Sawstop/General Question

[JIm McMullen]

As I have mentioned in an earlier post, I am interested in buying either a General or Sawstop. I am interested in specs on tabletop flatness and arbor/flange runout on these machines. Stated tolerances are(from the manufacters via e-mail):
General: blade to miterslot <.005", Table flatness <=.010",arbor/flange RO<.002"
Sawstop: Tabletop flatness <=.010", extensions <=.025", arbor RO,<=.001"

Several General owners have graciously offered these specs on their own machines.

Would it be possible for you owners of Sawstop and General (350/650) to offer these specs from your own machines?

If you would like, I would be pleased to receive your replies privately by e-mail (which I will keep to myself).

Thank you very much for your trouble!

Jim

[William Daly]

Jim.

Fine Woodworking magazine did a review of severalm table saws last or next to last article. They reviewed the Sawstop and the other one you had mentioned.

[Matthew Dworman]

We have 2 sawstops in our shop. They are excellent machines. We are woodworkers, not machinists - 0.015" is meaningless on a tablesaw surface.
My $0.02

[CPeter James]

I agree with Matthew and I am a fussy about my tool set ups. Table flatness, within reason is not as critical as alignment of the blade and miter slot(s)(the left one is the important one) and the blade to fence.

CPeter

[Kevin Herber]

I've not had a chance to look over a General but I did do a pretty thorough looksy at a SawStop at the Austin WoodCraft a few weeks ago. All I can say is "Wow!!" I was very impressed. If I were in a position to spend the big bucks I would buy the SawStop without hesitation. I love my Unisaw but that SawStop was really something, Having said that you have to realize that I could buy two of my Uni's for one SawStop.

-- Kevin

[Howard Acheson]

Jim, you are comparing nits. None of the differences in specs will have any affect on how the saw cuts. Both are excellent saws. The SawStop however, based on a couple of hours playing with it, is in a class by itself regardless of the safety feature.

IMO, the only issue is how much value you place on the safety of the SawStop.

[Roy Wall]

Jim,

Sawstop Owner for 1 year:

About the only thing I've really measure on my Sawstop is the table flatness in several areas. I used the edge of a LN #7 jointer plane as it is flat within 0.0015 across its 22" length.

I am able to slide a piece of paper (.004) between the table and plane in about 2 areas of the MAIN top.......about 3-5 inch areas I suppose,,,,,

Other cuts are square vertically........I measure/test the board I cut and not the blade....and do the same horizontally......testing the board I cut. It is my understanding the folks at Sawstop use very accurate instruments to set up the machine before its shipped out.....much better than I could do.......so I let the cuts do the talking (as they may say...)

The left C.I. Wing is dead flat in the back.....but maybe just a hair "high". in the front of the table.....I can feel it a little with my fingers. I, of course, installed this wing.........someday I may fiddle with it to get it perfect....but as of now...my cuts are still accurate - so I leave it alone.

The Riving Knife is the best feature on the saw.

[JIm McMullen]

Thanks Roy,
Appreciate your reply to my questions. Three new machines are due into Woodcraft in my town in 2 days. Can't wait to see them!!

[Ben Grunow]

I bought a Sawstop because I couldn't stop thinking that if I cut my finger off (at some point in the life of my new saw-maybe 15 years or more with this saw) I would have to live the rest of my life thinking that I cut my finger off for about $1000 (difference in price between the Unisaw and Sawstop). Stop and look at your hand and imagine it without a pointer or middle finger. Not too much fun huh? I would have felt like I made a stupid decision now that I know about the Sawstop technology. Plus-one look at the Sawstop and I was sold, what a beast!

[JIm McMullen]

Ben-That's a good enough reason-especially if it is as good a machine as everyone says it is. I'll give MHO in a day or two after I look at them. I'll probably be crying the -$$$ blues! Thanks for your reply. Jim

[Joe Jensen]

Jim, I had the same logic as Ben. I measured my Sawstop and the main table is flat to .002, measured with a Bridge City Tools 24" straight edge and an automotive feeler guage. Flatness doesn't really matter that much on table saws. I can't believe I could tell the difference in cut between .001 and .020. I bought to keep my fingers....joe

[Aaron Kline]

With the nature of wood and its movement, I'm not overly concerned about flatness.

[Bob Swenson]

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Jim
<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>
When I first heard about the Sawstop I picked up the Phone and ordered one of the first saws (three month waiting list), Per said what are you doing are you crazy? I replied you have to be crazy not to own this saw.
In the owners manual of my old Rolls Royce it stated that the horsepower was “Adequate”
The Sawstop manual should say-
Tabletop flatness – better than adequate
Arbor run out – better than adequate
I think the Sawstop is the Rolls Royce of saws
Good luck on your choice.

“Ten finger Bob”<o:p></o:p>

[Alan Tolchinsky]

I bought a Sawstop because I couldn't stop thinking that if I cut my finger off (at some point in the life of my new saw-maybe 15 years or more with this saw) I would have to live the rest of my life thinking that I cut my finger off for about $1000 (difference in price between the Unisaw and Sawstop). Stop and look at your hand and imagine it without a pointer or middle finger. Not too much fun huh? I would have felt like I made a stupid decision now that I know about the Sawstop technology. Plus-one look at the Sawstop and I was sold, what a beast!

Ben, I see your reasoning but what about all the other machines in the shop? You could just as easily loose a finger or more on the bandsaw, miter saw, and even the router. I think the Saw Stop is a great safety improvement but nothing will make up for lack of doing things the safe way.

[Marc Ward]

Ben, I see your reasoning but what about all the other machines in the shop? You could just as easily loose a finger or more on the bandsaw, miter saw, and even the router. I think the Saw Stop is a great safety improvement but nothing will make up for lack of doing things the safe way.

First of all, it is lose, not loose. Secondly, if you can lose a finger on a tablesaw, bandsaw, miter saw or even a router, that is 4 machines...if you substitute a Sawstop for the finger eating table saw, you have reduced it to three machines. 25% decrease.

Because you cannot remove all risk is no reason to not remove some risk when you can.

[Joe Jensen]

Ben, I see your reasoning but what about all the other machines in the shop? You could just as easily loose a finger or more on the bandsaw, miter saw, and even the router. I think the Saw Stop is a great safety improvement but nothing will make up for lack of doing things the safe way.


I don't know about others, but I use the table saw more than 50% of the time. The guards that came with my PM66 are terrible and over time they ended up in a box in the corner. Here are some statistics on saw injuries.

Based on the investigations of the incidents occurring between October 1, 2001 and December 31, 2001 which allowed for the identification of “unspecified saws”, the Directorate for Epidemiology estimated that there were about 52,000 injuries treated in U.S. hospital emergency rooms associated with stationary saws for the calendar year 2001. About 38,000 injuries (73%) involved table saws, 7,640 injuries (15%) involved miter saws, 4,060 injuries (8%) involved band saws, and 2,300 injuries (4%) involved radial arm saws. Lacerations (68%), amputations (9%), fractures (9%), and avulsions (8%) were predominant and accounted for about 48,880 injuries for the calendar year 2001. Most of the injuries were to fingers which accounted for about 43,160 injuries (83%) The rate of hospitalization was five percent compared to the average rate of four percent associated with all consumer products reported through the NEISS system. The average age of the victims was 51 years old with the youngest at 2 and the oldest at 91 years of age. About 7 out of every 10 victims were between 15 and 64 years old. About 1 out of every 4 victims were 65 years or older. Men accounted for about 95 percent of the total injuries. About 51,000 injuries (98%) were associated with the saw operators.


Here is the link.

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia03/os/powersaw.pdf

[Ben Grunow]

I think they (Sawstop) are working on making a bandsaw and they should try a SCMS. I think the current arrangement would not work with the SCMS because the momentum of the rotating blade would move they blade down if it were suddenly stopped (not good since that's where your hand is if the brake has been tripped). But if they made more tools as well as they made the TS I would be in.

I do think that the TS is the most dangerous with the SCMS next. THey are the most frequently used and misused by all. Especially a cab saw b/c of the high power. My Dewalt 10" contractors saw is barely powerful enough to rip 2x where the 3 hp Sawstop is brutal (!). More caution and a slight learning curve with a new tool.

A guy cut off his thumb ripping oak flooring on the SCMS on my job a few years ago. Maybe that was my motivation. More safety is better for me.

[galen anderson]

you can minipulat wood to do anything as long as you are crazy enough to see it in your head :)