Tried and True?

[Martin Shupe]

OK, finishing is my weakest subject, not that there aren't others...

Is anyone out there an expert on Tried and True?

It seems like it takes forever to cure. I followed the directions on the can, didn't put it on too thick, wiped it off after an hour, and a week later the wood is still sticky. It says to use steel wool, so I do that, and it seems like in order to remove the stickiness, I end up removing all of the previous coat, so how can you get a finish to stay on your item?

I saw something finished with T&T at a Woodcraft across the country, and I thought, this stuff looks great! So, what it the secret?

I am going to try to take a class from Jeff Jewitt next summer, but until then, I am clueless.

I am trying to practice on a bedside table, so I don't screw up my blanket chest, but I have to find something that works.

Maybe I should just go back to Watco...

[Jim Becker]

Martin, I've used Tried and True a lot and not had the problem you describe. Generally, no more than a week to cure, even after the relatively heavy coats I happen to like to use. You may want to contact the company to discuss this. Perhaps you got a bad batch.

You didn't mention which forumula you used...there are three. One is just the oil. One is the oil with beeswax. One is varnish oil which is the oil with some natural resin varnish.

That being said, the only thing "different" about T&T from regular BLO is the lack of metalic dryers. They use a different process in the manufacturing to insure the oil cures through polymerizing. You can get the same essential results with off-the-shelf BLO from the Borg for a significantly lower cost. But when I have to finish in the house during the cold winter months, I use T&T to insure there is no danger to our birds, whether real or mythical.

[Martin Shupe]

Jim,

I am using the Varnish oil version.

Please tell me your process for application.

I have sanded to 220, after reading somewhere that anything more is a waste of time.

Then I apply the oil using a glue brush, so I don't get too much on. I tried using my hands once, and it turned into a big mess. On a big project I plan to use a squeegee. Then I wait at least an hour or so and wipe off the excess with rags. I wait a week, and then sand the "dry" finish with 400, and this is where the problem starts. Maybe I need to get special sandpaper, but I find that the sandpaper "loads up" with the oil, and I find myself rubbing the surface from smooth to yuck.

So...how much do you rub? just barely? or are you actually trying to take the finish down to the wood?

I have heard you can "wet sand" the next coat on, but have not tried it yet. That sounds like a mess, too, and is not described on the can.

I read somewhere else to thin the first coat, but it didn't say with what....

How many coats do you use?

What kind of wax do you use as the final coat?

Thanks for your help, Jim,

[Jim Becker]

Martin, I rarely use the Varnish Oil formula, but did apply it to a Shaker Round Stand this year (still awaiting final finishing just due to other projects taking precedence). I find the Varnish Oil formula a little harder to work with than the oil-only or oil/beeswax formulas.

I apply T&T (as well as ordinary BLO and any other wipe on finish) with lint-free paper towels...specifically the Scotts "rags in a box" in the blue and yellow box from the big box store. (Say that five times fast... :D ) I just fold the rag over a few times to a convenient size, dip it in the oil and then rub it into the workpiece. After it sets for awhile, I wipe off any excess. I haven't sanded it in as I generally use this finish on cherry and there is little reason to need any filling with the slurry. If the piece is going to be finished with additional materials, I don't use more than one coat. If the piece is to stay and oil and wax finish, I'll usually do two applications; the first with oil only and the second with the oil/beeswax blend.

For items going to be finished further, I may or may not use a coat of shellac (de-waxed garnet shellac from flakes for cherry). This provides a durable surface for either final finish or as a barrier base for whatever I choose to use as a top coat when that is appropriate. (For me, that's generally water-based lacquer)

[David Rose]

Martin, if you preheat the T&T Oil/Varnish I don't think you really gain anything by thinning it. I bought a cup-a-soup heater from Sears for about $8 and use a meat thermometer. It's less trouble than it sounds. Just stick the opened can in some water in the pot and drop the thermometer into the T&T. I usually run it up to around 130 degrees. I think the coat must be a lot thinner when applied this way, because it dries pretty fast usually. It certainly acts thinner anyway.

Stearated paper will help with finish sticking to the paper, but if the finish isn't dry, it won't help a lot. The finish that you sand off should really powder and not be gummy at all if the finish is really dry. If it isn't dry, you will get gumming of the paper and the little corns will scratch the finish as it drags over it.

I have heard others complain that they didn't get it to dry even for weeks. I haven't had that problem... yet.

David

[Jim Becker]

Martin, if you preheat the T&T Oil/Varnish I don't think you really gain anything by thinning it.

Good point...I forgot to mention that. I heat mine (as well as "regular" BLO) in a water bath over a simple hot plate and use a candy thermometer to get it to about 135º and keep it there. Not so hot as to burn one's hand, but hot enough to make it flow better. (Thos Moser (http://www.thosmoser.com) uses this technique for their finishes) However, I have only done this with the oil version, not with the varnish oil version. I don't know if the heat would have adverse effects on the resin varnish in this formula.

[David Rose]

Jim, I read about heating the Oil/Varnish in FWW and I believe somewhere else. That doesn't necessarily validate the process, but I didn't read of a dissent. I don't know what might happen with the solution, but at least it *seems* to work. Now it is making me a little noivous. I'm going to do some more checking before I do that again.

Thanks for the "heads up". There is an awful lot of misinformation out there in print. I don't want to just pass it on.

David

[Jim Becker]

Jim, I read about heating the Oil/Varnish in FWW and I believe somewhere else. That doesn't necessarily validate the process, but I didn't read of a dissent. I don't know what might happen with the solution, but at least it *seems* to work. Now it is making me a little noivous. I'm going to do some more checking before I do that again.

Thanks for the "heads up". There is an awful lot of misinformation out there in print. I don't want to just pass it on.

David

My point wasn't to put you into a state of duress!! I'm only suggesting that the varnish oil mix is "different" and maybe the heating will work differently. But logically speaking, it should speed up the curing based on the techniques I use at the lathe using friction to heat a varnish/oil mix for a quicker cure. I don't recall if the fellow in the Fine Woodworking article was using the original forumula or the resin varnish forumula. I'll have to look it up when I have a copious free moment. At any rate, heating T&T "original" and regular BLO really works nicely to get it soaking in faster and better in my experience.

[David Rose]

Jim, that was issue 152 with Chris Becksvoort using Varnish Oil. He did say to go up to 120 degrees instead of the little higher that I have done. Jeff Jewitt refers users back to that issue for installation instructions. That sounds good enough along with my limited experience. Just putting my mind at ease. No sweat. I just don't like to think I know something then pass on a load of garbage to the next guy. I have done that... :(

David


My point wasn't to put you into a state of duress!! I'm only suggesting that the varnish oil mix is "different" and maybe the heating will work differently. But logically speaking, it should speed up the curing based on the techniques I use at the lathe using friction to heat a varnish/oil mix for a quicker cure. I don't recall if the fellow in the Fine Woodworking article was using the original forumula or the resin varnish forumula. I'll have to look it up when I have a copious free moment. At any rate, heating T&T "original" and regular BLO really works nicely to get it soaking in faster and better in my experience.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, that was issue 152 with Chris Becksvoort using Varnish Oil. He did say to go up to 120 degrees instead of the little higher that I have done. Jeff Jewitt refers users back to that issue for installation instructions. That sounds good enough along with my limited experience. Just putting my mind at ease. No sweat. I just don't like to think I know something then pass on a load of garbage to the next guy. I have done that...

Thanks for the info...I'll have to re-read that article when I have the opportunity. I'm not surprised it was Chris, however...he worked with Moser for a bit a number of years ago. They are very different in their businesses, but share a love for the Shaker influence. And both share their ideas with the likes of us freely.