Opinion - Wall Hanging Cabinet

[Byron Trantham]

I need to make a wall hanging cabinet for a Doctor's office. The material is melamine. Is there any reason why I can't use biscuits for all the joints? I don't want any "connecting hardware" showing. the unit is 6.5 feet long, 34 inches tall and 12 inches deep with four doors.

Another question. I believe the wall studs are sheet-metal. I am going to use a cleat to hang the wall unit. The cleat will be a 3" wide by 1/2" thick material cut at 22 1/2 degrees on edge. The mating cleet will be attached to the bakc of the cabinent. What kind of fasteners are used to attach a cleat to the wall? I was thinking about not worry about the sheet-metal studs and use toggle bolts.

Any suggestiosn will be greatly appreciated.

[Bobby Hatfield]

I need to make a wall hanging cabinet for a Doctor's office. The material is melamine. Is there any reason why I can't use biscuits for all the joints? I don't want any "connecting hardware" showing. the unit is 6.5 feet long, 34 inches tall and 12 inches deep with four doors.

Another question. I believe the wall studs are sheet-metal. I am going to use a cleat to hang the wall unit. The cleat will be a 3" wide by 1/2" thick material cut at 22 1/2 degrees on edge. The mating cleet will be attached to the bakc of the cabinent. What kind of fasteners are used to attach a cleat to the wall? I was thinking about not worry about the sheet-metal studs and use toggle bolts.

Any suggestiosn will be greatly appreciated.

Byron I gotta question the 22- 1/2 degree angle, I am thinking 45. Also will there be a cleat at top and bottom of the cabinet, you know how folks load up a cabinet. Very small pilot holes or none at all and deep thread screws for the metal studs, two per each stud on the wall hung cleat with maybe glue on the back of cleat, if width of cabinet only covers two studs then I would make three inch wide wall cleats and three or four screws per stud, and don't tighten screws too tight and strip them out of the 24 gauge metal. You can see I believe cabinets "will" be overloaded.
On the melamine joints, I have used pocket hole screws on the back side and even screws on ends and matching color coverup stickon hole hiding covers.

[Byron Trantham]

Byron I gotta question the 22- 1/2 degree angle, I am thinking 45.
22 1/2 - 45 what's the difference? :D Yea it is supposed to be 45! I think you are right about two cleats - top and bottom. As for the hanging hardware, I'm still thinking toggle bolts for the very reason you point out - over load.

[David LaRue]

22 1/2 - 45 what's the difference? :D Yea it is supposed to be 45! I think you are right about two cleats - top and bottom. As for the hanging hardware, I'm still thinking toggle bolts for the very reason you point out - over load.

My shop is steel stud construction. I hang all kinds of heavy stuff on the wall. I attach furring strips, and 2 x 4's to the wall with screws. I pre-drill the holes in the cleat and then screw it to the steel stud in as many places as I can get a screw.

If you use fine threaded self tapping screws with your cleat, I think it should hold quite a lot, especially if you span two studs. my .02

Dave

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Byron, here is a couple of ideas for you. Around these parts, commercial construction usually calls for 5/8" Fire Code Drywall, which is a little tougher than the standard residential 1/2". I would go with the cleats, attached with Construction Adhesive and 1/4-20 Toggle Bolts. There is a new style Toggle Bolt, trade name "Toggler". I have included a photo of the Toggler. These Toggle Bolts have a plastic washer type device that you just zip down flush with the drywall after you drill a 1/2" hole and itsert the metal wing. The nice thing about these style of toggle bolts is that they stay put when you take the bolt out. Kind of like having a nut and washer inside the wall, glued in place. They hold much better than the old style "Wing" Toggle. I have included a link to the Toggler Company website as well. Using these, you won't have to worry about stripped threads in the metal studs, and it will be much easier to hang the unit too.

http://www.mechanicalplastics.com/index.html

[Rob Russell]

I've heard of biscuits swelling and telegraphing through man-made materials. Is a concern for you? I haven't worked with much melamine myself - anyone else have a thought?

[George Summers]

First - as to your cleats: 45° is the accepted angle for the cleats. Use 3/4" material for cleats not ½", install your cabinet back recessed 3/4" so the sides, top and bottom are flush with the wall and hide the cleats (as in plural - top and bottom). For fastening your cleats to the wall with steel studs - use ¼" or 3/8" diameter "molly" bolts through the drywall and the stud's wall. Use two per stud (one over the other), this will give you at least four studs you will be going into and thus, eight fastening points per cleat or sixteen total for your cabinet. The 'molly' through the stud will give you much more holding power than any fastener just through the drywall only. The stud will act as a backing plate behind the drywall. Melamine by itself is very heavy and once loaded with supplies will be 'VERY' heavy.

For the cabinet itself, I have had very good luck using the fasteners designed for the job, 'confirmat' screws. Snap-in caps are available to cover the countersunk screw heads.

George

[Todd Burch]

Biscuits would probably work fine, but in a doctors office, or any commercial application, I would use the confirmat screws. Don't be miserly with them. You're glueing them to the subtrate, not the melamine itself. I understand that Roo Glue works well if you have to glue to the surface.

Actually, a sliding dovetail would work too for your case (dovetail the horizontals into the verticals). A hardwood face frame, glued and screwed together, and then glued (& biscuited) on would provide a lot of support too. (You didn't mention which style - traditional face frame or Euro)

How are you finishing your ends? Iron on edge tape?

I would suggest a 1/16" or a 1/8" reveal @ your butt joints. Since you can't sand it, just overhang it a little bit, and if the overhang is slightly off, no one will ever notice.

[David Rose]

Byron, are thinking "toggle bolts through the sheet metal studs"? I think what Bobby and I first thought was through the wall and not stud. Toggle bolts would be great through the sheet metal studs. I would trust the stud even with sheet metal screws before the drywall only.

David

[Jeff Rich]

TOGGLERS!!
We us them all the time to hang screens, TVs, Plasmas, Speakers, LCDs,Cameras you name it. They work great especially if you know right where the metal stud is and can use it for support.
I am no expert on this however, but we have put up some heavy stuff.

[Byron Trantham]

I would use the confirmat screws. I understand that Roo Glue works well if you have to glue to the surface.

(You didn't mention which style - traditional face frame or Euro)

How are you finishing your ends? Iron on edge tape?



Todd, are confirmat screws those tapered screws requiring a step down bit? My main problem is that I am "matching up" already installed cabinets. Euro style doors and absolutely no indication of any fasteners. A really clean box. That said, does this Roo glue work with a melamine and raw edge joint? If it does, then maybe biscuits and Roo Glue would be the way togo to achieve the "no fasteners look." Where can I get this Roo glue? And yews, I am going to use the iron-on edger band. I have installed miles of that stuff as well as red oak and birch edge banding with the LOML's iron! She rolls her eyes as she sticks her hand out for the money from the job. ;)

[Byron Trantham]

TOGGLERS!!


Jeff, where do I find these and is that what they are called - Togglers? Also, this may seem like a dumb question but can you use a regular stud finder to locate them? How wide are they? This is the first experience I have had with them. thanks.

[Todd Burch]

Roo Glue's web site is here (http://www.rooglue.com/).

Yes, the tapered drill, or a stepped drill, is used for the confirmat screws. In researching this reply, I also came up with Hafele's Zip-R screws (see their PDF (http://www.hafeleonline.com/pdf/products/0-6A.pdf)), but I couldn't find any specs on them. Sorry. (Apparently, they might be easier to use with hand-held tools than confirmat).

How are the existing cases assembled?

[Byron Trantham]

How are the existing cases assembled?

Good question. I mean these things do not have any visible means of assembly. I found the Togglers at McFeely's. I will definitely use them. I think I am going to 'stick' [no pun intended] with the biscuit method. I will also look into the glue. I have a little time. I should get the deposit early next week.

[Richard McComas]

I’m a fan of comfirmat screws wherever they don’t show, been using confirmats for many years and make for a pretty strong joint in man made sheet goods. I use biscuits on end panels the will show unless it get an applied panel. The biscuits will work fine and Ive never experienced of telegraphing in melamine. Given that your building one cabinet you may not want the expense of buying the special stepped drill bit for the confirmat screws so I see no reason not to use biscuits through out your project other than they take more time that the confirmats, (at least for me).

Most commercial melamine cabinets use dowels to construct the cabinet boxes that are not of the knocked down variety. Biscuit are not really that much different that dowels in my opinion.

[Paul Kunkel]

Biscuits or dowels, but do use Roo glue, or 2nd best Titebond melamine glue. I tested Roo glue with a 'T' joint of 2 pieces of melamine raw edge to substrate glue only, and the next day took a BIG hammer to it and tore off a huge chunk of Melamine. It took a lot of effort to break the 2 pieces apart. Over 3/4" x 12" you have a huge glue surface. JMO