Factory Modified LN 102

[Alan Turner]

I first saw a LN 102 in a different configuration when Mario taught the veneering techniques class at PFW last month. He used it to shoot the veneer edges. His 102 was made with a replaceable section in the sole to control, and tighten, the mouth. It is probably true that the standard LN 102 has a pretty tight mouth, but probably not nearly so tight as his. I figured it was made specially for him by LN, but he explained that while LN does not show them in the catalog, if you order one, they will ship it when they make up a bunch, but it could be a couple of months or so.

Well, I was given one by a friend who was repaying a favor that I did for him. It was an over repayment as it turned out, but he wouldn't let me pay him for it anyway, so I can't say the cost as I did not place the order directly, but just told him what I yearned for. I am guessing it is a $25 up charge or so, but I don't know at all, so that is just a wild guess. It was in stock as there was no delay at all.

The plane ships with one replaceable mouth installed. I did not take a measurement on the tightness of the mouth, but I can tell you it is very tight indeed. I don't think you could take over .005 for a single shaving, right out of the box.

The plane ships with a second mouth insert as well, but upon install, you need to file it to the desired mouth opening, and then lap it in for thickness as well. Mario has never had to do this, and I don't plan on it anytime soon.

Pix are below. The shaving shown are of end grain walnut and are full width, and quite thin. It really excels at end grain planing. This is one cute little plane.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Now that is way cool!

My bronze LN #102 is the most used day by day plane I own. They are a little gem. And I can see how the insert would be useful.

Great...one more thing to add on the list <g>...

Thanks, Mike

[Tyler Howell]

The 102 is my favorite.
I've seen the adjustable mouth but thought it was a special order:cool:
Very Cool

[Derek Cohen]

Alan

That is cool. I have a bronze #103 and I do love it so. It is quite exceptional on end grain even though it is a standard (20 degree) bed.

I do believe that your modified #102 is better suited for face grain. I'm afraid that it will not cut end grain any better than the standard #102. With end grain the size of the mouth makes little difference.

Here is a link to an little experiment I ran some time back (incidentally, in the thread I mention that I was using a #102 - the joke was that for years I thought it was a #102, and only later used my reading glasses to discover that it was not. Ha - all those years of attributing its excellent end grain performance to it being LA):

http://woodcentral.com.ldh0138.uslec.net/cgi-bin/archives_handtools.pl?read=68098

Sorry to be a killjoy - nevertheless it is likely to outplane mine on facegrain.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Wenzloff]

Think long edge grain for veneers, Derek. Veneer is very often figured and shooting the long, thin edges presents challenges for a plane. Which is why I really liked my LN #9 for the task since its mouth was adjustable.

Too, I have found a tight mouth to be beneficial shooting end grain on veneers as the fibers have less spring between the leading edge of the mouth and the blade.

Take care, Mike
who also hates to be a killjoy to a killjoy <g>...

[Mike Henderson]

A question from someone who doesn't own a 102 - Why not use the LN 60 1/2 which has an adjustable mouth? What's the advantage of using a 102 compared to the 60 1/2?

Mike

[Dan Forman]

A question from someone who doesn't own a 102 - Why not use the LN 60 1/2 which has an adjustable mouth? What's the advantage of using a 102 compared to the 60 1/2?

Mike

I was just wondering the same thing, any one have an answer?

Dan

[Alan DuBoff]

I was just wondering the same thing, any one have an answer?

DanThe 102/103 planes are quite a bit smaller, as I recall. I have a 60 1/2, and I would like something smaller to keep in my apron, and the 102 could be it. The lack of adjustable mouth has prevented me from thinking about the 102 in the past. Veritas apron plane also looks attractive to me. OTOH, a knight pocket plane would be good for that as well. A lot of options. This 102 mod looks nice.

[Alan Turner]

I am aware that the end grain test is not terribly dependent upon the size of the mouth. This is an excellent plane on reversing grain.

I too have the 60 1/2. but the size and weight are quite different. This is now my go to guy; the 60 1/2 used to be.

[Zahid Naqvi]

I had the opportunity to use this plane when I was visiting with Alan. It's a keeper. I was surprised by how hefty it felt for it's size. The mouth is so narrow that you have to hold it against light to detect it. I took a few cuts with the 102 and then with a Stanley 60-1/2, big difference. The problem I have with my 60-1/2 is that it's hard to use one handed, but the knuckle cap on the 102 makes it a breeze to use one handed.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

Good points Mike. You and Alan obviously have the experience to know what you are talking about. [oh ya, Mario too!]

[Derek Cohen]

Mike wrote: <I>What's the advantage of using a 102 compared to the 60 1/2?</I>

Obviously the two block planes are of different size. Both are small enough for comfortable one-handed use. However, the #102/103 is significantly smaller, not just length-wise but in width. So it just snuggles (no other word for it) into your palm. But it is the weight of the #102/103 that is amazing. It will astonish you when you pick it up for the first time. It is not really heavy but, owing to its size, gives the illusion of higher-than-average mass (at about 15 oz vs the 25 of the #60-1/2).

The LN 60-1/2 is 6 1/4" long and 1 3/4" wide. The LV LA Block is 6 3/8" long and 2" wide. By contrast, the Stanley #65 is 6 15/16" long and 1 15/16" wide.

The LN #102/103 is 5 5/16" long by 1 5/8" wide. The LV Apron Plane is 5 1/2" long 1 3/4" wide.

(This post got me to finally get these figures together).

Here is a picture of the LNs and #65. I have not handled the LVs.

<center> <div><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/Blockplanecomparison.jpg" border="0" alt="" /> <br /></center>

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks for the information all. I certainly can appreciate that the 102 "fits" better into your hand. For example, between the LN LA block and the LV LA block, the LN fits my hand much better.

One more question. I can understand having the 102 as a commonly used block plane, but why would you want a really tight mouth on it? I use my LA block for a bunch of different things, not just for fine trimming. Once you put the tight mouth on the 102, do you only use it for very fine trimming and grab another plane for other uses?

Mike

[Alan Turner]

Michael,
In a word, yes. You would be there all day trying to pull a 1/8" chamfer on a corner. But, to just clean something up a bit, the 102 with the tight mouth excels.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Michael,
In a word, yes. You would be there all day trying to pull a 1/8" chamfer on a corner. But, to just clean something up a bit, the 102 with the tight mouth excels.
And Michael, I would define for myself what Alan is saying that because I just soften edges--break the sharpness from a corner--more than chamfer or round, I find it so useful.

Take care, Mike

[Tony Zaffuto]

Can anyone state the weight of a stock 102 or 103?

[Derek Cohen]

<I>Can anyone state the weight of a stock 102 or 103?</I>

As noted in my previous post, it is 15 oz.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Henderson]

Alan, Mike, Thanks for clarifying that. I sent a note to LN and asked for the price on the plane with the tight mouth. When I get a response I'll post it here.

I haven't decided if I will purchase the plane. I've been happy with my LA with an adjustable mouth so far. But it's good to know of the option. Alan, thanks for posting about it.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Here's the reply I got from Lie-Nielsen regarding the modified 102:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi Mike,
The 102 Special as we call it is $115.00 plus shipping. We don't advertise this plane but it is available for immediate shipping. Please call us at 800-327-2520 if you'd like to order one.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Mike

[Alan Turner]

Michael,

Good research work. Well worth the modest upcahrge, IMHO.

I have just put mine through the paces, together with my 604C, handplaning a 1.5" thick, 7' x 3' curly cherry countertop/island top for a client. Curly cherry is one of the more difficult woods to hand plane, and where I couldn't get away from minor tearout in a few areas with the smoother, I was able to tackle it with the new 102. It was also useful on the edges. The end of this heavy guy is a full radius, and the 102 did a great job on the radiused edge, which the client wanted finished just flat; no molded or sculpted edge. It is for his weekend house. I was able to source a flitch, so all of the boards (3) and two matching shelves, are from the same tree, with zero sapwood to deal with.

[Tyler Howell]

Don't get me started on more must have planes. I'm weak and can't resist the temptations.

[Mark Singer]

The 102 is an exceptional plane....I even use it as a smoother on smaller areas! This mod looks quite good....For veneer edging I sandwich it between two boards and shoot with a larger plane with a 90 degree side...

is morning I did a couple of small things. Edge joint the resawn veneer using a simple shooting set up...there is not enough "Edge " to keep the plane square freehand. Laying clamps flat helps when gluing...much less glue than normal(less surface) and much less pressure on the clamps. Weight the top to keep the thin veneer from buckling.<!-- / message --><!-- attachments -->
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[Don Baer]

Don't get me started on more must have planes. I'm weak and can't resist the temptations.

Besides, you are being drawn into the vortex...:D