Need a solid particle filter for liquids

[David Rose]

Hi,

I just bought a large (for our business) ultrasonic gun cleaner. What a job it does! Of course, most of the guns we get in to be cleaned are heavily laden with years of everything from WD-40 varnish to weed seeds and plain old dirt. One gun will discolor the solvent. I suspect that the solution will carry so much trash as to lose effectiveness fairly soon. The solution runs about $55 a gallon, which makes about 4 tanks of solution. It is a water soluable compound. Most of the contamination appears to be large enough to be visible to the naked eye.

I am considering doing two things.

One of them is to drain the tank with its built in bottom drain through some sort of filter into a container, then pour it back into the main tank. If it doesn't need cleaning too often, this would be cheap and easy. The tank holds 5 1/2 gallons.

The other idea is to use a pump to recirculate the fluid through a filter. This will come later either way, unless someone has a really brilliant idea.

But I need a filter. I'm sure there are tons of commercial filters out there to do the job. The company that makes my machine (Crest) builds a system for $1500. That is not an option at this point and cost.

I've thought of building a tube out of something clear to filter through then using something like cloth or coffee filters or maybe even paint filters stacked to remove the larger particles. Or maybe you guys know of a commercial filter that would be OK for the job.

I tend to find a lot of "thinkers" on our site with a lot of diverse knowledge, so I thought I would bounce it off your noggin's first. Any ideas?

Oh, and useful criteria would be: clear to see contamination and flow, easily openable container to change filters, and something that wouldn't be stopped up too readily.

Thanks,

David

[Don Baer]

What about an automotive fuel filter. There cheap, and can be had most anywhere and you can get them in clear housing.

[Bruce Page]

David, assuming the cleaning solution is non-volatile, how about some kind of fish pond filter?
Just a thought.

[Steve Clardy]

I'm thinking a water pump for outside birdbaths,etc., and a large fuel filter for a fuel injected ford. Frame mount filter is fairly good sized.

[David Rose]

The way these contraptions work is interesting. The ultrasonic sound produces microscopic bubbles which are filled with a vaccum. The cleaning action comes from implosion of these bubbles. The rate of speed is very high which creates turbulence and great impact. Also, the internal temp of the collapse is somewhere from 5,000 to 25,000 degrees. So, they warn against using volatile solvents! :eek: On the 4th of this month, it makes you want to build a cheap ultrasonic device, fill it with flamables, and stand waaaaay back before hitting the detonator... I mean switch. :D

David

[David Rose]

Steve,

Would it really have to be a Ford filter? I'm kind of a Chevy man myself... :rolleyes:

David


I'm thinking a water pump for outside birdbaths,etc., and a large fuel filter for a fuel injected ford. Frame mount filter is fairly good sized.

[Lee DeRaud]

Whatever you decide for the filter, your best bet for the pump is probably to cannibalize a small (20-gallon) automotive parts washer. Harbor Freight has them starting at about $100.

[Steve Clardy]

Steve,

Would it really have to be a Ford filter? I'm kind of a Chevy man myself... :rolleyes:

David


Naw. Anything that has a big filter, usually fuel injected.
I just have Ford embedded in me permanetly, so out comes the word Ford:rolleyes: ;) :)

[Bob Aliano]

How fine are the particles you want to filter? You aren't likely to get the solution clear with an automotive grade filter but you will get the big stuff out. To do better you need a filter rated in microns, typically the kind in better water purifier systems. You need to know what materials are compatible with your cleaning solution. I edited my reply to include a fuel filter supplier with a filter that gets down reasonably fine at 3 microns: http://www.ramcoperformance.com/turbofyner.htm

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

I have always found "Cheese Cloth" to be very good at removing particulates from liquids. Can be found at most fabric stores.

Bruce

PS: Cheap, too!

[David Rose]

Bob, I was kind of figuring that. The company doesn't even show a spec sheet on the cleaner they sell for guns. I don't have the chemical yet, as the previous owner was using Simple Green, which was my initial trial. The "real thing" is on order, so I don't even know what it smells like let alone what it might contain. And I don't know if the company will tell much that is not required by law.

I think water purifying filters would be way overkill for my purpose and probably would block quickly. How big are "visible particles"? I may need to remove more than I think, but for right now, I am thinking of just getting out the big chunks.

As you can see, I have no idea of which I speak. But I am thinking if it would make it through a carburetor or injector I might be OK. If I can set up something like this economically, I could at least give it a try.

I've written Crest, but their primary interest in biomedical, so I think their energies will be in way higher tech directions than I can afford.

David


How fine are the particles you want to filter? You aren't likely to get the solution clear with an automotive grade filter but you will get the big stuff out. To do better you need a filter rated in microns, typically the kind in better water purifier systems. You need to know what materials are compatible with your cleaning solution.

[David Rose]

Bruce, I have a piece of a bolt of that stuff. That was one of my thoughts. I just need to shop around for some sort of container that is clear and can be easily opened and connected to the lines. Clear tubing maybe 2 to 4" in diameter that would accept caps?

David


I have always found "Cheese Cloth" to be very good at removing particulates from liquids. Can be found at most fabric stores.

Bruce

PS: Cheap, too!

[Steve Gray]

David;
Buy a universal remote oil filter adapter and a low pressure electric fuel pump and I think you would be in business for a small cash outlay.
JCwhitney's web site has either a single or dual remote oil filter setup made by Transdapt for $49.00 to $59.00. I would probably buy a Carter brand pump (about $35.00) and some 3/8 fuel line and rig up a loop system to the side of your tank. Try to draw from as low as possible on the tank to get all the "trash" that you can. If you use a Wix or Napa Gold filter, you will get filtration down to about 5 microns. I believe the Transdapt setup uses a standard "Ford" oil filter. The fluid will NOT turn clear again, but you will be amazed at the amount of foreign material an oil filter will hold and still let fluid flow through. Just make sure you do not use a "bypass" style filter (Fram). The only drawback with this idea is probably that the pump runs on 12 volt dc. If you could come up with a pump out of a parts washer (110 volt) you could just plug it in and forget it.
Hope this helps:)
Steve

[David Rose]

The "f" word is forgiven. :D :eek:

I remember your pickyup truck from the BBQ at Terry's. ... with all that niiice walnut in the back... It is still on my lumber rack and thinking about turning itself into something just as soon as the cherry chest is done. I like walnut!

David


Naw. Anything that has a big filter, usually fuel injected.
I just have Ford embedded in me permanetly, so out comes the word Ford:rolleyes: ;) :)

[David Rose]

Cool, Steve! Thanks!

I had not thought about a fuel pump. That should be slow enough to not interfere with the cleaning... maybe. The prices sound in line with what I am thinking too. I have a 12V DC converter around here somewhere that is not being used. The tank has an outlet at the low end of the tank for draining, so I think that will do the job. I can just dump it in back anywhere. There is a cover for the tank, but noise is louder with it, so I probably won't run it with the cover on.

David


David;
Buy a universal remote oil filter adapter and a low pressure electric fuel pump and I think you would be in business for a small cash outlay.
JCwhitney's web site has either a single or dual remote oil filter setup made by Transdapt for $49.00 to $59.00. I would probably buy a Carter brand pump (about $35.00) and some 3/8 fuel line and rig up a loop system to the side of your tank. Try to draw from as low as possible on the tank to get all the "trash" that you can. If you use a Wix or Napa Gold filter, you will get filtration down to about 5 microns. I believe the Transdapt setup uses a standard "Ford" oil filter. The fluid will NOT turn clear again, but you will be amazed at the amount of foreign material an oil filter will hold and still let fluid flow through. Just make sure you do not use a "bypass" style filter (Fram). The only drawback with this idea is probably that the pump runs on 12 volt dc. If you could come up with a pump out of a parts washer (110 volt) you could just plug it in and forget it.
Hope this helps:)
Steve

[Bob Aliano]

To build on that idea you could add a cleanable trap ahead of the filter to get the larger stuff and prolong the filter life.

[David Rose]

I just drained the Simple Green after cleaning about 5 pretty dirty guns. I have the company's solution coming in Tuesday. Since I haven't figured out exactly what I want to do, and haven't heard from Crest, I drained this batch through a coffee filter into a large gas can (that was clean). That filtered it pretty well, though it was really slow, taking about 3 hours to drain the 5 1/2 gallons.

I bought a plastic laminated counter top that was damaged at Lowes to extend the table the setup sits on. And since the bottom of the tank did not drain fully clean, I mounted the counter with a bit more downhill slope.

Maybe the smell or labels of the new chemicals will help me find compatibility issues. Oh, and the company *does* have a smaller commercial cleaner available for my tank. I'll see what it looks like before going further.

Bob, are you thinking like a screen as a pretrap, or a coarser filter? I didn't see many if any pieces that a fine wire screen would catch. I think whatever pieces might have started out larger were broken down with the ultrasonic action. The sediment was a fine sludge.

Thanks,

David

[Jim O'Dell]

You might check Grainger for filters. (they have an online catalogue) I remember seeing some for even volatile solutions. I was looking for water filters at the time, so didn't pay too much attention to them. May have too big of pipe for your purpose.
Oh, and be careful with the Simple Green. It's safe, but the fumes will get you if you aren't careful. The guys at work talk about a guy mopping with it, they didn't see him for a while and when the went looking for him, found him passed out on the floor from the fumes. Jim.

[Bob Aliano]

I was picturing solids to filter with a screen or sintered trap. If it's all sludge your kind of stuck with a fabric or paper filter I imagine.

By the way, Simple Green is great for cleaning pitchy saw blades. It doesn't attack the brazing at the root of the carbide tips.

[David Rose]

Bob,

There is another deal to the saw blades though. SG does seem to attack the cement bond *in* the carbide though. The story is that it is OK to wipe it, but not soak it.

The previous owner of my cleaning setup said that with SG you could put your hands in the cleaner with it running. I doubted that, but at one point, for some stupid reason, I reached in bare fingered and pulled out a part. Some people... (me, not the previous owner :rolleyes: ) I could "taste" the Simple Green the next day! I won't do that again. "Safe" does not necessarily mean "harmless". Or at least, I don't mess around with things I can taste after handling as a rule. I had an old doctor once who said to never put your hands on anything you wouldn't drink. That may be an extreme, which I obviously don't follow, but there is probably some truth to it.

David


I was picturing solids to filter with a screen or sintered trap. If it's all sludge your kind of stuck with a fabric or paper filter I imagine.

By the way, Simple Green is great for cleaning pitchy saw blades. It doesn't attack the brazing at the root of the carbide tips.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The way these contraptions work is interesting. The ultrasonic sound produces microscopic bubbles which are filled with a vaccum. The cleaning action comes from implosion of these bubbles. The rate of speed is very high which creates turbulence and great impact. Also, the internal temp of the collapse is somewhere from 5,000 to 25,000 degrees. David

So that's why it hurt like hell the time I put my finger on the ultrasonic plate in the water vaporizer.

I knew it was a bad idea when I did it but sometiimes you just have to reach out and stick your finger on a thing. "Hmmmm I wonder if that will kill me. Well, no time like the present."

[David Rose]

Cliff, it could be that... or the millions of tiny, shark-like teeth in each bubble. :eek: How else are you going to know what something feels like? Of course, there are things like red hot steel... Oh, never mind.

The really bad thing about dying from stuff like this is that you probably won't. :rolleyes: The quality of life will just make you wish it killed you. :confused:

David


So that's why it hurt like hell the time I put my finger on the ultrasonic plate in the water vaporizer.

I knew it was a bad idea when I did it but sometiimes you just have to reach out and stick your finger on a thing. "Hmmmm I wonder if that will kill me. Well, no time like the present."

[John Shuk]

David,
Do you make gun stocks for shot guns?

[David Rose]

John, I sent you a PM to keep this from going commercial.

David


David,
Do you make gun stocks for shot guns?

[Dan Stuewe]

There might be a multitude of reasons this won't work, but how about a small aquarium filter? I think you said the tank was only 5 gal. which is pretty small for an aquarium. I have a 10 gal. aquarium with a "hang on the back" filter. The water is pumped up out of the tank to a little resevoir with a fabric bag with can hold carbon. The carbon is there for the really fine stuff and the fabric bag gets the bigger stuff. I think a small one like I have for a 10 gal. aquarium run around $20 at a pet store.

[David Rose]

Dan,

Thanks! I may even have one of those stored somewhere. I had forgotten that there were filters in that system. I'll see if I can find my old one.

David


There might be a multitude of reasons this won't work, but how about a small aquarium filter? I think you said the tank was only 5 gal. which is pretty small for an aquarium. I have a 10 gal. aquarium with a "hang on the back" filter. The water is pumped up out of the tank to a little resevoir with a fabric bag with can hold carbon. The carbon is there for the really fine stuff and the fabric bag gets the bigger stuff. I think a small one like I have for a 10 gal. aquarium run around $20 at a pet store.

[Julio Navarro]

I heard somewhere that stuff (SG) was made out of people.