House construction question

[Jim Hoelzel]

Hi All.

I am TRYING to install new base trim and crown molding in our house. We have taken on a major remodel on this house, and now I am running into more problems. At one time one whole floor was gutted, all wall coverings removed, and all flooring removed back to original sub-floor. At this time we had the original boiler removed along with all of the base board radiators. So the living room, dining room and KITCHEN are stripped clean!

The house is an all brick home, and a tri-level. It was built in 1950, give or take a year. I believe that the house was built out of block, and then bricked on the exterior. It has never had any type of trim, or wood work installed. All of the window and door openings are all plastered with a rolled edge. Seemed odd at the time of purchase, but thought maybe the guy that built it did not like staining trim work???

Now for the dilemma, I think the drywall was glued? to the block walls. Is this possible? And how in the world do I nail the trim to the walls? I just attempted to install the base board, and to shoot a 2" finish nail in to hold it. But the nail only went into the wall about 1/2" and stopped, jamming the gun.

Anyone have any solutions for me? Is this a common construction of older brick homes?

Thanks!

Jim

[Jeff Horton]

Construction adhesive?

[Jim Hoelzel]

The base I am installing is the 5 1/2" tall, painted trim. Do you think that will hold it up in high traffic areas without any problems?

Jim

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim.........I just finished installing a new MR scanner in a new wing of a local hospital. I watched a guy install all of the molding using construction adhesive. Good luck!

[Jim Hoelzel]

OK, I am going to have to glue his stuff up. What kind of construction adhesive do I use?

Jim

[Larry Reimer]

Jim, I'd agree with the rest of them, glue it up. The "Loctite" brand adhesive which seems to get a lot of TV advertising has worked for us as advertised. Great stuff. We've had exterior trim glued directly to brick (we just had to try it) been there since last fall and it's still there and still solid. I'm convinced.

[Peter Mc Mahon]

PL Premium made by Bulldog? It holds anything but you will never be able to remove the trim afterwards. I think that after doing a test piece you may [but probably not] find that some areas need constant pressure applied. You could use tape or hot glue [just dabs to make the connection with the adhesive doing the bonding work.] Good luck Peter

[Richard Wolf]

Use the PL construction adhesive and spring sticks to apply pressure until set. If the room is too wide set the spring sticks against a large object.

Richard

[Ben Grunow]

I would be suprised if your house had drywall glued to the block because this wouldn't leave any room for insulation. You would know if your house was built this way because it would be an icebox in those Il winters. Maybe you have plaster on wire lath with new drywall over it? That would explain the nail stopping. Why dont you cut a hole below the top of the base (5" tall if base board is 5 1/2" tall) and see what's there. I bet there is an air space between the finished wall and the brick or block exterior.

When I install crown moldings I make a triangular ripping of 2x material (sized so it leaves about 1/8" gap between the block and the back of the molding) and nail or screw it into the corner where the walls meet the ceilings with constuction adhesive (PL 400 is fine but PL premium is bombproof) and then install the crown with air driven nails and trim head screws. The base could be held with tapcon screws or masonry nails shot from a .22 cal. nail gun. I wouldn't try to install with glue only-it would take forever and you would go nuts trying to close every little gap without any way to really hold things in place.

[Roland Chung]

Jim,

I know that this is rarely the case, but if money is no object, there is a new type of glue gun from 3m called the EZ Pur system. It uses standard caulking tube sized hot melt polyurethane at $20 per tube. It can be used sparingly and one tube can go a long way. The gun plugs into 120v and a compressor and is trigger activated.

Seems like your application would be perfect for this system. There are various tack times - 5, 15, 30, 60 seconds. I've been able to use the EZ Pur on cabinet installations where a quick solution was neccessary along with no nail holes.

The standard construction adhesive will work fine for straight walls, but if you have a lot of waviness and whoop de doos, then maybe something like this would be helpfull. The gun costs around $350 - yeah it's pricey, but maybe cheaper than a finish nailer that will shoot into plaster or brick. Good luck!

[Jim Andrew]

I used to use pl premium to glue back splash in kitchens. Laminate over particle board. Installed with the spring boards left over night. Jim

[Lopaka Garcia]

Liquid Nails is unreal stuff. Make sure you want it there before you put it there because it's going to stay there. :D They make Liquid Nails to hold up entire walls. Strong stuff it is. It comes in tube like chalking and you can use either a chalking gun or the smaller tube come squeezable. The chalking gun size is probably the way you want to go. Doesn't get any easier than that.

[Steve Clardy]

How deep are your window, door casing?
That would give you a clue to if theres cement block there.
Usually there's 1x1.5 strips nailed, glued on the blocks behind the drywall.
How many times did you try nailing it? Maybe you just hit a nail, drywall screw?

[Jim Hoelzel]

I would be suprised if your house had drywall glued to the block because this wouldn't leave any room for insulation. You would know if your house was built this way because it would be an icebox in those Il winters. Maybe you have plaster on wire lath with new drywall over it?
I was surprised also! But I did cut a square out, and it is 3/8" drywall, and about the same thickness of plaster attached to a cinder block. I went out and bought the PL. I am going to install it tomarrow(Wed.).

Thanks for the reply!

Jim

[Jim Hoelzel]

How deep are your window, door casing?
That would give you a clue to if theres cement block there.
Usually there's 1x1.5 strips nailed, glued on the blocks behind the drywall.
How many times did you try nailing it? Maybe you just hit a nail, drywall screw?

I thought I might of been a good shot, and hit a couple drywall screws or nails, but trying 6 different places???:)

The best measurement I could get was 8 3/4" wide. Maybe a tad wider. I do not think they used any 1x strips here.

Jim

[Steve Clardy]

Those are pretty wide walls. How does it heat, cool?

I was once in a house in south missouri that had 18" wide outside walls. All rock, plaster inside, stucco outside.
Story on that was it was built during the civil war. They built the walls thick, to repell cannon balls.

[Jerry Olexa]

That is VERY unusual construction. Can't picture gluing drywall to cement block. Liq Nails will work for molding but I'd probe more (more test holes in out of way places) before I commit to gluing. Even then, there were codes and inspections I think. I'd even remove a small section of dry wall that will later be covered w trim and see what's there. G Luck..

[Ben Grunow]

You live in a place where it gets cold right? I would think that it would be very expensive to heat a house with no thermal break between the outside and inside of the walls- is it? Also, without good a/c those walls are gonna sweat on the summer (condensation forming on the relatively cold wall surface in the hot moist air). I simply can't imagine a house being built like that. Maybe an industrial building in a temperate climate with real plaster on wire but not drywall. Just when you think you've seen it all. Sorry for ranting, I'm just suprised. Good luck with the trim.

[Dave Klear]

When we do commercial we use PL Pro and use 18 gauge pins cross nailed at an angle each way(one each way in the same hole) to hold the trim against the wall. Do your casing first, close the door and shim the reveal. (between the door and jamb) nail the casing on the jamb and glue to the wall. Let it dry (its a pain keeping the door shut) Sometimes if you can find a mortar joint you can run a trim screw in. Predrill with a cement bit. Then when you do your base try and get it to fit snug on the ends. That will help hold it. Then cross nail it with some 1-1/4 18 guage pins. (When the pins hit the concrete at an angle they will tend to bend under the drywall kinda hooking themselves in. Of course sometimes they don't :(
Its easier to do than to explain but hope this helps

[Jim Hoelzel]

First I would like to thank all of you for your replys and ideas!

I was going with the PL glue up, but with a room that is 26 feet long by 16 feet wide, I had nothing to press the trim to the wall with. So I drilled small 1/16" holes thru the base board into the plaster for markings every 16". Then I drilled 1/2" holes into the concrete blocks, epoxied oak dowels in the holes, and used trim head screws to fasten to wall until glue dried. I was going to remove the screws and fill the holes. But I think I have them counter sunk enough to just cover the small screw heads.

The wife thinks it looks GREAT, so I am now on too the crown molding in that room. Of coarse I have the same problem with the filler blocks behind the crown, but I am just screwing them to the ceiling:).

Thanks again!

Jim