Lathe Price Question...Answered, With Pics!

[Vaughn McMillan]

I noticed this on Craig's List, and was wondering if anyone thought it was worth pursuing. The seller is in my neighborhood, so I'll be able to see it in the flesh before I decide to buy it. He's asking $350:
"Excellent condition Sears 15" wood lathe. About 4 years old and very lightly used. Has a Reeves style drive for variable speed from 300-2000 rpm. Cast iron bed, headstock and tailstock. Cam action rests lock quickly and securely into place. Includes live tail center, long and short tool rests, screw center, screw faceplate, bowl turning rest for outboard bowl turning (for bowls over 15" diameter), and a 4 jaw chuck. Also have a home made stand with tool shelf for it which is included if wanted. This is a solid mid-range lathe and is the previous version of the current Sears 21715. looks the same except for slightly different controls on the headstock."
I know at some point I want to move up from my little Wilton mini lathe, but I also know I'm not going to be able to spring for the "last lathe of my life" for quite some time. Is $350 a worthwhile deal for a lathe in this size/hp class, or should I keep looking? This is pretty much the upper end of what I can spend in the near future. What should I expect to be able to find for this amount of money?

Thanks in advance -

- Vaughn

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Vaughn....PM Bernie.....I'm pretty sure he just bought one similar....it's a Craftsman.........he bought his new........BTW....don't be afraid of Craftsman.....John Hart does quite well with one in my opinion!

[Randy Meijer]

Just 4 fun, check out www.grizzly.com (http://www.grizzly) and see what $350 would buy you. That should give you a starting point of comparison!! Randy

[Vaughn McMillan]

Yeppers Randy, I did check Griz, but by the time I get their $350 lathe shipped I'm almost at $450, and that's for a little lower HP. Also, the Griz would still be lacking the outboard tool rest and extra chuck. (I have a Nova G3 already, but a second chuck might be handy. Dunno about the outboard tool rest.) The Sears lathe also goes a bit slower -- 300 to 2000 RPM vs. 600 to 2400 RPM, which I think would be helpful for bowls and such. I've seen good comments about this particular series of Sears lathes, and I don't have any big issues with having Craftsman stuff. It seems like a fairly decent deal, but I'm not very in tune with the used lathe market.

Any ideas what other used lathes sell for about this price range? I'd love to find something like Steve Ash's Oliver in this price range, especially one that's only a couple miles from my house (one of the other pluspoints about the used Craftsman). Then there's eBay auction #180001145476 (an old 110v Powermatic out of a school), but it's priced a bit higher than I can reach, and the shipping from the east coast would almost cost more than the lathe, putting it even farther out of reach.

Speaking of 110v -- my choices are limited to 110v machines, since the shop has no 220v circuits, and an upgrade to the house's main panel is necessary before I can get proper shop power hooked up. That upgrade ain't happening in the near future, unless LOML wins the Lotto or something. ;)

Anyway, I'm open to ideas...just kind of thinking out loud here...

- Vaughn

[Gary Max]

Heck I would go look at it---see if there are any other goodies that go with it that he forgot---help jog his menory---are there any tools???
You know that he would take $300.00 if you where standing there counting out a nice stack of twenty's.

[Frank Fusco]

Randy beat me to it with the Grizzly suggestion. But do consider you can have an outboard tool rest welded up to suit your needs at relatively small cost. The Griz comes with a warranty. To me, that is worth a lot. Especiall when the money is about the same. There is a Griz company man here on SC who doesn't post often. He e-mailed me with assurances that the new Griz lathe has plenty of power. My older G1067Z is rated much less power and has not been a problem. Granted, shipping charges are a factor. Let us know what you do.

[Curt Fuller]

Vaughn I know a couple guys that use that lathe and really like it. I think it sells new for almost twice that much plus it looks like you'd get a few extras. I'd go look it over and make sure it all works but be sure to take someone with you to help load it in the car.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

The biggest concern from my point of view is that speed.

600 rpm is way to fast for a lot of things, including sanding, IMHO. I would not want to try to turn a bowl of any size, and I'm talking 10"+ on a lathe that will not go below 600 rpm.

My old C-man went down to about 480, I think, and that was good, the DVR goes down to 100, which for the size of stuff I'm doing is WAY slow.

Take 7 $50 bills, show him 6, see what he says.

Good luck!

[Joe Melton]

I don't like Craftsman, myself, though that is a general statement. On the other hand, it has a good enough reputation overall that Craftsman stuff is usually sellable. I understand your impatience, so go ahead and buy it. If something nicer comes along, sell it for what you paid or a bit less and figure you got your money's worth.
As for bartering, it is better to ask over the phone, before you go, "would you consider $300?" That puts the seller in the position of not even getting a chance to show you the lathe. It also sets a new price, from which you can negotiate further, if you choose. If he says no, you've not lost anything and still can go see it.
Joe

[Vaughn McMillan]

The biggest concern from my point of view is that speed...
Not sure which lathe you're referring to Stu...the used C-man allegedly goes down to 300 RPM. (The slowest speed for the Griz is 600 RPM.)

Joe brings up a good point about the resale potential of Craftsman stuff. A lot of folks don't know there is any other brand. :p (Including me, at one point in time.)

Thanks all for the suggestions...I'm planning to go look at it tonight. And I've already started sharpening my negotiating pencil. ;)

- Vaughn

[Jeff Horton]

No comment on this lathe, I don't even know what it looks like but I would go look. you will learn something most likely even if you don't buy it.

When looking at an older used lathe don't overlook 3 phase powered lathes. They tend to sell cheaper and a VFD can be had for around $150 +/- and provides you with variable speed control.

Food for thought

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Not sure which lathe you're referring to Stu...the used C-man allegedly goes down to 300 RPM. (The slowest speed for the Griz is 600 RPM.)

Joe brings up a good point about the resale potential of Craftsman stuff. A lot of folks don't know there is any other brand. :p (Including me, at one point in time.)

Thanks all for the suggestions...I'm planning to go look at it tonight. And I've already started sharpening my negotiating pencil. ;)

- Vaughn

Sorry, I was writing this while running the till in the L shop, so I was interupted a few times.

Yes, I mean the Grizzly lathes, their slowest speeds are 600 rpm, which is too fast, IMHO.

Cheers!

PS this lathe is not made by "Craftsman", I remember a thread about the belts breaking and some one said the real maker had addressed the problem but the Sears service guys did not read the memo, so they were still using the wrong replacement part, or something to that effect.

Cheers!

[Randy Meijer]

That might be a little much for a used lathe.....particularly considering that the current version only sells for $450. On the other hand, not having to spring for shipping is a big plus. The chuck could be a $75 junker or a $300 gem. Do you know which??

I strongly agree with those that have suggest 600 RPMs is way too fast for a unit that is going to be used for turning big bowls so I would agree that the Grizzly is not a good option.

Sounds like a phone call and visit are in order. I really don't keep up with tool prices; but it sounds like this could be a good deal...not great; but at least good.....especially if there is a little negotiated wiggle room on the price or extras.

Last suggestion would to be a look at www.Amazon.com . Sometimes you can find an outrageous deal there, including free shipping

[Frank Fusco]

For the record: Grizzly G1067Z is 500 rpm slowest.
G0462 is 600.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

My Jet Mini has a low speed of 500 rpm. When I put on an odd shaped bowl blank or something a little out of balance I wished it'd go down to some slower speed. Of course, not everybody has their lathe mounted to "the diving board"!

[Dick Strauss]

Vaughn,
Check out the 3/4 HP Delta 1440 lathes (46-715). I got one late last year for about $400 after rebates. This may suit your needs.

Just food for thought (especially if you are a termite...)

Dick

[Frank Fusco]

Sorry, I was writing this while running the till in the L shop, so I was interupted a few times.

Yes, I mean the Grizzly lathes, their slowest speeds are 600 rpm, which is too fast, IMHO.

Cheers!

PS this lathe is not made by "Craftsman", I remember a thread about the belts breaking and some one said the real maker had addressed the problem but the Sears service guys did not read the memo, so they were still using the wrong replacement part, or something to that effect.

Cheers!

At one time, many years ago, I owned a Sears franchise store. Customers didn't know it, but Sears sold two different types of belts for their riding lawnmowers (and, presumably other belt-driven stuff). If ordered from the catalog, they failed rapidly. If ordered from repair parts, the customer got a quality belt that lasted much longer. I dunno why, part of some kind of marketing plan. A friend who used to design industrial air conditioners says to get belts designed for those super heavy-duty units. Might be hard to locate but will last much longer than ordinary.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Vaughn I got the newer Sears 15" and like it a lot so far. Has plenty of HP for me. Mike Ramsey has one also and he really likes his. My version only goes down to 400 rpm. My neighbor who is a machinist for about 45 yrs and works with lathes all the time said the low speed looks to him like it is a little slower than 400. Does the head turn for outboard turning? Also does he have the outboard tool rest for it? I paid $478 for mine.

[byron constantine]

I looked at a craftsman lathe a couple months ago and the lathe was so
noisy that i had to turn it off to hear what the seller was saying. I have
since been told that is normal operation noise. I thought for sure that the
bearings were gone.

Byron

[Thomas Glenn]

I have the 21717Mod. of this lathe for four years . what I find not so good is. Not slow enough,Dosen't have a Knockout, Not enough power. The only reason I keep this lathe over in the corner is I have a copy crafter for it .It works well for Spindles .Buron I correct on the nois level
Tom

[Vaughn McMillan]

Thanks to everyone for the input. I went and looked at the lathe after work, and it was in virtually new condition. The only noticeable wear was some sandpaper scuffs on the live center and the original spur center was missing (although the seller was including a fairly chewed-up #2MT spur center). The owner was selling it because he'd picked up a used General lathe for a price he couldn't refuse. (He said it only took one trip to the ATM.) However, he was firm on his asking price for the Craftsman, which I couldn't dispute was a fair price.

Long story short, it followed me home. Per the manual, the spindle speed varies from 360 to 2400 RPM. The motor is rated at 12 amps (versus 2.3 amps for my Wilton mini), which I think is a more accurate gauge than the "2hp peak" rating on the motor plate. The headstock rotates 90° and when parallel to the bed, the headstock and tailstock alignment appears to be dead on. It came with long, short and curved tool rests, plus an outboard tool rest holder. The seller also had a steel bar that he used for a knock-out. Don't know if it came from Sears with one, but I've got one now. (It needs a handle on the end, but I think I have the tools to make a handle. ;) ) There's also a 6" faceplate and a no-name 6" (non-centering) chuck, and I'll have to get a new adaptor for my Nova G3 chuck. It's all #2MT and 1"-8 thread so additional parts will be easy to find.

The seller included a wooden stand he'd cobbled together out of scraps and drywall screws. (He was a British guy, and he apologized for the "agricultural" look of the stand.) It's rough-looking but stable. Although it has a shelf for sand bags and another for tools, I intend to rebuild it (or make an entirely new one) sometime in the future to better fit my available space and maximize the storage. For now, I slapped four casters on it and shoehorned it into my already-crowded shop.

Since I had to make some type of chips with it, I chucked up a nasty old dry fir 4x4 and made it round. I'll chuck some green wood up tomorrow and shoot a few long curlies just for grins. It does have a noticeable hum in the drive system, but it runs smoothly and feels solid. It doesn't have a handwheel on the outboard side of the headstock, and you have to open a cover to engage the spindle lock (which is indexed in 15° increments), but so far those are the only real shortcomings I've noticed. (I'm not real happy about the plastic covers over the cast iron parts of the headstock, but I can live with it.) I can tell already this will be a substantial step up from my Wilton mini. (I think I'll make a base plate for the Wilton that'll fit on the bed of the big lathe. The Craftsman should make a great stand for the mini, which is still a fine little lathe.)

Since it's not a gloat without pics, here are a couple I took before I moved it into the shop and got it dirty.

41997

41998

All in all, I think I'm gonna have fun with this. Now I've just got to find some wood to play with. :D Thanks again for all the input. :)

- Vaughn

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Ｃｏｎｇｒats Vaughn!!

That will work!

Sure the stand is a bit rough, but it is better than clamping it to a workbench! :D

Cheers!

[Ernie Nyvall]

Nice catch there Vaughn. Congratulations!

Ernie

[John Miliunas]

Me thinks you did real well, Vaughn! Quite a step up from the Wilton! :) It should keep you outta' the bars for a while! :D :cool:

[Tom Hamilton]

Congrats Vaughn, what a nice celebration for the 4th of July: a new tool and the fun of learning a new machine. As good as fireworks!

Enjoy!

All the best, Tom

[Ned Bulken]

wooohooo! wtg vaughn!

[Karl Laustrup]

I'd say you done pretty good Vaughn. It does look in very good shape and I'm sure it'll give you many hours of turning enjoyment.

Now, for a proper mounting bench, please refer to Ken's thread after he got the "bomb". :eek: :D

Karl

[tod evans]

nice score vaughn!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Nice haul Vaughn! Yeah.........You don't know what excitement is until you mount your lathe on a 2x12 between two ladders. It saves the bearings on the headstock because any vibration is absorbed by the diving board effect!:eek: :D

[Bernie Weishapl]

Nice haul Vaughn. With the outboard turning you did ok on the price. I really like mine. Mike Ramsey has the same one also.

[Corey Hallagan]

Way to go Vaughn! Nice job.....dang..... everybody has two lathes these days! Guess I need to go buy a bigger one too!

Corey

[Barry Stratton]

All right Vaughn!!! Congrats on the "new to you" lathe!!!!!

[Lee DeRaud]

You don't know what excitement is until you mount your lathe on a 2x12 between two ladders.You mean you're supposed to support both ends of the 2x12?!? No wonder I'm having problems!:eek:

[Cecil Arnold]

Vaughn, that slope gets slicker all the time. Congrats on the gloat.

[Tom Sherman]

Great gloat Vaughn, that's a nice looking lathething. Should bring you many hours of spinning enjoyment.

[Mark Rios]

WTG Vaughn. I really don't know what you're talking about when you mention plusses and minuses about the lathe but It sounds like you're very pleased with the deal and that's the best thing. Congrats!!!