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Jack Hogoboom
05-31-2006, 2:20 AM
My wife and I are considering buying a new house recently built in our town. It is about 500 feet down slope from a large Verizon cell phone tower disguised as a clock tower. The house is approximately 100-150 feet below the top of the tower, where I assume most of the electronic systems are.

Two questions:

1. Does anyone have any thoughts about the safety of being this close to a cell tower?

2. Is there any simple way, using readily available equipment, to test the electromagnetic radiation in the house?

Any thoughts would be gladly welcomed. The house is really great, but the tower gives us a little pause.

Thanks,

Jack

Joe Pelonio
05-31-2006, 7:50 AM
In our area there's a lot of controversy over this, with the city trying to cooperate with the cell carriers but the residents upset. From what has been reported the radiation travels horizontally with some downward scatter. The long term effects of constant exposure to low levels of
this are unknown, because the technology has not been around that
long. The biggest complaint here is a constant hum from the cell tower base, whatever equipment is in there is noisy.

We once passed on a really nice house that was 75' from a high voltage power line, just based on potential future re-sale problems. We figured that if we were hesitant, others would be too when we sold it, and if more dangers became known we could be stuck with it.

I'd agree that an EMF test should be done, but where do you find someone to do it? Your local ghost hunters have the equipment but probably wouldn't be interested. Maybe an electrical engineering firm?

Here's a place that sells a wide variety of meters:

http://www.lessemf.com/gauss.html

tod evans
05-31-2006, 8:03 AM
jack, if it where me i`d look elsewhere. no good scientific reason but common sence says that when you go to sell it won`t be a plus being under a cell tower, not to mention whatever problems it may cause with your home electronics..02 tod

Ken Fitzgerald
05-31-2006, 8:48 AM
If I were in your shoes...........I'd pass for all the reasons above ............However..........I can go onto my carport.....and see my local cell phone tower some 2 blocks away. It wasn't there when I bought this place 24 years ago. The city sure has been accomodating!:mad:

Rob Bourgeois
05-31-2006, 9:24 AM
Get a RF meter from Radio shack..

I bet you get Rf from your TV, cordelss phone, wireless internet connection and computer where you are living now than there with the cell tower.

Mike Evertsen
05-31-2006, 9:44 AM
there a cell tower to the east one to the west and one on the south side of me just use tin foil hats you'll be alright:rolleyes:

skip coyne
05-31-2006, 9:59 AM
I wouldnt chose to be close to one . Just curios is the place cheaper becouse of it ?

Jack Hogoboom
05-31-2006, 10:15 AM
Guys,

Thanks for all of the replies. I will stop and pick up an RF meter today. If someone could tell me what an acceptable level is, that would really help.

The house is a "steal" because of the location, plus the tower isn't really that close to the house and it is up on a hill above the house. The tower has been disguised as a clock tower, so it's not really an eyesore. Lots of people are having the same visceral reaction as some of you, which is why it is so cheap. But everything I read indicates it's not a health hazard. It is so high up, it's hard to believe anything reaches the house.

Keep the comments coming.

Thanks,

Jack

Art Mulder
05-31-2006, 10:32 AM
We once passed on a really nice house that was 75' from a high voltage power line, just based on potential future re-sale problems. We figured that if we were hesitant, others would be too when we sold it, and if more dangers became known we could be stuck with it.

In the end, you need to be able to sleep at night with the decision you made. That applies to many, many things in life, from investing, to home purchase, to college choices, and so on.

But just to share an opposite experience... Our friends in MI have, for almost 17 years now, owned a house that is right next to a high voltage power line corridor. One very large positive for them is that they have no neighbour on that side. And, since the lot is unfenced, they basically got a much larger yard for free, which was a bonus when their kids were growing up. The trampoline and play structure were all placed on the "bonus" land. Power company didn't care. The negative, is that in the hot/humid summer the lines hum. They're not looking to sell, so resale isn't (yet) an issue for them.

Carl Eyman
05-31-2006, 10:33 AM
Jack: You might look up your local ham radio club and talk to them. They might have a member who has rf detection equipment and knows how to use it. I certainly do not claim to be an expert on this subject, but have always thought the perceived danger from electronic radiation was more in the mind of the "beholder" than in reality. For example, the strength of a radiated signal varies with the third power of the distance from the source. Based on that fact you can see the radiation from your cell phone on transmit just inches away from your brain can be much stronger than the strength of a signal from the tower thousands of feet away. This even though the power of the phone's signal is milliwatts and that of the tower Kilowatts. Yet we use the phone without a second thought and go to town meetings to raise hell about the tower. Humans - can't figure them out!

Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan
05-31-2006, 10:34 AM
Well, the local cell guys here want to put on on my rooftop, where I store the wood right now.

They will pay me $10,000 a year to keep it there, minimum for 10 years :eek:

Can you see why we are very seriously considering it?

We have asked these questions, and they have provided us with about 400 pages of research from here in Japan, and from Europe and the US, all saying it is harmless. I'd scan it all and post it here, but it is in Japanese :rolleyes:

Their bigger concern, and ours, is that the unit weighs 5000 Kg (11,000 lbs).

We have our building architects and an independent company looking at the building's design and blueprints to decide if the building can handle the weight.

Am I nuts?

(10,000 a year x 10 years = $1,000,000) that will basically pay most of my mortgage.

Cheers!

Carl Eyman
05-31-2006, 10:37 AM
OH! A PS

If you get a meter, how will you know how much radiation is from the cell phone tower and how much from the TV Statio, Radio Station, The CBer with an illegal amplifier that is driving by, or the neighbor's microwave that is a little leaky?

Andy Fox
05-31-2006, 10:46 AM
When you sell the property in the future, will you be able to sell it fast enough that you aren't trapped for years waiting for another buyer who's willing to take the same risk.

Logic says that that the risk doesn't seem all that bad. Unless maybe some new study comes out next year which shows a clear link between cell phone towers and cancer. Then you might as well have swampland.

But people don't buy houses based on logic. All that's needed to turn a buyer away is a little fear, uncertainty, or doubt.

Here's what seems to be a decent summary of the scientific findings:
http://vvv.dph.state.ct.us/Publications/BCH/EEOH/cell_phones.pdf

If it's really a steal, I might consider buying it though.

Rob Bourgeois
05-31-2006, 10:48 AM
The meter will have accpetable limits in it instructions or thr meter itself. At least the ones I have used when I was doing microwave digestions of sediments and plant material at my lab tech job in school.

Its fun to watch it go offscale when you put it next to a old cordless phone. :) I am betting you wont find any above the safe limit( or any at all above back ground) unless you stick it near the electric meter or a point source like a cell/cordelss phone.

Much like bird flu...much ado about reallly nothing.

Joe Pelonio
05-31-2006, 10:57 AM
Stu,

That's a lot of money. I make "land use" signs for an engineer that does towers for the cell carriers, and they often pay people to put them on their property. Where they have problems is putting them on city owner right-of-ways that are close to homes so the people get nothing for it.

Just for fun I did some research. Basically it depends on who you listen to, some say it's not an issue others say it is. Here's a quote from one:

"The leading researcher in this field, Henry Lai, PhD, of the University of Washington in Seattle, has published a number of studies indicating that radiation emitted by cell phones may pose a health hazard. However, in a presentation one year ago he concluded that the health risks, if any, due to exposure to radiofrequency radiation from cell towers are not clear. One question yet to be answered is whether<!-- Begin ad --> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=10 align=right bgColor=#ffffff border=0 valign="bottom" hspace="10"><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- End ad -->the impact of exposure to low-intensity RFR from cell towers is cumulative. Dr. Lai also points out that current US guidelines for RFR exposure are not up-to-date and are based on research data only up to 1985. (For the record, Dr. Lai has said he wouldn't live next to a cell tower.)
Given the lack of research in this area, it’s impossible to reach any objective conclusion at this time on whether or not exposure to radiofrequency radiation from cell towers presents a health hazard and, if so, what the risks might be. To keep up with the debate on this issue and emerging research in the field, I suggest that you visit the website of the EMR Network, Citizens and Professionals for the Responsible Use of Electromagnetic Radiation (EMR), at www.emrnetwork.org. This group is lobbying for more research as well as tracking EMR issues worldwide."


<TABLE style="HEIGHT: 54px" width=518 align=center><TBODY><TR><TD>Also found this interesting, a computer generated graphic showing the RF radiation from a single cellular antenna that is mounted on the side of a concrete block building. The antenna is supposed to send the radiation from the front of the antenna (to the left). However, this shows RF energy is also coming off of the back of the antenna and penetrating through the block wall into the building.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Lee DeRaud
05-31-2006, 10:58 AM
(10,000 a year x 10 years = $1,000,000)Uh, I think your sliderule needs calibrating. :cool:

Craig Coney
05-31-2006, 11:49 AM
I don't consider myself an expert on exposure, but have been to training and am aware of the effects of exposure to RF. I would not trust a meter from Radio Shack, as it is most likely not calibrated. There is information of EME compliance on the FCC website. You should use this to become informed and make an educated decision, not an emotional decision. Also, you didn't say if the site was on the property you are purchasing. At 500 feet horizontal separation and 150 ft vertical separation, you may be within the acceptable limits for continuous exposure.

I would recommend hiring an RF compliace consultant which will take readings of the residence and property, and can tell you if the readings are within known acceptable levels for continuous exposure. Take the readings during peak hours of traffic on the carrier, usually rush hour, and early evening. Keep in mind, that although the residence may be under the 'umbrella' of peak emissions, that the carrier could change antennas at any time to change their coverage patterns, which would likely change any tests you do prior to purchasing the house. Additional carriers could also co-locate on the site in the future and also increase any exposure levels above what is currently experienced. At that distance, you would probably have to have an antenna or microwave dish pointed directly at your house to feel any affects.

Personally, I would not have a house close to a site, especially with children. I have felt RF through my bones working on towers and rooftops, and have worked on some of the hottest RF sites in the nation. RF headaches are not any fun, neither is the nausea that can occur from exposure, so I am likely more aware of when I am subjected to the effects of RF. In the day, we just worked until we were done. Things changed in the late 90's and now we wear exposure meters and have RF suits for protection and guidelines that we must follow for safety. Everyone has a different tolerance level. just my $.02.

Bob Weisner
05-31-2006, 12:20 PM
What is the height of the tower? In my Town, the regulation states that the fall-zone for a Tower must be 1 1/2 times the height of the tower. I was told that most , if not all of the radiation from the cell phone towers, comes from the very top of the tower.

Jamie Buxton
05-31-2006, 12:31 PM
Do you use a cell-phone? It has a transmitter in it which is strong enough to reach a cell-phone tower, and that's roughly as strong as the one in the tower which is sending to you. Okay, there are quite a few transmitters on the tower, and only one in your phone. However, you have the one in your phone clamped tightly to your head. If electromagnetic exposure is dangerous, that's what would be getting you, not a tower which is hundreds of yards away.

Ken Garlock
05-31-2006, 12:33 PM
Really Not A Problem.

The cell phone transmitter at the tower works with your cell phone to use just enough RF power to maintain your connection. If the any one antenna/transmitter used excessive power, it would block out all the other users on that tower. Actual RF is most likely less than 10 watts per antenna, or less. Any one tower covers a small area and the moving user is automatically switched from one tower to another as he moves/drives around town.

I have been around RF for much of my life, as much as a couple thousand watts intermittently, and I am doing just fine so far.

The concern several years ago was about brain cancer due to cell phone RF. There are standards that exist now and most, if not all, manufacturers exceed those standards in their new equipment. There was also a concern about living near a high voltage substation. Those fears have been discounted by both time and science.

IMO, you will get more RF from your microwave oven than from a cell phone tower located hundreds of yards away. The strength of the RF decreases by the square of the distance from the source.

Lee DeRaud
05-31-2006, 12:52 PM
I have felt RF through my bones working on towers and rooftops, and have worked on some of the hottest RF sites in the nation. RF headaches are not any fun, neither is the nausea that can occur from exposure, so I am likely more aware of when I am subjected to the effects of RF.That sounds more like what you get working around radar antennas or line-of-sight microwave relays: high-intensity, highly-directional radiation.

Doug Jones from Oregon
05-31-2006, 1:31 PM
Stu...I'm surprised that all you can get over there is 1k a month.

We have had a cell tower on the property now for about 9 years and get a little more than that with a nice increase anticipated on the next lease renewel.

We just signed up a 10 year lease with another company for even more. So, now we have two companies mounted on top of our water tower.

There is one "vault" below the tower houseing the original companies equip, and the air conditioner does make noise, but it is not bad.

The newest company has no vault, there equipment is exposed to the elements, but no noise since no air conditioner.

They have been great tenants, pay on time and never want the walls painted or the carpets replaced.

Doug

Jim O'Dell
05-31-2006, 2:48 PM
snip
They have been great tenants, pay on time and never want the walls painted or the carpets replaced.
Doug

but do they mow the grass??? :D Jim.

Norman Hitt
05-31-2006, 3:15 PM
Well, the local cell guys here want to put on on my rooftop, where I store the wood right now.

They will pay me $10,000 a year to keep it there, minimum for 10 years :eek:

Can you see why we are very seriously considering it?

Am I nuts?

(10,000 a year x 10 years = $1,000,000) that will basically pay most of my mortgage.

Cheers!

Hey Stu, do they do Multiplication differently over there in Japan?:confused:

I was just wondering, 'cause over here in Texas, we kinda figure $10,000 x 10 years would only = $100,000.:confused: (maybe it's this kind of teaching/learning discrepancy that's the reason I'm not too sharp on this computer thing).:D

skip coyne
05-31-2006, 3:22 PM
taking the RF out of it for a moment just the response here would convince me that its probably not a good investment .

the percption of potenial danger will serisly limit your resale base and thus value .

Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan
05-31-2006, 3:22 PM
OK, Ok, I'll admit, I made a mistake on the math, that should have been 100,000. :o

But I'm converting from yen to dollars, and they count differently over here, units of 10,000.

I was giving an approximate number.

I think that now the negotiations are in swing, the first offer was 150,000 yen a month, that is 1,800,000 a year or 18,000,000 yen. (divided by 110 to get US$ is $163,636) over ten years, but like I said, that is just the first offer.

I want to make a 5 year contract, with a clause that if we do not renew the lease in 5 years, they have to remove the gear. We are on a hill and we face downtown Tokyo, also we are on a main road, with a new main road to come in close to us in a few years time.

There are other taller building around us, but they are all condos, and getting every single owner to all agree is like herding cats, they don't even try, thus we are in the drivers seat.

The games are a foot.

Cheers!

Bob Weisner
05-31-2006, 3:43 PM
How tall is the tower?

Jim Becker
05-31-2006, 4:54 PM
I'd be a lot less concerned about a cell site than high-tension electrical wires...the transmitters are not all that strong on cell sites. (As an aside, I happen to know an SMC member with a cell site literally on top of his shop...lucky guy. Gets income AND a great signal!)

Kirk (KC) Constable
06-01-2006, 10:49 AM
$100K is getting close to being 'real' money. At least it would be here.

Someone has contracted with the neighbor lady to put a tower in her back pasture (big place). It's been a handful of years now, and no tower yet...but I understand the checks keep coming. I hope they ask ME. They can put it in the front yard for all I care.

KC

Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan
06-01-2006, 10:57 AM
OK, I just have to laugh, tomorrow at noon, a second company is coming to look at our roof top, as they also want to put an antenna on the roof, heck, maybe we can afford that Vicmarc VL300 now :rolleyes: :D

Cheers!

Doyle Alley
06-01-2006, 11:55 AM
Stu, there may be one thing else to consider. Some of the people here in Florida that thought they signed lucrative deals are now crying foul. It seems that some county property appraisers have decided that having commercial cell phone towers on the property raises the property value (and thus the taxes). I don't know if they have the equivalent of property taxes over there, but it is something to consider.

Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan
06-01-2006, 2:18 PM
Doyle, that is a good point, did not think of it, I'll check with the guys and bring that up.

Cheers!