Unisaw update #3

[Jeff Horton]

Didn't seem to be a lot of interest in the last update but probably because it didn't look like more than a pile of pieces. Doesn't matter, I am like a parent with a new born child. :) I will just show you photos anyway!

It's start to look like a saw now! Just put the tags back on today and and the hand wheels.


40027


Not a good photo but I just like the way you can see a reflection in the paint. :cool: I guess I am a bit surprised at how different it looks from when I started.


40028


As far as I know and that is subject to change, all that I need now is to install the swith plate (paints drying), then the switch and install a new power cord to the switch and the top is ready to go on. The top was worse than I expected. There is some pitting in it that I really didn't expect. It's not worth the cost of having it ground because it's still smooth. Just was surprised to see it. It didn't look like it was pitted.

I am working on fence for it now. It's drying to and I have a few small part I need to derust/clean/polish etc. I hope to have this project done before next weekend is over.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Your making great progress Jeff! Keep 'em coming!

[John Scarpa]

looking good!

[Jim O'Dell]

I wish I could find a unit to rebuild, and had the money to do it. It's coming along great, and you will have the added satisfaction that you put it all together yourself. Jim.

[Matt Meiser]

Looks good. From my experience, it is much more satisfying rebuilding an old machine than cleaning cosmoline off a new one.

[Steve Clardy]

Looking great!

[RichMagnone]

Nice job. I hope to find some old iron one day and follow that same path. Keep up with the updates.

[Jeff Horton]

I wish I could find a unit to rebuild, and had the money to do it.

Assuming you mean money to rebuild I have been surprised at how cheap the rebuilding costs have been. Maybe I was just fortunate but neither one I have done has needed much other than sandpaper, paint and a few screws/nuts/bolts to replace old rusty ones.

I have found the most used tool (besides sandpaper :)) is the wire wheel on the grinder. I use it all the time! Biggest expense has been paint and related supplies.

A word of advice if you look at an old used machine. Find one that is complete or only missing something you are sure you buy! I think if I had had to replace a lot of parts it could have cost a lot more. And some parts are just hard to find! I discovered a couple of missing parts on the Unisaw and not sure where to find them. At least they are not critical.

[Jim Becker]

Beautiful job, Jeff. That's going to be a fine saw in your shop!

[Corey Hallagan]

Sweet, I love these projects. Looks like your doing a wonderful job!

Corey

[Greg Koch]

Jeff,

Very nice progress. You have done a great job on what really looked like a basket case...from the first pics, IMO.

Congrats....a little PS Elements enhances the pic just a bit...

[Alan DuBoff]

Jeff,

Curious to the state of the saws when you bought them, did you buy them knowing you would replace the motor? Did the motor work on either of them?

Did you buy them from a famous auction site on the net?

How much can an old saw be found for? I'm willing to do the work, and even get a motor, and it looks like it requires a fair amount of work. I realize all saws are different but was just trying to get a ball park. Will one have $500 into a saw plus the time, or $200 plus the time, etc...

Is it worthwhile to get a 3-phase saw and find a 1-phase replacement? It sounds like you might have found 1-phase saws that just needed to be cleaned up.

[Jeff Horton]

Jeff,

Curious to the state of the saws when you bought them, did you buy them knowing you would replace the motor? Did the motor work on either of them?
Oh, are you going to be surprised then! :) Unisaw before link (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=36619)

It's kind of a long story of how I aquired this saw. I answered an ad for a DeWalt RAS in rough shape that a gentleman wanted to give to someone that would restore it. It belonged to his father, cabinet maker,had a stroke, died 15 +/- year ago, tools in storage 20+ years, etc.


Did you buy them from a famous auction site on the net?
I ended up making a deal for basically a cabinet shop full of tools with the gentleman. The Unisaw was part of the deal.


How much can an old saw be found for? I'm willing to do the work, and even get a motor, and it looks like it requires a fair amount of work. I realize all saws are different but was just trying to get a ball park. Will one have $500 into a saw plus the time, or $200 plus the time, etc...
I watch all the older Unisaws that come up on Ebay and I doubt you can get one for $200 very seriously on there. If you did it would be a basket case. I just watched an auction for one that even I would have hesitated to buy. But it was a 1939 model, thats the first year, and it was ROUGH and it brought $250. Probably because of the year model. Search Ebay for item #7623136368. You will be surprised!

You can probably find an old one on Ebay for $500 if you keep an eye open but I doubt you would get one for much less. Best bet is watch local and keep the word out that you looking. Just be patient and wait on the deal to come along.

Buying a used one is always a gamble because you never know what going on inside the saw. But if none of the castings are broken and all/most of the parts are there you should be able to rebuild it for less than $100. From what I am seeing there is not a lot to go wrong. There very simple inside. Just look for a running saw that you see and hear cut some wood.

Missing parts can run the cost up quickly. If you want to replace a fence then that can get pricey too. My biggest expense on this one was new rails for the fence. I wanted to keep the Jetlock fence and the rails were so rusty I didn't even want to try to save them. I found a new set of long rails for $80 +/-. I bought a goose egg cover but that was an I want, not a have to have.

My saw was 98% complete and in working order. Just suffered form storage decay. It has been primarily cosmetics needed. I have spent around a $100 restoring it. Not counting the motor cover.


Is it worthwhile to get a 3-phase saw and find a 1-phase replacement? It sounds like you might have found 1-phase saws that just needed to be cleaned up.
It depends. :) Figure a new Leeson motor is going to cost you $250+/- and you may need a new motor starter too. Or you could go with a Variable Frequency Drive for $150-$250 and use the 3 phase motor and switch. I wouldn't pass on a 3 phase saw just because it was 3 phase. I would just have to look at the $$'s to convert it. I just depends on how good a deal you got on the saw.

I am not expert by any means! Just offering what I know and think here.

[Alan DuBoff]

Oh, are you going to be surprised then! :) Unisaw before link (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=36619) Nice job on the cleanup. Shaping up into one kick @$$ saw, IMO.

I ended up making a deal for basically a cabinet shop full of tools with the gentleman. The Unisaw was part of the deal.That seems like a nice score.

I watch all the older Unisaws that come up on Ebay and I doubt you can get one for $200 very seriously on there. If you did it would be a basket case. I just watched an auction for one that even I would have hesitated to buy. But it was a 1939 model, thats the first year, and it was ROUGH and it brought $250. Probably because of the year model. Search Ebay for item #7623136368. You will be surprised!I was searching last night. Was looking over owwm.com also, and like the looks of some of the Walker Turner saws, and the Olivers. I wasn't sure if a newer, more powerful motor can be put on most any of them, so if a 1HP saw is found, if one can just replace the motor with a 3HP for instance. I'm sure that is dependent on the space and motor mounts possible, but providing one was willing to work around those issues, I assume the table and frames can handle larger motors on those older saws?

Missing parts can run the cost up quickly. If you want to replace a fence then that can get pricey too.Yeah, sometimes these projects turn into a can of worms, but the older saws are so cool...

It depends. :) Figure a new Leeson motor is going to cost you $250+/- and you may need a new motor starter too. Or you could go with a Variable Frequency Drive for $150-$250 and use the 3 phase motor and switch. I wouldn't pass on a 3 phase saw just because it was 3 phase. I would just have to look at the $$'s to convert it. I just depends on how good a deal you got on the saw.Sounds like another area that could be a can of worms. I've seen a few old saws in my neck of the woods recentely, and am interested in them.

I am not expert by any means! Just offering what I know and think here.I'm no expert either, and don't want to be...I just want to be a hobbyist. ;)

[Jeff Horton]

As Keith Bohn has said, as restorations/rebuilds go, Unisaws are simple machines! There are a couple of tricks on taking them apart on the old ones. Ifyou can work on a car, you work on a Unisaw.


I was searching last night. Was looking over owwm.com also, and like the looks of some of the Walker Turner saws, and the Olivers.I wasn't sure if a newer, more powerful motor can be put on most any of them, so if a 1HP saw is found, if one can just replace the motor with a 3HP for instance.

Very cool saws! Wouldn't mind having one myself but I have no need. But I wouldn't turn one down at a good deal either. :) As for motors I don't know anything about those saws. I do know...well I have read that on the older Unisaws like mine with the oval hole on the side the new motors don't clear. That means you can't get 45 degree tilt without cutting the cabinet.

But the older Repulsion/Induction motor (the bullet shaped one) rated at 1 hp is supposed to equivalent to a much higher HP modern motor. I have heard it compared to 3hp. I was very disappointed when I realized my saw only had a 1hp motor. I was told that I would be amazed when I started to use it that I wouldn't want to replace it. Everything I read about them says they have more power than the 1hp rating implies. I will know in a about a week. ;) So don't be to hasty to replace a motor, these old guys worked with the same lumber we do!

I realize that this is not for everyone, but I have a had a ball rebuilding these two machines. I remember what attracted me to old cars years ago. But these can been done in weeks not in years. Thats a plus at my age and with my patience level. :rolleyes:

[Kirk Poore]

...

It depends. :) Figure a new Leeson motor is going to cost you $250+/- and you may need a new motor starter too. Or you could go with a Variable Frequency Drive for $150-$250 and use the 3 phase motor and switch. I wouldn't pass on a 3 phase saw just because it was 3 phase. I would just have to look at the $$'s to convert it. I just depends on how good a deal you got on the saw.

I am not expert by any means! Just offering what I know and think here.

As an additional data point, let me offer my example. I bought a 1959 Powermatic 65 last fall for $240. The PM 65 is the predecessor to the PM 66, and is in the Unisaw class of cabinet saws. It had been heavily damaged, probably from being dropped, and the previous owner had started but had given up the restoration after getting both trunnion brackets welded and putting in new arbor bearings. It had no motor, and the starter was sized for a 3-phase 1-1/2 hp motor and I couldn't get new heaters. I ended up spending between $500 and $600 dollars for a new 3hp single phase Leeson ($320), starter off ebay, new heaters, new pushbutton station, paint, cord, lock knobs, motor pulley, and various minor items, not counting money spent on buying the wrong stuff. Fortunately the fence was intact. Unfortunately, the splitter casting was broken and most of it missing, as was the guard. So I still need to get an after-market guard (no, PM 66 parts won't work for this, alas).
This is the completed saw::
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/Images/3693-A.JPG

You can see the "before" image here:
http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=3693

The saw runs great, and outlay in time and materials effectively bought me a saw worth twice what I paid. If the trunion brackets had still been broken, I wouldn't have touched the saw since I can't weld. But everything else went smoothly for someone with no special skills. As long as you have the time and space to work, rebuilding a cabinet saw is a good money-saver. I'm not sure I would bother with a lesser saw, since the rebuild won't be much cheaper.

Kirk Poore