DC Cartridge or Bag?

[Jeff Murphy]

I just ordered a JDS Dust-Force 1250 cfm DC for dedicated use on my new MM16(maybe some winter-time planing) and someone told me that cartridges are not good for bag-type collectors as they will constantly clog up and lose suction and should only be used on cyclones. The new DC will come with a 1 micron bag, but I ordered the cartridge as well, but I still have time to cancel(must do it very soon). I thought I would try the cannister to gain some cfm and ease of cleaning. I have a big 2-bagger in the main shop, but need to go this route for now. Your thoughts?

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

You may now want to hear this, so I'll say I'm sorry to start with...

I'm sorry

OK, cancel the order of the DC, and build or buy a cyclone.

I did the DC thing, and in the end it only cost me time and money until I moved on to a cyclone.

Again, not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to give you the benifit of my bad choice.

Cheers!

[Mike Weaver]

I have to agree with Stu...
-Mike

[Jim Becker]

Folks...Jeff's situation is unique and his choice makes sense. (This is a follow-up thread) His shop is in the basement. His MM16 is in the garage for now; hence, the decision to go with a smaller, dedicated single stage chip collector for now. For this machine, it will work fine, IMHO. For his full shop...I agree that the cyclone is the way to go.

Jeff, for the BS, I don't think you're going to get the clogging of a cartridge filter that you would certainly get with a sander. So I personally wouldn't have an issue with using the cartridge in this application...or a very high quality filter bag. Being able to use disposable plastic bags (or a bin) on the bottom will make disposal easy and "cleaner"...you don't want to have to be "emptying" the bottom bag if you can avoid it.

[Ken Belisle]

About 2 years ago, I wanted to swap out the cloth bottom bag of my Penn State unit for the plastic bags since emptying them was a royal PITA. I was told that in order to do that I had to replace the top bag with the canister, due to total filter area or something like that. Made sense to me so I upgraded to the filter canister and the plastic lower bags. It might just be my imagination, but it seems to now draw more air due to the larger filter size and it sure seams quieter.

[Al Willits]

I just ordered the Dustforce and fwiw I held off on the cartridge, at $200 I'll see how the bag works first.

Ya, would have been nice to stick a 2 grand cyclone system in, but space and the fact my wood shop doubles as a garage made that choice difficult, sometimes the best, won't work.

Al

[Hoa Dinh]

I just ordered the Dustforce and fwiw I held off on the cartridge, at $200 I'll see how the bag works first.
The JDS Canister is about $200 else where but only $120 delivered from Amazon.

I just installed it for my G1029. Highly recommended.

-- Hoa

[David Pettibone]

Well Jeff, I have posted my opinion on this here before and may have been one of the guys who you read about saying the filters will clog. My motor burned out due to clogging and I was cleaning it constantly. Blowing it out at a safe range with my air compressor and taking it off and blowing it off outside. The particleboard stuck to the pleated filter and not just in the pleats. There is a sticky/gummy coating on the inside of the filters and good luck cleaning them.

As Stu said, I am sorry for raining on your parade also, but listen to what they've said. If you can afford a cyclone, get one and end it. I had 2 other collectors before purchasing my cyclone and at just over 40, I believe I will die with my clyclone. Jim Becker and Andy London helped me immensely in my purchase of the cyclone and I'm grateful to both of them for their time. I didn't know anything about cyclones until I found this site. If your cutting anything that is close to particleboard in micron size, you'll have a trip and a half trying to clean the filter. If you don't get it clean, you'll lose MAJOR draw (cfm's) and risk overheating the motor. Just my personal opinion. I hope it helps.:)

David

p.s. I still have the message on my answering machine from the rep telling me that I would have to turn the handle that turns the internal baffles...........are you sitting down..................after every cut!!!!!!

[Jeff Murphy]

Appreciate the input;) . Once again, I am not using the BS in my main shop, just in the garage for mostly resawing. I will eventually install a cyclone for my main collector. here is a older pic of my current setup, with the huge, custom bags tha AFF made for me. It works pretty nice, but a cyclone would be alot easier to clean out.
http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL544/716354/1398349/18093116.jpg

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Folks...Jeff's situation is unique and his choice makes sense. (This is a follow-up thread) His shop is in the basement. His MM16 is in the garage for now; hence, the decision to go with a smaller, dedicated single stage chip collector for now. For this machine, it will work fine, IMHO. For his full shop...I agree that the cyclone is the way to go.

Jeff, for the BS, I don't think you're going to get the clogging of a cartridge filter that you would certainly get with a sander. So I personally wouldn't have an issue with using the cartridge in this application...or a very high quality filter bag. Being able to use disposable plastic bags (or a bin) on the bottom will make disposal easy and "cleaner"...you don't want to have to be "emptying" the bottom bag if you can avoid it.

Jim, I was not aware that this was a follow up thread, sorry, but I still think that you would be "BETTER OFF" with no DC than with a DC.

The bandsaw does not throw a lot of dust like some tools do, the blade is not spinning at some unreal RPM making a huge amount of super fine dust.

My personal exp with this is that my shop was cleaner before I got the DC hooked up, as the super fine dust was not pumped around the shop each time the DC was switched on.

Jeff, if you are just cutting with the BS, I'd use a shop vac with a good filter before I'd use a DC, but that is just me.

Al W, I'm in Japan, and I don't have $2K invested in my cyclone :D

Whatever you do Jeff, clean air exchange in your shop is important, as well as a good dust mask.

Good luck, and make sure you take pics!

[Al Willits]

"""""""""

Al W, I'm in Japan, and I don't have $2K invested in my cyclone :D
"""""""

I understand that, but by the time I figured all the connections, hoses hangers, whatever I was pretty close, the KDS I will be using has by far less accessories than a complete system...also it moves out of the way when the wife parks her car, and I need the garage for other than wood working..

I agree...the cyclone would be the best if it will fit/work in the area you work in, but it doesn't always work.
Went though this when I was painting motorcycles too, a roof top vent system would have been nice, but just wouldn't work for me.

Al

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

"""""""""

Al W, I'm in Japan, and I don't have $2K invested in my cyclone :D
"""""""

I understand that, but by the time I figured all the connections, hoses hangers, whatever I was pretty close, the KDS I will be using has by far less accessories than a complete system...also it moves out of the way when the wife parks her car, and I need the garage for other than wood working..

I agree...the cyclone would be the best if it will fit/work in the area you work in, but it doesn't always work.
Went though this when I was painting motorcycles too, a roof top vent system would have been nice, but just wouldn't work for me.

Al

The "all the connections, hoses hangers, whatever" would be the same for a DC, built in.

If you are doing this in your Garage, where you can open the door and roll the bag Duster around, I guess that would be the way you make it work.

We are all working under different situations, so we do what we have to.

Good to see that most understand that for a built in system, a cyclone, if do able is worth it.

Cheers!

[Jeff Murphy]

Stu, I do not know if you have ever resawed 12" maple, but it creates quite a bit of dust. A shop vac does not cut it!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Not maple, but Sakura, without the cyclone hooked up, and the amount of dust is a lot, but the harmful super small stuff is a lot less than a SCMS, TS, or router puts out.

What I'm saying, and not very well I take it, is that the BS does not make a lot of the super fine dust, the stuff that gets stuck in your lungs for good, thus, I'd rather just sweep it up and be done with it. When you hook up a Bag DC, in my exp, each time you turn the bag DC on, it pumps the super fine, harmful dust around the shop.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/jackpot/bb_slicing2.jpg

Even with the cyclone hooked up, I get a bit of a mess, but, it is all larger stuff that can just be swept up, the smaller stuff is taken away.

Good luck, take pics!

Cheers!

[Jim Becker]

Stu, the MM16 has a 100mm (~4") DC port on it...a shop vac will not cut it for this machine. The table insert is also vented so that there is air flow, particularly when re-sawing.

[Mike Weaver]

Folks...Jeff's situation is unique and his choice makes sense. (This is a follow-up thread) His shop is in the basement. His MM16 is in the garage for now; hence, the decision to go with a smaller, dedicated single stage chip collector for now. For this machine, it will work fine, IMHO. For his full shop...I agree that the cyclone is the way to go.

Jeff, for the BS, I don't think you're going to get the clogging of a cartridge filter that you would certainly get with a sander. So I personally wouldn't have an issue with using the cartridge in this application...or a very high quality filter bag. Being able to use disposable plastic bags (or a bin) on the bottom will make disposal easy and "cleaner"...you don't want to have to be "emptying" the bottom bag if you can avoid it.

Guys, I sit corrected then. My apologies.
I agree with Jim (gee, don't I sound like a politician now... :D)

-Mike

[Per Swenson]

Maybe I am missing something.

I have the JDS and the cannister filter.

The filter has a cleaning arm that rotates a paddle

around the inside of the filter to clean all the fine dust.

I abuse my dust collector commercially.

Never had a issue. Now a cyclone would be nice,

but we have a 87 inch ceiling also.

Per

[David Pettibone]

try this. After you clean the filter by just using the baffle, take off the cannister and lay it outside on the driveway/or any flat surface. Then use your compressor and hit the outside of the filter with it, keeping the nozzle approximately 8 inches away. Then lift up the cannister and see what's underneath. Then do the same thing again at least 2 more times. Unless your filter defys the laws of physics, there will be a lot of dust left on the ground. I would say I had about 2-3 gallons plus of sawdust and I stopped blowing it out at that point.

Here's the kicker, I had already used the compressor on the filter before I took it off and did the same thing outside. Yes, I even used those clever baffles. When I had my issues arise with this unit, the place that did repairs for the unit said they don't work and they're a poor design because the filters get too clogged up. My filter was caked beyond belief and I cleaned it often. The channels of the filters were filled and the baffles di little if nothing to knock that stuff out.

Now if someone were to rarely use it, not meaning you, I could see it lasting a lot longer between cleaning, but eventually the filters get caked so much that very, very little air comes out. Having a filter at the end of a cyclone is a far different situation because such a small percent actually reaches the filter. I still have to clean my cyclone filter, but no where close to the amount of time spent on my 2HP cannister style collector.

I'm not trying to start any :eek: arguements:eek: here, nor am I looking for allies. This is my personal experience and those collectors aren't cheap. With all my problems, Jet gave me a refund and that money went towards a cyclone. I would've rather just worn a respirator mask with dust filters on the end versus buying that unit and going through what I went through. It was a lot of phone calls and problems for me, and if I had known about cyclones, that's what I would have waited and saved for.

Yes, I realize were all in different financial boats here, but me, I'd save and save before I spent 400-$500 on a cannister style DC. Double it and you've got yourself a dust collector that should be around for ages with little to no headaches. I am definitely in the minority here because there are a lot of guys who like their cannister style collectors, but not I. If they work for you, kudos to ya, but they didn't do it for my shop so I opted to save and wait for extra funds. Good night and good mental health!!!:)

David

[Doug Shepard]

OK - Just to muddy the waters further with my $0.02.
Stu - the size of the dust particles coming off the MM16 might not make it as harmful, but that one machine alone is what finally pushed me over the edge to doing the whole cyclone thing. Literally everything in my gashop get covered in a pretty fair layer of dust when resawing.

And Per - I'm sworn to secrecy until they finish testing, but there's a cyclone maker pretty close to rolling out a cyclone that would fit in your 87" (and less) space if you're still wanting a cyclone. I'll probably end up being one of the first owners if their testing pans out as expected. I'll be sure to post if/when I get one. I think it's going to happen in the next couple of weeks.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

And Per - I'm sworn to secrecy until they finish testing, but there's a cyclone maker pretty close to rolling out a cyclone that would fit in your 87" (and less) space if you're still wanting a cyclone. I'll probably end up being one of the first owners if their testing pans out as expected. I'll be sure to post if/when I get one. I think it's going to happen in the next couple of weeks.

Doug...you're still on the hook! :)
-Jeff