Hard Maple Counter Top (What Glue)

[Jay Albrandt]

I need a 14' long maple counter top that will be used for food prep.

First has anyone ever built one and could you pass along any pointers. Second, since food will be in contact with it, what glue should I use.

Thanks,

Jay

[john whittaker]

Jay, I would use Titebond 2. But read the label first. I think it states that it's food safe. At least that's my recollection back when I was making a bunch of chopping blocks.

[Steve Strickler]

Jay,
I have made a few of these and use Titebond with good success. Titebond 3 advertises that it's waterproof, but if you have liquids getting down in the joint far enough to matter, you got worse problems.

I also find it VERY useful to use dowels between the laminations to help register the pieces during glue-up, especially with it being so long. If you need more info, I can illustrate what I mean.

Have fun.

[Jamie Buxton]

14 feet long, in one piece? There's some challenges. The biggest may be that you'll need to edge-joint planks which are 14' long. That's a jointer with an industrial length -- not the usual small-shop machine. A smaller issue is that you may not be able to buy planks which are 14' long. My dealers tend to stock 9 or 10 footers in 8/4 maple. I'd have to finger-joint planks together to get 14 footers.

[Jim Becker]

Jamie, I agree with you, but getting them close with some outboard support and then having the whole slab sanded on a wide-belt is going to work just fine for a counter.

Jay, I'd probably use Titebond II or III...whichever I had handy.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I submit that the glue is merely part of the equation. I submit that if the wood is sealed completely and deeply that no water degradation will come to the glue and you’ be free to use anything from epoxies to poly vinyl to hyde glue.
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My hard and painful lesson working hard maple butcher block furniture came in when the ends started to separate. It was substantial and most frustrating and it happened overnight – literally overnight. A whole living room set couth love seat chair (two inch thick block) two end tables and a coffee table (one and a half inch thick) all of it with splits in the ends. Ouch. The glue was a common polyvinyl yellow Elmer’s and it failed at the ends. It happened simply because I didn’t apply a sealant to the end grain. I just left it overnight and in the morning heartache.
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A food prep counter top will be constantly taking on moisture. There is a definite possibility of glued-edge failure & the attendant lamination separation from the wood movement. Not one polymer based adhesive is "flow proof." They are all plastics and all plastics have high flow rates. So when the laminations move, they will apply pressure on the glue tending to pull the joints apart. Over time the glue will flow in the direction of the pressure. Then the wood will move quite a lot resulting in substantial separation of the laminations.

Many folks try to stave off water absorption by soaking the laminated maple block in mineral oil. It works after a fashion but requires repeat treatments periodically and once the block is mounted you can't really do it like you could when it was free.
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My solution:
I am basically a very lazy person. I can not bring myself to properly manage things that require high maintenance. I wreck every thing that requires constant attention because I won’t tend to it. That's just me. So an oiled butcher block is not a good thing for me (or the other way ‘round).
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Instead of the traditional finishes I have gravitated to two part catalyzing urethanes and epoxies for high wear applications whether it’s full exposure to all season NE weather or heavy foot traffic or as I your case food prep areas. <o =""></o>
What a penetrating two component urethane or epoxy does is to penetrate deeply (way deeper than high cut shellac) into the wood and develop it’s molecular structure around the wood fibers.
The polymer molecule isn’t yet built till the catalyst and resin complete their interaction. When it’s done it’s is deeply bedded in the wood and intimately involved with the wood fibers wrapping it’s molecules around the fibers all the way down to the molecular level of the wood and polymer. That is a very, very intimate bond. No shellac or use from the can finish can do this. Not a one.
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When I apply a finish that way I expect it to last no less than 20 years if I leave it outside all the time.
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One serious down side to these finishes is that when used without thinning they tend to give you a highly “built up” plastic look and feel.
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The urethanes ate thinned with Xylene, and I think most the epoxies can be thinned with Naptha. I’ve never tried it. I suppose I should. You do have to apply the second coat while the first coat is still not fully cured to get maximum bond. So there are a few application issues.
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Any way I suggest you take seriously the value of the more modern high tech finishes and at least take a look at ‘em. They are tough as nails and will completely and deeply seal the wood so no water will get in - ever.
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[Jim Becker]

But...if there is any cutting going to be done on it, any form of a film finish isn't advised. That's why a renewable finish, such as mineral oil is used so frequently in this application. I'm actually considering putting a film finish on my kitchen island which is a maple top I made. (TiteBond II) We don't cut on it (have a large cutting board dedicate to that purpose) and the finish would be very helpful to us to keep it cleaner now that we have kids "in the mix"....but the mineral oil isn't really a pain for us since we regularly put it on our soapstone counters, too. Decisions...decisions...

[Jay Albrandt]

14 feet long, in one piece? There's some challenges. The biggest may be that you'll need to edge-joint planks which are 14' long. That's a jointer with an industrial length -- not the usual small-shop machine. A smaller issue is that you may not be able to buy planks which are 14' long. My dealers tend to stock 9 or 10 footers in 8/4 maple. I'd have to finger-joint planks together to get 14 footers.

Yeah! I am not looking forward to working with 14' of hard maple, but I can't find anyone locally that will do it. I can get 14 foot material, occasionally, but I figure I will just finger joint what I need. Also, I have my shop set up so my out feed support for the jointer is a little over 7'.

Thanks for your comments.

[Jay Albrandt]

Jamie, I agree with you, but getting them close with some outboard support and then having the whole slab sanded on a wide-belt is going to work just fine for a counter.

Jay, I'd probably use Titebond II or III...whichever I had handy.


Thanks for the comments Jim.

I was thinking that I could get the top "close" like you said, knock down the glue and big stuff with a belt sander then use my recently aquired 36" Woodmaster drum sander to handle the rest. Just have to have a few friends over to manhandle the top.

[Jay Albrandt]

Jay,
I have made a few of these and use Titebond with good success. Titebond 3 advertises that it's waterproof, but if you have liquids getting down in the joint far enough to matter, you got worse problems.

I also find it VERY useful to use dowels between the laminations to help register the pieces during glue-up, especially with it being so long. If you need more info, I can illustrate what I mean.

Have fun.

Steve,

The suggestion of dowels is a great idea, but I don't like the thought of drilling all those holes. I have a plate jointer that I like to use...what do you think of biscuits? What is your spacing for the dowel?

Thanks for the comments.

Jay

[Steve Strickler]

Steve,

The suggestion of dowels is a great idea, but I don't like the thought of drilling all those holes. I have a plate jointer that I like to use...what do you think of biscuits? What is your spacing for the dowel?

Thanks for the comments.

Jay
Jay,
I have a jig that I made to define the spacing on the pieces...it is quite simple, just registers the holes to the end of the board, so they are all consistently drilled. (ie. all the same spacing, both vertically and horizontally). I can't quite recall, but I think they are on 18" centers.

I use the jig to drill a small pilot hole which determines the spacing of the holes. Then, I take the piece to the drill press and make 1/2" holes. With this method, registration of the pairs are easy, even on a long set.

I don't recall anyone mentioning it but, it is also MUCH easier to glue them up in small batches. Glue 2 or 3 boards at a time, then join the subsets into a larger unit. It makes both the glue-up AND the handling MUCH easier!