French cleat system questions

[David Croteau]

I'm converting a garage area used for storage into a proper workspace. After reading archives here, one of the first things I want to do is set up a French cleat system to accommodate yet-to-be-built workshop cabinets and fixtures (probably 1/2" ply to balance strength/weight).

The sketch attached is what I had in mind. I would recess the cabinet back. Wall cleat is gray, reinforcing cleat on notched cabinet is blue.

Questions:
1. Any improvements on this basic design?
2. Will 3/4" ply be strong enough for cleats or should I use thicker solid stock?
3. Any suggestions for screw type/size to attach all this with?
4. Any other advice on this type of system?

[Phil Maddox]

I would think that you will need some clearance for the wall cleat to get into your cabinet back. On utility cabinets and such, it would be a lot easier to attach the cleat to the back of the cabinet instead of messing around with making it inset like you show. Your way will yield nice results though.

If you choose to mount the cleat on the back of the cabinet, you will need a spacer near the bottom of the cabinet so that it sets plumb on the wall.

Good luck.

[Ken Garlock]

My first question is: are you ever going to remove the cabinets?:)

If they are permanent, then I would not use the standard french cleat. I would build the cabinet box and at the top inside put a cleat of 3/4" plywood about 3" wide running the width of the cabinet. The inside cleat gives you a good solid surface that can be screwed to the wall studs with some small #14, 3 1/2" screws. Personally, I have never seen a french cleat that extends beyond, or into the cabinet sides, but on the other hand, I have only seen them used on TV fix-um-up shows.

[David Croteau]

Ken, yes, I definitely want the flexibility of being able to move things as my shop evolves...thus, the cleat sysem.

Phil, good point on the clearance issue.

I originally was going to just screw a cleat to the back of a cabinet but was a little concerned about debris settling back there. Also, I read here somewhere about actually notching the cabinet to both improve strength and reduce the gap. That seemed to make sense, which is why I was trying to figure out how it was done, exactly. I've never seen it either !

[Jim Becker]

This is an excellent way to hang cabinets at any time, but for a workshop, it's even better since it gives you a lot of flexiblity...if I actually had wall space, I'd be using it "a lot". BTW, it's not limited to cabinets, either. WOOD Magazine's Idea Shop #5 (http://woodmagazine.com/wood/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/wood/story/data/463.xml&catref=wd8) uses this method for a wide variety of wall-mounted things.

And yes, you need to extend the bottom of your recess to allow you to lift off the cabinet to move it. It doesn't need to be a lot...just enough plus a wee bit to lift it up and clear the angled areas...and inch or so, typically.

[Ken Garlock]

Ken, yes, I definitely want the flexibility of being able to move things as my shop evolves...thus, the cleat sysem.

You know what you want, go for it.:)

[Roy Hess]

David
I put the system all around my garage shop and it is great, lots of flexibility. For example I recently moved cabinets by my drill press and hung up a central vac, very slick and easy. I have used ripped plywood for cleats on the wall and would not recommend it - use hardwood. Another caution if I may, your walls need to be really straight if you have wide cabinets to install - I needed to shim some along the wall to insure the cleats were true. The picture shows the recently installed central vac, and even the work light for the drill press is hung on a cleat. I have some really heavy cabinets hung on this system. Highly recommended !!

[frank shic]

here's another option. they work like their levelling feet counterparts. one pair is rated to support 130 kilograms.

http://www.blum.com/img/OTHER_PRODUCTS/imagetext/VBD0003_139_100.jpg

[David Croteau]

David
I have used ripped plywood for cleats on the wall and would not recommend it - use hardwood.

I'm curious, why? Is it a strength issue?

[Jim Becker]

I've always used 3/4" plywood...and not even the "good stuff" for this kind of thing, although if the cleat will be visible inside, nicer plywood is, well...nice... ;)

[Matt Meiser]

Personally, I wouldn't go to the trouble of extending the carcase to the wall. Just build boxes and attach a spacer to the bottom equal that is the same thickness of the cleat. That's would just be my preference to simplify things and if you like the look go for it--but do allow room under the cleat cutout to allow lifting the cabinet as others have said. I installed a piece of trim around my shop to hide a seam in the walls. After I posted pictures people commented that they liked how I installed the cleat. Wish I had.

Also, where I've used them I've put a screw or two throuugh the back of the cabinet into the cleat to lock it. Just in case.

[Roger Bell]

I have french cleats all the way round in my shop. I used the simple method already discussed. I used doug fir for the cleats and finished it off with a quick coat of shellac. Also used screws and fender washers to attach the cleat to the cab from the inside. #10 x 3/4" as I recall. In terms of hanging the cleat itself, I used #12 x 4" screws into studs. When you think about it, it is the screws that are holding the weight of the all the stuff on the cleat. Use plenty-screw in each stud.

I like F. Cleats. Allows you to change things around as your shop evolves...as it will. For areas of the cleat not taken up by cabs, you can add hanging nails, shaker pegs. etc. to get stuff up off the floor and onto wall space.

[Roy Hess]

David
3/4 plywood will work OK, I used plywood in my laundry room. I guess I like hardwood because when I move cabinets, I tend to "slide" them along the cleat, and I find that hardwood works better for this.

[David Croteau]

Great, thanks everyone.

Sounds like the traditional method with the cleat screwed flat on the back of the cab (and a spacer) is plenty strong. That'll be easier to make, too. If it ain't broke....

From the photo at the "Idea Shop" link Jim sent, it looks like they installed cleats at two levels. Interesting idea that I might use in a couple of spots.

[Gary Keedwell]

I have the " Freedom Cleat" system in my basement shop and like it alot.

Gary K.

[Stuart Johnson]

When I hung my shop cabinets I made the cabinet cleat (your blue) about 3" shorter than the width of the cabinet. The wall cleats (your grey) are the same width. This allows the cabinet to fit over the cleat with some side to side adjustment room. I used 3/4" BB for both the cabinets and cleats.

[Hank Knight]

David,

Wood Magazine did an article several years ago (not the same one Jim cited) that featured workshop cabinets hung with French cleats against a pegboard wall. The top stringer to which the pegboard is attached to the wall is 1/2 of the french cleat. The other half is attached to the cabinet.The cabinets have no backs and hang flush with the pegboard, so the peegboard effectively becomes the cabinet back. I used the idea in my shop and it works great. The cabinets are fully mobile and, with the pegboard, you can hang stuff on the cabinet backs. It's a very flexible system. I posted some pictures here:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=35720&page=3
(see the last post in the thread).

Hank