Planer selection. Benchtop or Floor model?

[Jeff Kerr]

Hello all.

First off. This is a great site. Stumbled across this a few weeks back and have enjoyed searching thru the threads at all the great posts.

My question is as a hobbyist is it overkill to go with a more expensive 15" floor model planer as compared to a 13" inch benchtop?

I have been looking at getting a planer but am torn on the 13 or 15 inch decision. The cost to go to a 15 inch isn't a whole lot more but I honestly cannot see where I would ever plane a board 2 inches wider than what a 13 inch planer can handle.

For the record, I have a dedicated building for my shop so I have the space and I have the electric for the 220v hookup.

I have enjoyed the posts comparing the Delta 22-580 to the Dewalt 735 but I haven't seen either of these compared to a floor model. In particular, the grizzly G0453. ( I am planning on making the 8 hour drive to the one day sale in Muncy this month)

Again it seems that as a hobbyist I really cannot justify the additional costs over either the Delta of Dewalt.

I am however set on getting the Grizzly G0490 8 inch jointer. It seems that of the 2 tools, I personally would get more from the 8 inch jointer and a 13 inch planer than I would from a 6 inch jointer and a 15 inch planer. LOML is great but I still only have so much money for tools. :p

I welcome your opinions. :o

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jeff..........First....Welcome to the Creek! Wade right in...the water' fine!

It's not hard to state that like everything else, you get what you pay for....I have a 13" lunchbox planer and it works well for what I do. I am a hobbiest, too. That being said there's a lot to be said with most power tools about size, power and weight.

I think most of the serious woodworkers here will agree with you that the 8" jointer and the 13 inch planer will safisfy the demands of most hobbiests. The place you'll miss that bigger planer is planing panels wider than 13 inches.

I'm sure some of the more experienced wws' here will chime in shortly.

Again..........Welcome!

[Dave Lehnert]

After seeing how hard a wood planer has to work. I would stick with a floor model unit. One big reason for me would be most ,if not all bench top units ,if the motor goes bad most likely that is the end of the planer. In a floor model you would be able to just bolt on a new motor. I am kinda tight with a buck but myself would never consider a bench top unit. but many woodworkers do have and like them a lot.

[Gary Breckenridge]

:cool: How much wood would you be planning on running through your planer? What do you you usually make? How wide and thick would the stock be? Need often dictates which tool to buy. Big stock means a floor model.:cool: If you make small items precision would be more important. I have a small Ryobi benchtop and sometimes I wish that I had a floor model.:o

[Alan DuBoff]

I'll throw my $0.02 in, I have a DeWALT 735 benchtop planer. It's the loudest tool I own, when I turn it on even the worms crawl to my neighbors yard. There is no wildlife around my house for blocks when I turn it on.

It does a decent job, but it goes through blades rapidly. I have purchased some HSS replacement blades, and will see if they last longer, but the stock blades are only 1/16" thick, opposed to 1/8" that others are, so they tend to wear quick.

If I had to do it all over again, I would definitely get a 15" floor standing model, mainly for noise level, and I think they do plane better. The low end of the 15" floor standing models in the open stand configuration is not much more than the benchtop planers.

For a hobbyist as myself, the benchtop planers do work fine, just factor blades into the overal cost, especially on the DeWALT 735. Ergonomically, I like the 735 better than some of the other benchtop planers, but the Ridgid or Delta on sale could be attractive.

[Norman Hitt]

First off, WELCOME to the Creek, Jeff. Your choice is certainly correct about the 8" Jointer first. After that, yes the benchtops WILL do the job, Buuuuut, in the long haul, (if you plan to keep this hobby for a few years), the benchtop planers will be more expensive, because you WILL wear out the motor and it's replacement cost, (even if the rest of the planer isn't worn out yet), will be very expensive, then it's decision time AGAIN, New motor, or upgrade to a floor model this time.:D

I certainly understand the money thing, but I think we woodworkers probably try to Justify the "cost" of our tools more than folks in ANY other hobby. As one for instance, think about the folks that don't even think about justifying their spending $25,000 or more for a boat, (whether for skiing, fishing or other hobby), when a $10,000 boat would actually be MORE than they could truly justify for the two or three times thay actually take it to the lake each year.:confused:

To Quote Jim Becker, "The most expensive TOOL is one that has to be replaced Soon, Or Often".

I know this probably just adds to the confusion, so Good Luck with your purchase decision. Remember, the Shopping is supposed to be FUN TOO.:D (maybe wait a couple of months to save a little more for the tool Kitty, & look for Sales/Deals)

[tod evans]

jeff, welcome! there is no substitute for cast iron and horsepower! the width isn`t really the issue when comparing the lunchbox units to the floor models. most of the tai/chi 15" units will easily remove 1/8" of oak from a 1x12 in a single pass, the lunchboxes just can`t do that! the stationary unit will run for years with only knife sharpening required(setting them is a pita!) if you use a lunchbox hard-3-4 hrs a day it`ll die shortly after the warranty runs out. the stationary will remove the same amount of wood in less time and keep on pluggin`. when shopping for woodworking tools the "universal" motor such as those used on lunchbox planers and direct drive entry level saws are not made to last and are generally expensive to replace. try to avoid tools that use them if you`re able...02 tod

[Mark Pruitt]

Benchtops ("lunchboxes") and floor models are apples and oranges. Almost two different animals. Search SMC archives and you will find tons of very helpful stuff.

What I gathered from a recent search was that the lunchbox planers will produce a finer finish cut and for that reason a couple of SMC'ers said that once they obtained a larger floor model they held on to the lunchbox for the final dimensioning cut only. One person was even innovative enough to mount a Dewalt 735 on top of a 15" floor model--seems like it was a Jet. That might be what I do someday, but for now my DW735 seems to be doing the job. (I've only had it for two weeks.) Alan is right about the noise level, but I typically wear hearing protection so for me that's not an issue.

The benchtop "lunchbox" planers cut more slowly, and remove less stock per pass. Some lunchbox owners get in trouble by trying to take too much in a single pass and wind up prematurely dulling the knives. The floor model cast iron planers are made for removal of more stock and perform the task more quickly.

I guess to me the ideal situation would be to have both a large cast iron planer and a drum sander for final cleanup. I don't have that kind of space currently so the DW 735 seems to be a reasonable solution.

BTW, a mega-ditto to your decision to go with an 8" jointer!:)

[Per Swenson]

Welcome Jeff,

I second what Tod said.

I would like to add we use a Rigid on install's

(it really is portable if you hire someone to carry it)

I have put mine through 6 years of on site work and only

now is it starting to reach the twilight of usefullness.

Per

[Mark Pruitt]

(setting them [planer knves] is a pita!)
..even if you use this? (http://www.grizzly.com/products/H2301) Seems like it would make the job easy--or am I falling for a marketing spin? Just asking.

[Byron Trantham]

Jeff, welcome to the creek.

I own the 735 also. It's one powerful machine and IT IS loud. I've had mine for about two years and have run a lot wood through it; primarily red oak and birch. My experience with planers is limited to my current 735 and a previous Delta 12 1/2". The 735 is bigger, more powerful and again, loud. When it dies I will probably look at a 15".

[tod evans]

..even if you use this? (http://www.grizzly.com/products/H2301) Seems like it would make the job easy--or am I falling for a marketing spin? Just asking.

mark, the factory supplied jig works supprisingly well. i think those are another lure for catching the fisherman not the fish.....02 tod

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

15" is not too big. It's bigger than I need, but it's not too big. It really depends on the type of work you will run through it. Big assed slabs of wood need a big planer. High production shops need a big planer -or two.

I'd rather spend the money on a larger jointer.

You can get by with a 12" planer / jointer just fine.

Here is the issue as I see it. Precision. That's it.

Cheap planers will snipe, gouge, tearout, and fail. They don't have the mass to tolerate much hard work, they have poor quality bearings that have slop in them right out of the factory door, and are not intended to last for very long.

You can pay a boat load of money for a huge planer that you'll never use. Or you can get a high end planer that is more the size you'll use and never have any problems.

I submit you might want to look at the Planer/Jointer combination machines from some of the high end makers like Felder, MM, Cassadei. There are some 12" models for around $3-Grand that will perform better than just about anything else you can buy.

The better quality Planer/Jointer combo machines also often come with the option to install a really sweet mortiser attachment which you can buy anytime.

BIG comes in handy when you get to looking at a drum or belt thickness sander. You want as big a one of those as you can.

Of course the down side to getting a high end machine right out of the gate is that you won't have the experience of the low end machines with which to compare. Can't have people not paying their dues.

[Jim Becker]

There is no such thing as "over kill" when it comes to tools...buy what you want and enjoy it. That said, your strategy of an 8" jointer combined with a portable 12.5"-13" planer is a good one and much better than the 6" jointer version! The wider your jointer, the better, IMHO...

And welcome to the 'Creek!

[Frankie Hunt]

Getting an 8 inch jointer and a lunchbox planer is a better choice than getting a 6 inch jointer and a foor model planer. Having said that.....

I think the floor model planer is a huge step up. The weight and power of it makes it easier to use, especially for just one person. You shove the board in one side, and walk around to the other side and take it out. With the lunch box planer you will need to bolt it to a stand or bench. If on a bench it will be the wrong height. If on a stand of its own it will still not be heavy enough. The outfeed rollers on lunchbox planers dont grip as well as floor model planers either. This can be an issue with that first pass of rough cut lumber.

Add to this that the lunchbox planers are way loud. Also you will eventually need to replace it because of it wearing out or because it breaks down if you use it a lot.

The down sides to the floor model planer are: cost, size and weight. Also, you have to manage the last cut to be not too shallow, or else you will have feed roller marks showing up on the last pass. This is an easy thing to manage though.

I would try to get the floor model planer if at all possible. IMHO

Frankie

[Ellen Benkin]

We have both floor model planers and the "portable" deWalts at the community college where I take classes. Students tend to use the floor model planers for the heavy work and the smaller planers for the final cuts. I hate the deWalts because of the noise -- don't even think of using one of them without hearing protection. That said, you'll never be sorry for getting the widest planer you can afford.

[Alan DuBoff]

Alan is right about the noise level, but I typically wear hearing protection so for me that's not an issue.Mark, nobody should even try to use this planer without hearing protection. :( This is the one gotcha on this planer. My blades were so bad after running a bunch of wood through mine, but flipping them did wonders, and at least they are reversible (i.e., cutting edges on both side).

The benchtop "lunchbox" planers cut more slowly, and remove less stock per pass. Some lunchbox owners get in trouble by trying to take too much in a single pass and wind up prematurely dulling the knives. The floor model cast iron planers are made for removal of more stock and perform the task more quickly.Maybe this was my problem, but I should see if those old blades are in my garage and take pics of them, the first side was toast. The second side wasn't as bad. I'm hoping the Infinity HSS replacements (http://www.infinitytools.com/products.asp?dept=1111) (just put in recentely) will last longer.

FWIW, like you, I didn't really have the space for a stationary unit, but given the chance again, I'd put it on a mobile base and store it out of the way when not in use.

[Bryan Somers]

Hi Jeff and welcome to the creek. These are 2 tools I hope to be purchasing in the next year, and while I cant speak much about the tool choices themselves heres my .02 on tool purchases in general and what I would tell my customers when I was in the car wash and pressure washer business, and that was to "let your use dictate how much your going to spend". I will agree the floor models are better, but is this somethimg we're going to only turn on for a couple of hours once every 3 months or so, or will it be used much more often. Only you can answer that.
Like you I am budget minded but not afraid to spend a little more for quality. So while the floor model would'nt be overkill it may be more than we need. I hope my spiel was helpful and again welcome theres some good people here.

[Greg Ladd]

Jeff,
I sent you a PM.

Greg Ladd

[Bruce Benjamin]

I think the floor model planer is a huge step up. The weight and power of it makes it easier to use, especially for just one person. You shove the board in one side, and walk around to the other side and take it out. With the lunch box planer you will need to bolt it to a stand or bench. If on a bench it will be the wrong height. If on a stand of its own it will still not be heavy enough. The outfeed rollers on lunchbox planers dont grip as well as floor model planers either. This can be an issue with that first pass of rough cut lumber.

Add to this that the lunchbox planers are way loud. Also you will eventually need to replace it because of it wearing out or because it breaks down if you use it a lot.

Frankie

Frankie, I have the DW735 and it's sitting on top of a homemade rolling cart. It's not bolted down and it weighs just about 100 lbs. It doesn't even budge an inch. I feed the stock in on one side and walk around and take it out of the other side. Virtually no snipe with only the rare exception of some that's so slight it's almost immeasurable. I don't know about other lunchbox style planers but mine grips the wood just fine. I've never had an occasion where the outfeed rollers didn't grip the wood. And don't you eventually need to replace all equipment? I've used mine a lot and it's still going as strong as it was a few years ago. That being said, I wouldn't expect it to hold up to production shop usage but it's sold to hobbyist's, not production shops. I got mine about 3 years ago and with discounts and rebates I got it shipped to my door for under $500 and it came with an extra set of knives and some, "Bonus tools". I'm not sure what lunchbox style planers you're referring to but it can't be the DW735.

Bruce

[Bruce Page]

Jeff, welcome to SMC. I started out with a 12” Delta lunchbox and now have a PM15”. Did I need the extra 3”? Nope, I think I only have used the full 15” once. My main motivation for the bigger machine was noise. The lunchbox style planers are notoriously loud. Mine was so loud, I hated to turn the darn thing on! The 15”, 3hp, PM is also loud, but it runs at a much lower sound frequency that my ears can tolerate.
Just something to think about.

[Bob Halley]

Gentlemen,
This is my first post on this forum, and I am not sure of the protocol, but, let me begin by saying that I do not consider this a reply.........rather a request for clarification on a specific situation. I am building a house, and plan to make the kitchen cabinets (cherry, mission style, frame and panel, panels made from baltic birch plywood with cherry veneer) and a few paint grade cabinets and shelves for the pantry area.

In my training, I was always taught to use the tablesaw to cut my stock to a specific size for the various pieces, with allowance included for the machining losses that would take place during the squaring-up process. The reasons given included: (1) cutting down the large stock would result in a reduction of cup, bow, twist, etc. within an individual piece, going into the squaring-up process, e.g., face planing(on a jointer) for a reference face, edge planing for a reference edge, straight and at 90 deg. to the reference face, planing for parallel faces and 'appropriate', consistent thickness ('appropriate' being either finished dimension or suitable for sanding) and then ripping to final width, using the original reference face. The ripping might be done in another sequence, depending on the quality of the saw and its ability to produce a 'glue edge'. (2) The smaller pieces would have some of the natural stresses in the wood released by the sawing and would be easier to work with, and (here's the point I am really interested in getting your advice about), could be successfully processed with smaller (not less capable in terms of quality) machines.

Given that the panels in my cabinets will not be of solid stock, I have no need to face plane anything wider than about 4".....same for thickness planing. I will be working with rails and stiles that are quite small (the largest piece will be 4" wide, most pieces being about 2 1/4 to 2 1/2").

If I can find a 6" jointer, that produces consistent results, and holds adjustment, would that not be sufficient for this project? None of the pieces will be longer than about 36". Likewise, in terms of width, thickness and quantity, would not a bench-top planer, say the Delta 22-580, likely handle this project well.

Some time in the future, after the house is built, I plan to buy a pair of combo machines, sliding saw/shaper (with a short slider) and a 16" jointer/planer (either a Felder or a Mini-Max). I just don't want to lay out the big bucks for the Euro machines while I am trying to pay for the house.

Any thoughts you gentlemen could share would be sincerely appreciated, both on process and on specific small machines for this initial project. Thanks in advance.

[Brad Townsend]

I'll throw my $0.02 in, I have a DeWALT 735 benchtop planer. It's the loudest tool I own, when I turn it on even the worms crawl to my neighbors yard. There is no wildlife around my house for blocks when I turn it on.

It does a decent job, but it goes through blades rapidly. I have purchased some HSS replacement blades, and will see if they last longer, but the stock blades are only 1/16" thick, opposed to 1/8" that others are, so they tend to wear quick.

If I had to do it all over again, I would definitely get a 15" floor standing model, mainly for noise level, and I think they do plane better. The low end of the 15" floor standing models in the open stand configuration is not much more than the benchtop planers.

For a hobbyist as myself, the benchtop planers do work fine, just factor blades into the overal cost, especially on the DeWALT 735. Ergonomically, I like the 735 better than some of the other benchtop planers, but the Ridgid or Delta on sale could be attractive. Same planer. Same situation. Same opinion, particularly considering the cost of a good 15" Griz or Yorkcraft. Buy it once and be done with it.

[Frankie Hunt]

Frankie, I have the DW735 and it's sitting on top of a homemade rolling cart. It's not bolted down and it weighs just about 100 lbs. It doesn't even budge an inch. I feed the stock in on one side and walk around and take it out of the other side. Virtually no snipe with only the rare exception of some that's so slight it's almost immeasurable. I don't know about other lunchbox style planers but mine grips the wood just fine. I've never had an occasion where the outfeed rollers didn't grip the wood. And don't you eventually need to replace all equipment? I've used mine a lot and it's still going as strong as it was a few years ago. That being said, I wouldn't expect it to hold up to production shop usage but it's sold to hobbyist's, not production shops. I got mine about 3 years ago and with discounts and rebates I got it shipped to my door for under $500 and it came with an extra set of knives and some, "Bonus tools". I'm not sure what lunchbox style planers you're referring to but it can't be the DW735.
Bruce


Hey Bruce,

I am not knocking your planer, don't take me wrong. Its a nice planer. And you are right, it will do the weekend warrior fine (thats the group I am in too). I was just relaying some experience that I have had using both type planers. Both in my own shop and in my Dad's shop. Dad was a cabinet maker, so yes, it was a production shop environment.

Jeff asked about both. I still dont think it is overkill to go with a floor model planer.

With a larger planer you can put a 10 ft long 10 inch wide oak board in one side, then walk around to the other side and wait for it to be spit out. You don't have to baby it along. We could not do that with the lunchbox planers we had. The first one was a Delta, I cant remember what the second one was. Perhaps it was the same model. The larger planers weights 400 to 500 lbs and will not budge. On the lunchbox planers, if you run some real sappy pine thru the planer then the roller can get all gummed up. It then slips. If you hit a high spot the big planer will just grunt a little more and keep going. The lunch box planer would stall or slip. To me it was nicer using the large planers.


And don't you eventually need to replace all quipment?

No. Most of the larger stationary equipment should last a lifetime. This includes the large planers, but excludes lunchbox planers.

[Al Willits]

Jeff we're kinda in the same boat, I'm definitely going with a 8" jointer and was going with the Dewalt planer, then a floor model, then the Dewalt, then a floor model, anyway, you get the idea.
But things I considered in my search were..

Most boards I seen are under 13"

I am a hobbist, not a production shop

I do not have unlimited funds

Amount of wood I'll be planning is appox 50-100 bf per month??

For a lunchbox unit, the Dewalt seems to get the best reviews and is priced at about $500, although there seems to be a problem with blades wearing out, misuse or poor quaility?

With a bit of patience and not overworking this unit it should last for years and do 85-90% of whatever I need it to do.

On the other hand, the foor model will take much more useage with out the need to take small amounts at a time, saving time and amount of times wood needs to be run though the planer.

It will be the only planer I'd ever have to buy, not quite so sure about the Dewalt.

It will do 2 more inches and would up the percentage to about 90-95% of the wood I use that needs planning

Yorks 15" is appox $800 and with shipping close to $950

I'm sure there's one or two things I've missed, but it seems a pretty big jump in price to get them two inches and saving time planning.

Ideally a nice used 20" model would be the way to go, good luck finding one though.

Anyway, let us know what ya end up doing.
I'll still be wishy washy and going back and forth for another week, then I got to decide as I'm getting the jointer soon.

Al :confused:

[tod evans]

bob, welcome to smc! here`s another take on buying temperory equipment; since you plan on upgrading in the future you`ll need to most likely get rid of the equipment you purchase for interum use, wouldn`t it make sence to purchase pieces with fairly high resale value? it would seem to me that investing a few extra bucks now, even in used equipment, would let you recoup the major part of your investment when you upgrade. plus you`d have the benefit of not having to limp along with severly undersized equipment. just food for thought......02 tod

[Jeff Kerr]

Well I pulled the trigger last weekend. Made the trip to Grizzly in Muncy and ended up getting both the G0490 jointer and the G0453 planer.

Man do these look nice in the showroom. :)

Hauled them back home on a friends flatbed. Unfortunately they are still at his house as I am trying to get a liftgate truck lined up to move them to mine. (Wish I owned a truck):(

Looking forward to getting these home before my buddy confiscates them for his own use.

[Jeff Kerr]

Well,

I got the planer and the jointer home last week and spent the weekend setting them all up.

Had no problems with any of the equipment being damaged at all. Took a while to clean all the grease off the units but once I got this done and set up I just had to test them out.

Wow! :D

I had debated on saving some $$ and getting a lunchbox planer. I'm glad I went the other way. First of all the planer is much quieter than I thought it would be given its size and horsepower. While I have not heard the lunchbox types run, this forum paints the picture that they are extremely loud. Not the case here. I would saw it wasn't much noiser than my Grizz cabinet saw.

Anyway. Thanks for all the input and advice. Now I think I need to go cut down a tree so I'll have some stock to plane:p :p