like to another customer.

When I bought my Wife's Liberty I qualified for the Ford X-plan as a vendor, and used that to my advantage to buy what we really wanted.
I basically told them what I could get an Escape for, and that I would pay the same and no more for the Liberty. After many hours of fun I got it for that, $8,000 under their sticker. I suggest you go to buy the new car on the 29th or 30th of the month, when they are anxious to meet monthly quotas, and be prepared to walk away if they don't meet your price. I've also had better luck going after 6pm so they are in a hurry so they can go home. I've made several deals after their posted closing time. Once they've spend a couple of hours with you and perhaps missed other sales, they really want to get something out of it. If it's like here there are at least 5-6 Mazda dealers within 1/2 hour drive so keep trying.

[Robert Mickley]

I've never had the luxury of buying a new car. Mainly because I hate paying interest. Besides its hard to take a month or two off when there are payments to make.

Either way no matter how good a deal you make you can bet the dealer made money.

[Jim Becker]

I believe that Chrysler has "employee" pricing on again...

[Tom Peterson]

thanks for the input. We get S-Plan pricing through work, and they are selling at employee pricing. the good thing is that my wife I.D.'d at least five she would be happy with and they are all within an easy drive. I think we'll hold off toward the end of the month and go in S-plan minus the rebates and a target $2k lower than the 06's and see what happens. If it is not a good deal we can walk away because the Dodge is still running . Also, I will check the owners forum, great idea