Anyone here paid your royalty fees to Rockler?

[rick fulton]

This subject may have been covered before, but I could not find it on SMC search tool.

Hoa's table saw outfeed table shown in another SMC thread ( http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=38098 ) got me searching the net for outfeed table ideas. Then I came across this at the US patent office.


Looks like your basic outfeed table. Actually, the following link includes many references to variations on power saw extension and outfeed tables. An interesting read.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6668696.PN.&OS=PN/6668696&RS=PN/6668696

Of course, I have no affiliation with Rockler.
rick

[tod evans]

never spent a nickel at rockler and have built outfeeds long before they where in business so good luck collecting from this ol` boy!

[Lee DeRaud]

never spent a nickel at rockler and have built outfeeds long before they where in business so good luck collecting from this ol` boy!Tod, you're a good ol' boy, but you're not that old!:eek:

[Shiraz Balolia]

At times there appears to be a disconnect at the USPTO where the examiners that are approving patents do not have a clue about the actual product's application. To a certain extent, they have to rely on information provided by the inventor's attorney for "prior art". Prior art is where it is the inventor's responsibility to provide information to the Patent office about other similar products out in the marketplace, and why this is different and deserving of the patent. We had one case where we received a letter from an attorney claiming that we were violating a certain patent (that his client had just been granted). I promptly sent them one of our catalogs from about ten years ago that had that same, identical item being sold. Never heard back from them!

In the case of the patent that is the subject of this thread, I can tell you that I have personally used, as I am sure many of you have, several of the claims in the patent for many years - well before the patent application was made. I think this Patent might end up being a "feel good" patent that will probably be unenforceable.

[tod evans]

Tod, you're a good ol' boy, but you're not that old!:eek:

sorry, no i`m not i had to check, they started business in `54. i jusn never heard of them untill the early 80`s . i stand corrected again:(

[Tim Solley]

Kind of reminds me of Microsoft and how they have a whole team of people who do nothing but crank out patent applications all day long and submit them to the patent office. That way if they ever get to scrapping with a competitor, they just might have a patent that applies to the fight, and can pull it out and beat them over the head with it.

If I recall, Microsoft even owns the idea of a hyperlink. You know, one of these. (http://www.microsoft.com)

Whoops. I just violated the patent. I'm sooooooooo gonna pay :D!

Maybe Rockler is up to the same thing....

Tim

[John Stankus]

Looking at the independent claim, what is new and novel is the bracket assembly not the concept of outfeed table. They did cite prior art that covers the outfeed table concept.

1. The outfeed table for a table saw for cutting a workpiece, the table saw having a tabletop supporting the workpiece for cutting, the outfeed table adapted to attach to the tabletop of the table saw and provide support for the workpiece as the workpiece is cut and moves off the table saw tabletop, the outfeed table comprising: (a) a support surface adapted tos upport the workpiece; and (b) an adjustable bracket attached to the support surface and adapted to be attached to the tabletop of the table saw, wherein the adjustable bracket further comprises a first L-bracket having a first base and a first slot therethrough, and a second L-bracket having a second base and a second slot therethrough, the first base slidingly engaging the second base, and a first connector engaging the first slot and the second slot for horizontal adjustment.


Regards

John

[Lee DeRaud]

Kind of reminds me of Microsoft and how they have a whole team of people who do nothing but crank out patent applications all day long and submit them to the patent office. That way if they ever get to scrapping with a competitor, they just might have a patent that applies to the fight, and can pull it out and beat them over the head with it.Well, at least they put some effort into it, as opposed to IBM (who just buys them) or the umpteen companies whose sole reason to exist is to amass and license spurious patents.

The whole process jumped the shark when the patent office changed their (long-standing) rule against allowing patents on algorithms.

[Tim Solley]

Well, at least they put some effort into it, as opposed to IBM (who just buys them) or the umpteen companies whose sole reason to exist is to amass and license spurious patents.

The whole process jumped the shark when the patent office changed their (long-standing) rule against allowing patents on algorithms.

It never ceases to amaze me how many techie types are woodworkers. When I look around my office (full or programmers), I don't see a bunch of budding woodworkers. But what do you know, they keep popping up out of the...um...woodwork.

It's interesting. Okay, back to the patent talk :D

Tim

[Tim Solley]

Well, at least they put some effort into it, as opposed to IBM (who just buys them) or the umpteen companies whose sole reason to exist is to amass and license spurious patents.

The whole process jumped the shark when the patent office changed their (long-standing) rule against allowing patents on algorithms.

Oh yeah, and I work for one of those monster corporations that buy up everything in sight. I worked for a small tech company until early this year until we got gobbled up. It's been interesting.

Tim

[Lee DeRaud]

It never ceases to amaze me how many techie types are woodworkers. When I look around my office (full or programmers), I don't see a bunch of budding woodworkers. But what do you know, they keep popping up out of the...um...woodwork.I look at it the other way around: it never ceases to amaze me how many woodworkers are techies (or ex-techies). I realize southern California isn't typical, but in the three turning classes I took at Woodcraft, all but one of the students and both of the instructors involved were retired aerospace engineers.

[Ken Belisle]

"The outfeed table attaches to the tabletop of the saw table"

I guess since mine isn't attached, I don't have to pay. :D :D :D

[Perry Holbrook]

For what it's worth, my understanding is that it's perfectly legal to copy and use for your personal use anything that has a patent. A patent is only violated when it is copied and the resulting product is sold. At least that's what we were taught in a patent law class in the early '70s.

Perry

[Jim Becker]

I look at it the other way around: it never ceases to amaze me how many woodworkers are techies (or ex-techies).

Either direction...the woodworking avocation serves as stress relieve (well...most of the time...) and as a mental health activity for us techies! (Telcom for me...)

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The rockler patent isn't likely going to prevent you or anyone from making outfeed tables and selling them- let alone making one for home use. Don't forget the "fair use" doctrine.

Patent's that purport to apply to things like "a table to recieve stuff from a machining operation" are almost always very, very specific as to what exactly the coverage is. In fact they usually end up having no more force than a design patent covering things like the shape or a narrow little detail in the larger item.

While at Aurther D. Little we patented the "swing link."
Yes in the 1980's we got a patent on that neat little device that's been converting lateral thrust power into rotary power for centuries. It was exactly like what antique locomotives used and exactly identical to the one that Archemedes designed and built. We got the patent because the patent was so narrowly drafted it merely covered the application of a swing link in a very specific and proprietary application.
Technicaly speaking you could patent a wheel barrow if you drafted it narrowly enough.

"A wheel barrow to carry nuckUuUler waste" I'd better hop to it my fortune awaits.

[Kyle Kraft]

I sure hope nobody here is going to lose any sleep over this whole matter....because I sure won't. 50% of the stuff in my shop was built on my own after seeing a picture in someones catalog.

Kyle in K'zoo (the patent violating hotbed of Michigan)

[Vaughn McMillan]

This phrase cracked me up. Who writes this stuff?

...the first base slidingly engaging the second base...
Can't tell if they're describing a mechanical connection, a baseball runner's actions, or the progress of a teenager's first date. :rolleyes: ;)

- Vaughn

[Lee DeRaud]

Can't tell if they're describing a mechanical connection, a baseball runner's actions, or the progress of a teenager's first date. :rolleyes: ;)I think Rockler also holds the patent on the Infield Fly Rule.

[glenn bradley]

24 years as a data network design engineer BUT, I am a SoCal native so I didn't stand a chance. WW is where I turn off my on-the-fly binary to hex to english converter and decompress. Ahhhhhh, sawdust, fractions, etc.

[CPeter James]

Tabitha Babbitt must be turning over in her grave. Someone is going to steal her rights to the invention of the circular saw. Tabitha was a Shaker lady in the early 1800's. As it says, she never patented any of her inventions.

http://www.juliamorganschool.org/mural/02.tabitha_babbitt.html

CPeter

[Michael Gabbay]

I'm submitting a patent for Shaker and Mission style furniture. PAY UP DUDES!!!! :D

I think this could easily be challenged as not original is design and concept. Unless you followed their spec the the letter I don't see how they could actually enforce the patent. It's like applying for a patent for a kitchen table with 4 legs and a flat top.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I look at it the other way around: it never ceases to amaze me how many woodworkers are techies (or ex-techies). I realize southern California isn't typical, but in the three turning classes I took at Woodcraft, all but one of the students and both of the instructors involved were retired aerospace engineers. So turning is ROCKET SCIENCE?

[Lee DeRaud]

So turning is ROCKET SCIENCE?You'd think so, the way some people talk about it.:eek:

Or maybe witchcraft.:cool: