Had my first fly-off today

[Henry C. Gernhardt, III]

Folks---

So I emailed both my mother and father pics of the goblets I've made. Mom came back with "How much would one cost?"

Well, I decided it would be a good idea to make one for her, even if it's not perfect. So I hacked off a segment of wood from the ol' downed tree that I've been using, mounted it to the small faceplate (the big one was too wide), and got it up and spinning.

The blank was somewhere around 4" in diameter by the time I got it roughed to cylindrical, and measured in at about 7 or 8 inches long. I had attached it to the faceplate with brass screws (recommended by the manual)---in this case #8x3/4". I started hollowing the endgrain.

Well, of course, the spindle gouge caught, and the blank just rocketed off the lathe, flung towards the shed wall (I wasn't in the way, thank goodness). When I looked at the screws (still in the faceplate), I noticed that the threads were clogged up with wood.

My questions are all to try and figure out how to keep this from happening. Am I using too short of screws? Am I drilling my pilot holes to deeply? Do I need to use a wider drill bit for the pilot hole? Is it the fact that I'm using brass screws instead of steel? Is it simply that the wood is wet?

I know that using a chuck might help this, but I cannot as yet afford one... :(

Thanks for any help, folks!

[David Fried]

I'm not expert but ....

I had my first fly-off the other night. I was wondering if that piece of wood was too far gone to turn. Guess I got my answer!! :eek: I too was using my 3/4" screws. I tossed them in trash and used 1 1/4 on the next piece. I think by time they go through the faceplate they don't have enough length to really bite the wood.

I've never tried pilot holes. It's a little more effort without them but I know the screws are really biting when my forearm cramps up!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Henry........I suspect that 3/4" isn't enough bite after going through the faceplate. I use 1 1/4" and I am going to longer ones when I turn my first NE.....Need the extra length to make up for the curve away from the faceplate. I haven't been predrilling my holes.

I have had a couple of "launches" and they can be scary! Be sure to wear a full face shield. Even with a face like mine one can't afford any more damage!

Good luck!

[Jim Becker]

Screws into end-grain just plain don't hold very well. Personally, I'd be a lot more comfortable with a chuck for this kind of project where you need support on one end of an end-grain project. If you do use screws, you need larger ones with deep threads and a lot of them. Some turners who do large end-grain work have face plates that not only do the screws in the "standard" positions, but also have tabs that wrap to the side so you can get screws in the side of the rough-turned blank...they require that the "tenon" be of a specific diameter so that the tabs are flush with the surface of the roughed cylinder in that area.

[Lee DeRaud]

Finally dawned on me that you're driving those screws into end grain. No, 3/4" is too short, there's probably less than half that by the time they come through the faceplate flange. That might work going into face grain (e.g. for a bowl) or going into very hard wood, but most of the time it just won't get it done.

Dunno if #8 is the right size either: I'd use the absolute biggest ones that will fit through the holes in the faceplate. Even the little 2" faceplate I just bought will take #10 screws. For bowls, I use #14 x 1" with the 3" faceplate that came with the Jet mini-lathe (it has a 1/2" flange), but I'd go to 1-1/2" for end-grain.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I don't use a faceplate when doing end grain work. I put it between centers and cut a tenon then put it in a chuck. Never had one come off yet. Knock on wood. I found screws into end grain don't hold at all if you have any big catches.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Duh! It didn't even dawn on me he was screwing into endgrain! Yup! I'd turn a tenon and chuck it up!

[Henry C. Gernhardt, III]

Thanks for the info, folks! I had forgotten about the issues with screwing into endgrain. Unfortunately, I don't have much choice right now, as the funds don't allow for the purchase of a chuck. I'll go for the longer/thicker screws and hope it holds. :)

Anyhoo... Would anyone have any recommendations for a good, inexpensive chuck that'll fit 3/4x16TPI?

Thanks!

[Ernie Nyvall]

I just don't think I'd do an end-grain piece that long without a chuck or the rig Jim B wrote of. Even with a 2" screw you can easily strip the wood out without too much torque on end-grain because it is really cutting the wood with each turn. I may be overly cautious, and I am by no means an expert, but I see timber flying all over the shop with screws in end-grain on a lathe.

Ernie

[Brad Schmid]

Henry, aside from what everyone else has already addressed, i'm curious... What manual recommended brass screws for any type of faceplate work?

These are too soft, and an absolute "do not do" IMHO. Depending on the face plate size/hole sizes, I always use #12 or #14 steel screws at least 1 1/2" or 2" in length.

cheers

[Bernie Weishapl]

Henry I have a chuck from Grizzly. It was $42.50. I am pretty sure they still are that price. I needed just a good general purpose chuck and it works well for me. In fact a lot of times I will pull it out instead of the high priced one.

[Jeff Horton]

I have launched so many pieces of wood out of my old lathe that I started suiting up in riot gear. ;)

I picked up on end grain as soon as I read your post. DAMHIK To add to the other suggestions if you have enough metal you may can drill out your faceplate for larger dia. screws.

[Dennis Peacock]

Yup, longer and at least #10 steel screws, coarse thread should do the trick. BUT.......I bring up the tail stock to support the blank while rounding and general shaping of the outside of the blank. Then you can remove the tailstock and begin working the inside of the goblet from there. Lite cuts with a sharp tool will also help reduce the stresses on the screws holding the blank.

[Reed Gray]

If there is any way to drive the screws at an angle rather than straight in, they will hold a lot better (they will actually go through the grain, rather than parallel to it). Toe nailing at an angle is an old carpenters trick to get nails to hold better.
robo hippy

[Michael Stafford]

Henry, the word for the day is face shield. I hope you are wearing a face shield regardless of the mounting method. One chunk of wood flying off the lathe and hitting you between the eyes or anywhere else in the head for that matter will ruin your day. Be careful out there.

[Henry C. Gernhardt, III]

Okay. Let me see if I've got this straight:

#1: Aquire and utilize, each and every time, a full face shield. It will protect the nose, teeth, and possibly forehead where a set of safety specs will not.

#2: Faceplates don't like endgrain. If I have to use a faceplate on centerwork, use long, wide screws (at least a #10x1.5"), and try to "toenail" them in so the threads can grab sidegrain as well as facegrain. Use steel screws, as brass screws are just too bloody soft (NB: The manual which calls for brass screws is the lathe's own operating manual).

#3: Look into a Grizzly chuck. Given my budget constraints, it offers a fairly good value at $50 or so.

Does that about sum it up?

Thanks, all, for your input!

BTW: Anyone have any comments on the 1MT center set from PSI?

[Jim Becker]

Henry, the likely reason the "manual" mentions brass screws is that they are not going to bugger your tool like steel screws will if you happen to hit them. But they snap off REALLY easy! And bend easily. Etc.

[Matt Warfield]

This may be crazy, but could you put in some barrell nuts from the sides and then bolt the piece to the faceplate? Seems like it might be a bit too much work but it would certainly be secure.

Matt

[Frank Fusco]

Henry I have a chuck from Grizzly. It was $42.50. I am pretty sure they still are that price. I needed just a good general purpose chuck and it works well for me. In fact a lot of times I will pull it out instead of the high priced one.

Your Grizzly chuck can't be the big three jawed model. It won't hold wood. Period. It's a machine chuck they also sell for wood, but shouldn't. Good boat anchor.

[Barry Stratton]

Your Grizzly chuck can't be the big three jawed model. It won't hold wood. Period. It's a machine chuck they also sell for wood, but shouldn't. Good boat anchor.

I've got the same 4 jawed chuck Bernie has. It holds wood just fine!

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

Henry. I don't think I saw this in the answers above. Please take it for what it's worth!

SPINDLE GOUGES are for the OUTSIDE OF A PIECE.................. Never for the inside. They will catch every time. You can't ride the bevel on an inside curve with them. They can do much more than just cause the piece to fly off. They can break fingers, wrists, and other parts of your body!

Bowl gouges and scrapers are MADE for use inside of bowls, goblets and boxes. MUCH safer to use.

Just my safety tip for today.

Bruce