What's the smoothest cutting blade for RAS?

[Louis Brandt]

Hello,
I want a new blade for crosscutting on my old Sears Craftsman 10 inch radial arm saw, and I want a blade that will give me a smooth result, with minimum tearout.
I know that I want a higher number tooth blade, but do I need to concern myself with hook angle, and if so, do I want a zero hook angle, a positive hook angle or a negative hook angle? Is hook angle a safety consideration or is the right hook angle important for the right cut? I’ve used this radial saw for many years, but I’ve never really paid much attention to what type of blades I’ve used, beyond making sure that they were rated for fine crosscutting.
And if I do need to look for a proper hook angle, how can I determine the hook angle if it’s not stamped on the blade?
Louis

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Hello,
I want a new blade for crosscutting on my old Sears Craftsman 10 inch radial arm saw, and I want a blade that will give me a smooth result, with minimum tearout.
I know that I want a higher number tooth blade, but do I need to concern myself with hook angle, and if so, do I want a zero hook angle, a positive hook angle or a negative hook angle? Is hook angle a safety consideration or is the right hook angle important for the right cut? I’ve used this radial saw for many years, but I’ve never really paid much attention to what type of blades I’ve used, beyond making sure that they were rated for fine crosscutting.
And if I do need to look for a proper hook angle, how can I determine the hook angle if it’s not stamped on the blade?
Louis


I use a blade that is ground for non-ferrous metals. It's a lot like the chisel tooth configuration every other tooth is flat on the end the rake is positive. It leaves zero tool marks cuts very well consumes little power and stays sharp for ever.
Tooth count between of at least 80 on a RAS will help prevent climb as they don't dig in too deeply.

[Todd Davidson]

Hi Louis ~

You definately want to use a negative hook. Currently have a Freud 60T (LU91RO10X) on my RAS and have used the Dewalt 80T (DW7647). Both are -5 deg. Have no complaints about the cuts of either.

In peace, Todd

[glenn bradley]

Anderson Saw and Forrest both make excellent neg-hook blades. Strike the branding statement. . . any quality, high tooth-count neg-hook would be a good bet. No positive-hook.

[Ken Salisbury]

There is no doubt that a Forrest WWI is the best blade for a radial arm saw. I have used one on mine for l5 years -- can't beat it.

[Charles McCracken]

Louis,

Low or negative hook angle is important on a RAS for both the cut quality and the control of the feed. Since the tips don't attack the material aggressively they are less prone to tear out and less likely to want to pull the head of the saw toward you. The hook angle is apparent if you look closely. The hook angle is the angle the tips make relative to a line through the middle of the blade. Negative hook looks like the tips are leaning backwards and positive is leaning forward. This is a negative hook blade and the one I recommend:
http://www.freudtools.com/woodworkers/rep/sawblades/Industrial_Series/Crosscut/010_LU91R_A.jpg




This is a positive hook blade:
http://www.freudtools.com/woodworkers/rep/sawblades/Industrial_Series/Crosscut/009_LU73M_A.jpg

[Scott Loven]

I have heard that the best RAS blade comes from Forrest, you have to ask for a guy named charles or you will get the wrong blade.thesawguy@hotmail.com (thesawguy@hotmail.com)
He suggests sending him an email, include your name, location and best "local" time for him to call you, he will call you to discuss blades/ordering. This way should prevent the phone tag some of you folks have been having.
His direct number is 800 733 7111 ext 314.
Mention you want the WW1 TCP blade recommended by Mr. Sawdust

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Haven't used the Forrest--people say it's excellent. I know the Freud LUsomething (-5 degrees) is excellent.

[Dave Falkenstein]

No blade will cut smoothly on a RAS if the saw is not adjusted properly. Adjusting a Craftsman RAS and keeping it that way can be a challenge. That said, my choice would be a Forrest Chopmaster or Woodworker I, both of which are recommended for RAS.

[John Gregory]

Does the blade choice make any difference if the chop saw is a slider or not? The one I use in my shop does not slide.

thanks

[Charles McCracken]

John,

Low or negative hook is not necessary for a non-slider but can sometimes improve the cut quality. If you are experiencing excessive tearout on the bottom or back of the cut you may want to consider a less aggressive blade with lower hook angle.

[Per Swenson]

Hello,

I feel the need to maybe correct some confusion.

RAS= Radial Arm Saw.

These are not mitre saws. They are not sliding mitre saws.

As far as I know, ALL radial arm saws are pulled through the cut.

So they all slide...towards the operator.

A mitre saw, cuts downward and does not slide.

A scms is Pushed through the work. Away from the operator.

A Radial arm saw must have a negatve hooked saw blade.

This is a must for operator saftey.

I own more then one of each.

Per

[Ron Jones near Indy]

What Per said is totally correct. I'm glad he clarified what appears to be a big misunderstanding.

[Louis Brandt]

Per,
Thanks for the clarification on hook angles, but I'm still a novice, so let me ask a follow-up based on what you've said.
If I understand your posting, you seem to be saying that the hook angle is related to whether the blade is pulled through or pushed through the cut.
You say that since a radial saw is pulled through the cut, its blade needs a negative hook angle.
What about ripping on a RAS? Since ripping on a RAS requires pushing the material into the blade, should a blade for ripping on a RAS have a positive hook angle?
You didn't say what hook angle is best for a SCMS, but since you say that with a SCMS the blade is pushed through, does that mean that a SCMS is best with a positive hook angle?
Along the same line, since the work on a TS is pushed through the blade, should it have a positive hook angle?
And does your posting mean that since a non slider miter saw cuts downward, it needs a 0 hook angle?
I'm trying to better understand the whole blade/hook angle issue, so bear with me.
Louis

[Per Swenson]

Not really.

For ripping anything you want a positive hook blade.

So on a ras you want to switch blades for this operation.

Me, I switch saws.

For chop, mitre and ras you want a negative hook blade.

Even scms. As these are all cross cut machines.

Here is where it gets important.

Only on a radial arm saw is the negative hook blade so damn imperative.

I betcha you could trace back 90% of the scary disater storys to the

wrong blade on the ras or operator laziness in not switching after a rip.

That and some poor manufacturing in the 70s is the reason (my belief)

that this style of saw has lost popularity and prestige. And that is to bad.

If you put a positive rake blade on the ras and pull it towards you the

saw most often will get traction and jump towards you. This is the same effect as climb cutting with a router.

I hope this helps some. By the way I have a 15 degree neg hook tenryu

on our 1963 dewalt powershop.

This illustration may help some.

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="627"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="9" align="center" width="72">
</td> <td rowspan="9" align="center" width="300">http://www.trendmachinery.co.uk/sawblades/sawblades_8.jpg</td> <td width="8">
</td> <td>TOP BEVEL CLEARANCE (a)
Determines how cleanly the blade cuts and enables gradual penetration into material.</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="8">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="8">
</td> <td>RADIAL SIDE ANGLE (b)
Ensures clearance between teeth and kerf side.</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="8">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="8">
</td> <td>HOOK OR RAKE ANGLE (c)
Angle of tilt of the tip.
Positive (forward) for ripping.
Negative (backward) for cross cutting.
Zero for plastics and aluminium. </td> </tr> <tr> <td width="8">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="8">
</td> <td>TOP CLEARANCE ANGLE (d)
Ground according to the hardness of material to be cut.</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="8">
</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td width="8">
</td> <td>TOOTH PITCH (e)
Dimension between two teeth and denotes number of teeth. Smaller the pitch, greater the number of teeth.</td></tr></tbody></table>Per

[John Keane]

My WW teacher said as absolute " Never, but never rip with a RAS." Per is right again. Use a different saw like a table saw.

[Basil Rathbone]

I have both a Forrest WW 1 TCP and a Freud LU83R008 for my Dewalt 925H. Both are the Cadillac of blades.

The Freud has a thinner kerf and is an ATB with raker that leaves a perfectly flat bottom. I just finished the cuts for a picture frame and couldn't tell which edges I had jointed. It's that good.

The Forrest TCP is a true universal blade for a good RAS and is as smooth as it can get.

The Freud is about $40 at amazon and the Forrest is about $100 from Charles. My choice? Spend $140 on yourself and use them both.

[Basil Rathbone]

My teacher (Wally Kunkel - Mr Sawdust) said never rip with a RAS unless you know what you are doing, then do it right. This applies to a table saw also.

As I read here once, your machine does not have a brain, so you have to use yours.