Another Wiring Question

[Gerry Bannan]

FOA, THX 4 YR HLP CHSG a TS.:D (I'm a newbie, I hope I got those acronyms right.)

I have been trolling through the posts here on SMC and found a lot of great comments that helped me finally decide which TS to buy. So, thanks everybody for your help. I ended up ordering a BW10LTS that will, hopefully, be delivered soon.

While I am waiting I want to install new wiring for the saw so it will have its own dedicated breaker, line and recepticle. Not a big deal, until I kept hearing different advice on the subject. So, I thought I'd ask the experts. (Especially, those experts with the same or similar saw running - properly - in their shops.) I have three main concerns: 1) not to damage the new toy/tool, 2) not to electrocute myself or others, 3) not to burn down the house. Any one of which would get me in serious trouble with the LOML.

My shop is in my basement so I have normal household service (120/240 volt, 150 AMP). I am not squeamish about adding a breaker, I have done it before, I just want to make sure I am using the right one.

The saw is 3hp, Single Phase, 230 volt.

I am looking for advice on these 3 things:
1) Circuit Breaker:
What Amperage? Is 20A enough or do I need 30A?
Can this be done with a single pole breaker?

2) Cable:
What gauge? I can use 12 AWG on 20A, but I would need to use 10 AWG on 30A.
I am confused about the term single phase. I am thinking that the motor will have two hot leads and a ground with no neutral. Is this right? If so, I can use a 12-2 rather than a 12-3 cable and just mark the white as hot. Right?

3) Recepticle. What outlet have people used with saws like this? I was considering a twist-lock. Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

[Jeff Horton]

1) Circuit Breaker:
What Amperage? Is 20A enough or do I need 30A?
Can this be done with a single pole breaker?
Depends on how many amps the motor draws. You left that info out.


2) Cable:
What gauge? I can use 12 AWG on 20A, but I would need to use 10 AWG on 30A.
I am confused about the term single phase. I am thinking that the motor will have two hot leads and a ground with no neutral. Is this right? If so, I can use a 12-2 rather than a 12-3 cable and just mark the white as hot. Right?
12 ga is up to 20 amps. 10 ga. is for up to 30 amps.

3 phase would have 3 hot wires. Very very few homes have 3 phase service or would ever need it. It's mostly industrial. But yes you can use 12-2 or 10-2 for 220 volt in most cases and your saw is mostly one of those cases.


3) Recepticle. What outlet have people used with saws like this? I was considering a twist-lock. Any recommendations?
Personal preference as long as it is rated for the load you saw pulls.

[Steven Wilson]

The saw is 3hp, Single Phase, 230 volt.

I am looking for advice on these 3 things:
1) Circuit Breaker:
What Amperage? Is 20A enough or do I need 30A?
Can this be done with a single pole breaker?

2) Cable:
What gauge? I can use 12 AWG on 20A, but I would need to use 10 AWG on 30A.
I am confused about the term single phase. I am thinking that the motor will have two hot leads and a ground with no neutral. Is this right? If so, I can use a 12-2 rather than a 12-3 cable and just mark the white as hot. Right?

3) Recepticle. What outlet have people used with saws like this? I was considering a twist-lock. Any recommendations?


1) When you get the saw look at the Full Load Amperage rating of the saw (FLA), that will tell you if you need a 20A or 30A circuit. 20A will probably do.

2) 12AWG for 20A, 10AWG for 30A. You have single phase, don't worry about three phase. Yep, 2 hots and ground. Yes you can use 12-2 with ground and mark the white as hot. Better yet, install conduit and then pull wire; that way you can use red and black wire for hots, green for ground - no confusion.

3) Twist lock is pricey but good. I also make up my own extension cords using SJOOW cable with twist lock plugs and recepticles.


Instead of installing a breaker in you main, wire in a subpanel (say 50A) and then use that for wiring in 220V shop tools; they're like rabbits and tend to multiply ;) I find that running conduit is a bit easier for shop tools, easier to rewire if/when you need to.

Oh yes, make sure you pull the appropriate permits, get to know your electrical inspector (they may have early morning Q&A time - ask questions, go over your plan), and follow the code inforce in your area.

[Spence DePauw]

Personally, I'd use 10ga wire, even if you go with a 20A breaker for the current tool. Then, if you ever want to go bigger, just change the breaker, and possibly the socket/plug. I did this throughout my shop, and it has saved a lot of work as new or bigger tools are added. Actually, a lot of my 110V outlets are done this way, one outlet per breaker with 10 ga. Then when I add a 220 tool, I can just change the breaker and outlet and be good to go.

Spence

[Kent Fitzgerald]

Can this be done with a single pole breaker?

You need a double-pole breaker to get 240V.

[tod evans]

welcome gerry! you`ll need a double pole breaker for 220 service, i make it a habbit to run 10ga minimum to any stationary tool. something you don`t mention is whether or not you plan on moving the saw? if you`re going to drop it and leave it i`d hardwire it, no plug or recep. to mess with. if you plan on cruising with it then a twistlock is a good option..02 tod

[John Miliunas]

First off, Gerry, welcome to the Creek!!! :) Hope you enjoy your stay and share some of your own experiences, as well! :)

With the intro over, I'd like to personally congratulate you on picking a most beautiful and well-built TS!!! (Can you tell I own a BW10LTS???:rolleyes: ) :D Anyhow, dual pole, 20 amp breaker is fine. I agree that going with 10 ga. is playing it a bit safer. "Twist-Locks" on most all of my 220v machines. Heck, even most of the ones which never get a lot of plug in/out cycles have them! Initially more $$$ but, worth it in the long run! :) Enjoy your new saw and don't forget to post pics when you take delivery and have it setup!!! :) :cool:

[Rob Russell]

#10 wire may be a way to "play it safe" in terms of future upgrades or helping reduce voltage drop on long runs, but there are things to consider with #10.

#10 is stiff and abear to work with.
You have a minimum bending radius to work with and if you're jamming the conductors into a small box, you're likely overbending the conductors.
You'd need to ensure that the cable clamps are rated for #10. If you're using standard plastic boxes with the builtin plastic lever-style clamp, you'd want to check to make sure those boxes/clamps are rated by the manufacturer for #10.
Not all receptacles are rated for #10 wire on their teminals. You'd need to ensure that you're using appropriate terminal gear if you run #10.Rob
Addy protocol: unlicensed, homeowner electrician

[Gerry Bannan]

Thanks for all your responses. I was especially impressed with how quickly the replies came in...don't you people have jobs?:D

I was hoping to hear from John Miliunas, since it was his enthusiastic (and somewhat subliminal) endorsements of the BW that really tipped my decision meter toward Wilke. I figured, if he's got the same saw, I'll just wire the way he did.

Anyway, thanks again. I will post pics when I get the saw. And, when I figure out how to post pics.

[Von Bickley]

Gerry,

I would run #12 wire on a double 20 amp breaker.


ps: I was a certified electrician for over 30 years.... #10 is over-kill.