Best Buy scam

[Richard Wolf]

Didn't someone post a thread about a joke played on Best Buy stores in this forum? I am looking for it, but can't seem to find any clue of it. I guess it's the getting old thing.

Richard

[Stuart Johnson]

I guess it offended someone.

[john whittaker]

Yes...I saw it and thought it was funny...not offensive. Tried to show it to someone this AM, but it's gone.

But that doesn't mean your not getting old Richard....

[Dennis Peacock]

Yes...it's gone. It was getting to where folks were starting to throw jabs at each other and bickering was beginning over if it was funny or a serious business impact to the Best Buy store, so I removed it to prevent further bickering from member to member.

Case closed.:D

[Mark Rios]

Hey Dennis, where do you get off deciding what we can talk about and what we express as our feelings, huh? Are you some Best Buy investor or something, huh? I, for one, don't like my post being delelted just for expressing an opinion.



















:D :D :D :D :D :D I'm just teasing. I was enjoying the "discussion" and it was, in fact to me, an interesting social commentary with the variety of peoples feelings. I thought I'd continue the bickering for another post. An interesting change from the "MY TOOL COMPANY IS BETTER THAN YOUR TOOL COMPANY" thing.

Really, just teasing....just teasing.

Just makin' a funny..........please...........don't hurt me Dennis..............


:D :D :D

[Fred Voorhees]

Richard, if you really would like to see it, email me and I can send you a link to it. fredjv1@earthlink.net

[Richard Wolf]

Thanks Fred. Some other people have given me the link.

Richard

[Frank Chaffee]

Well Dennis,
Considering that you as a moderator are endowed with the power to delete individual posts that violate Sawmill Creek’s TOS and also entire threads, and that you chose to remove that thread, disturbs me greatly!

I was carefully reading posts made by my fellow and esteemed Creekers, and those posts expanded my view of this world we share.

Yes, I have opinions, but more and more as I age I find that other’s takes on social situations are valuable to me. I am nourished and enriched from having read what others stated regarding the Best Buy event.

I ask you to reinstate the Best Buy thread after removing posts that violate Sawmill Creek TOS.

Thanking you,
Frank

[Keith Starosta]

I normally stay out of these types of discussions, but I just feel compelled here. While I completely respect this site's TOS, the sensitivity and lack of a good 'ol fashioned sense of humor here (by some folks) is astounding! :eek:

I completely agree with what Frank just said. I was actually enjoying the conversation. In fact, after forwarding Fred's link to some friends, we actually started our own discussion along the same lines as seen.....or previously seen, here.

I've come to learn what Dennis' "line in the sand" point is with the content of a thread, and have been around internet BBs long enough to see it coming from a mile away. When I realized that this thread was destined for the crapper, I was upset.

- Keith

[Richard Wolf]

While I understand the TOS and repect the fact that no member should be offended or berated by another, I do find it offensive when the moderators act like the government and try to protect us from the real world.
Being a friendly cooperative forum is one thing, our need to be "Lilly White", (I hope that is not offensive) gets in our way of seeing other people's real personalities.

Richard

[Christopher Pine]

:) I somwhat agree at times. How will the thin skinned ever get a thicker skin if they are protected from being offended all the time? When somthing offends me I say so. Doesn't mean I am going to get a rifle and sit on a tower and take out people...

look I am nothing but pixels on a screen! :)

See... don't let it make you lose sleep!

Chris

:) You all have a wonderful weekend and lighten up!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

For the life of me I do not remember anything in that thread that would cause it to be pulled.

As far as I was concerned, we where having an interesting discussion, but, it was obvious that the people who thought it was funny and the people like myself who did not, were not going to agree, thus we would agree to disagree, I decided to no longer add anything to the thread, as I'd said my bit, but is was still civil, the last time I checked it.

Was there something that was not civil posted that I did not see?

Just my thoughts.

Cheers!

[Ken Salisbury]

The Off Topic forum is probably the most difficult forum we have to moderate. The question of what to allow and what not to allow is difficult to say the least.

Having said that, the moderators are not trying to be a "government enity" or a firewall to the "real world". The decision to edit, close or delete threads/posts is done at the discretion of the moderator(s) in accordance with the Terms of Service (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/terms.php):

"It is our policy to support the free flow of information in a manner best befitting the woodworking community at large. SawMill Creek
is an online community where woodworkers may come together to share and discuss a common interest. SawMill Creek reserves the right to refuse or delete any Content of which it becomes aware and reasonably deems not to fulfill it's established purpose."

Some of the decisions made are not necessarily accepted by everyone. However, an attempt is made to insure we abide by the above TOS statement.

The moderators are all volunteers who donate their time and effort to insure we remain a forum for all to enjoy and learn from. They have done a remarkable job in maintaining the integrity of Sawmill Creek and I personally applaud them all.

If a moderator makes a decision to edit/close/delete/move a thread/post it is deemed in their opinion to be in the best interest of SMC.

I urge everyone to trust those opinions since our moderation policies have served us well for more than 3 years and have made SMC the premium woodworking forum on the internet.

If you have a difference of opinion on a specific moderator action you would be better served to e-mail or PM that moderator for clarification of their actions.

Peeing contests are better served elsewhere on the net :).



http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/misc/moderator.gif

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks for the info Ken, and I hope you, and the other "Mods" know that we all do really appreciate the hard work and your donation of time etc.

I can accept and abide by the Mods choice of what threads to pull, or posts to edit, but, if it is OK with you, I'll question the "Why" sometimes.

For me, I've seen some threads go on that were getting at least nasty, that do not get pulled, while others, that seem to me to be just an honest difference of opinion get shutdown quick. I find this a bit difficult to follow, from time to time, but I also appreciate the trouble of each Mod making these types of decisions, so forgive me if I still, on occasion, question "Why".

Cheers!

[Mark Rios]

For the life of me I do not remember anything in that thread that would cause it to be pulled.

As far as I was concerned, we where having an interesting discussion, but, it was obvious that the people who thought it was funny and the people like myself who did not, were not going to agree, thus we would agree to disagree, I decided to no longer add anything to the thread, as I'd said my bit, but is was still civil, the last time I checked it.

Was there something that was not civil posted that I did not see?

Just my thoughts.

Cheers!
:D


No....now wait Stu........you were offensive! I didn't at all care for the tone of your typing. The way you banged on your keyboard while voicing your "opinion" about the fun-filled prank at Best Buy was very hurtful to me. Now, while I think you are a big enough man to apologoze, I think an appropriate way to say that you're sorry would be to swim over here to California and apologize in person. Yup, that would show me. Do I hear a splash yet?


Obviously I'm teasing Stu. But I'm trying to make a point (albiet perhaps a very obscure and subtle one :rolleyes: ). As a very small guppy here in the Creek (or am I a larva?) I read alot of these types of discussions and I see alot of very tender feelings and thin skins. I see some stuff that I don't agree with and even a thing or two that may be directed at me. But I'm a big boy, as we all are, and I know that we will disagree and I don't get offended. Our society today seems to be heading in the direction of it being against the law to get offended and people get offended by sillier and sillier things. "Oh, I have to work with someone that never wears the right color shoes! I need a big lawsuit settlement and some personal days off."

To bring my point back here to the Creek, we pay money (maybe more now?) to make this place our own. With 8000+ members/friends here shouldn't we understand that we can be very protective of our opinions yet realize that they are just that, opinions? Unless someone says "So-and-so, you are a doo doo head" and So-and So says back "Oh yeah, well you are a bigger doo doo head", then, I feel, we should be able to find out more about our friends here by reading how they feel about stuff!

I didn't realize that Stu would feel the way that he did about the BB thing. I was very suprised. But now I know a little more about him. If I ever get to visit him, I know not to bring him a gift from Best Buy. :D Every time we read between the lines about what we all type in here, we learn a little more about each other and we grow. I WANT to hear if my thinking is misguided or off base and I WANT to hear about what OTHER people think about stuff. I won't know any different if I don't read/hear anything different. I don't want to be a bonehead ALL my life.

I say, Let's lighten up and not only agree to disagree but also be friends enough to let each other disagree. We are plenty civil enough in here. We can take it.

And I also thank the mods and staff. They do a job that I will never be good enough to do. Thanks very much.


Now....how much more money do I have to pay?

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

:D ............Unless someone says "So-and-so, you are a doo doo head" and So-and So says back "Oh yeah, well you are a bigger doo doo head", then, I feel, we should be able to find out more about our friends here by..............

:D

Well that's it, now I'm POed!! I've been called a lot of things in my life, but a "bigger doo doo head...." ??

Well that just tops it ;) :D

Not going to rehash the BB thing, I made my NSHO known, for those who cared to read it.

About having others challange your ideas and opinions, I too think this is paramount to growth as a person. One of my best buddies here in Japan is a total leftwing kook rich white East coast lib, BIG TIME, and we take each other on over just about every issue you can imagine, but we are VERY good friends, as we have a lot of repsect for each other, and we enjoy honing our skilling in debate against each other. He is brilliant, and a total wordsmith, blows my mind all the time, thus, he is an ecellent foil for my arguments. Just an example of how two very opposite people can get along on the important levels, but disagree strongly on some stuff.

Cheers!

PS you would not only hear a "splash, but you would see the wave coming you way!" :D

[Julio Navarro]

Well that's it, now I'm POed!!

:eek:WOW, it really is a peeing match!:p:D

[Dennis Peacock]

So...what's the real problem here?
That I pulled a thread that was heading in the wrong direction?
That I need to let more stuff stand in the OT forum and wait for them to get totally out of control before anything gets done because people like reading about other people getting mad, into trouble, causing trouble, and / or dishonest? Such as society today. Keith, Aaron, or Ken, you are welcome to pull this post or thread. I don't care.

If you want this type of content in the OT forum?

Then you will need a new moderator.

I don't get paid for this, I spend a lot of personal time making sure things stay within the guidelines that SMC has put forth, and I put up with a lot of PM's, dog-cussings, and emails from people that think that no matter what they put on the forum that it should always remain and think that I'm attacking them personally. I've been doing this for 3 years now, and if I'm not doing the job that SMC wants? Then I quit.

Oh...BTW, I've reported my own post to the other moderators. :D

Thanks for listening.

[Ned Bulken]

sometimes posts get out of hand and get deleted Personally I thought that thread was just about on par for 'the basement' over on woodnet.

Dennis, and all of the Mods here are very unobtrusive compared to other forums I visit.

[Mark Rios]

Well, if Dennis quits then I quit too!

If all you meanies out there are gonna send bad and mean PM's to Dennis just because he's trying to do his volunteer job for us then, by golly............................................. ................well............i don't know what to say.

Seriously, Dennis PLEASE don't quit. Please come back. We love you and the job that you do.








Come here Dennis........I have candy for you.;) ;) ;)

[Dennis Peacock]

Well, if Dennis quits then I quit too!

If all you meanies out there are gonna send bad and mean PM's to Dennis just because he's trying to do his volunteer job for us then, by golly............................................. ................well............i don't know what to say.

Seriously, Dennis PLEASE don't quit. Please come back. We love you and the job that you do.

Come here Dennis........I have candy for you.;) ;) ;)

Sorry Mark.....I'm not drawn to candy. I don't like sweets. ;)

[Glenn Clabo]

Dennis...
Don't let a few people get to you. You are doing one GREAT job and we need you.
THE reason I like this place is because it's the only place left where people don't (in some cases...aren't allowed to) take great pride in seeing how far they can push the envelope of civility. If I want an arguement...or want to state my opinion outside of the woodworking world...there are many...many...many places to do that nowadays. Actually...far to many for my taste.

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis...
Don't let a few people get to you. You are doing one GREAT job and we need you.
THE reason I like this place is because it's the only place left where people don't (in some cases...aren't allowed to) take great pride in seeing how far they can push the envelope of civility. If I want an arguement...or want to state my opinion outside of the woodworking world...there are many...many...many places to do that nowadays. Actually...far to many for my taste.

Mine too Glenn. Mine too.

[Lee DeRaud]

So...what's the real problem here?
That I pulled a thread that was heading in the wrong direction?Dennis, I really don't think that's the issue, or at least it never has been for me personally.

The sudden "disappearing" of a thread always brings up these kinds of questions, and most of the time spawns yet another thread asking what happened and why. IMHO, the right way to handle it would be to (1) remove any egregiously unacceptable posts (although it sounds like it hadn't gotten to that point yet), (2) put in a short post to the effect that the thread was getting out of hand, and (3) locking the thread to further responses. Unless there is something seriously wrong with the moderating software, this shouldn't take too much time or effort.

At about this point of the discussion, either Keith or Ken usually comes along with a post that explains that (1) the moderators are volunteers, (2) the moderators are overworked, and (3) the TOS doesn't require them to explain their actions. Fine. But what strikes me every time this happens is that there is a lot more effort spent explaining why a thread got yanked and trying to justify that action, than it would take to do the right thing and circumvent the whole problem in the first place. Am I the only one who sees this?

Thus endeth the sermon.

And I for one really don't want you to leave.

[Dennis Peacock]

The sudden "disappearing" of a thread always brings up these kinds of questions, and most of the time spawns yet another thread asking what happened and why. IMHO, the right way to handle it would be to (1) remove any egregiously unacceptable posts (although it sounds like it hadn't gotten to that point yet), (2) put in a short post to the effect that the thread was getting out of hand, and (3) locking the thread to further responses. Unless there is something seriously wrong with the moderating software, this shouldn't take too much time or effort.

At about this point of the discussion, either Keith or Ken usually comes along with a post that explains that (1) the moderators are volunteers, (2) the moderators are overworked, and (3) the TOS doesn't require them to explain their actions. Fine. But what strikes me every time this happens is that there is a lot more effort spent explaining why a thread got yanked and trying to justify that action, than it would take to do the right thing and circumvent the whole problem in the first place. Am I the only one who sees this?

Thus endeth the sermon.

And I for one really don't want you to leave.

Lee,

Early on, I was overly cautious about what to leave, so I pulled a couple that should have stayed. With 3 years experience under my belt, I have a very good idea of how something is going to go based on repeated posts by returning posters (much like this thread!!). If the pattern keeps repeating and the thread gets closer and closer to the edge of the cliff? I remove the thread. When people begin aiming their comments "at" each other, that's also a time for me to watch carefully, and if it's beginning to get out of hand? I remove the thread. Maybe I'm getting out of hand here....so maybe I should pull my posts. :p :D

Over the months, I've tried a few different ways to deal with things in hopes to keep things fairly moderated. Sometimes it worked and many times it wouldn't work.

There are people from all walks of life and geographical locations that read / post here on SMC.

If I have offended anyone here about pulling a post? I'm sorry.

[tod evans]

dennis, i`ll argue with you.....whatca wanna argue `bout?

[Dennis Peacock]

dennis, i`ll argue with you.....whatca wanna argue `bout?

Shoot...I don't know....pick sumpin..!!!!!

[tod evans]

Shoot...I don't know....pick sumpin..!!!!!

ticks are awfull thick this year.

[Lee DeRaud]

Lee,

Early on, I was overly cautious about what to leave, so I pulled a couple that should have stayed. With 3 years experience under my belt, I have a very good idea of how something is going to go based on repeated posts by returning posters (much like this thread!!). If the pattern keeps repeating and the thread gets closer and closer to the edge of the cliff? I remove the thread. When people begin aiming their comments "at" each other, that's also a time for me to watch carefully, and if it's beginning to get out of hand? I remove the thread. Maybe I'm getting out of hand here....so maybe I should pull my posts. :p :D

Over the months, I've tried a few different ways to deal with things in hopes to keep things fairly moderated. Sometimes it worked and many times it wouldn't work.

There are people from all walks of life and geographical locations that read / post here on SMC.

If I have offended anyone here about pulling a post? I'm sorry.(beats head on desk) One more time...

Dennis, I'm not questioning your judgement, but it's not a question of "what" or "why", it's a question of "how". Having threads simply disappear like that just ends up making more work for you and the other moderators.

[Cecil Arnold]

Just an off the wall question, but how about just locking the thread? Seems that would leave the comments but stop the Pi..ing contest.

[Jason Roehl]

Dennis,

I would have to agree with Lee here. We don't question whatever line the moderators draw with regards to a thread (some may disagree, I don't care what that line is). The real issue is that the threads disappear, so members can't necessarily get a feel for what caused them to go wrong. Say, for instance, someone reads a thread at 7 AM one day, and all is fine. The next day at the same time, they look for it again, only it's gone because it went south at lunch hour the previous day (after they had read it for the day). They don't know why it was'nt good for SMC because it was deleted. If it were locked before it got out of hand (but was headed in that direction), then it would still be available to read and most of us could get a feel for where the line in the gray area is--not just so we stay away from the line, but so we can encourage others to "not go there" as well.

Overall, it would give less of an impression of a "heavy-handed Big Brother" moderator. (I'm not saying you are, that's just how some perceive moderators when they delete threads).

A simple "Clean it up or it gets locked" warning may work wonders, or "Gone too far, thread closed, some posts deleted..." could work as well.

Maybe you've tried that and it hasn't worked, I haven't noticed, but I also don't have any feedback on whether I have crossed the line, either...locked but not deleted threads could be that feedback.

Just my thoughts, Mr. Moderator!

[Dennis Peacock]

ticks are awfull thick this year.

I can't argue about that......I've stepped out of the car and into some tall grass only to discover that I was covered from the waist down with Seed Ticks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D So I AGREE!!!! :rolleyes: :D

[Dennis Peacock]

Jason,

You've known me for a while now. I even think you know my heart to a point. It would suite me just fine if I had a way to make EVERYBODY on SMC happy. But I can't seem to do that.

I send PM's and such but that works...sometimes.
The worst thread I've ever had to deal with is this stupid Best Buy Thread. Over something as silly as a prank played on a single store, and people start telling folks....oh...never mind.

Anyway......I'll see what I can do to be a better moderator in the days ahead.

[Jason Roehl]

Not good enough, Dennis. I expect all moderators to please ALL the people ALL the time. :D

I haven't noticed any ticks, but I haven't been in the woods or tall grass yet this year, either.

Have a good one...this, too, shall pass...

[Vaughn McMillan]

ticks are awfull thick this year.
Apparently, so are some posters. ;)

- Vaughn

[Don Baer]

Apparently, so are some posters. ;)

- Vaughn

To quote Larry the Cable Guy "Now thats funney, I don't care who your are.."

[Mark Pruitt]

Dennis,
Lee (and Jason) have what sound to me like some pretty solid ideas, but I also know that it's so incredibly easy to say "I would have done ___ differently." I posted a couple of messages in the thread that got pulled, and yes I had some pretty strong feelings about the original subject. BUT--I ain't the Moderator. You are! And as has been pointed out, it's a voluntary thing. I might disagree with your decision to pull the thread, but when I stop for a moment and ask myself, would I be willing to give the kind of time and energy required of a Moderator, the answer is, I probably wouldn't be ABLE to do it. SO.....I respect your judgement. And maybe you'll do things a little differently in the future, or maybe not. It's OK either way. We're always learning. And as excellent as the talent is that is represented in these forums, ain't NONE of us perfect!!!

Short version: I vote that you stay.:)

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Dennis,
Lee (and Jason) have what sound to me like some pretty solid ideas, but I also know that it's so incredibly easy to say "I would have done ___ differently." I posted a couple of messages in the thread that got pulled, and yes I had some pretty strong feelings about the original subject. BUT--I ain't the Moderator. You are! And as has been pointed out, it's a voluntary thing. I might disagree with your decision to pull the thread, but when I stop for a moment and ask myself, would I be willing to give the kind of time and energy required of a Moderator, the answer is, I probably wouldn't be ABLE to do it. SO.....I respect your judgement. And maybe you'll do things a little differently in the future, or maybe not. It's OK either way. We're always learning. And as excellent as the talent is that is represented in these forums, ain't NONE of us perfect!!!

Short version: I vote that you stay.:)

Ditto!

You do a great job Dennis.

Thank you very much!

[Dennis Peacock]

OK....I'm staying....Thread Locked. :p