Workshop cabinets - MDF or Ply

[Charles Wilson]

I am going to be building some workshop cabinets. I have read in a Proulx book that he makes his frameless shop cabinets out of MDF. The issue is that I have an outside garage and even though the cabinets won't be getting wet, it does get damp (humid) out there in the spring and summer.

If I am going to be hanging the cabinets on the the wall, I will screw strips into the wall and attach the cabinets to that. If I am putting them on the floor, they will not be in direct contact with the floor. I will either build a base out of PT wood or put the cabinets on non-wooden legs.

The issues: With these precautions, will the MDF hold up or shall I go with plywood.

Should I build a framed cabinet (like in Norm's shop on www.newyankee.com) or will the frameless be good enough so I am not rebuilding for a while?

Regards,
Chuck

[Phil Phelps]

You know they are going to be heavy. Look, I doubt you're going to make very many cabinets, why not check out HD birch/maple plywood at dead on 3/4" @ $29.99 a sheet? It will make great cabinets and shelves that won't sag. I keep ten sheets on hand at my shop. It's a great bargain. I personally like face frames. Made correctly, they'll outlast you. Good luck on your choice.

[Frank Fusco]

I can't really advise which is better. Plywood is very expensive. MDF and OSB are less costly. I really don't know which is which. The counter guy at my local lumber yard doesn't either. Recently I bought some of the 'fine' fiber stuff for some shelves and other projects. Still close to $40.00 a sheet. Biggest downside (for me) is the weight. My strength isn't what it used to be and picking up that sheet felt like it was fastened to the floor incredibly heavy. If you have to handle by yourself, weight alone could be a consideration as plywood is lighter.

[Phil Phelps]

I can't really advise which is better. Plywood is very expensive. MDF and OSB are less costly. I really don't know which is which. The counter guy at my local lumber yard doesn't either. Recently I bought some of the 'fine' fiber stuff for some shelves and other projects. Still close to $40.00 a sheet. Biggest downside (for me) is the weight. My strength isn't what it used to be and picking up that sheet felt like it was fastened to the floor incredibly heavy. If you have to handle by yourself, weight alone could be a consideration as plywood is lighter.
MDF weighs 97lbs a sheet @ 3/4" 4'x8'. OSB is used as underlayment on roofs, siding, and such. All materials have their place. Some is in a dump.

[Howard Rosenberg]

MDF is cheaper.
It's flatter.
If you find you want to reconfigure it or just ditch it, it's not such a big deal because it's CHEAP.

MDF sags across its length because it doesn't have any grain.
So will plywood; it'll just take longer.
You just need to know how to enginerr for its unique characteristics and you'll never have a problem.

There are two main methods of building sag-proof shelves using plywood. I'd be happy to fill you in.
I've made bookcases using these techniques from 48" to seven feet.
I've also made them with adjustable shelves (a different series of techniques altogether)

It's an old-wives tale about "get a drop of water on MDF and it'll swell".
You'd need to submerge for an extended period it to start making a difference.

Same with humidity.
It'll move enough that you'd never be able to see it and your calipers will tell you it's not enough to worry about.

Having said that, I'd still put a finish on it - you haven't SEEN humidity until you've been in Toronto from late June to Labour Day and all my rolling shop cabinets are MDF with polyeurethane on them.

HTH
Howard

P.S. - a couple of my bookcases, cabinets, deask are in my old posts to give you an idea of some of the engineering associated with MDF.

[frank shic]

charles, have you considered 5/8" melamine? no need to worry about the moisture unless your entire garage gets flooded up to your knees! it's heavier but doesn't require finishing. throw in a little edge banding and a 5mm drill/router jig for the shelf pin holes and some confirmat screws and they'll be up in no time and last a long time.

face frames are nice, but it sounds like your goal is to build GARAGE cabinets and get them up fast, no? i love face frames but after lurking around woodweb's cabinetmaker's forum, i'm becoming a greater fan of FULL ACCESS cabinetry. BTW, i absolutely LOVED danny proulx's books on building kitchen cabinets and frameless cabinets - the only books with actual cutting dimensions (especially the former).

48" of MDF shelving WITHOUT sagging, howard?!? back supports/pins? reinforced edging with hardwood? please share the beans!

:D

[Allen Bookout]

Charles,

I am not sure what you mean by an outside garage. But since you are saying that nothing will get wet in there I am assuming that it is totally enclosed. In that case MDF (melamine) should be OK. If there is any chance that the edges will get wet it will swell and with tremendous force. Some how, during Hurricane Charlie, some water got into the edge of our main kitchen cabinet top that was constructed out of MDF and covered with laminate. It was at the edge where the outside window is. It swole enough that it bent the window frame really bad and jammed it all up. Had to be sledge hammered out and a new counter top and window installed. Therefore I am a little leary about using MDF anwhere there is any possibility of water contact.

However, MDF is cheap and you could always just throw one out and build another one if necessary. I think that you can guess that I would go with plywood. If you are going to paint them how about sandply? Otherwise how about HD birch/maple like Phil said.

Allen

[Dave Falkenstein]

Charles,

...In that case MDF (melamine) should be OK...
Allen

Allen - Melamine is typically made with a particle board core, not MDF.

Charles - I would also encourage you to consider melamine for your garage cabinets. I used frameless melamine cabinets in my own garage over 12 years ago, and have had not a single problem. Mine were do-it-yourself kit cabinets from Home Depot, which is yet another good alternative for you to think about. I think you can buy kits for less than the material to build them yourself. Check the kitchen cabinet section of Home Depot or Lowe's for a large variety of base and wall cabinets in white melamine.

[Corey Hallagan]

For my shop base cabinets I used 3/4 inch MDF and confirmant screws and bit with glue to assemble. 1 x pine for the face fronts. Just wished I had used plywood for the drawer fronts. It will hold up better. If I was building upper wall cabinets, I would use a lighter material, probably 1/2 ply or 5/8 melamine for those.

Corey

[Allen Bookout]

Charles, In that case MDF (melamine) should be OK.
Allen

Dave,

Sorry! I should have said MDF or melamine should be OK. I will try to be more concise.

Allen

[frank shic]

corey, how'd you guide the confirmat drill bit? did you eyeball it? my general drill guide recently broke so i'm thinking about getting the zentrix drill arrachment from hafele but i have a feeling that i might have to buy the drill to go along with it.

[Corey Hallagan]

Frank, I laid out all the lines etc. for shelfs ahead of time. I glued and clamped the carcass, piece by piece and drilled and screwed them in and it pulled the glue joints tight. For shelves I had the outside marked with a line to drill and screw on and used cheater boards on the interior the right height for the shelfs to sit on. Again, applied glue, then drilled and screwed them tight. Worked pretty well.
Corey

[frank shic]

so you basically freehanded it, didn't you corey? you set up the target lines, took aim and started digging - good job, matey! the first time i tried using the confirmat drill bit, i got about ten or eleven good shots and then my bit broke - MAJOR downer! after that i jigged up the general drilling guide for the proper offset so that the bit would go into the center line.

[Von Bickley]

If it was my shop, it would be plywood with face frames...;)

[Jesse Cloud]

Charles,
Unless you are looking to make real upscale cabinets, MDF or ply either one is fine. I would avoid HD ply. At least out here, their ply is pathetic. It warps if you look at it the wrong way and its full of voids. A good lumberyard will sell you much better product for another $5 a sheet.

Having said that, I have both ply and MDF cabinets in my shop. Both are working fine. I painted them a nice color. (personally, I just don't like the looks of melamine, but that's just me. its a great timesaver if you like it).

And, yes, for a 48 inch shelf, you will need some sort of reinforcement, maybe a good hardwood edge band.

If you haven't worked much with sheet goods before, see some of the threads on guided circular saw systems such as Festool or EZ Smart - best thing since sliced bread.

Good luck and lets see some pics soon!

[Charles Wilson]

Just bought one of the EZ guide system and a PC 325Mag saw. Looking forward to using them on this project.

Chuck

[Rafael Carias]

in your case I'd give plywood a whirl. mdf is fine but i don't know about that humidity thing.

by the way, if you go with plywood avoid HD ply and get some quality stuff from a trusted lumber yard.