Blank Page Issue Is Intolerable - Let's Talk

[Keith Outten]

The problems we have been experiendcing for the last week or so has gotten almost intolerable. I hope we will be able to do some in depth dgiagnostics to determine the extent of the probl e m a n d w or k w i t h o u r band width Providers Net work Operations Center (NOC) in an effort toa fmakf e any chagnges necessary to resolve the issue once and for all very soon.

I also know that we ndeed to upgrade ourf main cable from the access bdox ato our second story shop officae, I simply haven't hafd the time lately given my personal schedule. I will try to acquire thea necessary acable tfhis weekend and find sofme time and a suitable route for the replacfement cable ASAP.

Wde kdnow that our badndwidtdh provider (Cox Cable) has been having technical problems thoughout Eastern Virginia for some time and I am sure that we are in needd dof dda new serverd giaven the age and alodfad on our currenat machine. We ado have the funds to fprocure a snew server but it will put a serious dent in our reservesd. If wde mustd add another bandwidth pipe fin the near term and sigfsn a second contract this will also impact our funds, this is an issue that I know wde will havde to deal dwith at sodame point dasd our ddMedmbdership and Guest aaccess continues to grow.

I had hoped when we moved the SMC server to my shop office that we would be able to compensate Aaron Koehl for the time he spends maintaining our hardware and software however monthly donations have been very low and the percentage of our Members who contribute is much lower than I expected. Aaron has continued to work without benefit of any financial compensation which is very kind but we should not expect him to do so forever.

Our Members who have contributed have been extremely generous and we all appreciate their support as they have been the driving force behind our ability to remain online and to serve the woodworking community without having to resort to an advertising source of income. I would guess it is obvious to everyone here that in order for us to grow and if we expect to continue to support the huge number of guests that visit The Creek we need to compensate our System Administrator, be able increase our bandwidth and server capacity and retain the necessary financial reserves to keep SMC healthy. With over 8,000 Members this should be a snap if only 25% of our Membership would become contributors at just 50 cents per month.

Most of you know that I personally dislike even having to consider advertising revenue as a source of funds. If we rely on advertising then we all must accept more Moderation, you cannot bite the hand that pays the bills. It is possible to raise in the neighborhood of $20,000 per year via advertising which would fund The Creek in grand fashion but the atmosphere would definately change, we would all have to accept a "Boss".

Here is my plea;

Guests - Please register, become Members and contribute both to the content of our Forums and our financial needs.

Members - Please become contributors.

For less than the cost of one magazine, an annual donation of just $600 will help us to keep the Creek online, healthy and advertising free.

Constructive comments are welcome.

.

[Jack Ferrell]

Ok, I'm in. Please keep up the good work.

[Art Mulder]

Keith... what are the reasons that the server is being kept in someone's office, rather than having space in a managed facility. (big UPS's, Big network pipes, lots of redundancy, etc)

Is it stricty cost, or convenience also? How much bandwidth do we consume?

[tod evans]

i`ll chip in again if necessarry, but if advertising is accepted i`m outta here! somebody pipe up if ya`ll want a dollar a month instead of .50, or even 2 bucks.....but please keep the adds out..02 tod

[Mike Sheppard]

Keith
I have enjoyed the site for some time, it's time I kicked in. Don't like paypal so will get a check off today.
Mike Sheppard

[Keith Outten]

Keith... what are the reasons that the server is being kept in someone's office, rather than having space in a managed facility. (big UPS's, Big network pipes, lots of redundancy, etc)

Is it stricty cost, or convenience also? How much bandwidth do we consume?

Art,

When our Internet business closed it's doors last October we had looked into finding another comapny to take over The Creek because I couldn't afford to pay the bills out of pocket. My sign business may be able to assume the costs as a sole sponsor sometime in the future but right now that is impossible. At the very last moment when we were planning the final days of Hampton Roads Online the Members of SawMill Creek decided that they wanted to keep the Creek as it is and I offered to move it to my shop office based on a massive response from our loyal Members. The option to move our server to another professional host seemed impossible since we didn't have a secure financial base, remember we accept donations and are not a subscription based service.

I was hesitant to sign a contract with the cable company given our situation, I agreed to based on the overwhelming support we received. What people don't know is that in order for me to continue to run SawMill Creek which was owned by Hampton Roads Online I had to personally assume all of Hampton Roads Online's debt before closing the doors. Otherwise the sale of SMC would have more than covered our closing costs and financial obligations.

So I assumed all of HRO's debt and transfered it to my sign business. I pay the bill every month to the bank from my business profits, and I am glad to do so in order to keep SMC alive. I think you can see that assuming additional contractural obligations and moving SMC to a professional service was more than I could do at the time and the most conservative approach was to move our server to my shop office to keep our bills (and contracts) as low as possible.

Currently we are maintaining a reasonable response time on our cable connection, in the future we will definately have to move to a fiber optic line when the service becomes available . We just hope that it will happen before we need to add another cable pipe and have to sign another one year contract for an additional line.

The debt I have assumed is already way beyond the call of duty for someone of my financial means and I cannot provide the funds to pay Aaron Koehl for his services. Aaron has never asked for a penny but I honestly feel he deserves to be compensated for his efforts. Another benefit of having a paid Administrator is that it would take a big load off of my shoulders having someone else to be responsible for The Creek and allow me to spend more hours getting my sign business to the point of being able to supoprt my family. Right now I have a day-job but I am a temporary employee with no benefits and the end is very near as the project I am working on is almost complete.

It was absolutely insane for me to assume tens of thousands of dollars in debt to keep an online Forum that produces no revenue but Jackie and I decided that we wanted to try to keep the Creek if we could. Starting SawMill Creek was never about money or a business venture.

So there you have it, all the facts and the reason I am asking everyone for just a few pennies a year to help out.

For the record our bandwidth bills have already been paid through the end of the year and we are not in any financial trouble. We can also afford to build a new server from our existing funds so there is not any sense of urgency or fear of SMC closing...We are healthy thanks to those of you who have contributed donations since last October. The object of this message is to simply ask more of our Members to donate so we can compensate our System Administrator, a task that is now beyond what is reasonably expected of a volunteer.

.

[Jim Becker]

Money on the way. And praying to the FIOS gods that the fiber gets to you sooner, rather than later. (And that my own fiber gets lit soon, too...)

[Keith Outten]

Money on the way. And praying to the FIOS gods that the fiber gets to you sooner, rather than later. (And that my own fiber gets lit soon, too...)

Jim,

The phrase "Let there be light" takes on a whole new meaning these days :)

GRIN...

[Jim Becker]

The phrase "Let there be light" takes on a whole new meaning these days

Yup...and the 2-5mb of bandwidth UP is what makes it the cat's meow for the server application...at very low cost. (In this case, it would be a shop cat, of course...) The 10-20mb down at the end user is less important from a practical standpoint since most Internet resources can't keep up with that, anyway.

[Joe Mioux]

Keith, Jackie and Aaron;

Thanks for all you do! I was planning on contributing this October. I suspect many others had/hve the same plan.

However, with that said, I will happily do it now.

Thanks Joe

[Jamie Buxton]

The problem for me with unorganized contributions is this... I'm happy to send money to support this site, but I don't have any idea when SMC needs money, or how much I should send. Can anybody think of some way to answer those questions?

[Mike Ewalt]

we would all have to accept a "Boss" Keith I think all of the "creekers" already have the three bosses we prefer on this forum:D . Red flag is up on the mail box. Hope it helps out a little.

[Jim Tobias]

I am more than happy to help for what I get from this site!!

Jim

[Larry Klaaren]

Is it possible to set up an automatic monthly donation via PayPal or a credit card? Perhaps that information and the steps you take to pay by PayPal could also be put on the donations page.

Just my thoughts after taking a quick look at that page. I'll make a donation after I see your reply.

I personally would rather make a 5 dollar monthly donation than a yearly fifty dollar donation. I know it doesn't make financial sense, but it gives a better feeling for some people, especially at first.

Larry

[Bob Reda]

Count me in, I just sent a little something through paypal

Bob

[Jeff Myers]

Keith,
I'm not a PayPal user so I just printed off the address and will put
a check in the mail tomorrow a.m..
I'm more than glad/willing to support this forum , i've gained a lot of insight and just plain enjoy all the posts.
Let's keep this going.
-Jeff

[Ben Roman]

If you need hardware/software visit my website and let me know what you need. www.foxtec.com (http://www.foxtec.com)

Ben

[Cody Colston]

Kicked in a bit more via Paypal. It's a shame more of the 8000 members here and the many guests don't contribute.

[Jim Becker]

Is it possible to set up an automatic monthly donation via PayPal or a credit card?

I don't know about that, but most banks will do an automatic "payment" from your checking account each month.

[Doug Jones from Oregon]

For me, it would be very nice, and make it easier to contribute if we had an alternate method.

I will not use Paypal and I'm not even to sure where my check book is....let alone stamps and envelopes! Heck, the only reason I know where my bank is located is because it is located next to the Subway sandwich shop!

That said...I will look for a check and figure out the envelope/stamp thing.

Doug

[Allen Bookout]

I just ASTOUNDS me when I look at the post and see how many members there are that use this forum weekly or daily that do not contribute as compared to those that do contribute. I would be embarased, considering the amount of correct information that I obtain here, not to contribute.

If any of these people ever go to any other forums and see the amout of "You Suck" type of responses I do not think that it would be long before they would come back here and be willing to help with the support.

Therefore, I support a trial period for a new member at no cost and after that period is up a small semiannual fee. What do we have to lose? After all, a small percentage of us bear the burden of the cost anyway and we would stay and continue support while waiting for new members that would have the same commitment.

I know that this has been discused before by the powers that be and you have decided against it so I know that I do not have the full story. It is just that I get tired of going though post and seeing twenty or thirty members and one contributor.

I am a small contributor but I do it. During the last big drive I saw some contributors that put in large sums and it is not fair to them or even to me. I will continue to donate from time to time as this forum is much better than anything else on the web and deserves support.

I guess that there are just too many people that want something for nothing.

Allen

PS Just sent some more via paypal.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I'm in for some more as well.

Keep up the good work!

Cheers!

[Frank Fusco]

<<"bandwidth provider (Cox Cable)">>

Enuf said, re: problems.

Keep up the good work. Much appreciated.

[Frank Fusco]

i`ll chip in again if necessarry, but if advertising is accepted i`m outta here! somebody pipe up if ya`ll want a dollar a month instead of .50, or even 2 bucks.....but please keep the adds out..02 tod

What is objection? Commercial dollars is what makes the world go 'round.

[john hanes]

I for one don't mind seeing reminder messages when you need to increase the funding. We all need to be reminded every once in a while that the good things in life are not free.

Perhaps a short monthly report to keep us all in the know about what goes on behind the scenes??

[Bernie Weishapl]

Keith, Jackie, and Aaron,

There will be a check in the mail. I have gained a thousand times what I have paid in already in knowledge and answers on this forum. I have been to other forums and have quit them all. As Allen Bookout said they are not worth it. I am here and here to stay as long as Creek is here.

I agree with Todd about the ad's. I hate belonging to a e-mail site that when you go to read your e-mail as you go from message to message you have to go thru a ad first.

Thanks to Keith, Jackie and Aaron for all you do. I do appreciate it. Hope you get the fiber sooner than later.

[tod evans]

What is objection? Commercial dollars is what makes the world go 'round.

frank, i`ll continue to support the site as long as advertisers are forbidden, i won`t have my opinions edited by vendors or manufacturers, and quite a few of the vendor/manufacturers i don`t care for would be first in line with their checkbooks. there are plenty of other forums online who accept sponsors, i choose to refrain from chipping in my .02 on each-n-every one of them. i come to this forum as an old woodbutcher who`s been around the block a time or two, taken my licks, and choose to share some of my life experience with those who ask.
again, i can only speak for myself if the majority decide they`d rather save 15-20 bucks a year and have advertisers then go right ahead i`ll crawl back under the bridge and mind my own business.....02 tod

[Hal Peeler]

Just sent a payment. Thanks for the service!
Hal

[Don Baer]

I'm with Todd on this one, sponsership would mean censorship(is that a word?). I'll send some $$ this weekend when I return to California. I wanted to contribute last time but was unable too. Now with the California house sold I am in better shape. After all if I can contriute to getting Ken sucked into the vortex, I can certanly contribute to keep the log jams out of the creek.

[Sam Chambers]

Fundage sent via PayPal. Hope it helps!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I too am with Tod on this one.

I'll kick in whatever is needed, as I've saved a ton of money here with the good advice I get from many members.

The one thing that you could do, that I think would be a good thing is to not allow "Guests" to view pictures, this would, hopefully save you a ton of bandwidth and give some of those guests out there a nudge to become members, it is just a thought.

I'm on a bike forum that did just this, and our membership went way up, and the guests went down, and as people are now members, they don't seem to mind kicking is $5 a year to help the site (the bike site).

Anyways, I hope the coffers overflow, and Keith, don't wait till the next problem to speak up, many of us very much value the time and effort that Jackie, Aaron and yourself put into this place, and will support it if asked.

Cheers!

[Sam Blanchard]

:p I'm happy to become a contributor. I've already received way more than the value of my donation in the wealth of knowledge I've gotten from all at the Creek - I learn something every day.
Keith, thx for all your good efforts
I want to encourage all members to become contributors. YOU KNOW this is one of the best places you visit on the web - and you probably check in just about every day. Come on - give it up.

[Don Baer]

I also think anyone who has used the clasified section should step up and contribute. Particularly those who it seems to have joined just so the can sell stuff..

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I'm with Todd on this one, sponsership would mean censorship(is that a word?). I'll send some $$ this weekend when I return to California. I wanted to contribute last time but was unable too. Now with the California house sold I am in better shape. After all if I can contriute to getting Ken sucked into the vortex, I can certanly contribute to keep the log jams out of the creek.

BTW Don.........you've just added your name to my wife's list of people who got involved..........BE SCARED......BE VERY SCARED


I'm in.........This place is so unlike the other WW websites I've been member of before! I have gained so much from this site .......information.....friendship.........I can't imagine the Creek not flowing! And like others I don't want to see advertising or my email address given to another company...........Besides...my wife wants to know who ALL is responsible for my Bomb!:D

[tod evans]

mrs. fitzgerald the turning widow with a vandetta.........oh-oh:eek:

[Al Willits]

Not sure, but as a newbie I didn't know that a donation was desired/appreciated, considering most (that I know of)forums are sponsored by advertising, the thought never came up, so maybe its just a case of informing people that a little taste now and then would be a good thing?

Considering I've been both helped and met some pretty nice people, I'd be glad to send something....

btw, who and where do I send it to?


Al

[Mark Rios]

Not sure, but as a newbie I didn't know that a donation was desired/appreciated, considering most (that I know of)forums are sponsored by advertising, the thought never came up, so maybe its just a case of informing people that a little taste now and then would be a good thing?

Considering I've been both helped and met some pretty nice people, I'd be glad to send something....

btw, who and where do I send it to?


Al


Hi Al, To answer your question, just go to the otp of any page and to the left of the page, in the kinda darker blue header strip, is a "Donate" button. Click on it and you have two choices; One is to copy the email address "sales@north....." and use that at Paypal's site to donate through them. The second way is to just send a check to the physical address listed. Simple and, as Dino says, "EZ". :D

[Frank Fusco]

frank, i`ll continue to support the site as long as advertisers are forbidden, i won`t have my opinions edited by vendors or manufacturers, and quite a few of the vendor/manufacturers i don`t care for would be first in line with their checkbooks. there are plenty of other forums online who accept sponsors, i choose to refrain from chipping in my .02 on each-n-every one of them. i come to this forum as an old woodbutcher who`s been around the block a time or two, taken my licks, and choose to share some of my life experience with those who ask.
again, i can only speak for myself if the majority decide they`d rather save 15-20 bucks a year and have advertisers then go right ahead i`ll crawl back under the bridge and mind my own business.....02 tod

OK. Understand (potential) problem. Not sure it would translate into a real problem. Other forums I belong to some of the companies that take the hardest hits are strongest supporters. A company that earns criticizm (usually) learns from it an improves. One that would take the censorship routes, we don't need.

[Art Mulder]

It would be nice if another method of donating could be found.

Because really, the two choices only apply to Americans. Non-Americans really only have the paypal choice.

For me to use the snail-mail address, I would have to fork out about $5 to get a US$ money order cut at my bank. In my experience, most US banks are NOT set up to deal with someone walking in with a checque drawn on a non-US bank.

(In contrast, I can take a US$ checque to my local bank and they deposit it with no hiccups)

Does anyone on SMC know of a way to accept credit card donations through an organization other than PayPal?

...art
(who despite the above letter, gave up and registered with Paypal so he could donate)

[Mark Pruitt]

Keith,
This is something I've been meaning to do for some time. You know how it goes...we all have those "get a round tuit" lists. I got my round tuit; check's on the way.

I think contributions need to continue to be voluntary. I don't mind being asked for a contribution when it's a tangible, measurable benefit as SMC is.

Thank you for the time and effort you are willing to put in to make SMC rock and roll.
Mark

[Bob Noles]

Keith,

Since joining SMC, I have always tried to support and abide by everything you good folks have done and this is no exception.

Donation just sent by paypal and hope everyone here who has not done their part will consider doing the same.

[Mike Henderson]

Every so often (is it once a year or more?) public radio has a fund rasing. The Creek is like PBS in many ways. Why not have a fund raising every now and again, rather than only when things get desperate. Any business should have sufficient funds in the bank to cover unforseen events.

There are many ways to do fund raising, but I bet if you just posted a stickey with details of how to make the contribution, MANY people would respond. Just make sure you point out how to contribute - I know there's a "donate" button at the top of the page, but people miss it.

I know that you ask people to contribute $6 - why not up to to $10? I doubt that the difference would reduce the number of contributors and people like "round numbers".

And in addition to a contribution I want to add a really big "THANK YOU" for all your efforts in keeping the Creek going. Some of the money should be going to you to compensate you for all your work.

Mike

[Mark Rios]

I've decided to be very generous and donate all of my 1.6 cent refunds BACK to the Creek. There have been quite a few so they must add up to quite a bit. Keith and Jackie, just go ahead and keep the refunds. No problem.












Just teasin'. More dough comin". :D

[Al Willits]

Is it possible to put a short little header in each main topic to remind people that a little donation is a good thing?

Al

I may regret this but....:)

ps...whom do I make the check out to?

[Bruce Page]

Allen, I agree with almost every word you said.
With 8000+ members this shouldn't even be an issue!

Every community needs support or it will die. It makes no difference if its online or a municipality.

Keith, another donation sent via paypal.

Keep SMC free from advertisers!

[Christopher K. Hartley]

I just ASTOUNDS me when I look at the post and see how many members there are that use this forum weekly or daily that do not contribute as compared to those that do contribute. I would be embarased, considering the amount of correct information that I obtain here, not to contribute.

If any of these people ever go to any other forums and see the amout of "You Suck" type of responses I do not think that it would be long before they would come back here and be willing to help with the support.

Therefore, I support a trial period for a new member at no cost and after that period is up a small semiannual fee. What do we have to lose? After all, a small percentage of us bear the burden of the cost anyway and we would stay and continue support while waiting for new members that would have the same commitment.

I know that this has been discused before by the powers that be and you have decided against it so I know that I do not have the full story. It is just that I get tired of going though post and seeing twenty or thirty members and one contributor.

I am a small contributor but I do it. During the last big drive I saw some contributors that put in large sums and it is not fair to them or even to me. I will continue to donate from time to time as this forum is much better than anything else on the web and deserves support.

I guess that there are just too many people that want something for nothing.

Allen

PS Just sent some more via paypal.

Allen, I understand how you feel and can understand where your concerns are coming from. I have been using the Creek now for about five or six months.(the Turning Forum) I very seldom go anywhere else.

I too have benefited greatly from being here and will participate willingly; however, this is the first time I have heard a single word about the need. Please don't be so quick to be too hard on the nubies, if they are like me, then they probably didn't know either.

There will always be those who take advantage and there will always be those with needs. One shouldn't dampen the blessing of helping the other, who can't do more. The people I'm meeting here certainly do not demonstrate that they are takers but rather givers.

Do you think there might be a possibility that communication may be at fault? Well, at least to some small degree anyway.

I'm not comfortable with PayPal so if someone would tell me where to find an address I will get the funds on the way. Thanks for being patient with a new guy.:)

[Karl Laustrup]

Chris, if you look in the top right portion of the page, under your name you'll see Donate. Click on it and it will give you the snail mail address.

Also, might I suggest that you click on the New Posts once you log on. I used to go to each forum then discovered the New Posts. It has all the new posts for each forum and has some interesting stuff that you might not other wise see.

Karl

[Allen Bookout]

I too have benefited greatly from being here and will participate willingly; however, this is the first time I have heard a single word about the need. Please don't be so quick to be too hard on the nubies, if they are like me, then they probably didn't know either.


Christopher,

You may be right. It could partially be a communication problem. I remember that it was a while before I realized that this was a member supported organization.

How could I be too hard on a guy named "Hartley"? After all, that is where I grew up -- Hartley, Texas.

Allen

[Mark Pruitt]

I'm not comfortable with PayPal so if someone would tell me where to find an address I will get the funds on the way. Thanks for being patient with a new guy.:)
Chris, click "Donate" near the upper right part of the screen and you will see the snail-mail address. I mailed my check today.

[Marc Schmitz]

Greetings;
I had no idea this forum was a labor of love ;) Paypal sent
Thanks for all the information and one of the best Internet environments out there.
-Marc

[Mark Rios]

Way to go Marc! You da man! And to everyelse donating more than twice or three or more times.

And Welcome to the Creek.

[Michael Cody]

I am donating too -- but Keith -- go to PayPal and setup a reoccuring donation option ... Ellis over @ woodcentral did that, great thing, just click on a hotlink on the board, you are sent to a special paypal page, put in an amount, etc.. and PayPal sends the site a monthly payment. Best thing for cash flow..

Also tell Aaron we would understand the need to compensate at least some of his work so make it easier to donate. The donate button should have the info it has now and a hot link to paypal with your info already there so it's even easier to give you money which is the best way to increase the donations.

[Ted Shrader]

Keith -

Sent you a few $$$ via PayPal. Thank you and all the others for everything you do!

This place is well worth the self determined price of admission.

Regards,
Ted

[Jerry Ingraham]

I feel sheepish for not having done my part in 2006. This is a tremendous resource for me, as I'm sure it is for everyone, and I'm glad to do my part belated as it may be.
Jerry

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Chris, if you look in the top right portion of the page, under your name you'll see Donate. Click on it and it will give you the snail mail address.

Also, might I suggest that you click on the New Posts once you log on. I used to go to each forum then discovered the New Posts. It has all the new posts for each forum and has some interesting stuff that you might not other wise see.

KarlThanks Karl and Mark, I suppose had it been a snake it would have bitten me. I'm on track now.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

How could I be too hard on a guy named "Hartley"? After all, that is where I grew up -- Hartley, Texas.

AllenGoodnuf that it's Hartley but Texas makes it even better! I had a thought just a bit ago. Another factor is accountability. What if somewhere in our name header on messages and replies we had recognition of financial contributions? Something like: Minimum could be Bronze Level Member; Double, Silver; triple, Gold and anything above that Platinum. It would recognize and hold accountable at the same time. It wouldn't deprive anyone and if there was a true hardship case someone could donate in their name so they got the credit. that part would be anonymous. Just a thought.

[Mark Rios]

I feel sheepish for not having done my part in 2006. This is a tremendous resource for me, as I'm sure it is for everyone, and I'm glad to do my part belated as it may be.
Jerry


Hey Jerry, we like sheep here too!!!:D :D :D

[John Miliunas]

Hey Keith, you do realize this means I won't be able to stop at the bar on my way home from work next week, don't you???? :eek: Oh...That's right. I don't do that in the first place! :D In that case, just PP'd you a few drink's worth! :) Oh, and before I forget, you can also keep my "Moderator's" salary for this year, too! :rolleyes: :D Thanks for all you guys out there in VA do for us! Next to Bear Creek, this is my favorite Creek! :D :cool:

[Frankie Hunt]

Funds sent. Thanks for YOUR efforts!

[Glenn Clabo]

Hey Keith, you do realize this means I won't be able to stop at the bar on my way home from work next week, don't you???? :eek: Oh...That's right. I don't do that in the first place! :D In that case, just PP'd you a few drink's worth! :) Oh, and before I forget, you can also keep my "Moderator's" salary for this year, too! :rolleyes: :D Thanks for all you guys out there in VA do for us! Next to Bear Creek, this is my favorite Creek! :D :cool:

WOW!!!! You're giving up your big buck salary AND beer money.

For me John...Salary ya...beer...no way. ;)

[John Miliunas]

WOW!!!! You're giving up your big buck salary AND beer money.

For me John...Salary ya...beer...no way. ;)

Ahhhhhh Glen....I concur with your sentiment! I still have some beer $$$ left but, I just don't spend it at the bar anymore! Sheeeeeesh...If I had all the money back that I left at the damn bars, this fund drive would be totally unnecessary; I could fund it solo, as well as get that Harley I'd love, a big 'ol Stubby lathe and any number of other "toys"!!! :rolleyes: :o Had some fun (OK, had a LOT of fun!) but, in hindsight, load of dough literally "down the tubes"!!! :rolleyes: (So nobody ever accused me of having too many brains!) :) :cool:

[Jerry White]

Contribution sent. Thanks to Keith, Jackie and Aaron as well as all the moderators for all they do to keep this community going. I would not like to be without Sawmill Creek!!!!

[Curt Fuller]

Paypal contribution sent. Hope it helps keep this great site alive and well.

[Dave Boxmeyer]

I sent across a donation - thanks for the wonderful web forum.

[Bryan Somers]

I really enjoy visiting this site. Im not one to post allot but the times I have the responces have been fairly quick and informative. Now I just have to convince the SWMBO to write a check and put it in the mail.

Thanks for all you do Kieth and Arron.

[Larry James]

Keith,

The upper left side of the header says REGISTER for new members. The first screen asks for DOB. Why not have the first screen briefly explain how SMC is a member supported forum, and ask for donations. This may help solve the problem that seems evident by reading this “let’s talk” thread - as one member said : “...this is the first time I have heard a single word about the need...” New members may not donate at sign-up, but they will be aware of how this great forum is funded and may be more likely to donate in the future.

When I joined, last november, I had no idea why some members had “contributer” by their name - contributing content, not money, first came to mind. I’ve contributed 2 times since I joined, and I’ll send more - don’t change SMC - no ads! More PR about how members can support SMC.

There are many good suggestions in this thread, and a commitment by (some) members to pay for the knowledge offered, and the opportunity to share our opinions, praise, rants, good and bad times, etc. in a civil community.

For the non-contributers, duh :mad: .

I look forward to visiting this site every day, and it should be funded by proud members with contributer below their name, not Keith and company.

Larry

[John Shuk]

I'm in for a bit now and will continue to support later. Is the Creek a legit non profit? If so I can get matching funds as well from my employer. If we can't get you the fiber a little quicker at least I can get'em to help support a little.;)
By the way I understand that the price for 30mb service has been dropped to about $79 a month.

[Alan Turner]

I'm in for 2006. Keep up the good work.

[Rodney Randal]

I am an infrequent poster, but a very frequent visitor, lurker, consumer of information presented. I have sent my donation via PayPal, and THANKS to all who have any kind of support role in this fine organization!

Rodney

[Don Dean]

PayPal donation on the way as I hate blank pages and proud of my Saw Mill Creek hat. I receive more than I can give to the creek. Love the people on this forum; they really help us new woodworkers.

[Marty Walsh]

Keith,

Another PayPal payment sent. How could I NOT send an addtiional donation, given all the additional bandwidth my shop thread is taking up! :rolleyes:

Thanks for the creek...and for not polluting it with advertisers...

- Marty -

[Jim Becker]

By the way I understand that the price for 30mb service has been dropped to about $79 a month.

Only in certain markets...but the speeds have also doubled or increased in others...

[Tom Hamilton]

Well hey, we can't let a shortage of capital get in the way of a good idea.

PayPay on the way.

Several have suggested a reminder screen for regulars and an explaination screen for newbies. Sounds like a good idea.

Thanks for all you do to keep the Creek flowing.

Best regards, Tom, in Houston, hoping the fund raising sets another new record.

[Bernie Weishapl]

[quote=John Miliunas]Hey Keith, you do realize this means I won't be able to stop at the bar on my way home from work next week, don't you????

John won't give up my beer money:eek: but have 4 wood magazine sub's. One I don't read much will be dropped and those proceeds will go here instead. Got more info and learned more here than any magazine I have. Check is in the mail. Thanks again Keith, Jackie and Aaron.

[Al Willits]

OK, I've been told I had a great time in the sixties, and I'll have to take their word for it, but that great time may part of the reason I don't seem to be able to figure out who to make the check out to.
I did find the address, but unclear as to whom...???

Al who's still looking for all that free love he heard about....

[Todd Davidson]

Howdy ~

I love this site! If it wasn't for SMC I'd still be buying only Craftsman tools; still be purchasing my lumber from Home Depot; still be thinking that quality finishes are applied via aerosol can; still be convinced that drywall screws are a viable form of joinery; and (worst of all) not know of the joy of working with schlamaca. So..... count me (& Kim) in for another donation. And thank you Keith, Jackie, and Aaron!

In peace, Todd

Oh, FWIW, I'm all for keeping advertisement out of the Creek.

[Allen Bookout]

OK, I've been told I had a great time in the sixties, and I'll have to take their word for it, but that great time may part of the reason I don't seem to be able to figure out who to make the check out to.
I did find the address, but unclear as to whom...???


Al has a good point. I never noticed because I always use paypal but when I took a look at the Donate information there is nothing about who to make a check out to.

[Larry Cooke]

Another donation sent. I can't say enough good things about this site and all the stuff I've learned here. I only wish I lived closer and could physically help with the hardware - I'd do it in a hearbeat.

Thanks Keith and all here for that matter!

Larry

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Al has a good point. I never noticed because I always use paypal but when I took a look at the Donate information there is nothing about who to make a check out to. OK someone, who do we make it out to?:confused:

[Larry VanWinkle]

Hey real quick ... How does one contribute? I would prefer just sending a check, but to whom do I make the check and where do I send it? Thanks for your help.

Larry

[Glenn Clabo]

When you hit the "Donate" Button at the top of the page it says...
You can donate by PayPal by emailing your donation to;

sales@northwindassociates.com

Or you can send a check via snailmail to the following address;

SawMill Creek Woodworkers Forums
c/o Northwind Associates
8770 Little England Rd.
Hayes Va 23072

Thanks for supporting The Creek!!

[Art Mulder]

A lot of the discussion here has been about donating, and people chiming in on the fact that they did, which is great. However, Keith also asked for suggestions when he started this thread, and I've seen a few good ones go by, and I want to make a few of my own.

First, I agree with the suggestion above about limiting picture downloads to registered members. Is that possible with vBulletin software? It would certainly encourage people to become members, and during the registration process I also agree that people should be reminded/encouraged of the need for an annual contribution.

Just to see what the non-member sees, I tried Logging out to look at the front page. This is the main paragraph:



Welcome to the Sawmill Creek.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking
the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the
register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the
forum that you want to visit from the selection below.


I wonder about adding a paragraph here about just what SMC is. For example...

"SawMill Creek exists to provide a method for woodworkers to communicate. That is our one simple goal. There are many other benefits, such as our friendly atmosphere, which you will learn as you browse these pages. One thing you won't see is advertising, as the members have chose to fund this themselves."

Another idea is for the FAQ. What if we add an FAQ item that gently reminds people to donate:


"How is SMC supported: SMC is supported by the members. We decided that we would rather fund this ourselves than depend on advertising.

For less than the cost of one magazine, an annual donation of just $6.00 will help us to keep the Creek online, healthy and advertising free. Please use the Donate button in the menu bar at the top of every SMC web page."


Finally, I have noticed several people post who do not know how to donate. used to be one of them, in the first months after I joined. And I'm wondering why is it that people don't notice the Donate button. I suspect that we just visually "tune out" everything that isn't connected with the article we are reading.

So I expect that we'll have to patiently point out the donate button every now and then. That said... I wonder if we could improve the visibility of that item by changing the colour of that menu bar. Right now it is all the same "SMC blue", and it just blends in. What if the colour of that menu bar were changed - darker blue? Green? What would be a good bright colour that still complements the blue on the rest of the page?


Hope this helps.
...art

[John Hart]

Just Sent John Miliunas' beer money via Paypal. Now I gotta get back to work!!:o

Rock-n-Roll!!:)

[Hank Keller]

What's your opinion on this suggestion? I will make a donation for either $60 to SMC or to a hosting company (that I have used for the last five years) (that for $60/ year) that has the same bulletin board, is all maintained with no maintenance fees and has a 20GB transfer. This would allow Keith to focus on his business rather than the maintenance of this wonderful site and the donations could be used to pay for the admins that so deserve it.

[Al Willits]

"""""""""""
When you hit the "Donate" Button at the top of the page it says...
You can donate by PayPal by emailing your donation to;

sales@northwindassociates.com

Or you can send a check via snailmail to the following address;

SawMill Creek Woodworkers Forums
c/o Northwind Associates
8770 Little England Rd.
Hayes Va 23072

"""""""""

Yes, I see that, but which one of them names work for a check?

Does absolutely no good to send a check to someone who can't cash it, and that's what I'm hoping to avoid
Two names are possible, SCWF or Northwind, will either work or??

Al

[Jackie Outten]

Al,

Sorry for the confusion. You can make the check out to Northwind Associates.

Thanks.

Jackie

[John Miliunas]

Al,

Sorry for the confusion. You can make the check out to Northwind Associates.

Thanks.

Jackie

Jackie, you should have Keith or Aaron add that little tidbit to the snail mail blurb for those who don't see this post! :) Maybe you have the ability to do it yourself??? :)

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to get my garbage bag and start walking the ditches out here to collect cans. Need to collect enough to cash in and make up for my beer money that Hart just spent! :eek: :D :cool:

[Al Willits]

Thanks, checks in the mail.....er....well, it will be soon.:)

Al

[Randy Cox]

Paypal on the way...thanks for all you do guys.

Randy

[John M. Cioffi]

Keith,
My 2006 Contribution is now in the mail.
I usually don't get the luxury of posting very often, although I tune in a couple of minutes a day(break time).but anytime I need something, the answers always come forth. No one else could have had the vision you had & the drive you still have to give us more than we could ever have dreamed of in a forum community. This is truely a great community & I'm proud to be a small part of it.:D
Thanks to you,Keith,Jackie,Aaron,Ken S. & the Moderator Team,for your dedication & support to us all.
John

[Glenn Clabo]

[quote=Al Willits
Yes, I see that, but which one of them names work for a check?
Does absolutely no good to send a check to someone who can't cash it, and that's what I'm hoping to avoid
Two names are possible, SCWF or Northwind, will either work or??
Al[/quote]

Opps...sorry...:o...

[Jim Becker]

...and has a 20GB transfer.

SMC would blow that away in just a few days...this is one of the primary reasons it's not on a hosting site. The cost would be huge for the amount of traffic the site generates.

[Mike Forsman]

Donation sent. Thanks for everthing you do to keep the creek flowing.

[Art Mulder]

SMC would blow that away in just a few days...this is one of the primary reasons it's not on a hosting site. The cost would be huge for the amount of traffic the site generates.

I'm lost - doesn't every ISP contract either have limits on bandwidth, or charge for it? So, why is the bandwidth cheaper/unregulated where it is currently located?

[Ted Jay]

Got to page two of this thread.... and then went to Paypal and sent in a donation.

Another idea about advertisers:
How about giving them their own "page" that a member would have to physically click on to enter, but it could have the companies ads, specials or discounts.

Just like the Manufactures Forums where each vendor could have a page of ads and a link to their website. Make the pages non-interactive, for viewing only.

How many times have we heard of a vendor who has a discount going on for, lets say for Fathers Day, or some holiday sale. I wouldn't mind going in and viewing who is having what specials and so on, I just don't want pop-ups and scrolling banners. With 8,000 members and only 5% viewing their ads in a month, that's still 400 people and if only 10% purchased from them still comes out to 40 sales in a month. It may be worth looking into. Especially when you can actually show how many members and visitors come to The Creek on a daily basis.

Just throwing some thoughts and suggestions out there

Just want to say a big Thanks to Keith, Jackie, Aaron and anyone else in the background for the site, upkeep and hard work each and everyone of you do to keep this site up and running in addition to all your other day-to-day duties that keep you busy.
Regards Ted Jay

[Bryan Rocker]

Money sent via Paypal......It is time we the SMC community pool our resources and help these guys out. I am willing to bet a Krispy creme dougnut that each and every one of us has wasted more wood that would surprass the $6 donation they need :)

[Brian Buckley]

Check will be on its way Monday,

Brian

[Ernie Hobbs]

I've been coming to this site for a couple of years now. It's time I pony up a few bucks. I just sent something via paypal.

Ernie

[Jim Becker]

I'm lost - doesn't every ISP contract either have limits on bandwidth, or charge for it? So, why is the bandwidth cheaper/unregulated where it is currently located?
It depends on the contractual stipulations, Art. "Consumer" connections...especially cable modem...are closely monitored for upload consumption--they don't want you running servers. Business connections are expected to have servers and are not usually capped. Also, the original idea I was addressing was for a hosting service...that's where you rent space and bandwidth on someone else's server farm to "host" your site. The high bandwidth/transfer rate that SMC demands (this is a very, very busy site...just look at the statistics that Keith posts monthly in the Support Forum) would be very, very expensive in a hosted environment. We are also at the point that we need to start using more than one server to maintain efficiency in serving content...one to run the forum software and one to run the database where the posts and attachments are stored. Again, in a hosted environment, this growing demand would be very expensive. Many, many hundreds of dollars per month.

My personal sites are hosted with a provider. They allow (currently) 30gb per month of transfer. One 6 minute extremely compressed video (our Christmas video of the girls) blew that away in February after I posted it...so my $4.95 monthly cost was exceeded that month by...about $30.

So keeping SMC on "our own servers" on a business grade connection is likely the most cost effective solution. Hopefully, Verizon's FIOS will "get available" in Keith's location soon as that is a direct fiber to the prem Internet connection at considerably higher bandwidth than is typically available for low cost. A business account with 5mb up and 5mb down costs about a hundred bucks...that's the bandwidth equivalent of 3 T1 connections which typically cost about $400-1000 a month...

But if it looks like the fiber solution isn't going to be available "in time", Keith may need to add a second business cable modem connection with the service available currently. The upside is more bandwidth. The downside is that it requires another annual contract, meaning it could delay a move to fiber later.

[Ian Barley]

I will happily chip in whatever is needed - BUT - I have a concern that the way this is constituted is causing a basic problem for Keith et al which it shouldn't.

I understood the close connection between SMC and HRO because of the nature of HRO's business. It was the sponsor so the fact that the two fell under the same entity made some sense. However it clearly caused Keith grief in the longer term which should be avoided if it can be. I see no reason why it should be necessary for Keith and Jackie to accumulate debt while we all reap the benefits.

Why is SMC not a seperate entity? I know that i am in a different jurisdiction and operate under different laws but could a corporation not be formed to "own" SMC on behalf of its members. If its a case of buying shares I for one am in. In the UK I could start a limited liability company same day and it would then be responsible not me. Can anybody explain why this is not a viable option?

I am also unconvinced on the location of the hosting. I can get a root server with unlimited bandwidth for about £130 ($250 ish) a month. I have no idea what the spec that is running this server at the moment is but the price above is for 3+ gig processor, 2Gb memory and a 400Gb (2*200Gb) raid array. I suspect that this spec would need to be pushed but it must be worth investigating this option further before renewing or increasing any contracts for existing service. Machines like this are in big, serious, well connected data centres with very high reliability. And surely they would make Keith's and Aaron's and Jackie's life less complicated. Heck there is enough talent on here to organise some kind of rota to share the duties isn't there?

Again. None of the above is criticism. It is just that we have applied sticking plaster to these problems before and now we discover that more is needed. I just feel that we should make sure we understand the problems and address them rather than understanding the symptoms and compensating for them.

[Art Mulder]

It depends on the contractual stipulations, Art. ...
The high bandwidth/transfer rate that SMC demands (this is a very, very busy site...just look at the statistics that Keith posts monthly in the Support Forum) would be very, very expensive in a hosted environment. We are also at the point that we need to start using more than one server to maintain efficiency in serving content...

Jim,
thanks for the clarification. I went digging on the support forum and found the stats for March 2006. If I read that right, SMC served 83Gb of bandwidth, just over 2.5Gb per day.

Yeah, that would cost. Sounds like you need a fair bit of RAID storage as well?

Keith, FWIW, I have 15+ years of Unix Sysadmin experience, mostly Solaris and Linux. If you ever get stuck, feel free to ask for a hand.

best,
...art

[Von Bickley]

Keith,

For the non-contributers, duh :mad: .

Larry

The Non-contributer may have problems that you haven't thought about.
I've had heart attacks, heart problems, by-pass surgery and haven't worked since Feb. 2005, and have zero income, duh.

[Keith Outten]

When I ran Hampton Roads Online I had some experience with server farms and other very large hosting companies. Several of the high traffic web sites that we hosted would try to move to server farms to save money which more often than not didn't work out. Because their web sites had such a huge amount of traffic their new host either couldn't get their web sites working or they hooked them and then raised their rates because of their data transfer.

One of my customers would leave twice each year, we left all of his data on our server knowing that he would be back in less than two weeks. The bottom line is that most web hosts profit from sites that use minimal resources and will lose money on any site that has a high traffic rate. When their bandwidth is plentifull all is well but when their network load starts to strain and they need to purchase additional bandwidth they find it more cost effective to dump their high traffic customers.

Undoubtedly there are exceptions to the rule but generally speaking you get what you pay for in this world. Moving a web site like SMC isn't a small task either and using a remote host means less access to their server and major compromises when you need to configure your software. Owning our own server has a few drawbacks but it does make it easier to administer and perform maintenance on the machine. While we don't have the revenue that the big guns have we do a few advantages over the long haul.

The problems our bandwidth provider has been experiencing over the last few weeks are troublesome and aggravating but they will be resolved and things will get back to normal. The cost of our bandwidth is not a major concern, we receive a fair service for the price we pay. For years I purchased a T-1 pipe connected directly to a nationwide backbone with a guaranteed CIR. The T-1 was very expensive but absolutely reliable throughout the ten years we contracted the service. Our current cable company connection does not have a Cetified Information Rate, we get what we get basically but the price is affordable and the performance since November 2005 has been very reliable.

The issue that I am concerned with right now isn't our bandwidth bills or the cost of building a new server. My feelings are that we need to start paying our System Administrator for the time he spends keeping our hardware and software up to speed. Because this job requires a certain amount of dedication and there is responsibility that goes with the job that places a burden on him or her to keep everything running, financial compensation is only fair.

Currently Aaron is a volunteer, if he goes on vacation or is unavailable for some reason and the SMC server goes down I don't feel it is fair to interfere with his personal time and nag him to get our server back online. Even a part-time paid Administrator would not be expected to leave his day job to work on his part time job. If we provide a monthly fee for his services we would be able to expect a certain amount of his time be dedicated to maintaining The Creek and it would reduce the load on my shoulders considerably.

With over 8,000 Members the cost of a part time paid Administrator shouldn't be a major burden. If just 25% of our Members would doante 50 cents per month we could remain financially healthy and pay our Administrator fairly for his services. The remainder of our Moderators and Admins will continue to volunteer our time without benefit of compensation.

[Keith Outten]

Here is another option to consider;

We could immediately remove Guest access, this would drop our server load by over 60% with no noticable effects to SMC. Guests don't contribute financially or participate in our Forums but they constantly consume over 60% of our resources. I expect that removing Guest access would cause our Membership to spike for a few days but for the number of Guests who join will not make a serious impact. I also expect that the bandwidth and server capacity we have right now would be more than adequate for several years.

Our ability to attract new Members would diminish considerably. If Guests can't view our Forums they would undoubtably be less likely to join. Note that just turning off Guests ability to view pictures won't provide the biggest savings as database access is still the largest load on our server.

Aaron and I have debated this issue many times and my opinion is that Guests are valuable if you want to attract advertising revenue.

Note that removing Guest access to SMC would improve performance but it will not resolve the issue of compensating our Administrator.

[tod evans]

Here is another option to consider;

Our ability to attract new Members would diminish considerably. If Guests can't view our Forums they would undoubtably be less likely to join. Note that just turning off Guests ability to view pictures won't provide the biggest savings as database access is still the largest load on our server.
i think attracting "new blood" is really the only way to have smc continue to grow and be healthy.
Aaron and I have debated this issue many times and my opinion is that Guests are valuable if you want to attract advertising revenue.
whoa nelly! since when are we looking to attract advertising revenue? it`s my understanding the whole reason each of us has been asked to chip in is to avoid advertising? please explain what you mean by this statement keith...do you intend to seek advertisers or sponsors other than the members? tod

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Keith, my suggestion to not allow "Guests" to view pictures was not made as a bandwidth saving measure, but as a means to get people out of the "Lurk" mode and into the "Member" mode.

I've been on the net since the fall of 1996, and back then forums like this with pics did not exist. The few forums that are still text only are not very popular, as the old saying "A picture is worth a thousand words" holds true, thus, the ability to view the pics becomes a good reason to sign up. On a number of motorcycle forums I'm a member of this is the rule, and it works, the number of guests lurking is very low. They do a membership drive twice a year, and the forums are very healthy as a result.

I think that if you can get people to sign up, then they would be more likely to take part, in posting and hopefuly supporting SMC.

I don't know what the big deal is anyway, it is not like we charge to become a member, or that you have to give a 4 page essay or something to be added to the list, the sign-up here is short, easy and painless, after all I did it!

I agree that paying the site's System Admin a monthly fee is only fair, and I'm all for that.

In the end, this is all on your plate, and I trust that you will find the balance needed, as you have done so for several years now, providing us all with a wonderful resource.

Thanks for your time.

Cheers!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

whoa nelly! since when are we looking to attract advertising revenue? it`s my understanding the whole reason each of us has been asked to chip in is to avoid advertising? please explain what you mean by this statement keith...do you intend to seek advertisers or sponsors other than the members? tod

Tod.........I'm sure Keith is referring to getting companies to join the manufacturer's forums.....

[tod evans]

Tod.........I'm sure Keith is referring to getting companies to join the manufacturer's forums.....

boy ken i sure hope so! that`s why i asked, keiths statement left me wondering. tod

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Tod...........I think if you reread the whole thread you'll see that Keith and Jackie took on a lot of personal debt when HRO went belly up to keep SMC free of unwanted ads and therefore allow it to keep it's current form. I have no doubt in my little mind Keith doesn't want excessive advertising and will decide what is best!

[tod evans]

ken, i have read the thread in its entirety that`s why i was thrown for a loop when i read the advertising statement. hopefully keith will clear this up `cause i kinda like this place and hope to stick around for a while;) . tod

[Jackie Outten]

Tod,

Keith only made that as a passing comment. The more hits you have, the more interested a company would be in advertising with your site. We are doing everything humanly possible to keep the "creek" advertisement free.

We will be doing some things this week that will hopefully get more people to register and donate a small amount. We are going to try to get the paypal set up to accept monthly donations and have some information on the sign up page explaining that sawmillcreek is a member supported site so that we can stay advertisement free. We will also add this information to our FAQ section.

There are no changes in the wind at this time.

Jackie

[tod evans]

thanks jackie! i feel better now:). tod

[edit] here`s an idea i haven`t seen mentioned, is it possible to have pop-ups show up only on the guest screens explaining that by regestering the pop-ups will go away, but at the same time make it clear that if a person is able, that donations will keep things running as they are?

[Frank Hagan]

Tod,

Keith only made that as a passing comment. The more hits you have, the more interested a company would be in advertising with your site. We are doing everything humanly possible to keep the "creek" advertisement free.

We will be doing some things this week that will hopefully get more people to register and donate a small amount. We are going to try to get the paypal set up to accept monthly donations and have some information on the sign up page explaining that sawmillcreek is a member supported site so that we can stay advertisement free. We will also add this information to our FAQ section.

There are no changes in the wind at this time.

Jackie

Take a look at Paypal's "Subscriptions" services; I use it for my little hosting company, and it works just like the regular Paypal "send money" function. See https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/xcl/rec/subscr-intro-outside I think you could easily set up a "Subscription" button to give you guys a reliable monthly income, which would go a long way towards giving you the peace of mind to make the leap to paying the administrator.

If you have to go with "advertising" in the future, I would suggest something like Google ads. Everyone knows they are ads and not part of the content of the site. There is no editorial bias introduced because the ads are served randomly by Google and not a manufacturer. I pay for my little boat building site with just 200 members with a single, text only Google Adsense ad banner in the upper right corner of the screen. SMC could generate thousands per month using Google Adsense ... SeatGuru.com has about 175,000 unique users and 650,000 page views a month, and exceeds $2,000 monthly in income.

Tod, would you object to a Google adsense ad in the upper right corner, opposite SMC's logo?

[Michael Cody]

I too don't have a problem with a few ads, just not scrolling banners etc.. I frequent Wood Central as many do here and Ellis has advertising to help support the board w/o an obtrusiveness at all. I don't see how that would change the atmosphere here at all.. worth consideration IMNSHO..

[Don Dean]

My .02. Where else could you meet great people, get great information, great conversation, great instruction, and the great feeling of belonging and ownership of a great forum for only a suggested $6.00 a year. Now I appreciate the discussion but come on let's support the Creek with what ever you can afford. There is not many people you can trust these days, but the Outtens and staff and monitors have gain the trust of many Creekers and that trust has never been broken. You guys and gals are great...show your greatness.

[Alex Berkovsky]

Paypal'ed a donation - thanks for all the hard work keeping this great forum going.

[Jim Becker]

The Non-contributer may have problems that you haven't thought about. I've had heart attacks, heart problems, by-pass surgery and haven't worked since Feb. 2005, and have zero income, duh.

Von your point is very well stated. There are many ways to contribute to the community and your words of wisdom are just as valuable as dollars and cents. For those that can contribute financially, I hope they will do so. For those that are unable, they are still valued members of the SMC community. Thanks for being here!

[Keith Outten]

Tod,

For the record and in plain english I am absolutely against any advertising at SawMill Creek.

I have said it many times before, there is so much advertising in life it is almost unbearable. Television, radio, roadsigns, web sites and email...may God grant me just one place that is free of advertising.

I am not alone here and I must consider all of our options when it comes to keeping SawMill Creek online for everyone. Even though I am against advertising I have to be open minded based on feedback from our Members and if the majority here want to go that route I can't just leave because I disagree. SawMill Creek is a Community and it is the Community that makes this such a special place not the software, Admins, Moderators, etc. Every decision we make must be what is best for the entire Community, I will always put my personal feelings aside and do what I believe is best for all.

The good news is that most of our Members have openly prefered that we stay away from advertising.

At least you know where I stand on the issue now and how I would vote.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Von,

SMC is supported by donations and is not a subscription based Forum. We don't want to exclude anyone from participating. There are young woodworkers who don't have jobs and we certainly don't want them to be excluded any more than those who are unable to make a contribution, whatever their personal reasons may be. The majority of us certainly can afford to donate in order to keep SMC online, woodworking isn't an inexpensive hobby anymore and I believe that we can all agree that the suggested 50 cents per month donation is low enough that at least 25% of our Members would be able to provide the necessary support.

Those who give their time, answering questions and offering their expertise are contributing and I doubt that even one Member would disagree. Those who ask questions are contributing as well, we have all learned something along the way because someone else asked a question.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Based on everyone's feedback I think we will make some improvements to our Donation Page and we will be adding an FAQ thread that will provide the necessary information all of our Members need to know. This should be an effective means of getting the word out to everyone concerning how SMC works, how we are funded and allow us to expand on a couple other issues concerning our Terms of Service like why our Community is so serious about abusive language, etc.

There have been other recomendations that I have received via Private Messages and email that are excellent and are worthy of further consideration. Aaron and I will most likely take these to our Moderators Forum and see if they have any comments before we go public with the details. I hope everyone will continue to share their ideas, concerns and expectations with us publicly or privately as you see fit. We are all interested in keeping SMC the best Woodworking Community on the Net and we are not afraid to try something new just because it hasn't been done before. We proved last October that we can beat the odds when we put our heads together and work as a team.

To all of you who have made donations all of our Members owe you a special thanks for contributing. I hope that more of our Members will elect to support SMC in the future with one six dollar donation per year which should more than take care of our financial obligations including compensating our System Administrator for his work keeping SMC running as smooth as possible without advertising.

.

[Mark Rios]

One vote from me - no ads!

[skip coyne]

I would prefer no ads , but I could live with it . another forum I frequent almost closed last year

two revenue sources they put in place

google toolbar at the top of the page , apperently they get some revenue form google searchs run through there .

they allow banner ads at the rop of the page , they are board related and quite honestly I have seen some industry related things I wasnt aware off .

[Spence DePauw]

Keith, I have a friend that runs a good woodworking school that I go to more often than I probably should :D (if you know what I mean). He has a interest in a manufacturers forum here. I've sent a couple of private messages a few months ago about it, but had no reply. How can I get him in touch with the right party (you or Aaron, I'd assume) so he can get the cost info info he needs to make a decision?

Spence DePauw

[Brian Hale]

No adverts for me!

I like the idea of voluntary monthly/quarterly/annual auto payment systems. If we can set it up i'm in for whatever reasonable "fee" is needed. Heck, i pay ~$40 for a photo forum and it's worth it!

Brian :)

[tod evans]

Tod, would you object to a Google adsense ad in the upper right corner, opposite SMC's logo?

frank, i honestly don`t have any idea what an "adsence" is? my big fear is if any manufacturer or vendor where allowed to advertise on smc they would feel it was their right to step on any of us who offer our opinions if our opinions didn`t favor their product(s). i really feel that if it ain`t broke don`t fix it. the way things run seems fine to me, if more cash is required let`s all of us chip in if for no other reason than the current enviornment has captivated each and every one of us... i think it`s cool that a ceo or a laborer each has equal status ...02 tod

[Jim Becker]

Tod, Google's "Ad-Sense" system uses the context of what is on the pages being served to post text-based ads to vendors offering products and services related to the subject matter at hand. In one respect, it answers your concern about any particular vendor or vendors having any "control" over the site since the vendors, themselves, have no real ability to control what we talk about. As you visit various sites, you'll see often see "boxes" on the site that have text ads and they also are captioned Google Ad-Sense.

While I'm not "for" adding any advertising to SMC, if it ever got to that, this would be a good way to do it without risking the situation you and most others have concerns about.

I really would like to see more manufacturers/vendors sponsor their own private forums here at SMC. Dino, Craig, John and Keith seem to get some very interesting conversations and threads going in their forums and "promotional" is allowed in those spaces. It's a great way to keep our general forums "clean" while allowing vendors, especially small ones like those folks, to have some voluntary access to well over 8000 folks with an interest in woodworking at this point.

[Frank Hagan]

Yep, I agree with Jim and everyone else regarding the no ad policy. But if ads were necessary, then something like Google ads would be less obtrusive than other types. I have left forums when the advertising got to be too much ... pop ups, pop unders, flashing banners, etc., all make the experience much less desireable. Especially the "double underlined links" that some forums are using ... in the content itself ... which I think definately crosses the line!

[Tim Morton]

IMO sawmill creek with ads is better than NO sawmill creek. I believe some forums have a system where visiting for free you see the ads, but subscribe to the forum and the ads go away. However I agree with everyone else...anything we can do to stay off that path is fine by me:)

[Tom Hamilton]

What's next? It is a question that has been unanswered since the last Creek fund raising. There are several tributaries that will lead us from where we are to where we want to be, but we have not navigated any yet.

What I have not seen is a plan, a business plan, to get us there.

We have several values we would like to continue:

we want to maintain the comraderie, hospitality and civility.
we want to talk about woodworking.
we don't want Jackie and Keith to carry our freight alone.
we don't want ads and/or we don't want intrusive ads
we want things to continue as they are or better.
we want our infrastructure to support us now and in the future.

Perhaps we should convene a off channel discussion of volunteers to lead us to a business plan to support the Creek and maintain our values.

If the moderators and Keith can and will perform this function then all is well.

If not then maybe we should enlist the assistance of other Creekers to make recommendations and submit a business plan for moderator and owner approval. I'm confident that there are experienced folks on the forum who have done this before and would volunteer to "consult" on this project. A "Long Term Planning Committee" could solicit input via member questionaire, make recommendations and seek management/owner approval.

We have the critical mass to make this a successful venture however we define success. We just need to structure ourselves to take advantage of our assets and maintain our values and culture.


Tom, in Houston, seeing a huge opportunity for the future of SMC.

[Chris Walls]

I value the content here ,though I don't have the time to spend here as often as I would like, ( I'm in the middle of building a house, there are never enough hours! ) A check is in the Mail. And thanks for all of the effort that goes into this. Chris

[Jeff Kerr]

Thanks for all the support keeping this running. Donation on the way via Paypal.

Thanks. Jeff :o

[Bruce Lewis]

I just made a donation through PayPal. The last thing I want to see here is ads. I've gotten to where I never watch TV because I despise having to watch commercials. You even get commercials on PBS, now...

I'd hate for a forum that is related to my livelihood to be another place I can be bombarded with ads. Even if it's for stuff I might actually be interested in.

[Christopher Stahl]

Just sent funds through paypal.

[Jerry Strojny]

This is something I've meant to do since I joined....but then never actually did it. I am sorry and I'll never let it happen again. Check is in the mail.

Automatic transfer...best thing since sliced bread. It would be perfect for something like this. (Our church just started it. Bet they will get better funding too.)

[Paul Stroik]

I am a member but not a contributor of information as I do not have the knowledge to contribute. I come to this site to learn and learn I have. This is a well maintained site with very knowledgable individuals contributing information that I would hate to see it change. Keep up the good work.

My check is in the mail.

Paul - A Wisconsinite

[Charlie Velasquez]

Tod,


Based on everyone's feedback I think we will make some improvements to our Donation Page and we will be adding an FAQ thread that will provide the necessary information all of our Members need to know.

.

Something I would suggest is to make the DONATE button visible all the time. If you are a guest or do not log in (and I usually don't), then the DONATE button is not visible. When I was gathering knowledge and downloading manuals and stuff from OWWM, I felt compelled to send a donation long before I registered there. Others may do the same here.

I think this was on Aaron's "todo" list at one time, but was probably lost in the shuffle of day-to-day maintenance.. . . Which just goes to show we really should have some sort of compensation for our sys admin.

I have set up my bank account for automatic checks every 6 mo. Last one was Feb. (Didn't win Andy's lottery, though, couldn't stay up that late), so next one is coming up soon.

My thanks to Keith, Jackie, Aaron and all you moderators for all you do.

[Chris Padilla]

Donated a few pesos.... Long live SMC! :)

[Bob Russell]

Deal me in . Check will be in the mail.http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon14.gif As arank amature this site is invaluable. We need BILL gates to kick in http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Steve Clardy]

I've been around here for quite some time, and have always tried to support the place.
I supported the pen project till I got exausted on it.
I am still willing to support the creek with a yearly donation.

But I draw the line at supporting it if it becomes an ad sponsored site.
I has been gone over and over, stated a lot of times that this site will be sponsor free. And I expect it to stay that way if I am to hang around here.
Once it becomes a sponsor supported site with ads, I am outa here.

I know things change, and sometimes have to change, but I am slowly seeing changes here that I do not agree with.
[In reference to the idea of sponsor paid ads.]

[glenn bradley]

Count me in. I don't trust Pay Pal so snail mail it is!

[Chris Padilla]

Count me in. I don't trust Pay Pal so snail mail it is!

Pay Pal rules! I love it! :)

[tod evans]

Tod, Google's "Ad-Sense" system uses the context of what is on the pages being served to post text-based ads to vendors offering products and services related to the subject matter at hand. In one respect, it answers your concern about any particular vendor or vendors having any "control" over the site since the vendors, themselves, have no real ability to control what we talk about. As you visit various sites, you'll see often see "boxes" on the site that have text ads and they also are captioned Google Ad-Sense.

While I'm not "for" adding any advertising to SMC, if it ever got to that, this would be a good way to do it without risking the situation you and most others have concerns about.

I really would like to see more manufacturers/vendors sponsor their own private forums here at SMC. Dino, Craig, John and Keith seem to get some very interesting conversations and threads going in their forums and "promotional" is allowed in those spaces. It's a great way to keep our general forums "clean" while allowing vendors, especially small ones like those folks, to have some voluntary access to well over 8000 folks with an interest in woodworking at this point.

jim, even the manufacturers forums can become a snakepit. it`s not that long ago that tempers flared and threads where locked when folks who choose to reside in one of those forums jumped into the general forum making unsubstantiated claims. granted things generally remain benign but i`ve got this gut feeling and i`ve learned to listen to my gut. so i`ll stand fast with " if there`s advertising, i`m outta here."
there`s lots more folks than myself here so ya`ll do what you feel is best i`ve made my position clear...02 tod

[Steve Clardy]

Paypal sent.






Side note again. No sponsored ad's:(

[Jim Becker]

Tod, I do understand your stance and frankly support it--I really don't want ads, either. I was just describing how the Google Ad-Sense works for anyone not familiar with it. If the "sky were to fall", it would at least be the least unobtrusive way to generate income with little risk of "influence".

[Jesse Cloud]

sent you a paypal payment a few minutes ago. Good luck and thanks.

[glenn bradley]

No offense to Pay Pal. I'm a network engineer and security specialist and I see poor Pay Pal just get pounded by hack and spoofing engines too consistantly. It's not their fault; they're just a desireable target.

[jonathan snyder]

Hi Folks,

I am very new here, but have already learned a-lot. I enjoy visititing. I have checked out some of the other forums, but find the creek to be the best one. Everyone is nice to each other! I especially like to see folks complementing others on their work. I never stopped to think how the bills are paid. Now that I know, I want to contribute also.

The check is in the mail, snail mail that is!

Thanks
Jonathan

[George Robin]

I don't post much. However, I'm on here all the time......learning.
I have already contirbuted and will again.

One suggestion/question

Is it possible to sned/post a reminder to all once a year?

Thanks for a great site.
George

[Roger Los]

I sent in my $20,000. Er...OK, somewhat less than that.

The biggest problem with adsense ads is that they're both intrusive and not all that lucrative unless you get a LOT of click-through and you get high-paying ads. A friend runs a forum--to be fair, one less trafficked than this one--and he makes about ten cents per day.

I run a couple of non-forum hobby sites and I've toyed with the idea of ads to try and make some money (and my expenses are only around $1,000 per year for the sites, not counting my time, of course), but the hassles have always outshone the meager income that would come in. Every time I'm threatened with a lawsuit by someone using the sites I think about it, though. :eek:

I used to visit a board regularly (old cars) where the owner decided that he could make his living via advertisements. Man, that place went downhill in a hurry as the guy in question essentially turned the focus from "how can I help our users" to "how can I help our advertisers--even at the expense of our users."

Finally, thanks for everyone's hard work and I hope things work out for Sawmill Creek!

[Michael Fross]

I was thinking about shirts and hats and decided to just send along $25. I really don't need another shirt and hat and might as well maximize the donation.

Michael

[Jeff Sudmeier]

My $.02 on the advertising issue...

I belong to two forums that have advertising on them. One uses google adsense ads and really these are not all that intrusive. I do have to admit that I was a little shocked to seem them the first time they went up, but I pretty much ignore them now, although I have bought some neat products from them. There would be no biting the hand that feeds you unless we bash google and while some might want to, I think we could all not do that.

That said, I think it is great that the donations are pouring in! The creek is a great place and if we can keep it the way it is with zero ads that is great!

[Larry James]

The Non-contributer may have problems that you haven't thought about.
I've had heart attacks, heart problems, by-pass surgery and haven't worked since Feb. 2005, and have zero income, duh.
My apologies Von, thoughtless of me, I was thinking of members buying all those great tools I would love to have, and not willing to donate 6 bucks.

As a reasonably healthy 64 year old, you have remined me to count my blessing. I'll send you a PM.

With apologies, Larry

[Mark Rios]

The Non-contributer may have problems that you haven't thought about.
I've had heart attacks, heart problems, by-pass surgery and haven't worked since Feb. 2005, and have zero income, duh.


No problem Von, we know you would if you could. I got you covered. Donation sent in your name, buddy. You get better.

[Steve Clardy]

No problem Von, we know you would if you could. I got you covered. Donation sent in your name, buddy. You get better.

Very good of you Mark:D :D :D

[John Miliunas]

No problem Von, we know you would if you could. I got you covered. Donation sent in your name, buddy. You get better.

You see there: It's precisely act like this which, not only bring hope to this society but, most definitely reinforce the solidarity of this place we know as the Creek! :) Bravo, Mark! :) :cool:

[Stephen McClaren]

Hey, never posted here before, but have learned a whole lot since I started lurking here about 3 months ago. I'm new to wood working and you guys are saving me a lot of time and money -- helping me get the most of this new hobby/addiction. I'm more than glad to help out, check will go out today, keep up the good work.

[tod evans]

welcome stephen!
nice gesture mark!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Welcome Stephen, and thanks for kicking in.

Mark you are a real Gent! :D

[John Miliunas]

Hey, never posted here before, but have learned a whole lot since I started lurking here about 3 months ago. I'm new to wood working and you guys are saving me a lot of time and money -- helping me get the most of this new hobby/addiction. I'm more than glad to help out, check will go out today, keep up the good work.

Stephen, welcome to SMC. Been here for 3 months and your first post is with a donation!!! :) Man, it just don't get any better than that! Well, maybe if you had some pics to share, it might be better! :D Thanks and we hope your stay here at the Creek is a pleasant one! :) :cool:

[Glenn Clabo]

No problem Von, we know you would if you could. I got you covered. Donation sent in your name, buddy. You get better.

You are an inspiration Mark...You're a good man.

I've had my fair share of lifes ups and downs...but right now I sit here blessed with good health...a good job...a wonderful wife...a great life. So in honor of your inspiration Mark...when I get home I'm sending an additional contribution of $36.00 for 6 members who may be experiencing bad times.

[Steve Clardy]

You are an inspiration Mark...You're a good man.

I've had my fair share of lifes ups and downs...but right now I sit here blessed with good health...a good job...a wonderful wife...a great life. So in honor of your inspiration Mark...when I get home I'm sending an additional contribution of $36.00 for 6 members who may be experiencing bad times.

Very generous Glenn!!!!!!!!!!:D

[Rob Bodenschatz]

I'd also like to make a donation in the name of another member. Mike Williams in Dublin sent me some stuff that saved me a ton of time. I won't go into the details so he doesn't get bombarded with requests but suffice it to say that I became the beneficiary of his hard work. He won't accept payment or gifts so I'd like to show my gratitude with a $20 donation to the Creek in his name. Thanks Mike.

[Mark Rios]

Looks like maybe I started a trend.

Wtg guys.

[Frank Chaffee]

Looks like maybe I started a trend.
I’ve had my share of easy times and hard, and I’ll soon contribute in this same spirit.
Thanks Mark, this is what The Creek is all about.

Frank

[Joe Pack]

Hope paypal works. This site is worth more than my magazine subscriptions, plus, the company is pretty good, too.

[Frank Pellow]

Keith, you say that 25% membership is a good goal and, with this objective in mind, suggest a donation of $6.

My guess is that at least half our 8,000 members are inactive. With this in mind, I would suggest at least $12 and then would round that up to $15.

Just what percentage of our membership has contributed something in 2006?

If you were to periodicly publish the total number of people who have contributed in 2006 and the total contributions, I think that it would encourage folks to donate.

[Jim Becker]

Frank, I think the six dollar suggestion is a good one--the equivalent of one venti latte and donut at StarBucks. There are many folks who give a lot more and some who would contribute if they could. I don't think the "suggested donation" should be more than ten dollars at any rate...

[Mark Rios]

Frank, I think the six dollar suggestion is a good one--the equivalent of one venti latte and donut at StarBucks. There are many folks who give a lot more and some who would contribute if they could. I don't think the "suggested donation" should be more than ten dollars at any rate...


Speaking as a West Coaster and a Californian, SHAME ON YOU JIM BECKER!!! Starbucks would never sell the lowly doughnut. You have to order a Persimmon/kumquat Scone or a banana/walnut/eucalyptus low-fat muffin or at LEAST a lite macadamia/pecan brownie with orange zest and Norwegian cinnamon.

[Jim Becker]

Figure of speech, Mark...personally, I go for the marble loaf cake with my Venti triple latte... ;)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Starbucks would never sell the lowly doughnut.

One of 2 reason I don't buy coffee at Starbucks! Don't like their coffee and lack of condiments!:eek: :D

[John Miliunas]

Frank, I think the six dollar suggestion is a good one--the equivalent of one venti latte and donut at StarBucks....

Sorry but, I'm afraid Satan will be hosting the Stanley Cup before I pay $6.00 for a coffee and donut (or whatever it is they call them at SB's!)!:eek: BUT, at the price of gas today, combine just one trip into town (towns are far apart in this area! :rolleyes:) and you've saved enough in gas $$$ to pay the 6 or 10 bucks quite easily. :) Besides, over the last year or so, I've cut myself back to one cup 'o joe (@10oz mug) in the morning and that's it for the day! :D :cool:

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I have been out of contact with the real world for three weeks or so and haven't read this entire thread so bear with me. When the funding problem first came up last year a lot of people wanted to donate large sums, but Keith said $10 each would be sufficient for this year and provide a cushion for the start of next. That's why many of us donated only $10 for 2006. It would be nice Keith if you could provide some ballpark numbers for the cost of making the required upgrades and providing Aaron some compensation for his time in 2006 and an operating budget for 2007. That would give the members an idea of what kind of money we need to raise because right now we seem to be operating in the dark. I don't think there is any question that our membership will respond to the need, we just need to have a target to shoot for.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I have been out of contact with the real world for three weeks or so and haven't read this entire thread so bear with me. When the funding problem first came up last year a lot of people wanted to donate large sums, but Keith said $10 each would be sufficient for this year and provide a cushion for the start of next. That's why many of us donated only $10 for 2006. It would be nice Keith if you could provide some ballpark numbers for the cost of making the required upgrades and providing Aaron some compensation for his time in 2006 and an operating budget for 2007. That would give the members an idea of what kind of money we need to raise because right now we seem to be operating in the dark. I don't think there is any question that our membership will respond to the need, we just need to have a target to shoot for.

Welcome back Dennis, and you have a good point.

Cheers!

[Chris Padilla]

...you guys are saving me a lot of time and money...

Really? This placed has saved me lottsa time but really cost me money*! :p

It is really great to see the outpouring here...society may not be so bad off afterall! Way to go, Everyone!

* - money well spent however...

[Glenn Clabo]

Iced Venti Americano...half caf...sugar free raspberry AND a raisin bran muffin (fiber is important at a certain age).

[Mike Weaver]

Seems I'm always late, but I'm in for another donation.

This site is the only WW site I frequent and I'm happy to donate!

Cheers,
-Mike :D

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Seems I'm always late, but I'm in for another donation.

This site is the only WW site I frequent and I'm happy to donate!

Cheers,
-Mike :D

Better, MUCH better late than never Mike! :D

Cheers!

[Kevin Herber]

$25 on its way via Pay Pal.

[Brad Kimbrell]

I have to agree with some of the others here - this is the ONLY forum that I have had the pleasure of never seeing another member attack or bash others. I was shocked to find so much negativity from woodworkers in other forums. :confused: I've never met a woodworker in person that I didn't like!

I treat The Creek as a spot to go when I want / need a break from the shop and it's my relaxing place...never a stressful or problematic spot.

I am happy to send money and have added a reminder to my calendar for next year. I've learned a bunch just reading posts and have always had good responses to my questions.

Thanks to all that make this a great place to hang my hat! :)

[chip hamblin]

Contribution sent

chip

[John Lucas]

Keith,
You and SMC need money. Understandably it is hard for you to bring the subject up. When you do, you get an "outpouring" of funds and this may be enough for the moment. I suggest you take a stronger approach. Send out an email to each and every member and do it once a year. It is a slightly more aggressive approach but I think a good one. Here's the problem, a lot of people come here and go right by the stickies. It is much harder to go by an email sent from SMC simply saying "we need your help..." or "it's time to contrbute..." It doesnt need to be forceful. Some of the people who dont pay now will not pay then either. This plan will get all those people who are not aware of the need or were aware of it a year ago but not now.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

........................This plan will get all those people who are not aware of the need or were aware of it a year ago but not now.

....or are like me and just forget, as I'm having such a good time here :D

I agree with John, great idea, Keith, you guys should do this.

Cheers!

[Tom Horton]

Speaking as a West Coaster and a Californian, SHAME ON YOU JIM BECKER!!! Starbucks would never sell the lowly doughnut. You have to order a Persimmon/kumquat Scone or a banana/walnut/eucalyptus low-fat muffin or at LEAST a lite macadamia/pecan brownie with orange zest and Norwegian cinnamon.
I'll have just coffee, please. And a doughnut. None of that fancy schmancy foo foo poo poo :D . And, I'll be sending in a contribution, too. Can't think of a better way to spend my money!

Tom

[Jack Damian]

Contribution sent

chip

Agreed.

[Jim Fancher]

Lease a server in a proper data center. Check out 1and1.com for package deals. Go with a managed server and you wouldn't need Aaron at all.

Go with their "Managed Server 1" for $109 a month. It's enough horsepower to run 50 vbulletin websites and you get 1000GB of transfer a month.

[Aaron Koehl]

Lease a server in a proper data center. Check out 1and1.com for package deals. Go with a managed server and you wouldn't need Aaron at all.

Go with their "Managed Server 1" for $109 a month. It's enough horsepower to run 50 vbulletin websites and you get 1000GB of transfer a month.


Yeah, that's exactly what we'll do. Create even MORE barriers to have to cut through in order to adminster our site. I've had a fill of "managed" deals, heck, Cox even "managed" to screw up our DNS 4 times--and their 24x7 call center was useless.

You cannot run a large forum on shared hosting.. You won't find a server that will run 50 vBulletin websites--unless they have no traffic, and I wouldn't dream of putting this database on a 40GB IDE drive.

I've seen too many horror stories about 1and1, too. Don't forget we (SawmillCreek, owned by Hampton Roads Online) were an ISP in business for 10 years.

$109 will NOT buy the setup we have now, even with any bandwidth issues we might have from time to time.

[Mark Rios]

Hey Aaron, we're paying you the big bucks :D now to run this show for us. You take care of it the way YOU see fit. You are our IT hero.

Come to think of it, maybe we all should have payed for Jackie to include an extra couple of shirts for you in the order. She could have had them put something on it like, "Official SMC Super IT Guy"................well.....maybe not quite like that but something special on it................heck..nevermind...............

Aaron, you just keep taking care of us the way you are and the way you want to and I thank you very much for doing it.

And we'll just let you buy your own shirts. :D

[John Miliunas]

Hey Aaron, we're paying you the big bucks :D now to run this show for us. You take care of it the way YOU see fit. You are our IT hero.

Come to think of it, maybe we all should have payed for Jackie to include an extra couple of shirts for you in the order. She could have had them put something on it like, "Official SMC Super IT Guy"................well.....maybe not quite like that but something special on it................heck..nevermind...............

Aaron, you just keep taking care of us the way you are and the way you want to and I thank you very much for doing it.

And we'll just let you buy your own shirts. :D

Yeah!!! What Mark said!!! :D :cool:

[John Bailey]

Gee, you go to Greece for 6 weeks and you miss everything. I saw the post about the intolerable blank pages the last couple of weeks, but didn't think it was a money problem. Asleep at the wheel again. Well, I'll get off a PayPal today.

The problem was the title of the post. I think most were like me, didn't know what it was about, and I tend to keep away from the technical stuff. We should have a post with a subtle message. Something like "WE NEED MONEY!!"

John

[John Bailey]

NO - to advertising

YES - to finding a way to pay the sys. adm.

John

[Charlie Schultz]

Pardon me if these have already been discussed...
1. Voluntary dues (ala PBS, mimf.com)?
2. As much as I like FreeStuff, perhaps auction it off instead?

[skip coyne]

Pardon me if these have already been discussed...
1. Voluntary dues (ala PBS, mimf.com)?
2. As much as I like FreeStuff, perhaps auction it off instead?

along the same lines eithr a charge for classifieds or a suggested volantary contribution scale

(for exampe if you sell a 100 item a 5 donation is suggested etc ... )

[Brian Hale]

Seems like it's doing it again..... :(

The dreaded BPS (blank page syndrome)

Brian :)

[Aaron Beaver]

Seems like it's doing it again..... :(

The dreaded BPS (blank page syndrome)

Brian :)
Getting it again this morning as well.