Casement windows---again

[Denise Ohio]

Okay, I'm going to ask for help again on this. Please, please, please don't tell me to go buy Pella windows. That's three pleases in a row.

I want to build casement windows. I can get CVG KD cedar for $1.53 a linear foot or $1.50 bf if I get green cedar. I can get CVG fir (old-growth, no less) even cheaper. I live in the Pacific Northwest, so there's a lot of fine material around. Plus, our house has 4' eaves to further protect the windows and trim from getting beaten up by rain.

I can get thermopane glazing at wholesale as well since I'm swapping computer skills with a pal who does custom glazing and will get the sizes we need at a good price.

What I need are drawings (and hints) for building casement windows using friction (aka scissor) hinges. The style is closer to Shaker than rococco---nothing fussy, no muntins or anything like that.

Assistance is much appreciated, but again, please don't tell me to go buy windows. That's please #4.

Thanks in advance. And if I screw it all up, I blame no one but my own stupid self.

[Jim Andrew]

My experiences building windows have not been great. One thing I know
that Pella does is treat their wood with preservative. So I would do that.
Jim

[Steve Ash]

Okay, I'm going to ask for help again on this. Please, please, please don't tell me to go buy Pella windows.

Nope.....go buy Andersens's...been using them for 16 years and no problems so far! YMMV!:D

[Per Swenson]

Hi,

Sounds like fun.

Do you have a shaper?

Then check out various styles of sash cutters

from Amana, freeborne etc.

You could check here for hardware. http://www.rejuvenation.com/catalog/window.html

Truth be told, unlike doors, windows are a pain.

Pardon the pun.

Really, my house, I would buy em.

Per

[Vaughn McMillan]

No advice on the window building, but another possible source for hardware is Crown City Hardware in Pasadena. They are at http://www.crowncityhardware.com. (No affiliation, yada yada. I've been to their store once and their selection was impressive.)

Has anyone suggested buying the windows instead? [Ducks and runs for cover] ;)

- Vaughn

[Rob Russell]

We put an addition on our house and did lots of windows. If you look at this thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16008) you can see a couple pics of the main room and windows.

To give you some dimensions, the door in the second picture is an 8' door. The interior soffets are 9' high. All windows are operable - the small top/bottom ones are awning and the large ones are casements.

We used Eagle windows. Instead of the scissor style you're thinking of, we went with an upgraded piano hinge style for the casements. I'm glad that we did for several reasons. Because of the piano hinge, the window opens up and gets out of your field of view. Some of them open up back to back. I think it gives a much nicer view from inside the room than we'd have with the normal scissor hinge. Another reason we went with the piano hinges is that they are much smoother to operate than the scissor hinge. Lastly, I suspect you'll have less trouble figuring out how to mount the piano hinge style than the scissor style.

Our eaves are 2' deep. The awning windows are 18" tall and that seems to be a nice fit. 4' eaves seem pretty deep - how will that be framed? Our outside eaves are purely decorative. The walls are tall enough so the roof joists sit on top of the wall and give us the eave depth we wanted. To do the same thing with a 4' eave, you're either building a flatter roof (our's is a 3/12 pitch, minimum pitch I could go before I had to go to a membrane type roof) or using different framing.

Back to the windows. Eagle gets their hardware from Truth. Truth makes different grades of hardware for different manufaturers. I wouldn't go with anything but their best grade of powder coated stuff. Here's the Truth website (http://www.truth.com).

Good luck on your project. With all the stuff I have on my list of things to do, building windows won't even have made to the "think about it stage"!

Rob

[Denise Ohio]

We used Eagle windows. Instead of the scissor style you're thinking of, we went with an upgraded piano hinge style for the casements.

Well, I've also been looking at center hinges/knife hinges, but I'll check the piano hinge, too---thanks.

What I like about the center hinge is it's low profile. But a piano hinge is also low profile and it has the benefit of strength and ease of install, unlike the knife hinge.

Just watch---I'l go in a completely different direction and choose some flashy hardware completely opposite of what I'm looking at now.

Geez. Well, the benefit of building a house on our schedule, not the bank's.



Our eaves are 2' deep. The awning windows are 18" tall and that seems to be a nice fit. 4' eaves seem pretty deep - how will that be framed? Our outside eaves are purely decorative. The walls are tall enough so the roof joists sit on top of the wall and give us the eave depth we wanted. To do the same thing with a 4' eave, you're either building a flatter roof (our's is a 3/12 pitch, minimum pitch I could go before I had to go to a membrane type roof) or using different framing.

Roof is SIP (10", R=50, steel roofing, fir decking) and cantilevers past the 9' wall. 3:12 pitch on lower roof, 6:12 on the roof for the clerestory. At 48-degrees lat, we can get plenty of winter sun, even early spring sun since the house is 21-degrees from magnetic north to true north. But we can also avoid the summer sun pouring into the living spaces, which can get pretty toasty even up here in the Pacific Northwest.

I modeled the house in 3d for maximum passive solar and to give us a porch all the way around the house. It's nice to be able to walk around without getting rained on.

The engineers thought this design would work nicely. If there is an issue, we'll use exterior posts. The deep eave gives the house a distinctive profile that remains clean and simple. A shorter eave would make the profile look out-of-balance as we have a 40'x8'x4' clerestory running at the ridge of the hipped roof to bring light into the middle of the house.

Plus, I liked it. Sort of Frank Lloyd Wright-y without getting too fussy.


Back to the windows. Eagle gets their hardware from Truth. Truth makes different grades of hardware for different manufaturers. I wouldn't go with anything but their best grade of powder coated stuff. Here's the Truth website (http://www.truth.com).

Excellent. Thanks for this. I bought a knife hinge from L-V with which to build my prototype, so I'll get a powder-coated piano hinge and see how that works out.

I have my sections for the sash and frame already for prototyping now.

Thanks for the help, all.

[tod evans]

denise, since you`re dead set on building `em rob`s given you a good source for hardware. when i build large casements or crankouts i laminate the stock out of 1/4" layers before machining. be sure to use waterproof glue if you do this, if you choose to use "solid" stock of either fir or cedar especially stuff not kiln dried be prepared for warping!. you`ll need cutters to cope the sticking pattern you choose deap into the wood as the tennon must pass through the style. the coping can be accomplished with chisels and patience for only a few sashes, in fact this is how i cope curved ones. otherwise you`ll need to contact sombody like cg schmidt for sash tooling. in your previous thread i believe you mentioned trying to build these units with a router to spin the cutters? if this is still your intention research your tooling options well before you proceed as i haven`t found any router cutters i`m comfortable using for sash frame construction as they all seem to rely on stub tennons. once you`ve found what you feel is acceptable tooling and have figured out how to control your stock please get back with a link to the tooling and i`ll see if i can offer any usefull advice...02 tod

[Rob Russell]

Roof is SIP (10", R=50, steel roofing, fir decking) and cantilevers past the 9' wall ...


OK - ya got me. What does SIP stand for?


I bought a knife hinge from L-V with which to build my prototype, so I'll get a powder-coated piano hinge and see how that works out.

The piano hinges aren't powder coated, they're stainless steel. I don't know if they get those from Truth or not. They also use stainless steel screws for mounting those hinges (actually - for mounting all the hardware).

[tod evans]

[quote=Rob Russell]OK - ya got me. What does SIP stand for?


quote]

construction lingo for structually insulated panel....02 tod

[Denise Ohio]

The piano hinges aren't powder coated, they're stainless steel. I don't know if they get those from Truth or not. They also use stainless steel screws for mounting those hinges (actually - for mounting all the hardware).

Yep, I gathered that. I also found a piano hinge manufacturer a little closer to home, so I may be able to scan a sample for my prototype.

Since the kind of windows we're doing a fairly common in Europe and the U.K., there's a chance I'll look for latches and other snazzy stuff there. I've got a pal who works for the U.N. in the Hague and another living in the middle of England, both of whom would be happy to go looking. And buying as long as it isn't their money their spending.

My GF also has a nephew who owns three of those big-ass water-jet cutting machines that can cut huge honking sheets of steel, so maybe I'll ask him about custom manufacturing latches (or at least the handles) for us. And my GFs dad is a machinist with a machine shop---he's 84 and still working on diesel engines. Amazing fella and he offered me a job way back when I showed him a I could use a micrometer.

Anyway, we may be able to get him to manufacturer some bits for us as long as I give him a proper drawing. Hello AutoCAD.

Those big-ass water jet machines are seriously cool, though. Last halloween Dan decided to use one to carve their pumpkins with and blew up the pumpkin. I would totally be blowing up produce, too, if I had one of them there machines.

Now that's a good use of technology.