LN 4 Issues... Help!

[John Hulett]

Okay... it it me (my technique), the plane, the wood, my expectations or some combination of the above?

Bought the LN #4 w/ the High Angle Frog. Glued up some poplar that's too wide now to go through the power planer so I put the #4 to work. The iron is sharp - honed to the 8000 Norton stone. The cut is shallow; I back it off an eighth of a turn and I get no shavings, back and I get what I expect. Later adjustment seems even; taking a pass on the edge of a half inch piece on each the left and right sides of the blade produces uniform shavings on both sides.

So I take the plane to the glued up board, and I cannot seem to avoide planing in some goooves! I even sanded it down flat and smooth and tried again, but got the same type of results.:confused:

Suggestions?

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Sounds like the blade doesn't have the usual slight camber (that prevents a groove line showing at the edge).

[Tyler Howell]

I agree with D.
Also though possible a # 4 is a smoother. For removing a lot of material "too wide to go through the power planer", a scrub or a jointer may be you weapon of choice.
Eat your Wheaties. You will be workin a little harder with a York pitch.;)

[Marc Waldbillig]

...taking a pass on the edge of a half inch piece on each the left and right sides of the blade produces uniform shavings on both sides...


Hi Deirdre,

The blade's edge's cambered?

What does it do in the middle if passing on the half inch edge? Taking a shaving of the same thickness as on the right and left? If less maybe a slight hollow in the blade.

The cap iron screw's tight?

I think smoothers are the right tools for glued-up panels if planed before. Though I'd recommend a jointer first. It depends alot on how flat the panel already is.

Regards, Marc

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

If the blade produces equal shavings testing it on the left and right, then your blade isn't out of alignment right-to-left (meaning, it's not tilted). So that eliminates one possible cause of tracks.

If, however, the blade is ground flat across rather than with a slight camber (rounding at the edges), you'll leave tracks after each pass.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi John,

I suspect there are a few things occurring. First is what has been mentioned as regards the corners of the plane's iron. If the blade is truly straight across, even with the plane set to take a .001" shaving, it will leave slight "tracks" where the corners cut deeper than the surrounding wood surface.

This can be mitigated by technique. Even so, success will come with experience, though.

After you hone your blade, you can merely relieve the corners--a slight rounding--which will change the severe track into a smoother transition. Look at the illustration from an Army manual on honing plane blades below.

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/grind.jpg

Relieving the corners is the fastest way to accomplish your goal of using the plane for the purposes you describe. I typically do it like I was taught concerning honing the tip of a jack knife. Circular motion with the blade tipped up and resting on the corner I am working on. Takes but a few seconds.

The better plane as mentioned for jointing edges is one appropriate in length to the work piece's length. Usually a jack or longer.

But for doing what you are doing, the #4 should work fine. Just relieve the corners.

btw, a HAF will increase the effort of planing a wood such as Poplar.

I would recommend some DVDs, such as Schwarz's or David Charlesworths, or even Cosman's on the various subjects of preparing boards and sharpening. Should be able to get what you need right off of the LN website. Seeing is much better than reading alone.

Take care, Mike

[Marc Waldbillig]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

If the blade produces equal shavings testing it on the left and right, then your blade isn't out of alignment right-to-left (meaning, it's not tilted). So that eliminates one possible cause of tracks.

If, however, the blade is ground flat across rather than with a slight camber (rounding at the edges), you'll leave tracks after each pass.

Deirdre,

And this time it is Deirdre I mean and not John :o. Sure the blade isn't out of alignment if it takes shavings on both sides. But...possibly there is a belly on the blade's back or a tension problem with the chipbreaker. I dunno. This would could leave tracks on the board despite a straight or even lightly cambered cutting edge and you can detect this by taking a pass in the centre of the cutting region which then has to be thinner than those token on the sides.

Actually track marks are result of straight sharpening the edge in 99 of 100 track problems.

Hope I've been clear this time:D ,

Marc

[John Hulett]

I suppose sine most seem to be in agreement, camber must be the issue. The blade is sharpened strait accross. I guess I wasn't planning on putting a camber on the iron, mostly because it seemed like it would be easier to sharpen without the camber - I've only just learned how to sharpen on the water stones.

This is actually only my second or third plane. The first was a rabbit block plane I bought in January, and has had very little use. I bought this #4 at the same time as the... 97?... small chisel plane. Without being able to really get a handle on sharpening a card scraper, the chisel plane seemed like it would do the trick for getting rid of glue.

At any rate, I'm making more shelves like the one here: http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=24177 . So the panels I'm describing are only about 14 x 18 for the largest piece.

I guess I can do some more research on how to do the camber....

Thanks,
John

[Mike Wenzloff]

John, relieving the corners is really just holding the blade up on one corner at about the bevel angle and moving it in a circular motion. Do one side, then the other.

Once that is done, hone the main bevel and then when you would otherwise be done, rock the blade up onto the corners, first a straight stroke ending with lifting onto one corner, straight stroke and ending by lifting on the opposite corner. This just blends in the little radius produced by the first step.

This is different than a blade-width camber.

You don't mention if you use a honing guide or not [or I missed it]. Guides can help produce the relief and or camber--but you would do well to practice by hand without if you don't have one.

Take care, Mike

[John Hulett]

The sharpening class I took at Woodcraft taught without using a guide. I've since picked up a cheap $10 guide at the TWS show that I used last time I sharpened.

I guess I'm comfortable either way. I only bought the guide because there was a nick in the blade - not sure how that happened to a new blade - and I knew it was going to take a little extra to get it out. I figured I play it safe and use a guide. It worked well, but evidently, to a fault.

Did you say it's easier to get the camber WITH the guide?:confused: I thought the whole purpose if the guide was to keep the angle consistant and the iron square.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Depends on the guide. I assume the one you have is the side clamp type? If so, the narrow roller allows one to easily alternate pressure on the corners of the blade, which will introduce camber.

I find pressure on the outside corners on the return stroke the easiest. Hone flat, when done, several strokes flat going forward and on the return, apply pressure on one corner, straight forward, return on the other corner. Do this 5-10 strokes and give it a whirl.

Do be cautious as over time you can fully curve the blade, which has its benefits, but may not be the best for what you are doing. Personally I would just ease the very corners as described in the previous message, followed by a light few strokes across the blade onto the corners as per the picture above.

Take care, Mike

Take care, Mike

[Peter Mc Mahon]

When you are planning the 1/2" piece of wood are you getting a thin shaving? and then not changing the depth when you go to the poplar? When you say that you sanded the wood flat, you have checked this with a straight edge and it is not just smooth but unflat? And lastly, what if you flip the board over, same results? I am thinking that the board is cupped and you are planning on the cupped side leaving "inevitable" tracks.Peter

[John Hulett]

When you are planning the 1/2" piece of wood are you getting a thin shaving? and then not changing the depth when you go to the poplar? When you say that you sanded the wood flat, you have checked this with a straight edge and it is not just smooth but unflat? And lastly, what if you flip the board over, same results? I am thinking that the board is cupped and you are planning on the cupped side leaving "inevitable" tracks.Peter

You may also be right. I'm planing both sides and getting the same results. I hadn't checked with a strait edge, but when I put them on the table saw to cut to final dimensions, for the most part they seemed strait, save for one or two that developed a bit-o-twist.