Groove in bottom of plane

[Raymond Stanley]

Hi All,
I just recieved my very first plane, a #4 Stanley-Bailey Type 13 from the 1920s bought on ebay, in the mail yesterday! Was very excited about it until I saw a long thin groove in the sole, as somebody had run the thing over a nail.

How much will this effect performance as-is?

What are my options for repair....I could lap it down, but not sure how much sole would be left.

Do you think it is worth making a stink about, given it wasn't mentioned on the description?

Never have used a plane before...I knew vintage would be a challenge, but it is all I can afford.

Thanks,
Ray

[Steve Clardy]

I wouldn't worry about it. Just get er cleaned and tuned, and use it.


Edit. Welcome to the creek!!

[Mike Wenzloff]

Without a picture I don't know how bad this is, but in general it really won't affect performance nor mar your work. I would lap the bottom flat anyway. Once done making the plane reasonably flat, I would just make sure the edges of the groove are relieved by just lightly sanding them a few strokes with fine sandpaper.

Once you know the plane works well, swaping out the iron for a LN or Hock replacement blade will make the plane even better. But use the original first to see if this [hand planing] is even something you wish to do often enough to justify the cost of the replacement blade.

Take care, Mike

[Raymond Stanley]

Thanks for the feedback guys...keep it comin! I'm excited to get started. I'll post a pic tonight.

[William Daly]

Stanley made an aluminum plane at one time, I think it was a #4.

It would say "4A" on the casting. You could also tell by the heft.

The reason they made aluminum planes was supposedly to reduce user fatigue.

The problem with the aluminum was that it was much softer than steel and subject to the damage that you mentioned.

As long as the blade does not have a cirresponding nick it it you should be fine.

The following was taken from Patrick leach's website on planes.
www.supertool.com (http://www.supertool.com)


A4 Smooth plane, 9"L, 2"W, 2 1/4lbs, 1925-1935. *One of Stanley's dumber ideas, as can be inferred from their short time of offering, was the aluminum planes. The bed and frog on this plane are made from aluminum, which makes the plane lighter. This was the supposed appeal of these planes, that they are lighter than the iron planes. That, and that they weren't prone to rusting. Rosewood was used for the knob and tote. Despite all these swell features, the planes were a miserable flop.

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/a4.jpg
These planes were produced at a time when nickel plating appeared on the lever caps. All the ones I've seen have the old-style lever cap, without the new kidney-shaped hole that was first produced in 1933. If you see one of these planes with a lever cap that is nickel plated and has a kidney-shaped hole, it's probably a replacement. The depth adjusting knob is also nickel plated, as well as the lateral adjustment lever.
They'd be useful tools if you were planing over your head all day, but not many of us do that. Since aluminum oxidizes easily, these planes leave despicable skidmarks (for lack of a better word) on the freshly planed wood. The planes - those that were used, that is - also tend to develop a very ratty look to them. The surface of the aluminum becomes riddled with dings and scratches making them blech to even the casual Stanley collector (well, maybe not all of them, but many of them for certain) - most of them take on a striking resemblance to the lunar landscape after being used. Those that are in mint condition have some appeal about them, but they still have look like of an aluminum pot or piece of foil. If you're collecting this stuff, make sure it's aluminum and not some iron plane in aluminum paint clothing - if the weight of the thing doesn't clue you in, a magnet will.
The aluminum planes were appreciably more expensive than the cast iron models. For instance, the #A4 cost $5.65 at its introduction, whereas the #4 (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm#num4) cost $4.20 during the same time. Even back in the Roaring 1920's, consumers were smart enough to avoid a plane that cost over 25% more than one that did a better job. You have to wonder if any heads rolled for this braindead idea? Lucky for us that Stanley didn't make a mitre box, or something like that, out of aluminum. Hey, wait a minute, they did! Let's just say that the company was going through a phase and be done with it.

[Brian Hale]

I wouldn't be too worried about it, just flatten the sole enough to make it a usuable tool. Keep in mind that Stanley made planes with grooved soles denoted with a C in the number system #5C #4C etc. that were supposed to reduce friction during use.

Brian :)

[Roger Charles]

I don't think you should worry about it. As long as the sole is flat and the blade sharpened you will get fine shavings.

[Raymond Stanley]

Great point, Brian...never thought of that.
Well, I haven't had the chance to get the picture taken because I have 2 major home improvement projects going on at my condo..but I'm convinced it's not a big deal.
As soon as finish up my diy projects then put in mad week of work, I'll start tunin that plane :)
Thanks so much!
-Ray

[Larry Norton]

Ray, I probably wouldn't give the guy bad feedback, however, I would email him and tell him that his description should have included the groove.

Most ebayers are very good about including things like that, the more bad feedback they get, the less stuff they sell.

I wouldn't worry about the groove. Just make sure you sharpen the blade if it's nicked where the groove is.

[Travis Johnson]

I read and re-read the orginal post but there really needs to be some more information posted about this groove. I am not very familiar with the Old Stanley Brand, but I am with Lie Neisen and with that brand you can order many of their planes with a groove milled down the sole of the plane. That groove is for the making of fly fishing rods.

Now if the groove appears to be milled then I would suspect you have a plane that was used in the construction and repair of fly fishing rods. This makes sense as in the 1920's the recreational fishing industry really began to take off. Of course in those days even regular fishing poles were made of wood, not only fly fishing rods.

Now if the groove looks more like a heavy scratch that wonders and is anything from straight, then you have a problem and everything I type in this reply can be tossed right into the sawdust pile.

Whether the plane has a fly rod groove or a scratch really does not matter, the person selling you the plane should have disclosed such information.

[tod evans]

raymond, scratches or groves shouldn`t have any effect on the planes operation. here`s a couple of stanleys as the factory supplied them almost 100 yrs. ago...02 tod

39833

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Good point. Here's a link that describes the LN block plane and has a description and pic of the groove. (http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1216)

[Raymond Stanley]

The groove does not appear to be put there by Stanley...it wonders across the plane, as if it were run across a nail...I guess pics will be important; I'll post them tonight or tomorrow morn.
Thanks for the info-
Ray

[Raymond Stanley]

Here's a pic finally....had issues getting it down below the 100K or so limit.

[Steve Clardy]

A little tuning, flatening, and some high speed continous use:eek: :rolleyes: , and that scratch will disappear.


Try using Easy Thumbnails for reducing your pics. Free download on cnet, easy to use.

[tod evans]

raymond, that plane looks to be in fine shape, there`s no chips out of the throat and no major cancer. i`d give her a sharpening and go to town..02 tod

[Brian Hale]

That's nothing to worry about, in fact it'll hold a bit of wax to make planing a lot easier.

Just flatten the sole as needed, sharpen the blade and have fun!

Brian :)

[Raymond Stanley]

Thanks for all the great feedback, guys! I'm ready to make some shavings....Fettling here I come.