Is the US Military still using the M-14 rifle?

[Bob Weisner]

Anyone know if the US Military is still using the M-14 rifle? Saw a news clip a couple of weeks ago about Iraq and one of our soldiers had a wood stocked rifle that I thought was an old M-14 rifle.

Thanks,

[Don Baer]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=700 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2>HISTORY / NOTES:</TD></TR><TR><TD class=smalltext colSpan=2>The M14 Rifle is the direct descendant of the classic M1 Garand. It served troops during the Korean Conflict and can still be found in the hands of some Special Forces Operatives, most notably, the United States Navy Seals.

The M14 Rifle 7.62 mm rifle is a magazine-fed, gas operated shoulder weapon, designed primarily for semi-automatic fire. It was the standard service rifle until it was replaced in the late-1960s by the 5.56mm M16A1 rifle.

At one time the standard issued rifle for Marines, the M14 Rifle is now used primarily in the Competition in Arms program, or for drill and ceremonial purposes. The M16 replaced the M14 Rifle as the Table of Organization rifle for the Marine Corps during the Vietnam War</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Cecil Arnold]

One correction, Don. The M-14 did not see service in the Korean war(1950-1953), it was issued on a limited basis to Army troops in 1959-60 (with a solid wood front handguard) and to combat divisions in 1961-62 (with a composite front handguard that was a POS) along with the M-60 MG and the (then) XM-79 grenade launcher. I was issued US Rifle M-14, Cal 7.62 mm, SN 125325 in late '61 or early '62 and managed to add that bar to my expert marksman device under the M-1, M-2 carbine and Pistol bars.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

The M14 is still used as a sniper rifle and/or a designated marksman rifle in many armies, due to its excellent accuracy and effectiveness at long range. The United States Marine Corps still use an updated M14 as their Designated Marksman Rifle for infantry squads. This rifle has seen duty in both the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M14_%28rifle%29)

Good Eye Don! :D

[Larry Conely]

I served in the Marine Corps in 67-68 in Viet Nam. I was intially issued an M14, then reissued an M16 after about 6 months. I personally found the M14 to be far superior to the M16 under actual combat conditions.

Larry

[Ken Salisbury]

One correction, Don. The M-14 did not see service in the Korean war(1950-1953).

True -- we used the M1 Garand (From WWII) and the M1 and M2 Carbines.

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[Eddie Watkins]

I used an M14 to "qualify" at the rifle range in 1969. When I arrived in Vietnam they issued an M16. The rifling in the barrel was so bad that when I was sighting it in the bullets would actually leave oblong imprints on the target rather than round holes. There was a big rift at the Paris peace talks about the M16's being in violation of the Geneva Convention Agreements for this reason. I suspect that has been remedied or maybe I just had one that was already worn out. They were prone to jam also.

Eddie

[Bob Childress]

The Air Force was the first branch of service to purchase and issue the M16 in place of the M14. I qualified Expert with an M-16 in 1965. While they were prone to jamming, they were certainly light weight.

The yawing Eddie refers to was a function of the early rifling which was later corrected. The idea was for the round to yaw quickly after striking tissue, but not before as this would affect accuracy. These attempts to control the yaw point were directly related to ratcheting up the stopping power of the lightweight ammo.

In college ROTC I drilled with an M-1 carbine. Now THAT was a heavy booger:D

[Dave Anderson NH]

Us Vietnam era Marines trained on the M-14 in boot camp and never saw any version of the M-16 until we went to the great southeast Asian war games. Since the Corps always gets everyone elses leftovers, we were issued XM-16E1s, the preproduction and early production version with the open ended flash supressor. It was a POS with no chrome plating in the receiver, a weak buffer spring, 20 round magazines which you could only put a maximum of 18 rounds in or the springs would jam, and the stopping power of pea shooter. When going on small fire team (4 men) or squad sized patrols (13) patrols, at leas one guy would carry an M-14 with bipod and selector switch for full automatic fire. He would load every fifth round in the magazines with tracer. Because it fired the heavier NATO 7.62 cartridge, it could give the illusion of being an M-60 machine gun and could discourage someone making a frontal assult on us if we were outnumbered or ran into serious trouble. It was also far more accurate at medium and longer ranges. It was really discouraging to hit a guy with an M-16 at long distance and then watch him waltz away.

[Norman Hitt]

In college ROTC I drilled with an M-1 carbine. Now THAT was a heavy booger:D

Yeah, I remember it in ROTC, and it was heavy, especially at the end of a 6 or 7 hour Drill Practice before a major competition or parade that our Silent Command Drill Team was entered in. I think it was slightly lighter though than the 22 cal Match Rifles we used on the Shooting Team. Now the M-1 "Carbine" was fairly light, but you might as well have thrown Rocks at the enemy as use that Carbine for it's lack of effectiveness.

In Aug '61 in the Air Force, we had to qualify with the M-1 Carbine, and the "45", and for those of us that scored high enough with the Carbine, they let us go back and qualify with the M-1 Garand also.

[Mike Cutler]

I know that the Navy was still using them as late as 1990.

Personally. I think it is the best rifle I have ever shot. It's the only rifle I ever really actually coveted
I have plenty of shotguns but no rifle('cept for a .22). If someone told me I could have just one. It would be the Springfield Armory National Match edition of the M-14.

It doesn't surprise me at all that it is still in use today.

[Cecil Arnold]

Mike, for shooting I found that I liked the M-1 better, the M-14 was a better battle rifle IMHO.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

As a kid I started hunting rabbits and deer with my father's 22 and later graduated to a 12 gauge that I still have. But....I started hunting and carrying my own gun at age 10 under my father's supervision and watchful eye!

In boot camp we carried M-1s but in '76 I was on a special security team because of my security clearance and rank. Once a month we went up river in Charleston and qualified with an M-14, 45 and 12 gauge riot gun. I fell in love shooting the 45's. I was a shop supervisor aboard a sub-tender, my family was in Illinois and I was living aboard. On the days we went upriver to qualify, the guys running the range asked me to stick around and ride a later bus back to the base. I'd shoot to my heart's desire with the 45s ....some were not the standard issue that everybody else qualified with. I felt sorry for one Phillipino 1st class PO. The guy couldn't have weighed 90 lbs sopping wet. He could qualify handily with the 45 and the M-14 but he was scared to death of the 12 gauge riot gun. I'd watch as he'd jack around into the chamber and close his eyes ...both eyes before each shot......and most of them he missed the target and had to do it again until he qualified....On duty days......I was issued a 45 and 2 magazines.....used to scramble regularly due to fouled security alarms...half-closed doors.......We'd run to the armory....go to "our place" on the velvet covered table....grab the gun .......the ammo and scramble..........

[Cecil Arnold]

Well, now that my friend Ken has started with War Stories and the thread is already off track I have a few of my own.

First, for those of you who don't know the difference between a fairy tale and a war story, a fairy tale starts; once upon a time, and a war story starts; now this is no shi..

Ken's .45 recollection reminded me of my introduction to the 1911A1. While in Germany in 1961 we fell out one morning and the First Sargent announced that they were looking for volunteers to try out for the division pistol team. Having done a lot of shooting with a .22 prior to enlistment (and ignoring the old adage never to volunteer) I decided to give it a go and held up my hand. The next week found me in Bamberg, in an empty squad bay with a half dozen others. We were entirely free to do pretty much as we pleased off duty and only made the work call formation, where we piled into whatever transportation was available and went to the range. We spent 8 hours a day for about 6 weeks shooting unlimited amounts of .45 ball ammo. First lesson, the 1911A1 is not the proper weapon to learn to shoot center fire ammo with. Second lesson, it is accurate out to 50 yards. The first day I think I managed to hit the target frame once. At the end of the shooting period I could pretty easily manage a 260X300 on the National match course which consisted of 10 rounds at 50 yards slow fire and 10 rounds each at 25 yards timed and rapid fire. That's all one handed hold.

The other thing that most shooting stories brings to my mind is the BMG M-2, that's the .50 cal. While in Alabama in 1960 I ran a weapons pool where we provided everything in the inventory for the school we supported. The school troops would either draw weapons, or we would take them to the range and set them up for familiarization firing. We had a MG range that must have been 1500 yards with some old Sherman tanks out about 1000 yards--that's almost a mile. The tanks were on the side of the hill that made up the backstop and were at an angle so you could see into the hatch. Most people could drop a tracer round into the hatch within the first three tracers with that thing. It was amazing to see those rounds, that seemed to take a long time to get there, arching out and dropping on target like that.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Well, I don't have any "War Stories" as I've neve had the honor to serve, but I did have a great rifle for deer hunting, it was a Lee Enfield 4 Mk1, it was durable, and even in the snow it would not jam, or cause any trouble.

Mine was limited to 5 rounds, I had a few stripper clips, but did not see the point in using them, as I was not doing any fast loading.

Where we hunted, it was all close brush, not much open space, so this short rifle was easy to use and walk through the brush with.

at 100 yards, I could get nearly every shot in an 8" x 8" square, standing or kneeling.

Great rifle, I bought it for $75 and my Dad still has it......... I hope :rolleyes:

BTW, I found a video on the rifle.......

Lee Enfield 4 Mk1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XozgC-hr3Q&search=enfield)

Kind of neat.

Cheers!

[Andy Hoyt]

Nice tracer story, Cecil.

But if you want a really good light show, there's nothing finer than the only thing about the USAF I like - Puff.
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[Bob Weisner]

I read somewhere that the Coast Guard still uses the M-1 Garand Rifle as their standard issue rifle. Is that true?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Nice tracer story, Cecil.

But if you want a really good light show, there's nothing finer than the only thing about the USAF I like - Puff.
41744

I sat in the Enlisted Man's Club in Great Lakes in the late '60s listening to a drunk Marine Sargent tell war stories. He was in treatment at the Naval Hospital there and just back from 'Nam.........he told how after being shot and still pinned down.....how the prettiest site in the world was "Puff.....the Magic Dragon"...walking through the night sky......

[Bob Childress]

Now that we are competely off the original thread topic, I just want to say that Andy is right about the Puff, but his pic doesn't convey the real story to the uninitiated.

Here is a Puff (AC-47) in action near Pleiku in 1969. :eek:

[Dave Anderson NH]

I'll agree with Spooky (Puff) being a great sight. Saved my sorry rear end a coupla times. You can't describe the sound, you can only experience it. Sort of a cross between a loud continuous tearing of fabric and a mechanical medium pitch staccato. Even these analogies don't do it justice.

[Cecil Arnold]

Andy. I agree about the Air Force but would include the Wart Hog.

[Mike Sheppard]

Having only handled the M1 and the BAR (both 30 cal) the 14 and 16 must be some great rifles to have replaced it, it could pinwheel a 20" bull with a 10" marker at 500 yds. time after time and at 600 yds. with a sand bag. To this day I only hunt with frount stuffers and a curved thing with a string but keep 2 30-06s close by. 500 yds. I drive to not shoot at.
Mike

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

The Wart Hog is the A10, right?

I hear it is one of the funnest planes to fly, must be one heck of a ride when you open up with those guns :eek:

Short Video...

A10 Strafing run (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olWurU8GGhM&mode=related&search=strafe)

Mini Guns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0onqypLy10&search=firepower) Mainly from Helos

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Good thing this thread is in the "Off Topic Forum" because we sure have gone "Off Topic"!

Stu.........the pilots I've talked to who've flown the A-10 swear by it! They claim that plane can take a lot of damage before it goes down and most times it'll get you back home.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Yes that is what I've heard as well.

I've also been told that it is just fun to fly, and one of the last "Seat of the pants" type of planes used.

It is really a portable High ground gun platform :D

[Michael Cody]

That A10 is basically a light tank with wings and big motors... The local ANG group in Battle Creek, MI flew A10's .. impressive airplanes at the air show each year.

[Scott Fernald]

Yes - I have a friend who deals in collectable military arms and others who work with some local military units and they have both told me that M14 parts are getting hard to acquire due to the number of them being actively used "in the field" right now. While they have been used as a sniper rifle for years, now they are in regular use by a variety of units due to the accuracy, stopping power and penetration charateristics - important in those locations where everything is made out of cinder blocks or bricks...

and the military is looking to replace the 9mm with the old reliable .45ACP - fewer rounds but what you hit goes down. Apparently they are not that happy with the results they are getting with the current weapons, and are applying the actual combat "lessons learned" to the next generation of weapons procurement.

Whatever helps keep our guys alive...

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Whatever helps keep our guys alive...

Boy you got that right!

Always fighting the last war....

[Frank Chaffee]

Whatever helps keep our guys alive...

Boy you got that right!
I agree too, when “our guys” includes the whole of humanity.
Frank

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Frank if we go political, we will get shut down. :D

[Frank Chaffee]

Stu,
And all here reading the Creek,
Going “political” is furthest from my intention. I only know that I empathize with all human beings experiencing pain.
Frank

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Stu,
And all here reading the Creek,
Going “political” is furthest from my intention. I only know that I empathize with all human beings experiencing pain.
Frank

Good.

What about those who inflict it on innocent women and children on purpose?

See my sig line?

Cheers!

[Chip Charnley]

Now that we are competely off the original thread topic, I just want to say that Andy is right about the Puff, but his pic doesn't convey the real story to the uninitiated.

Here is a Puff (AC-47) in action near Pleiku in 1969. :eek:

While I never had the need or 'pleasure' of seeing Puff in action, the best description I ever heard was from a guy that did. He said Puff could turned roughly a half a square mile of dense jungle into farm land in about 1 minute if it wasn't for the lead poisoning it caused.