Shaper vs. Router, what can't I do?

[Scott Thornton]

After reading a few of the replies in my combo machine post, I have started to do some research on shapers.

What benefit would there be to add a shaper to my set of tools? I currently have a handful of routers, 3 router tables etc. I use the routers for cutting profiles, making raised panels etc.

What would a shaper allow me to do that I can't do with my router? And, who makes good ones?

Thanks.

[David Eisenhauer]

A 3 hp or larger shaper will allow you to run your shaping faster than a router in a table setup will, without burning up both the router and the router bits nearly as fast. With the advent of so many previously-confined-to-shaper-cutters on the market, a home-small shop can probably acheive most cuts with a router table as is possible with a shaper. A shaper can be quite a bit more expensive than a router table setup, although one can spend money on a top-of-the line router table with lift setup nowadays if one wants to. I haven't looked at the availabilty of those particular router bit profiles as compared to shaper cutters, but I'd guess if I was cranking out trim or moulding, Id be better off with a shaper than a router table. I use a shaper (Weaver) to crank out raised/flat panel doors and drawer fronts a lot quicker, more consistently, and safer than I feel I would with a router table. I also use a large router table setup for what I consider appropriate use in my shop.

[Jim Becker]

Shapers are generally heavy production tools and can cut profiles that your routers can't even consider in their wildest dreams. "Who makes good ones?" So many choices...including the Euro manufacturers/brands you asked about in the other thread. "Good" is subjective. Basic shapers can be had from just about any brand. When you get into features, such as tilting spindles, more spindle size choices, higher horsepower and heavy sliding mechanisms, you'll looking at either "old iron" or the aforementioned Euro outfits for the most part with some exceptions.

[tod evans]

scott, here`s a couple of discussions that have allready taken place;
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26912&highlight=shaper

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26849&highlight=shaper

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=24686&highlight=shaper

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=11007&highlight=shaper

as with any tool purchase the amount of cash you fork out will greatly influance your opinion of the tool....shapers especially when equiped with a feeder can easily make flawless runs of mouldings. single wheel pattern feeders will allow you to machine curved objects "hands free", sliding tables will allow you to do dead on accurate tennoning work, especially on items that would choke even a large router. the tooling costs more upfront but is actually cheaper in the long run. keep reading scott...02 tod

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Two things: power and speed.

Think size.
A shaper can cut the profile of entire 4" or even 6" rail or molding.
A shaper can take custom tooling.
A shaper can make your tenons in one pass.
A shaper can be a very high production tool.

A router is fast and small soooo where the shaper can't go the router does.

Shaper tooling can be very expensive.
The cost of a door frame set of tools for a shaper will be about 3 to 6 times that for a router set.

[frank shic]

Here's another great article:

http://benchmark.20m.com/articles/ShaperVersusRouter/shaper_versus_router.html

BTW you can gouge up your fingers pretty good on a router but you can lop off several on a shaper! Consider a power feeder if you decide to go this route.

[Don Baer]

at Warner the router Guru has a good write up on the subject. Here's a link.

http://www.patwarner.com/router_or_shaper.html

[Scott Thornton]

WOW, those were great threads...

Question though...what is the background that started those? A couple people got injured? Lost some fingers? Are they okay?

[tod evans]

WOW, those were great threads...

Question though...what is the background that started those? A couple people got injured? Lost some fingers? Are they okay?

couple of creekers tangled with router bits within days of one another.

hopefully the threads will give you a little insite? both of the links provided by frank and don make referance to "hobbiest" woodworkers?? i really see no difference.....if you can afford a shaper regardless of whether or not you`re pro or hobbiest you will really appreiciate what it can do for your work. for years i used routers way beyond what they where designed for but i couldn`t afford a shaper at the time.....heck i still push the envelope on both routers and the shaper but given the choice i`ll push the shaper..02 tod

[Scott Thornton]

Yes, these threads have been excellent for me, because as far as I knew...a shaper was no different than a router in a table, but swung a bigger blade, so my "assumption" was that it was more dangerous...

But now, after reviewing these threads and actually checking out some shapers, it seems to me, with the right accessories, they are probably safer than a router...

I'm now stuck trying to figure out what new tools to buy! I'm leaning towards separates, table saw first (I'm without one right now, as mine broke), bandsaw next...then need to look at a shaper and then replacing my jointer and planer with a combo machine...

I really appreciate everyone's help...this forum is awesome!!!

[Charlie Plesums]

Maybe the best comparison is my recent experience... I have a shaper, but had to give up my router table to make room in my shop.

A recent commission required a specific profile... my favorite vendor was out of the shaper cutters for that profile... and expected to be out for a couple months. They made me a deal on the same profile in a router bit (which I can run in my shaper). No comparison... The larger diameter of the shaper cutter gives a faster tip speed (even though I was at the recommended RPM for the router bit), and a smoother cut. With the ability to use the full 5 hp, the shaper gives a faster cut as well... I routinely raise panels in one or two passes, rather than 3 or 4 to get comparable results with a router bit. The router bits worked, but not as good as similar shaper cutters.

When we get past profiles... the bearings in my shaper are a couple inches in diameter, and far more robust than the wimpy bearings in the router...which may only be the motor bearings. VERY stable cutting. You probably prefer the 1/2 inch router cutters to 1/4 inch... now think of the shaper as a router having a 3/4 inch or 1 1/4 inch or 30 mm shaft. In fact, with the larger shaft I routinely stack the rail, stile, and panel cutters, and just switch between functions by adjusting the height on the digital readout. Neat, fast, and precise.

Even my crown moulding cutter... the one I had for my router... cuts far smoother in my shaper. Against the 50 pound cast iron hood and fence.

There is a down side... the shapers tend to consider 10,000 rpm fast, while the routers consider that slow. So small cutters that like the fast rpm do better in a router. Anything smaller than a 1/4 inch roundover I don't run in the shaper. And 1/4 inch is borderline, so I bought a shaper cutter for that roundover.

Did I mention that I like my shaper?

Charlie

[Chris Barton]

Hi Scott,

I have a slightly different take on this topic but, it has a central theme supplied by the previous replys. Shapers are production tools that are best suited to the rapid removal of stock to the desired shape. They can certainly make sense for the "average non-career woodworker" if; 1) you need to make a particular profile repeatedly or in large volume, 2) you can include a power feeder system, 3) or have access to an inexpensive source of cutters or money is not an issue. Shapers are generally more expensive than a router table. Cutters can cost hundereds of dollars for a single profile. For the cost of a single cutter set you can buy an entire phalanx of router bits. So, if you need to make 1K ft of crown moulding, 50 raised pannel dors, or 100 rail & stile joints, then a shaper may make much more sense than a router. On the other hand, if you need to make just a few of each of these on a relatively frequent basis, then perhaps a router table makes more sense. I won't even visit the safety issues because that tends to bring out irrationality on this particular topic.

[tod evans]

cutters really aren`t that much different in price any more with the influx of tai/chi carbide. for instance a one piece rail-nstyle bit for a router is 50 bucks, a shaper cutter same profile is 80. in todays world the difference isn`t that great for the amount of carbide (read sharpenings) that the shaper cutter provides. of course a person can go with true industrial tooling for the shaper and the costs climb quickly. here`s a link to cheap cutters....02 tod

http://www.woodline.com/

[edit] here`s a link to an m2 insert cutterhead from amana, knifes of various proflies are around 25 bucks...
http://www.toolstoday.com/displaytools.asp?num=5&pdescription=40mm+Steel+Knives+for+Profile+Pro%26t rade%3B+Insert+Shaper+Cutters