Tough Finish for Dining Table

[Hans Braul]

I am making a dining table of cherry and would like to bring out the rich, warm grain that I love in cherry. I have had good results using oil/wax but for this table, to be used daily, I want something that will stand up to frequent cleaning. Suggestions?

Thanks
Hans

[Steve Schoene]

I would use a traditional resin varnish such as Behlen's Rockhard. It has nearly all the protective properties of polyurethane varnish, but is a bit clearer so you don't get the kind of plasticky look you can get when you build poly to a thickness to be protective.

The Behlen's won't hold up quite so well under the heavy foot traffic as ...

Oops, you have a table not a floor.

[Hans Braul]

Can I first apply tung oil to bring out the grain, then top with varnish?

[John Poole]

Why not just several coats of Tung oil? I tried an experiment on mahogany countertops using about 3-4 coats of Tung oil and was amazed how well it help up to the abuse a kitchen counter can receive.

[Carl Eyman]

I, too, recommend the Behlen's Rock Hard. It rubs out beautifully using Abralon discs with your ROS. I did the sevretary I jusr finished that way and was most pleased. However, if you go that way read the post of about a month ago about bar top finishes. (if you can't find it, get back to me and I'll look). Whoever wrote it knew what he was talking about. Since you're not doing a bar top, you won't have to go to the extremes he did, but one should read it before rubbing out Behlen's Rock Hard.

[Carl Eyman]

Here, I thinks this will help
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...meless+festool
Well, that didn't work, but it was a post by Per Swenson. A PM to him might do the trick.

[Steve Schoene]

You will notice very little difference compared to using the Behlen's, especially if you thin the first coat.

Personally, I would use BLO as grain enhancer instead of Tung. It gives a bit greater effect on cherry, and more importantly is a more reliable drying oil. Tung oil, (I assume we are talking about 100% or Pure Tung Oil) can occasionally create a problem if overcoated too quickly. You only need one light application of the oil, with all excess vigorously rubbed off before it dries to achieve the full impact of the oil on the grain.

Tung oil by itself gives a pretty minimal amount of protection and only gives a very soft gloss after half a dozen coats. Many tung oil "finishes" are just thinned down varnishes. For some, even that varnish didn't begin with any or much tung as an ingredient.

[Todd Burch]

Hans, let's put this in perspective. If this is a table for your home, how much out of the ordinary abuse will it really get? I eat on my table daily, maybe 2 or three meals, plus, since it's right by the back door, it's a catch-all for mail, keys, cell phones, sun glasses, tools that haven't make it back to the shop, yada, yada, yada. The table was purchased in 1988. After 18 years of service, while the finish has yellowed (clear over hard maple), the finish is just fine. I'm pretty sure it's a precatalyzed laquer.

Unless you will be scrubbing your tabletop with an abrasive cleaner (like Comet) or using an abrasive pad (like a scothbrite or steel wool), just about any finish you put in it, that is durable to being cleaned with mild soap and water, will hold up just fine.

It's not a floor. It's not a commerical BAR countertop, it's not an industrial surface, so you don't need an industrial finish.

The really tough finishes out there are designed to be tough - not good looking. For a cherry table, in which you want to bring out the wood you love, go for a beautiful finish, not one that looks like you melted a coat of plastic over it.

If it were mine, I would use precat lacquer over oil.

Todd

[Hans Braul]

Thanks for the great responses (all over the map, but hey, if I wanted unanimous, I'd ask myself!). Not up on some of the lingo, so I assume BLO is linseed oil? And "precat lacquer" is.....??

Many thanks again
Hans

[Jerry Olexa]

I'll go back to my favorite method w Cherry: BLO to pop the grain, followed by Garnet shellac (adds depth, more color) and top with a varnish such as P&L38 or WaterLox. Would avoid poly.

[Rodney ORourke]

Hello Hans -

I see you have plenty of advice. So going in a different direction ....

Resistance to rubbing according to Bob Flexner (Bob's credentials are below) is more important on a dining room table than scratching which is the reason many professional use lacquer - also color control and correction is easier - drys fast so reduces the potential for dust damage - and its easy to repair. Bob's book has been updated fairly recently and does a great job of helping people understand why they are so confused about what it takes to finish a product.

Most tung oil for example is not really just tung oil (real tung oil takes a very long time to dry). Most tung oil includes varnish which of course helps it to dry faster and help the finish some. Some Tung Oil does not even have tung oil in it but soya oil - by the way not a bad product if you do not like the yellow tint but extremely misleading. Watco uses varnish and Tung Oil in their Tung Oil .

The problem is the finish manufacturers do not tell you what you are buying on their label. They sometimes intentionally mislead their consumers. So it gets confusing. If we find something that works we tend to be trapped into using the same brand again because we know it worked last time. lol.

I am not suggesting here that you use lacquer for a home project unless you have the right equipment, but do suggest you take a look at the new version of Bob's book if you interested in learning because it will increase your knowledge and reduce the confusion.

Most woodworkers have learned the hard way by trying and failing and trying again because of the terrible labeling practices of finishing products. So the real world observations of what actually works is very valuable information.

Bob is a no bs kind of guy and simplifies a complicated subject. I took his 2 day course on the basics at Highland Hardware and feel it was money well spent. Even if you think you have a fair amount of experience read his book cover to cover before taking his course.

Have fun !

------------------

Bob Flexner has been professionally involved in furniture finishing and refinishing for over 20 years. In the late 1980's he became so frustrated with the lack of accurate information about wood finishes that he began studying the chemistry of these products himself. After absorbing much of the science behind the craft he started writing about it, translating the jargon into straightforward, easy-to-understand language.


In his books Mastering Woodworking: Applying Finishes, Nov. 1996, and Understanding Wood Finishing, 1994, in numerous articles in a wide variety of publications, and in workshops and seminars on the subject, Flexner has cut through the myths surrounding the craft of finishing and made it accessible to everyone.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for the great responses (all over the map, but hey, if I wanted unanimous, I'd ask myself!). Not up on some of the lingo, so I assume BLO is linseed oil? And "precat lacquer" is.....??

BLO is "Boiled Linseed Oil"....not really "boiled" but it's linseed oil processed with metalic dryers so that it will cure in a reasonable amount of time. While it's one of the "least durable" finishes in the continum, it's also one of the oldest ones around in a sense. Folks like me use it in places that others will insist that they have to slather polyurethane varnish on for "protection" Well, Dr. SWMBO's desk is finished in BLO and wax and after 7 years of use, it still looks wonderful. It's been re-waxed three times in those 7 years. Now, for my kitchen table...I have varnish on it. Different use pattern and purpose. I use shellac on many furniture pieces, too...and have no problems with "durability"...

"Pre-cat lacquer" is pre-catylized lacquer...a commercial finish that cures hard and has very high "durability". (It's not something that most of us should be spraying as it really requires special environments to apply safely.

If you cannot spray, a good phenolic or alkyd resin based varnish will work wonderfully for your table project and can be wiped on by thinning about 50% with mineral spirits. Very easy to apply. And yes, it can be put over BLO...just wait about a week after applying the oil (and wiping off any excess) so it has time to cure. (Or use a barrier coat of de-waxed shellac after about three days if you want to start on the varnish coats sooner)