Questions about going Green (Festool sander)

[Doug Shepard]

Sorry if this is rehashing old ground, but I just cant seem to find enough info in earlier threads so here goes:

I'm getting tired of the dust from my ROS (DeWalt) and am taking a hard look at the Festool stuff. I'd rather stick with a 5" sander but which one?
ES125 or RO125 ? Is there anything that the ES125 does that the RO125 can't also do? Other than the dual-mode feature and the price I'm not sure I understand the difference with respect to their use as a ROS.

I just read a ROS review somewhere. IIRC it mentioned the Festool had a propietary 9-hole pattern but that separate sanding pads were available that used an 8-hole pattern. Is that the same 8-hole pattern that the DeWalt's use? I've got quite an investment in discs and whether they're usable with the Festool may weigh into the buying decision or at least delay it a while.

Space being at a real premium in the gashop, would the CT22/33 function well enough as a general shop vac (for non-Festool tool uses) that I could get rid of my current shop vac? Looks like I'd probably also want to get one of the larger diam accesory hoses for that kind of use, but finding space for 2 vacs isn't something I'd want to do. I'm getting close to getting a cyclone DC so may not need as much shop-vac type use as my current one gets, but for sake of argument, could you hook the festool vacs up to say a router table fence or a Performax and get reasonable dust pickup? Or at least as good as what I'm getting with my current vac. ?

[Greg Ladd]

Doug,

I have 2 Festool sanders - the Rotex 150 and the E 125(I believe). I am not at home so I can't verify the model of the smaller one.

I will simply say I cannot see me using the DeWalt sander that I use to use for woodworking any more. The only use it may get is to remove rust or something else that could destroy a tool. I won't miss it if it goes.

The Festool machines simply work and work better than anything else I use.

The Festool vac would certainly replace your shop vac. I don't have the larger hose so I can't comment on that. I will say the suction from the CT22 I have is surprising considering the size of the vacuum.

Hope this helps...
Greg

[Gary Keedwell]

Doug,

Don't feel alone. I, also have pondered the same questions. There are so many Model numbers, I get confused. I want to take the plunge, but just when I think I have my mind made up, I read something different and get the "spins" again!!! LOL I really want to get the Festool brand sander , both for performance and for health reasons. I guess I'll just keep on researching until it finally makes sense to me.

Gary K.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Sorry if this is rehashing old ground, but I just cant seem to find enough info in earlier threads so here goes:

I'm getting tired of the dust from my ROS (DeWalt) and am taking a hard look at the Festool stuff. I'd rather stick with a 5" sander but which one?
ES125 or RO125 ? Is there anything that the ES125 does that the RO125 can't also do? Other than the dual-mode feature and the price I'm not sure I understand the difference with respect to their use as a ROS.

I just read a ROS review somewhere. IIRC it mentioned the Festool had a propietary 9-hole pattern but that separate sanding pads were available that used an 8-hole pattern. Is that the same 8-hole pattern that the DeWalt's use? I've got quite an investment in discs and whether they're usable with the Festool may weigh into the buying decision or at least delay it a while.

Space being at a real premium in the gashop, would the CT22/33 function well enough as a general shop vac (for non-Festool tool uses) that I could get rid of my current shop vac? Looks like I'd probably also want to get one of the larger diam accesory hoses for that kind of use, but finding space for 2 vacs isn't something I'd want to do. I'm getting close to getting a cyclone DC so may not need as much shop-vac type use as my current one gets, but for sake of argument, could you hook the festool vacs up to say a router table fence or a Performax and get reasonable dust pickup? Or at least as good as what I'm getting with my current vac. ?

In ROS mode, the RO125 has a 3.6mm sanding stroke, compared to a 2.5mm stroke for the ES125. That means the RO125 is a more aggressive sander, and the ES125 is more suited to finish sanding. The dual mode of the RO125 provides a much more aggressive sanding action for fast stock removal as well as polishing. So, which sander you choose depends on what you want the sander to do.

I read the FWW review that mentioned an 8 hole pad for the ES125. Festool does not offer that pad. If the pad does not have a center hole, then dust pickup and paper life would be seriously impacted. The Festool sanders are designed to use the center hole as a mechanism to move air over the work surface and significantly improve the sanding efficiency as well as the dust pickup. If you were to cover or eliminate the center hole, the sander simply will not work nearly as well.

The CT22/33 would certainly work well as a shop vac. One issue that comes to mind is the cost of the replacement bags if you use the vac to pick up large volumes of sawdust off the floor and tools.

[Charlie Plesums]

Sorry if this is rehashing old ground, but I just cant seem to find enough info in earlier threads so here goes:
...I'm not sure I understand the difference with respect to their use as a ROS. (snip)
Give SMC member Bob Marino a call... he is extremely helpful and knowledgeable. He spent a long time on the phone with me, and brought me a lot closer to someday taking the green plunge. A lot of people get their Festool equipment from him, and rave about his great service. Details available through his SMC profile and web site.

[Jim Dailey]

Hi Doug, & Gary,
I can see why you are confused. Festool does offer a range of sanders and as Dave pointed out the orbits or sanding strokes vary... the shorter the stroke the finer the finish. Plus the Rotex two models that can provide both a random orbit as well as a rotary/random orbital motion.

I don't own either the two 5" models you are asking about, however I do own 7 different Festool model sanders. Each has a "best use". Out of the two 5" models you listed the Rotex RO 125 FEQ is the most flexiable all around sander being able to go from aggressive stock removal to fine finishing.

I do understand your reluctance to shelve the investment you have in your current Dewalt paper, however I have found that because of the both the quality and the extra center hole that the Festool paper does last longer. The cost of their paper is not out of line with quality paper, however if you think the range of sanders are confusing...... Festool offers 6 kinds of paper!!! Although for most really only two types would be used by the general woodworkers ("Brilliant" for paints & varnishes, "Rubin" for raw wood).

I do own the Festool CT 22 vacuum as well as a Fein Turbo. Each are excellent vacuums but different vacuums. The Fein is better for picking up rough materials because it doesn't require a bag. As Dave pointed out the bags on the Festool are expensive (about $6 per). However the bags last surprising long & I mostly use my Festool CT 22 with my sanders since I can adjust the suction for each sander and you can "dump"/re-use the bags a 1/2 doz times. I feel the CT 22 is the better of the two vacuums, but for picking up router shavings & for rough materials if I had to choose one all around vacuum it would be the Fein. As for the size of hose, granted for rough materials the larger hose works best but is the wrong for sanding as it to stiff and will only get in your way. When it come to hoses for sanding it's like the story of the three bears.... Bosch is too soft & kinks, PC is "OK" but the Festool is just right.

Hope this helps, jim

[Bob Marino]

Doug,

Dave gave a great assessment of the 2 sanders. Also, as a side note, if memeory serves, besides the Dewalt paper not having the center hole, Dewalt's 8 holes are placed differently (closer to the center) on the pad than Festool's. The ES 125 is also nice for vertical work, smaller jobs, etc., but I would also consider Festool's 150 (6") sanders - I think they are smoother than the 125 (5") sanders.

Bob

[John Stevens]

Space being at a real premium in the gashop, would the CT22/33 function well enough as a general shop vac (for non-Festool tool uses) that I could get rid of my current shop vac? [snip]
for sake of argument, could you hook the festool vacs up to say a router table fence or a Performax and get reasonable dust pickup? Or at least as good as what I'm getting with my current vac. ?

Hi, Doug. I've hooked up my Festool vac to the "exhaust pipes" of a Jointech router fence (worked great) and a circular miter saw (picked up as much dust as you can reasonably expect to get that way). Don't know about how it would work with a Performax sander...it didn't pull enough air to work with my 8" jointer or "lunchbox" planer (at least not with the standard hose that comes with it).

Only one caution: think long and hard about whether you really want to know how well the Festool tools work together. After you've used the sander, vac and systainers in combination, your perspective does a "180." Instead of wondering whether Festool's value is worth the premium cost, you'll start wondering whether you can justify giving up that premium value in order to save some money when buying tools. Eventually you'll have 2-3 Festool sanders, a circular saw, a router, an MFT, a whole assortment of guide rails and accessories....

[Chris Padilla]

Dust collection is number one with Festool...no one out there can touch Festool when it comes to the variety of and superbly done dust control they employ for all their power tools. However, you do pay for it but IMO, the lack of dust is well worth it.

Also, if you feel you've bought the wrong Festool tool (sander), they hold their value extremely well...you'll get a large percentage of your money back.

[Dave Tinley]

Bob M-
Not wanting to hijack this thread because it runs parallel to me wanting to upgrade my sander.
I am building face frame cabinets and looking to move full time in the very near future.
Will the es125 hold up to daily usage? Will it be good for 180 grit finishes on plywood and faceframes?
I am debating between a Dynabraid air model and the Festool, any opinions either way??

Thanks
Dave

[Greg Ladd]

Dave,

I cannot comment on the Dynabrade but I believe Festool makes a pneumatic sander as well as the electric models.

Maybe Bob can give you the details.

Greg

[tod evans]

Bob M-
Not wanting to hijack this thread because it runs parallel to me wanting to upgrade my sander.
I am building face frame cabinets and looking to move full time in the very near future.
Will the es125 hold up to daily usage? Will it be good for 180 grit finishes on plywood and faceframes?
I am debating between a Dynabraid air model and the Festool, any opinions either way??

Thanks
Dave

dave, not bob here, sorry. i run dynabrade and dotco air sanders daily both will take a beating. i`ve never had a chance to drive the festool stuff so can`t offer an opinion.....02 tod

[Dennis Peacock]

I use the ES125 a LOT and is my primary finishing sander. Works great and has held up to use that would have already worn out a PC333 sander (already been through three of the PC sanders). I also have the ES150 6" sander and use it for rough sanding and it does a great job. But for inside a cabinet, outside vertical work? I can't seem to grab any other sander than the ES125.:D

[Doug Shepard]

Thanks y'all. I'm going to do some more thinking on this over the next week or so. I'm leaning towards the ES125 and CT33, but I'm sure I'll change my mind half a dozen times before doing anything.

[Bob Marino]

Bob M-
Not wanting to hijack this thread because it runs parallel to me wanting to upgrade my sander.
I am building face frame cabinets and looking to move full time in the very near future.
Will the es125 hold up to daily usage? Will it be good for 180 grit finishes on plywood and faceframes?
I am debating between a Dynabraid air model and the Festool, any opinions either way??

Thanks
Dave

What Dennis said - it will hold up to daily use for sure, and I am not too familiar with the Dynabraids, but pneumatics are "simpler" than electrics - hard to wear em' out. The only Dynas I have seen used had no dc, but maybe certain models have them. I can email you regarding the Festool pneumatics, if you'd like.

Bob

[Jim Becker]

but pneumatics are "simpler" than electrics - hard to wear em' out.

But you also generally need a "really buff" compressor to run them!!
------

The point about the center hole in the abrasive paper is very important. It greatly increases the life of the abrasives...they stay cleaner with no build-up in the middle and dust collection is about as good as it gets with the CT hooked up. (The variable speed on the CT really helps you get the best dust extraction without "gluing" the sander to the board you are working on, too)

You can likely sell your existing abrasive supply to another woodworker...that's what I did...and just get new Festool disposables. The cost is actually very attractive when you add the extra life you get, too.

[Steven Wilson]

Doug, I use the RO 150, ETS 150/3, and RS400 with a CT22 vac. I like the 6" sanders a lot and use the 150/3 for finish sanding and RO150 for shaping and prep sanding. Although the RO150 gives a great finish I find the egonomics of the machine are geared towards rougher work. BTW it also works as a decent buffer. The ETS 150/3 is a wonderful finish sander and a joy to use. I usually use it for grits 150 and up. The RS400 handles the cabinet corners and other chores where the rotary sanders aren't the best. The CT 22 vac works well with the sanders it also works nicely on my PC circular saw and plate jointer as well as a Lamello lipping planer. Dust collection with the Festool router is good and bad depending on what you're doing. I'm also tight on space so I sold my Fein vac when I got the Festool. I also picked up the Universal cleaning kit (comes with the larger hose) and it works well for sucking up chips as well as cleaning out the car, truck, boat, and cleaning up the job site (my house). As for the filter bags, 5$ each isn't bad compared with others. Besides, if you really, really need to (as in you want to use a vac to pick up lathe chips) you can get the long life filter bag which you can empty.

[Chris Padilla]

Steve,

I recently broke out my RS400 for use on some baseboard that I really, really, really, really, really, really didn't want to remove. Wow, I've never enjoyed sanding on my knees with the sander facing the wall before! It was so light that my arms were just fine after give the whole room a good once over. Incidentally, buy the right pieces for < $30 and you can convert it to the delta-shaped pad (or vice versa, convert it to the rectangular pad).