New workshop design - looking for your thoughts

[Mike Williams]

After a couple of years of planning, and a couple of months of drawing, I think it is time to ask for your ideas and comments. As I have mentioned in a couple of previous posts, we have been in the UK and Ireland for about the last 30 months on an assignment that was originally intended to be 12 - 15 months. My tools are all in storage, except for the small bag of hammer, screwdrivers, pliers, etc. for general maintenance.

My wife, Sandy, and I will be returning to the US upon my retirement about May 1<SUP>st</SUP> of next year. We recently bought our retirement home in SE Michigan (in Fenton - about 20 minutes south of Flint) to be near family and especially grandchildren. We were lucky in that the previous owner has stayed on as our tenant while she builds her new home.

The house property is large enough for the Township to allow about a 1,200 sf outbuilding for my shop. This shop will combine my two primary hobbies, wood working and stained glass. I enjoy both equally, but I have to tell you, stained glass is a lot cheaper than woodworking! It will be located about 50’ away from the house. Although it seems like I’ve collected tools more than used them over the last ten years, I can see my woodworking focused initially on furniture, with enough cabinet making to outfit the shop and do some odds and ends for family and friends. I’d also like to sample that vortex and try some turning.

I’ve attached a couple of plan views of my design, along with a couple of perspective views (at the end of this post). The building would have a 10’ ceiling, giving me a 9’ effective clear space with the upper foot reserved for lighting and dust collection ductwork.

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The Township requires footings to go down 4’, so I’m planning on a conventional concrete foundation perimeter wall and slab-on-grade. I’ll have hot water radiant heating in the slab, with a wood floor over that (probably a double layer of ¾” plywood). I’ll look at the pricing for a hardwood floor over a single layer of plywood. The mechanical room I’ve shown is for the “boiler” for the floor heat. I can envision one of the small on-call heaters for the utility sink water. I also plan on air conditioning - I hope to spend some long hours here, and I do want to be comfortable!

I’m planning on 2 x 6 exterior framing. I think the interior walls will all be ½” or ¾” plywood for ease of mounting cabinets, etc. to the walls. I have to check whether the Township will required drywall over the plywood for fire protection.

I’m not planning on any attic storage. If I could go bigger with the building and put in a conventional stairway, I’d consider it. But I’m not interested in the pull-down attic storage stairs. As I look forward to using this shop in my later years, I’d rather have everything I need on the ground floor. You might question the storage room, but I’m the kind of guy who likes things to be stored away when I’m not using them, and I can see infrequently used hardware and fasteners, tool storage boxes, seldom used jigs, etc. all in here rather than out in the main shop.

The stained glass part of the hobby fits in pretty well with the finishing room. It requires some safe storage space for the glass (half sheets are about 18” x 24”), natural lighting, room to cut the glass and lay it out on the pattern, room for a grinder and small diamond blade bandsaw, and a light box. It also requires some very good ventilation or a fume trap to collect the soldering fumes. The large utility sink will also come in handy to wash down the finished pieces.

I’ve put the air compressor and dust collector cyclone together in a ‘closet’, with the cyclone exhaust filter back outside in the main shop. That feels right to put this noisy equipment inside its own room, while discharging the air back into the shop. That way I don’t have to worry about wall louvers or filters for the exhaust clean air to get back in to the main shop, and I can see if there is a leak on this exhaust. I realize I may have to extend the air compressor inlet also into the main shop to pick up clean air.

Generally, I’ve got 30” or more clearance to walk around the equipment, and 36 - 48" around the benches. The entrance door opening will be 6 ‘ x 8’ (double door). The clearance between the miter saw bench and the plywood storage rack is 5’, and the aisle down the left of the table saw to the finishing room is 4’. The table saw and workbench will be on the floor - all the perimeter equipment and the assembly and finishing tables will be on casters.

That’s probably long enough for right now. Please take a look at the design and let me know what you think. I’ve still got time to change the design at least 10 times before I can start building! Now I have to start planning Sandy’s sewing and art / craft room in the lower level of the house. For some reason, she thinks she deserves a space of her own also. If I do this right, I’ll make sure she gets her space finished and ready for use before mine.

PS - I know I went overboard with some (all?) of the SketchUp drawings. I can’t build anything right now, so I guess that has been my substitute therapy.

Thanks!

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[Doug Jones from Oregon]

Looks good from where I sit.

The only comment I have is the finish/stained glass room. I'm not sure that I would want to try to mix the two, expecially if you are going to spray finish anything...the overspray is going to get onto your glass.

Doug

[Jim Becker]

One of the things we have learned in planning our home addition is that 2x4 framing with closed cell spray foam insulation is a virtual wash with 2x6 construction and batts...and the former is more efficient given the sealed envelope and structural rigidity it brings. Since you'll be in a cold climate, price it out both ways.

I happen to like the layout, but agree with Doug that you may have some conflicts along the way with combination stained glass studio and finishing room.

[Mike Williams]

Doug and Jim,

Thanks for the review and comments on my proposed shop. I will look into the 2 x 4 framing with closed cell foam insulation. I hadn't thought of that, and the improved sealing and rigidity sounds good.

You're both right that my stained glass hobby and spray wood finishing would not be a good mix. All my wood finishing up to now has been shellac, or other brush-on / wipe-on finishes. There's no conflict with the glass with this approach.

I haven't ever tried spraying, and with this compromise between the two interests, might never get there. I can't affort the space or money to set up a separate space for the glass. I can see about half my time spent on glass, so it needs to be a nice area for it. I guess if I ever get to spraying, I'll set something up temporarily somewhere (or have to buy more land so I can build a bigger shop!).

I've attached a photo of the last glass project I did before we left the US. It's about 3' x 5', and is based on Tiffany's 1906 Irises and Magnolias. We had it in our foyer, in an interior wall and backlit. It's (hopefully) safely in storage until we can get it installed in the new house.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I like the shop layout....plenty of space for all your tools. I would love to have hardwoods on my floor over the plywood. Can't wait to watch the progress!

[tod evans]

mike, the foam technology is really cool and it does seal up a structure very well, so well in fact that you`ll need to give serious thought to the design and implimintation of your hvac system. especially since you`ve stated that you intend to use radiant heat. the system must provide forced air exchanges during the heating as well as the cooling months or your indoor air quality will suffer. be sure to weigh the costs of the upgraded hvac system in your evaluation of building techniques and costs.
your floorplan looks workable from here....02 tod

[Jim O'Dell]

Mike, it all looks good. The only thing that hits me that you might want to rethink is the DC and air compressor closet. Most of the noise of a DC is in the exhaust. Put those filters inside the closet and build a baffel system to return the air back to the shop to further dampen some of the noise.
Man, you guys designing and building these huge shops are killing me!!! :D :D If you run out of design work before you get to retire, you could always build a model of the structure with balsa wood!!:rolleyes:
And that stained glass is BEAUTIFUL! I've thought about learning a little, enough to build a piece I have in my mind for our foyer. Too many things to do and so little money.... Jim.

[Jim Becker]

Relative to spraying finishes...if you go with water borne, you can use a knock-down spray booth in the shop to contain the over-spray. If you want to spray solvent-based finishes, you need to spend a lot of money to do it safely. Yea, a lot of folks don't bother, but...

[Mark Singer]

This is a very logical layout and it is like a bigger version of my shop...which has realy worked out well.. I would make the outfeed table on the cabinet saw a full 4x8 running the 8' in the outfeed direction...I used 1" MDF and left a 4" overhang to clamp to
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3554&d=1071714640

[Mike Williams]

the foam technology ...does seal up a structure very well, so well in fact that you`ll need to give serious thought to the design and implimintation of your hvac system.

Tod - thanks for the heads up on the foam technology. With the foam insulation, radiant heat, and the remote AC compressor unit (like on NYW), I can see where insufficient fresh air could be a problem. I'll make sure I discuss that with the builder.

Yes, I do plan on having the shop structure built, rather than doing it myself. After waiting all these years, I'd rather get on and start using the shop rather than spending my time building it.

[Mike Williams]

The only thing that hits me that you might want to rethink is the DC and air compressor closet.

Jim - thanks for the suggestion on putting the DC exhaust inside the closet. I will surely reconsider that one. Regarding building a balsa model of the shop - I was thinking of going the other way - drawing up some models of anticipated projects in SketchUp and including them in my shop model.:D


And that stained glass is BEAUTIFUL! I've thought about learning a little... Jim.

Thanks also for the kind words on the glass. It's pretty easy to get started. After a while, the technical side (cutting and soldering) is mastered. The harder part - at least for me - is to have the artist's eye in picking the right little piece of glass to make the picture I want. But it's another one of those hobbies that has always been very fulfilling, and I'm still learning a lot. And the family has a long list of things they'd like me to make. Sounds like job security to me.

[Mike Williams]

I would make the outfeed table on the cabinet saw a full 4x8 running the 8' in the outfeed direction

Mark - I was going to respond that I planned on having a little more than a 48" length after the saw blade. I figured that would keep a 8' sheet of plywood from tipping after the cut - especially if I either moved the assembly table up close or used a roller support. But I rechecked my drawing, and I've only allowed for about 42". So I need to rethink / redraw that outfeed table anyway.

But going back to my original thought, unless you had a lot of shop space, why would you provide the 8' outfeed table? Is it just convenience, or is my thinking about only needing to provide a little more than half the cut length wrong?

[Mike Hollingsworth]

your plywood storage seems to limit the size of your hardwood stash.
You'll need a spot for longer boards.

I always thought stained glass was kind of hokey before I saw your work.
Very nice!!!

Mike

[Mike Williams]

your plywood storage seems to limit the size of your hardwood stash.
You'll need a spot for longer boards.

I always thought stained glass was kind of hokey before I saw your work.
Very nice!!!

Mike

Mike - You're right. The lumber storage would limit the lengths to about 8'. I guess my first solution would be to install some additional racks over the miter saw - I could then handle up to about 12' there. It would still be close to the entrance door. Thanks for catching that.

Hokey stained glass?? Well, I know I definitely don't want to do 'sun catchers'.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I have a better idea....move the plywood storage right next to the DC closet, then you will have room over the lathe to put longer racks. The plywood cabinet has been buggin' me since I first looked over the plan, but I waited til I had a solution before mentioning it. You really won't like anything in the way of getting big items in and out of those double doors. DAMHIKT, but it involves my first little shop...:D:D:D

[Rob Bodenschatz]

I agree with Kelly on that. In addition to what he said, it would probably be easier to get long boards down from up high in that scenario since you can "belly up" to the rack. I worry about reaching over cabinets to retrieve long, heavy objects.

Another thing to think about is where you're going to keep your hand-held power tools. Jigsaw, circular saw, drills, etc. I only bring that up because I'm trying to figure out a solution for myself right now. Looks like you have two options as it's drawn: the wall bench cabinet and the miter bench. Just another thing to think about.

Your layout looks great for dust collection.

On another note, I love your SketchUps. Did you create each machine/item as a separate component and then plop them into your shop drawing? Or did you find them already created somewhere. I'm designing a shop as well and I love the way you have yours drawn.

Overall, nicely done.

[Mike Williams]

I have a better idea....move the plywood storage right next to the DC closet, then you will have room over the lathe to put longer racks.

Kelly - that's a great idea. Along with Jim's suggestion of putting the DC exhaust back inside the closet, it will be logical to move the plywood box next to the DC closet. It opens up the access, resolves the long lumber storage access, and gives me a closer bench space when I'm at the lathe. I like it! http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Mike Williams]

Another thing to think about is where you're going to keep your hand-held power tools. Jigsaw, circular saw, drills, etc.

On another note, I love your SketchUps. Did you create each machine/item as a separate component and then plop them into your shop drawing? Or did you find them already created somewhere.

Rob - At this point, I haven't given a great deal of thought to storing the hand-held power tools. The wall bench will give me a fair amount of storage - but I haven't gotten to thinking about drawers vs. shelves, etc. (probably drawer storage). I also have room to put up a couple of wall cabinets over the bench on either side of the window. I have 9 drawers in the free standing workbench for handtools. I also could put tool storage in the assembly table, although I've shown clamp storage there right now.

This exercise has been my first real 'project' on SketchUp, so I'm still very much a novice (and having a lot of fun). I've created each tool, bench, etc. as a separate file, then saved them as a component in my component library and pasted them into the floor plan. If they would help you in any way, I'd be glad to share them. Send me a PM.

[Rob Russell]

Mike,

Why the odd dimensions for the shop? They don't even work out to even 16" increments? I'm asking only because even 4' increments are generally considered to be the cheapest to build.

Also, since you're doing a slap and 4' frost walls, for the cost of excavation and 4' more concrete - you could have a full basement under your shop. That'd be a great place to put the compressor and get some secure storage.

Rob

[Mark Singer]

Mark - I was going to respond that I planned on having a little more than a 48" length after the saw blade. I figured that would keep a 8' sheet of plywood from tipping after the cut - especially if I either moved the assembly table up close or used a roller support. But I rechecked my drawing, and I've only allowed for about 42". So I need to rethink / redraw that outfeed table anyway.

But going back to my original thought, unless you had a lot of shop space, why would you provide the 8' outfeed table? Is it just convenience, or is my thinking about only needing to provide a little more than half the cut length wrong?

In my shop it is also my glue up and finishing table and it works really well. I have some carboard to protect it....it is the center of production and my bench is used for joinery and planing

[Randy Denby]

Mike, I really like how you've set up your shop and the 3d drawings are great. You say that you used Sketchup? Could you point me in the right direction as I'm in the process of planning my shop as well.
Also, I'm an HVAC contractor...in Texas, so I've never dealt with in floor radiant heat. But , It concerns me that you would be installing such a thick wood floor over that heat which if I understand correctly, will be immersed in the concrete? I would think the thick wood flooring would slow down the heat transfer and make for a wide swing to the setpoint temperature. Anyways, might discuss this with someone versed in this technology. And thanks in advance for the input on Sketchup.
Randy

[David Klug]

Mike I wish that I had a shop with that kind of room. One suggestion would be even with the extension on your TS you will want to have your bench a little lower than your TS because when you rip a 10 -12 ft. board across the distance to your bench it will drop a little and hang up on it. The other thing you can do is put a small sheet metal over the edge and let it slide up on top of the bench.

DK

[Mike Williams]

Thanks to everyone for all the reviews and suggestions. Like everyone else has experienced, this will be a better and more enjoyable shop due to your involvement.


Mike, I really like how you've set up your shop and the 3d drawings are great. You say that you used Sketchup? Could you point me in the right direction as I'm in the process of planning my shop as well.

Also, I'm an HVAC contractor...in Texas, so I've never dealt with in floor radiant heat. But , It concerns me that you would be installing such a thick wood floor over that heat which if I understand correctly, will be immersed in the concrete?
Randy

Randy - I'm very much a novice on SketchUp, but I will help you in any way I can. If you want to PM me, we could have an off-line conversation on how I got started with my design.

Thanks for the caution on the concrete and plywood floor. I think I will start a separate thread in a few days to discuss this, and present a few options that I can think of.


Mike,Why the odd dimensions for the shop? They don't even work out to even 16" increments? ... Also, since you're doing a slap and 4' frost walls, for the cost of excavation and 4' more concrete - you could have a full basement under your shop...

Rob

Rob - good point. Up to now, I've started with the equipment and functions I wanted inside the shop and the walk-around room. I let the exterior walls then enclose the space without worrying about even dimensions. I'll try to get to a better exterior dimension on my next go-around. But I won't have too much flexibility, because I'm pushing the limit on the space I can enclose based on zoning limitations.

But I'm curious. What are you supposed to try to have as the even 16" or 4' dimension? Is it the outside of the framing walls, the outside of the wall sheathing, the inside of the framing walls, or ??? It seems like something is going to get trimmed off no matter what you do.

Thanks for the suggestion on the basement. I'll have to think about that one.

[Rob Russell]

Mike,

Generally speaking, you'd use 4' dimensions on the exterior. A 36' x 36' or 32' x 40' shop would be a nice example of that and would be similar in size to what you have currently planned. That makes the sheet goods for the platform and sheathing easier to deal with. You could do other increments (2', 16") but there are tradoffs. IMO, cutting really odd dimensions is a good way to invite mistakes.

One thing about the basement that I didn't say before (:D ) - you'd have to rethink your radiant heat and either go with a "staple up job" (aluminum plates screwed up underneath the flooring) or lay sleepers and run the tubing on top of the structural subfloor. Framing the floor is an additional cost over your slab, too.

Rob