Plane recommendations?

[Larry Cooke]

Hello everyone,

I've been a power tool person all my life. The first hand plane I used was probably as dull as garden hoe and I've always felt that hand tools were way too much work. So I went down the corded path.

Lately, after seeing some _real_ hand planes in action I've been thinking that maybe I ought to look into getting some advice on what to start with.

For someone that's new to hand tools, what would you suggest for some basic planes. I'd like to know if maybe there's a basic set to start with. Right now I have only one plane in my shop (I know, I'm ashamed of myself.) but again not knowing the right plane for the job I've always used power tools.

I have a few things in my shop to get straightend out but my first real project is going to be to build a work bench. So I'm thinking about a plane that could be used to level a laminated table top.

Any advice and suggestions would be very much welcomed!

Larry

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

The best thing for leveling out a large surface like a workbench would be a jointer plane (e.g. a Stanley #7 or #8 or their equivalents from other companies). The #7 is 22" long, the #8 is 24" long -- this helps level out the high spots. Much the same way you want a long bed for a jointer, same with a jointer plane in order to get a flat face.

If you'll be working from rough lumber, a scrub plane will help level out the surface faster, but it'll still need to be finished with a finer plane.

My personal list if I could have just four planes (assuming I wasn't working lumber that was super-rough, because then I'd also need a scrub plane):

1) #4 (Smoother)
2) #7 or #8 (Jointer)
3) #60-1/2 (low-angle block plane)
4) well, I have too many candidates for #4, alas.

Numbers given are for Stanley planes, but I'm not discounting other styles or numbering systems.

If I can make a recommendation, nearly any of the videos available from Lie Nielsen are truly wonderful. I recommend any of the David Charlesworth videos, Cosman's Rough to Ready, and especially Chris Schwartz's Coarse, Medium, and Fine, which discusses types of planes and when you want to use what (and the power tool analogies).

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Larry,

Knowing how I work now and as for bench planes, if I were just starting out and was buying new planes, I would get the bevel up planes from Lee Valley. The Bevel Up Smoother, BU Jack and Jointer. All share the same blades. Speaking of which, I would get a couple extra blades with the higher angle bevel already ground.

These 3 planes can serve most all one's bench plane needs for relatively low new cost.

Add to that a couple block planes. Either the LN or LV standard block plane and if wanting a plane to trim tenon cheeks, the LN rabbet block plane. And the 102 LN is a jewel to keep in the shop apron or a pocket that I cannot imagine being without the little bugger.

If wanting a plane to use on a shooting board, either the LV low angle smoother or if I was flush, nothing beats the LN #9 iron miter plane. Wish I hadn't sold mine last year.

All that said, if I was just getting started with planes, I wouldn't know whether I really wanted to invest heavily into them. What if I explored them and decided I didn't want to go further--and it can be a rabbet hole.

I would probably pick up a nice vintage #5 for shooting shorter boards, and a #7 for the bench top and jointing longer boards. As well, a good block plane has so much utility even for predomently power tool users. A good #4 1/2 for a dedicated smoother, with a thick replacement blade and chipbreaker. For the #4 1/2, unless one can find a really good vintage one, it pays to pop for a new one. Either the LN or as mentioned above the BU Smoother from LV.

Take care, Mike

[tod evans]

larry, the most used planes in my shop are the low angle block, rebate, 4-1/2 and 8....02 tod

[Jim Becker]

Low angle block plane is a great place to start 'cause even a heavily-electron-influenced woodworker will get a whole lot of use out of it. I have and love the Lie Nielson low angle adjustable mouth version, but folks also speak highly of the Lee Valley Veritas planes, too...assuming you are buying new.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Larry, I was in your shoes about 2-3 yrs ago, except that I was starting in woodworking with little prior experience. Looking back I think the best thing I did was to buy a used Stanley #5 from ebay. The process of dismantling the plane, cleaning up each componant, tuning up parts and then putting it all together was the best lesson I could get on how a hand plane works. Knowing how your tools work goes a long way in terms of satisfactory usage, the same is true with power tools.I would suggest you go the same route.

If I had only two planes to buy, with the ability to complement them with power tools, I would get a Stanley 60-1/2 low angle block plane ($25-$35 used) and a Stanley #3 or #4 ($30-$60 depending on condition) smooth plane. The block plane is very versatile and will be used quite frequently, while the smoother is a good first plane to play with becasue it is easy to use, and if tuned properly creates stunning results which no machine can match. Once you get comfortable with these two you can decide to upgrade to the more expensive LN type planes. Or do what most of us old iron aficianados do: buy, refurbish and use old planes. The next step in the evolution is to make your own wooden planes, which I plan to embark on this weekend.

Welcome to the slipery slope, you will have lots of nice companions, sliding speeds vary by individuals :D

[Mark Singer]

I would just get the bevel up trio from Lee Valley and prbably add their medium shoulder plane. Of all my planes those get the most use and do the best job!

[Pam Niedermayer]

I recommend getting either the LV or LN bevel up jack, which can do everything from jointing through smoothing. Use it until you find another task that can't be done with your plane, then ask again. Use it until you decide you'd like to experiment with another smoother for another wood type or a longer jointer, then ask again. Eventually, if you stick with this for a couple of years, you'll probably find you seldom use that first plane anymore, instead using many specialty planes. Meanwhile, you'll have a plane that works right out of the box, which is extremely valuable for a beginner.

Pam

[Brian Hale]

For me, I'd go low angle block first, most likely the one from Lee Valley based on quality/price. I bought a Stanley low angle block a while back and it took a fair amount of time (mostly learning) to get the sole flat and the plate for the adjustable mouth to work smoothly and sit flush with the sole. You'll get a LOT of use from one of these for things like breaking the sharp corner of a board, trimming end grain and even cleaning jointer marks from the edge of a board. Mine is alway on my bench.

Second would be a 4 1/2 or Lee Valley Bevel Up Smoother. Most likely the BUS because the throat is so easy to adjust. This will be a nice general purpose tool that can flatten a moderate sized glued up panel and still joint the edge of a board (with some practice) prior to glue up.

While some will disagree with me, you should get a honing guide soonest. This will take some of the pain out of sharpening a 2"+ wide blade. You'll have enough learning to do with the new planes and anything less than a very sharp blade will frustrate the heck out of you and make the learning curve just that much steeper. Learn to sharpen by hand later when time allows. I'm real pleased with the Veritas MKII honing guide from Lee Valley but there are other less expensive ones out there.

After that I'd go with a longer jointer plane like the one from Lie Nelson or Lee Valley. These will flatten a large panel like the bench top you mentioned and joint the edge of long boards for glue up.

It's been said that some of the less expensive planes, like the ones from India, can be made into good users for 1/4 the price of the ones I've mentioned. This is true but it adds another dimension to the learning curve. You'll most likely try it right out of the box with fair to poor results, then put some time into tuning it up and your results may get better. My theory is that if you get at least one good quality plane and use it, you'll know what to expect from others and your tuning effort will have direction.

Best of luck and be sure to keep us informed of your progress and frustrations. ;)

Brian :)

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Meanwhile, you'll have a plane that works right out of the box, which is extremely valuable for a beginner.

I cannot stress this enough. There were four first-timers to my hand tool class this quarter.

Two of us have extensive plane collections and are therefore staying around. One person, the first night, couldn't believe that planes could possibly need fettling. He left, said he was going to join the power tool class, and never showed up there, either. The other person spent a lot of time fettling her plane (which now works great), but she's considering giving up on hand tools because she got discouraged. I'm hoping that she'll stick with it, though.

[Mark Stutz]

Larry,
Welcome to the slippery slope! I dare say, though, that it might be as bad as that spinning vortex they call turning!:eek: :D Pam, Deirdre, and Brian have all said it, but it is so important that you use a plane that works well initially. It's fun to take that old rusty Stanley and make it take .001 shavings, but until you know what a plane is supposed to feel like, it can be very frustrating. LN and LV planes will both be good to go out of the box, but if you can find someone nearby with a shop full of planes, I daresay they would be extactic to help grease the slope, and let use use one to get the fel of it. Have fun.

Mark

[Larry Cooke]

Wow, lots of good suggestions everyone! Thank you.

Okay, after reading everything here, I think I'm going to do what Pam suggests. At first I was thinking of buying a starter set of some sort but I like the idea of starting with one and working my way up as needed.

I know the first task I'm going to have is leveling or smoothing a bench top so the jack would be a good start I guess.

Now, with this thought in mind what would you suggest for a decent starter? I just some searching and there are a lot of planes to choose from!
I know Pam suggested LV or LN maybe a model number or a store to suggest. Anyone using Knight Toolworks planes? Sorry, I know it sounds like a dumb question to those in the know but I'm really green at this right now.

Thanks again everyone!

Larry

[Ken Bryant]

I have many planes, but have gradually stopped using all but my Lie-Nielsens. The following are the ones I find most useful:

1. No. 8 jointer -- it lets me keep edges straight
2. Low angle jack plane -- it lets me do rough cuts quickly
3. Small bronze block plane -- it touches up everything, all the time, and is great for doing quick freehand bevels
4. Number 4 1/2 smooth plane -- does what the name says
5. Large shoulder plane -- trimming shoulders and doing smallish rabbets
6. Scrub plane -- first stage in smoothing a board

[William Daly]

I have an extensive collection of planes, both old and new. The choices are daunting for anyone starting out.

I have both wooden planes (ECE EMMEREICH) PRIMUS and also the CLIFTON Bedrock style of planes that I like quite a bit

The least expensive sources for those two manufacturers are "THE BEST THINGS" 1-800-884-1373.

I also have several STANLEY & RECORD planes from Ebay that I have cleaned up and more or less restored.

Usually the Stanley blades are too thin and need to be replaced with a HOCK blade or a CVLIFTON blade to get good results.

I have some Lie Nielsen, but have heard from others that the bronze bodies, sometimes leave marks on the wood. I do not have that exeperience personally, but maybe others have.

Lee Valley/Veritas also sells Record planes, which are the Stanley/Bailey design, alas not the Bedrock design.

No matter what, though, you still need to lap the sole and flatten the blade and adjust the chipbreaker and make suere the frog seats proeprly

[Mike Wenzloff]

Larry, then you would do yourself a favor by purchasing the Lee Valley Bevel Up Jack:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49708&cat=1,41182

Take care, Mike

[Mark Stutz]

Larry,
The Knight planes are very good. Also ready to use when you get them. A wooden plane adds another element to learning to use a plane, though. Most are adjusted mechanically by tapping on the blade and/or the body of the plane to adjust the iron. Those that use woodies find it easy...there seems to be a steep learning curve, however, and one that I haven't got the hang of yet. The ECE planes with mechanical adjusters are very nice however.

Mark

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Lee Valley doesn't sell Record planes any more (afaik) because they're out of the plane business altogether. Back in 2001, that's where I got my Record planes.

[Larry Cooke]

Larry,
The Knight planes are very good. Also ready to use when you get them. A wooden plane adds another element to learning to use a plane, though.Aha, enough said then. I don't need to be adding any more elements to this equation. So I'll heed your advice and wait until I really know what I'm getting into.

Thanks,

Larry

[Larry Cooke]

Lee Valley doesn't sell Record planes any more (afaik) because they're out of the plane business altogether. Back in 2001, that's where I got my Record planes.Deirdre,

The link lead me to a Veritas Low-Angle Jack plane. Are you saying I should be looking for a Record plane? Or will the Veritas work?

I haven't ordered it anything yet, I've been looking at sharpening systems (low end mind you.) Until I know I'll have a way to sharpen the blade I'm still looking. Maybe a suggestion there too? FWIW, I know I can use it for my chisels (boy do they need to be sharpened...) Been using a knife stone set and it's not the best as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks,

Larry

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Sorry, hadn't looked at the link.

Lee Valley used to sell Record planes as well as their own. Record was bought by Rubbermaid a few years ago and discontinued Record's production. So, while I'm very fond of my own Record planes, they're not readily obtainable new.

The Veritas Low-Angle Jack plane is, I'm told, a fine plane -- and it would be a very good place to start.

Sharpening. Well, that's another can of worms. :)

My instructor suggested that we get combination waterstones, such as the King combo stone (http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.096.30&dept_id=13117). I have the smaller version, but that was a mistake on my part.

For waterstones, you also need something to flatten them with, which could be a granite plate with some wet/dry sandpaper or a diamond stone (which I use), or a stone specific for flattening water stones.

Waterstones cut more quickly than oilstones. Some people prefer using the "scary sharp" method (which is basically sandpaper), but I don't.

I also have a Tormek for regrinding bevels, but mostly I use my waterstone for day-to-day sharpening.

[Maurice Metzger]

Hi Larry,

It's too bad I didn't make a film of my starting out with planes. You could have a lot of laughs and then just do exactly the opposite. Highlights include buying an English-made Stanley block plane that flew apart at the end of almost every pass when used on a shooting board and running a rabbet right through the only knot in a clear pine board. And the fun's not over yet...

I would say it's all about the sharpening. Until you can get the blade sharp there's no point in moving past your first plane. I had spent a lot of time sharpening knives before using planes, so I could at least make shavings with that lousy Stanley UK block plane. Even a mediocre plane with a really sharp blade is useful. There are a lot of ways to sharpen and a lot of info here and elsewhere about how to do it. One place to start is here:

http://www.hocktools.com/sharpen.htm

These are the basic instructions that are also printed on the wrapper for Hock after-market blades.

I agree with the recommendation to start with a high quality plane from LN or LV, so you know what a good plane is like - but the caveat there is I don't own any, so take that for what it's worth. And as others have said a low-angle block plane would be the most useful.

It's just my 2 cents, but starting out with a workbench might be a bit painful. IMHO a shooting board for the low angle block plane might be a good starting project. You can clean up the end grain of any machine made crosscuts you make.

Best of luck to you, and enjoy yourself!

Maurice

[Pam Niedermayer]

...
I know Pam suggested LV or LN maybe a model number or a store to suggest...

Well, the stores part is easy, both vendors are online. Here's the link for the LV plane: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49708&cat=1,41182,52515
And here's the LN plane: http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=62

My experience is with the LN plane, the LV version didn't exist at the time; but I've heard great things about the LV from people whose judgement I trust, so either would be an excellent choice.

Pam

[john mclane]

I had to look up fettling: The removal of sand adhering to castings by hammering, tumbling or shot blasting. Is this what you were referring to? I know we have to tune a plane and that may mean flattening the bottom, or additional sites in contact with the blade; is that what you mean?

In any case, on topic: I'm relatively new to using handplanes also and did not have a lot of money to start up with so have a stanley low angle block, a new groz bench plane and a shoulder plane. All were bought on line. I took a course on sharpening at the local Woodcraft and the instructor also went through the mechanics of tuning a plane. I went back and have tuned and sharpened all my planes. Even though all are on the cheap side I can get nice even shavings on all of them. I think the cheap ones need more frequent adjustments and a little tender care but I'm learning and when I have saved for more expensive ones I'll know the best care and use for them and can use them in more difficult situations.

[Larry Cooke]

Sharpening. Well, that's another can of worms. :)This is rather a bit of an understatement isn't it? :)

Wow, I've been knee deep into looking at the different ways to sharpen tools and I think I'm more confused now than I was before.

I'm sort of leaning towards the sandpaper method, it seems like it could be a reasonable way to get started. A peice of glass, various grits of paper and a jig to keep the blade(s) at the correct angle. I was leaning towards the Veritas Mk.II Honing Guide, Skew Jig, and Camber Rolling Assy. I figure I could use these with either waterstones or sandpaper. Or am I over doing it? (I have a tendency to overdue things sometimes...

Thanks again for the advice Deirdre. This is helping me a lot!

Larry

[Larry Cooke]

Hi Larry,

It's too bad I didn't make a film of my starting out with planes.Maurice, I'm trying my best to avoid the same things, but stay tuned...Film at 11:00 :)


I would say it's all about the sharpening. Until you can get the blade sharp there's no point in moving past your first plane.I agree completely, as I mentioned in my first post I tried an old plane that was very dull and really had no clue as to how to sharpen it. I got very frustrated and gave up. The power sander got me though that job but I know I spent a lot more time doing it with a sander than I would of with a sharp plane.

Larry

[Larry Cooke]

My experience is with the LN plane, the LV version didn't exist at the time; but I've heard great things about the LV from people whose judgement I trust, so either would be an excellent choice.Thank you for the links Pam. So, if you were to buy a new plane (didn't have one to your name) which would you choose? Of these two that is...

I'm really leaning towards the LN, it's a name I'm familiar with, at least in passing, and I noticed that they guarantee material and workmanship for life as well as offer repair and parts. I hope I'll never need that but I have a warmer feeling about the LN right now. There's only a 15% difference in price so I don't think pricing has much to do with my choice here.

Last question for tonight: I'm guessing the flavor of wood (cherry versus cocbolo) is purely esthetics, correct?

Thanks again Pam,

Larry

[Pam Niedermayer]

It's a hard choice. Add to the outstanding quality of both product lines that both vendors are truly extraordinary in terms of customer support. I also know both companys' owners (Rob Lee and Thomas Lie-Nielsen) via email correspondence over the past several years and like them a lot. With all the tools I've bought from both of them, I've never, NEVER, had a problem that wasn't resolved with courtesy, alacrity, and at no cost to me, including shipping charges to send something back. An example? A friend who's very strong broke a handle on a shovel that was a couple of years old. He broke it on a root. I contacted LV to determine if the vendor had replacement handles. LV replied that no, but they warranteed these tools for life, sent me a new shovel, supplied a label for prepaid return costs. It just doesn't get any better. I've bought fewer tools from LN since they only make woodworking tools, and in general I don't like metal bench planes, but service has been as good.

So, look them both over and simply choose the one you prefer. You will be happy. That said, I want to make your choice as difficult as possible, at least one expert windsor chairmaker used and then bought the LV LA BU Jack. He sold his LN 62 on an auction site. Also, on that site, used LN's sell for close to/more than retail (no, I really don't know why exactly, but they do). So it cost him almost nothing to have first purchased the LN.

Pam

[Alan DuBoff]

The Knight planes are very good. Also ready to use when you get them. A wooden plane adds another element to learning to use a plane, though. Most are adjusted mechanically by tapping on the blade and/or the body of the plane to adjust the iron. Those that use woodies find it easy...there seems to be a steep learning curve, however, and one that I haven't got the hang of yet. The ECE planes with mechanical adjusters are very nice however.While this is certainly true, the element is fairly small IMO, and there is something about a plane like Steve Knight makes, ergonomically. There is something about holding a warm piece of handcrafted wood in your hands, rather than a piece of steel/iron. This is something that I struggle with myself, because a wooden plane is so much more inviting to my hand.

With that said, there is also a certain gizmocity towards the veritas planes to me, and the fine adjusters, the heft of the tool and blade, and the quality are excellent on the veritas planes to me.

I have also never used a bad LN plane, and feel you just can't go wrong with a LN plane. The handles seem to becoming more machined over time, on both their planes and saws.

I mostly use a small set of vintage stanley planes as my basic user set, which include a 60 1/2 low angle block plane, 4 smoother, and 8 jointer. These have been excellent for me, but the single most time I've put into these planes is for sharpening.

With proper sharpening, any plane works wonderful. I happen to sharpen my edge tools on a lap-sharp, and by using it I can get any 'ol plane blade in a usable state in reasonable time. Many folks do use the scary-sharp method of sharpening with sand paper, and that does work fine. The one single area most people would do themself good to focus on, in regards to hand planes is the sharpening process. Figure out a system that works for you, which fits within your budget and learn how to be successful with it. Once you do that, it really doesn't matter if you select a wooden or steel/iron plane, and you can be happy with the results. Sharp = GOOD, Dull = BAD. My $0.02...

[Roy Griggs]

Larry,
Being a cheap so and so, I would recommend starting with Stanley or Miller Falls planes simply for the price. All my bench planes are of these two types and I have yet to feel the need for a BU plane from any of the new makers. If after learning the basics you feel the need for a BU bench plane you can always go that route. Tuning and sharpening are the real secrets to planes not the price tag!
I will concur on the choices listed for size and usage, a #4 or #5 for general use, a #7 or #8 for flattening large expanses of wood, a #4 1/2 or #5 1/2 for your shooting board and an appropriate block plane (low angle or high angle). Actually I would recommend both block planes; a block plane will soon become your most used tool. Once you become comfortable using one you will wonder what you ever did without one.


roy

[tod evans]

larry, i have to agree with roy and his suggestion for the older planes, in fact if you spend a little while researching then shopping you`ll find that the value of your planes will grow every year. not so with most of the new offerings....02 tod

[Larry Cooke]

I had to look up fettling:John,

I had to do the same as well. The more I'm learning about hand planes the more I realize the less I know about it. I feel like a complete novice here.


I think the cheap ones need more frequent adjustments and a little tender care but I'm learning and when I have saved for more expensive ones I'll know the best care and use for them and can use them in more difficult situations.I have nothing against using an older or lesser plane if you will, just that I really need to know more about how to tune and what to expect from them. I'm going to step back for the moment and grab some books on the subject(s) before I jump in with both feet.

Larry

[Larry Cooke]

That said, I want to make your choice as difficult as possible, at least one expert windsor chairmaker used and then bought the LV LA BU Jack. He sold his LN 62 on an auction site. Also, on that site, used LN's sell for close to/more than retail (no, I really don't know why exactly, but they do). So it cost him almost nothing to have first purchased the LN.Pam,

No need to make it any more difficult :), I'm learning more about it already and so far have learned that I really need to do a lot of homework here. I'm going to try and find a book or two on the subject of planes and see what I can figure out.

Thanks for the help thus far! I'm slowly learning bits a pieces here.

Larry

[Larry Cooke]

Once you do that, it really doesn't matter if you select a wooden or steel/iron plane, and you can be happy with the results. Sharp = GOOD, Dull = BAD. My $0.02...Alan,

So far this much has really sunk in, to be honest I'm going to order some sharpening tools and try to figure out what works best for me. I have an old Stanley plane (forget which one) that I can use to practice my sharpening skills (or lack there of) on. I know that once I figure out how to sharpen, the rest should follow.

Larry

[Larry Cooke]

Tuning and sharpening are the real secrets to planes not the price tag!I agree completely, though I must say that with my sort of luck I'll buy the worst model of plane and never know why it's not working like it should, buying a good one won't necessarily buy me perfection in work but knowing I have a good one in the first place could be a good start. With that said, I'm backing off a bit and am going to do some reading on the subject (may even take a class if there are any available here locally to me.) I'd rather know more about this than to just go off a buy some plane. I'm sure the ones I'm looking at are great, but how will I ever know or more importantly would I really appreciate them.

Thanks for the advise!

Larry

[Larry Cooke]

i have to agree with roy and his suggestion for the older planes, in fact if you spend a little while researching then shopping you`ll find that the value of your planes will grow every year. not so with most of the new offerings....02 todI'm listening! :) Thanks, I'll be spending some time learning more about these and hopefully I'll make a good choice, for now though I'm going to go backwards (at least that's my thoughts) and learn how to sharpen first. If I can't master sharpening then there's no point going further. Though, I've been able to put a decent edge on knives, I'm sure it's quite different for a plane. I know that unless it's very sharp the effort required to do any amount of work will be that much greater. So, off to learning how to sharpen.

Thanks again,

Larry

[Alan DuBoff]

Alan,

So far this much has really sunk in, to be honest I'm going to order some sharpening tools and try to figure out what works best for me. I have an old Stanley plane (forget which one) that I can use to practice my sharpening skills (or lack there of) on. I know that once I figure out how to sharpen, the rest should follow.

LarryLarry,

You might want to look into scary sharp first, it's probably the least expensive and will get edge tools very sharp. Can't go wrong with a couple decent water stones either, one of the king combo stones with 800/6000 would probably work well for you also.

As I mentioned, I have a lap-sharp, and I can get my edges sharp in reasonable time with it. Others use a Tormek, some the Veritas MkII powered sharpener, some only use a honing guide with a water stone, and yet some will sharpen completely freehand and get excellent results. Find one that works and you'll be on your way to a positive hand plane experience.

[Larry Cooke]

Can't go wrong with a couple decent water stones either, one of the king combo stones with 800/6000 would probably work well for you also.Alan,

I'm going to order a 1000/6000 king combo, a 8" 325/1200 diamond stone, and the Mk II guide. My thought's are to use the diamond stone to lap the water stone. Seems to me that this would be a fairly economical way to do it.

Larry

[Maurice Metzger]

Larry, I would highly recommend not getting the combination diamond stone. They don't come all that flat, and of course there's no way to lap them. The 325 grit also is a little slow for flattening the backs of blades.

I would recommend a Norton 220 grit diamond stone, you can get one here:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=NO-DIAM11-220&Category_Code=TBBCND

No connection to site or seller.

Maurice

[Alan DuBoff]

I'm going to order a 1000/6000 king combo, a 8" 325/1200 diamond stone, and the Mk II guide. My thought's are to use the diamond stone to lap the water stone. Seems to me that this would be a fairly economical way to do it.I would suggest just getting the Mk II guide, and start off with scary sharp, which is essentially putting sand paper on a flat surface to lap on.

Make sure you get the proper paper (aluminum oxide, as I recall). Google for scary sharp and you'll get massive hits.

Of course you can't go wrong with stones, but you might want seperates in the future. The king combo works. If I was going to use water stones for all of my sharpening, I would want seperates, because I would want all the stones laid out next to each other so I could move through the various stones easily.

Nice to know how to use scary sharp as you can do it easily in a pinch.

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

I have that same King 1000/6000 stone, like it a lot. I use a 600 grit diamond stone for flattening it.

I don't find flipping the stone to be too odious a chore, though. :)

[Larry Cooke]

Larry, I would highly recommend not getting the combination diamond stone.Maurice,

Okay, advice taken. I hadn't thought about the flatness of diamond stone. I agree, 220 will get'er done quicker too.

Larry

[Larry Cooke]

I would suggest just getting the Mk II guide, and start off with scary sharp, which is essentially putting sand paper on a flat surface to lap on.Alan,

I was real close to doing just that, but it seems to me that after a while I'm going to go through more sandpaper than stones. Initially it's cheaper but what about the long haul? I know, if I don't find I like this then I'm out less money but I don't think that's going to be the case. I'm pretty hard headed when it comes to doing things. :) Besides, I can always use the stones to sharpen my kitchen knives (boy do they need it too!)


Nice to know how to use scary sharp as you can do it easily in a pinch.Agreed, it certainly won't be too expensive to get into. I'll play with this too.

Thanks,

Larry

[Alan DuBoff]

Alan,

I was real close to doing just that, but it seems to me that after a while I'm going to go through more sandpaper than stones. Initially it's cheaper but what about the long haul? I know, if I don't find I like this then I'm out less money but I don't think that's going to be the case. I'm pretty hard headed when it comes to doing things. :) Besides, I can always use the stones to sharpen my kitchen knives (boy do they need it too!)

Agreed, it certainly won't be too expensive to get into. I'll play with this too.

Thanks,

LarryLarry, my reccomendations towards scary sharp are because I found for myself I could get better results using it than I could with stones originally. It was less messy also, and really doesn't cost much other than some paper. You really don't use that much of it.

Stones are good, don't get me wrong, and I do have one of the king combo stones, I just think it's easier for folks to get good results using scary sharp, and a sharp edge is the primary thing you need for a good working tool. Stones can bring good results also, but speaking for myself, I had a slightly higher learning curve using them.

As long as you get the guide, you can use it for scary sharp or on a stone. You shouldn't feel the need to spend a lot of $$$s for sharpening, when you can do it inexpensively with scary sharp. That will get you over the hurdle of being able to have a sharp edge, and then you can get comfortable with hand planes and/or other edge tools.

If you have the $$$s and desire, I reccomend the lap-sharp system, it is essentially a motorized scary sharp system.;-)