Craftsman Table Saw

[Jon Shakespear]

Fine Woodworking rated the Craftsman 1 ¾ HP 10” Table Saw Mfr. model #OR35504 highly last year, and I’m basing my decision to buy it heavily on the review. It comes with a Biesemeyer fence, a fully enclosed cabinet, and cast iron extension wings, and is in my price range of about $1000. Does anyone out there have any experience with this machine? I am considering purchasing it as my first table saw this summer. Delta has a similar hybrid saw with a Biesemeyer fence for roughly the same price (Mfr. model #36-717). Would anyone recommend this saw over the Craftsman? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[M. A. Espinoza]

Just as a heads-up, you might check the Delta 36-715 on Amazon. Use the promo code SAVMAY23 for an extra 10 percent off.

Craftsman/Delta hybrid saws are all made by Orion with different fences and the Delta's have different trunnion mounts. Sounds like they all have the same motor.

I have no affiliation with any of the companies just ran across the price and thought you might want to know.

[glenn bradley]

I've been dreaming over that model as well. The cabinet mounted trunnion puts this model a step ahead of it's competitors. I have seen shop-shots of several creekers who have this saw. I haven't heard any negative comments. I'm sure those who own one will respond directly.

P.s. (don't shoot me guys) The Delta didn't due too well in a recent bake off I read through. However, the Delta saw reviewed did not have the Biesemeyer (Delta's clone), got dinged for a plastic motor cover (which the Craftsman/Orion has) and was disappointing in power despite having a larger motor. Any single review can be a little subjective, read more if you can find 'em.

[scott spencer]

Hi Jon - Welcome to the creek!

You should be able to find plenty of happy 22124 owners here and on Woodnet.net, as well as several other places. I rarely read of anyone not pleased with the saw overall. Most complaints come from non-owners. With the right blade I can cut anything I can get my hands on. It's heavy and very stable. The 22124 does have the advantage of the cabinet mounted trunnions and a pretty nice stock blade. I've added a router table to it and very happy with the setup, and find it to be more than adequate for a hobbyist. Sale prices can make the 22124 pretty attractive.

That said, full retail puts it pretty close to a Grizzly 1023 3hp cabinet saw, which is undoubtedly a heavier duty machine. If you've got 220v and don't mind spending an additional couple hundred $, it's alot of machine for a hobbyist. In my case, going with the 1023 would have required roughly double the money, which I couldn't justify.

http://www.epinions.com/content_184778395268

[J. Greg Jones]

I have the Delta 36-717 and am very happy with it. Most owners of the Sears 22124 are pleased with their saw as well, so it is hard to go wrong with either one. As a side note, the motor cover on the Delta is metal-not plastic.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Search this forum ( and others too). recently there have been threads articulating some serious bearing failures on the craftsman motors.

I have read that the 3HP craftsman motors only put out 1 & 1/2 HP. If this is true if the other motors they use you might want to consider actual output as an issue to look into.

[Jeff Horton]

Just as another option for $1000 you should be able to find a used Unisaw. They are been around forever and parts are still available for them.

[scott spencer]

Search this forum ( and others too). recently there have been threads articulating some serious bearing failures on the craftsman motors.

I have read that the 3HP craftsman motors only put out 1 & 1/2 HP. If this is true if the other motors they use you might want to consider actual output as an issue to look into.

Any links to the bearing issues mentioned above? I've read or heard nothing about that issue with the new hybrids or the Delta which uses the same motor, arbor, and drive system. Craftsman has several different levels of tools...is it possible you're referring to a recent post about a bad bearing on a $200 direct drive saw?

I also believe that the comment about the motor ratings applies to their lower level of tools as well, or at least is does not apply to the hybrids. Sears sometimes uses "maximum developed hp" that essentially gives an inflated rating that's not realistic. The motors on the Delta and Craftsman hybrids are pretty similar to other induction motors in this class. Having used a GI "2hp" contractor saw for 2 years, and now the 22124 Craftsman "1-3/4hp" saw for 1 year, I dare saw the 22124 has more "perceived" power....but there are likely factors other than the motor that contribute to that perception.

[Jerry Olexa]

Jon, hate to be negative but...I for one am not a big fan of Craftsman power tools. They are usually made for them by others. Even w/o reading a review, I'd take Delta over the CMan in a fast second. However, with $1000 to spend, you have lots of options. You might even be able to get a cabinet saw. I would stick with a major tool mfr (other than CMan) such as Delta,Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly, etc etc. Even though you're spending a grand, go for the gold or better units..IMHO

[Ed Bamba]

Jon, hate to be negative but...I for one am not a big fan of Craftsman power tools. They are usually made for them by others. Even w/o reading a review, I'd take Delta over the CMan in a fast second. However, with $1000 to spend, you have lots of options. You might even be able to get a cabinet saw. I would stick with a major tool mfr (other than CMan) such as Delta,Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly, etc etc. Even though you're spending a grand, go for the gold or better units..IMHO

Jerry, not to be argumentative, but of the other brands you listed, which of them make their own machines?

Ed

[Don Dean]

Over the past year I have been putting my first shop together; pictures to finely be posted next week. I have mainly purchased from recommendations from this forum, except for my table saw which only a very few recommended. I went with the Craftsman 22142 that you have asked about. I have not been more pleased with my decision from set up to making wood chips and dust. I have not found one thing that I have been unpleased about.

[Scott Donley]

I have read that the 3HP craftsman motors only put out 1 & 1/2 HP. If this is true if the other motors they use you might want to consider actual output as an issue to look into. You mean that Delta benchtop that was rated at 3HP and drew 12 amps on sale for 89 bucks really was 3 HP ? I don't think CM has been the only maker over rating the HP, as a matter of fact, the 22124 at 15 amp and 1 3/4 HP seems realistic to me. The manual for the 22124 states it is 1 3/4 with it being 2 1/4 peak.

[Jerry Olexa]

:)
Jerry, not to be argumentative, but of the other brands you listed, which of them make their own machines?

Ed

None, Ed to my knowledge..Delta used to be US made but no more... Good point but I think I'd rather have Delta supervising the mfr of their tool in Tawain versus Ryobi who makes many of Sears tools.In other word, given a choice, would you generally prefer a Delta or a Ryobi for a new power tool? Just MHO. I further do not like the Overstated HP rating which helps Sears sell to an uninformed buyer. They are not alone in that deed..I do own a Craftsman Recip saw which I've had about 8-9 years. Bought it when building the cabin. Its been OK for what I needed At the time. We'd better get Bob Villa's advice on this:) :D

[scott spencer]

:)

None, Ed to my knowledge..Delta used to be US made but no more... Good point but I think I'd rather have Delta supervising the mfr of their tool in Tawain versus Ryobi who makes many of Sears tools.In other word, given a choice, would you generally prefer a Delta or a Ryobi for a new power tool? Just MHO. I further do not like the Overstated HP rating which helps Sears sell to an uninformed buyer. They are not alone in that deed..I do own a Craftsman Recip saw which I've had about 8-9 years. Bought it when building the cabin. Its been OK for what I needed At the time. We'd better get Bob Villa's advice on this:) :D

Jerry - Many of the newer Craftsman woodworking machines are made by Orion, which is a company that was formed by former Delta employees when Pentair bought Delta. They are rumored to have a role in the Delta hybrids too. The new bandsaws are rumored to be made by Rikon, but I'm not sure of that. It's likely that Ryobi is making the new BT-3100 clone for Sears as well as other tools, but the major cast iron machinery is no longer made by them AFAIK.

[Greg Koch]

To "Ditto" Scott....

http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1441&highlight=22124

[Barry Beech]

Just as another option for $1000 you should be able to find a used Unisaw. They are been around forever and parts are still available for them.

I agree with Jeff, That is exactly what I did and couldn't be happier. I now have all the power I could ever need.

[Ed Bamba]

:)

None, Ed to my knowledge..Delta used to be US made but no more... Good point but I think I'd rather have Delta supervising the mfr of their tool in Tawain versus Ryobi who makes many of Sears tools.In other word, given a choice, would you generally prefer a Delta or a Ryobi for a new power tool? Just MHO. I further do not like the Overstated HP rating which helps Sears sell to an uninformed buyer. They are not alone in that deed..I do own a Craftsman Recip saw which I've had about 8-9 years. Bought it when building the cabin. Its been OK for what I needed At the time. We'd better get Bob Villa's advice on this:) :D

Jerry to answer your question; since I've never (knowingly):o used a Ryobi product, I would have to go with Delta. I do own a Delta DJ20 (Taiwan made) and like it a lot. But then again, I've never had the chance to use the American-made/Brazillan-made version.

To the OP, I own the 22124 and it does perform to my expectation. I'm still relatively new to WW, so I may, or may not out grow this saw. The only other TS that I've used is a 14" Northfield---way more saw than I'll ever need. I've seen the Delta Hybrid in person and it seems like a decent saw. I like the CM version because it has the trunions mounted on the cabinet. I bought mine during the last sale frenzy. I would buy one again at the same price, but not sure if I would spend a grand for one though. If I had access to 220V, and found a nice, used Uni or PM, I would have probably picked up one locally; there have been a few listed in the paper in recent months. But my CZS is doing just fine for me right now. HTH

Take care,
Ed

[Jeffrey Schronce]

You should pay substantially less for the 22124 than $1000. Think $750 or so when on sale, CM club and 10% Sears card discount.
A few of us on another site were able to pick these up for $400 at the beginning of the year, when Sears Essentials stores were closing them out.
I really like the saw. The Biesemeyer fence is the bomb. I have never had any power issues, 6/4 hard maple is about the biggest test.
The Lietz blade is nice. Dust collection has not been a problem. There is some in the corners of the cabinet but not affecting performance. Set up was a breeze.

[Ed Bamba]

You should pay substantially less for the 22124 than $1000. Think $750 or so when on sale, CM club and 10% Sears card discount.
A few of us on another site were able to pick these up for $400 at the beginning of the year, when Sears Essentials stores were closing them out.
I really like the saw. The Biesemeyer fence is the bomb. I have never had any power issues, 6/4 hard maple is about the biggest test.
The Lietz blade is nice. Dust collection has not been a problem. There is some in the corners of the cabinet but not affecting performance. Set up was a breeze.

Jeffrey I concur with everything you wrote. $750 was about what I payed for my saw. I think Sears has caught on to the success (so far) of the CZS line up, and the 22124 specifically, because I haven't seen the 22124 go on sale yet; except for the Sears Essentials store deals mentioned.

Jon, if you are certain that you want the 22124, and are patient enough, you may want to hold fast and see if they go on sale again. Not sure how many Sears has sold at the current asking price ($999), which IMO is a bit too high for the saw. Regardless, everytime I look at the three CZS at Sears, I'm glad I went with the 22124 (at the sale price). It was the Biese fence that sold me on it--what a great fence.

Best of luck with your decision making process,
Ed

[glenn bradley]

Ooops, sorry! J. Greg is right of course. The review was in FWW and was a cabinet saw, not the hybrid. My other comments on the Delta refer to this review as well. Craftsman comments are from the hybrid review. Hard to go wrong with either machine. Please disregard my errors. My bad.

[glenn bradley]

Jon, bear in mind that some folks just don't like Craftsman and probably with good reasons of thier own. We are all caught in a period in history where you cannot 'brand shop'. I've got an old Craftsman/Emerson TS that is fine for what it is; better than others of that sort. Would I trade for an Orion or a Delta, Powermatic, etc. in a heartbeat? You bet. The point is; do your research and watch for sales. I've seen some attractive Grizzley prices based solely on the fact that they have replaced one model with another . . . we're really not helping you narrow it down are we?

[Frederick Rowe]

Jon- I own a Delta 36-715 (Hybrid w/T2 fence - a Beis clone). It is a fine TS, good castings, thoughtfully engineered, once tuned is dead on and holds it, and runs even better on 220. The T2 fence is as good (albeit slightly smaller) than the Beis. The aluminum fence faces can be replaced if desired for custom jigs, and only lacks the Beis' crisp rule lens (I replaced mine with an aftermarket magnifying lens). The 36-715 does use table mounted trunions, but I installed the PALS system (look into it-it'll change your mind about table mounted trunions), and tuning it is a breeze. I almost bought the Craftsman- almost universally positive feedback from owners. But here's the clincher. As I write this, Amazon.com is selling the 36-715 for $559.

There are several fine TS out there in the $900-1000 range, but at the price the Delta Hybrids are going for, I submit the Delta hybrid is hard to beat. You'd definately be hard pressed to find a better value.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Jeffrey I concur with everything you wrote. $750 was about what I payed for my saw. I think Sears has caught on to the success (so far) of the CZS line up, and the 22124 specifically, because I haven't seen the 22124 go on sale yet; except for the Sears Essentials store deals mentioned.

Jon, if you are certain that you want the 22124, and are patient enough, you may want to hold fast and see if they go on sale again. Not sure how many Sears has sold at the current asking price ($999), which IMO is a bit too high for the saw. Regardless, everytime I look at the three CZS at Sears, I'm glad I went with the 22124 (at the sale price). It was the Biese fence that sold me on it--what a great fence.

Best of luck with your decision making process,
Ed

I've seen it on sale in the stores for $849 in 2006 and through the 2005 holidays. Another 10% for sears card. Some folks have found that even though it runs contrary to the program specifics, the Craftsman Club card will often apply a discount to items that aren't currently a Craftsman Club special (at least this is what other have said).

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Jon- I own a Delta 36-715 (Hybrid w/T2 fence - a Beis clone). It is a fine TS, good castings, thoughtfully engineered, once tuned is dead on and holds it, and runs even better on 220. The T2 fence is as good (albeit slightly smaller) than the Beis. The aluminum fence faces can be replaced if desired for custom jigs, and only lacks the Beis' crisp rule lens (I replaced mine with an aftermarket magnifying lens). The 36-715 does use table mounted trunions, but I installed the PALS system (look into it-it'll change your mind about table mounted trunions), and tuning it is a breeze. I almost bought the Craftsman- almost universally positive feedback from owners. But here's the clincher. As I write this, Amazon.com is selling the 36-715 for $559.

There are several fine TS out there in the $900-1000 range, but at the price the Delta Hybrids are going for, I submit the Delta hybrid is hard to beat. You'd definately be hard pressed to find a better value.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Oh, no my friend it is $559 - $55.90 when applying SAVMAY23 discount code = $503.10.
Of course you have to add shipping, but in this case it is only $99 for ABF, who usually does a pretty good job in shipping. No sales tax on Amazon for most folks.
I have the 22124. I'd buy the Delta for $603.10 shipped, if I could not get the 22124 at $750 or below. Basically we're talking cabinet versus table mounted trunnions here. Once inital set up is done, that doesn't make a very big deal. Other differences are quality of blade (CM has Lietz), 22124 includes extention table, Delta has metal door cover v. 22124 plastic, Delta looks cooler than Craftsman in the shop (thats for the snobs, lol).

[Jerry Olexa]

Seems many of you really know and love the Craftsman tools esp this TS which rec'd good, credible reviews. Experience is the best teacher and many of you have that w Craftsman power tools (I don't) so I'll defer and respect your opinions.:) I think it was Shakepeare that said "one man's meat is another man's poison". Enjoy your new saw!

[Jon Shakespear]

Thanks to all you you who have taken the time to give me some appreciated advice. The Delta on Amazon.com sounds like an incredible deal. Too bad I won't be able to buy my table saw until I move into my new house in July. I imagine the offer will be long gone by then.
Jon Shakespear

[Phil Ordway]

Forget horepower ratings. 12.3 Amps is close to 1HP at 110VAC. Halve for 220. 1.5 true HP (about 18 Amps) is the max you can use on the typical 20 Amp 110VAC circuit. 220 VAC is better. The motor runs cooler (lasts longer) and has more perceived power. 3 true HP would be in the neighborhood of 18 Amps.

[Terry Flowers]

Hi all, I am new poster to SMW after lurking for several months. I learned of this group fromthe Festool owners group. Thought I might contribute to this thread.

My son has the 922124. I convinced him to buy it when he was able to get it for about $750. I worked on an entertainment center project with him and used the saw a lot. It worked well, and my perspective comes from woning a Unisaw for many years.

My son later found that he could not fit a stacked dado set at 3/4", which is really annoying and to me a real disadvantage. It is an inexpensive dado set from Grizzly.

Has anyone else noticed this? I wonder if another dado set would work at 3/4".

Regards,
Terry

[Brian Clevenger]

I moved from a 3hp cabinet saw to the 22124 and I haven't missed the big saw at all. I have a Craftsman adjustable stacked dado (not the single blade junk) that will expand to 3/4" on the arbor, but not the full 13/16". This is not a big deal to me, as I usually use the EZ Smart SRK for dado cuts in plywood.

The only problem I had with the older cabinet saw was its size. It had a 50" Biese with a T-square overhead guard. It just wasn't feasible to move it around the shop, even with a mobile base.

With that said, I cannot think of another saw I would rather have in my 2-car garage shop than the 22124. I intend to add the Shark-guard very soon, but he stock guard is better than most. It rips 6/4 hardwood with no problem. I really appreciate the 12" cast wings (my older saw only had 8" wings) and the fold-up outfeed. Since I set my workbenches the same height as my saw, I can use them for an extended outfeed if needed.

BTW, the normal cost of the 22124 on sale with the Craftsman Club discount is around $853.

I can't tell you that this will be the saw for you, but it sure is the saw for me.

[Terry Flowers]

What is a Shark guard??

Thanks,
Terry

[Brian Clevenger]

I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting a link, but here is one to the shark guard. http://www.leestyron.com/sharkcrman.php

It seems like a worthy addition to the saw, although it isn't cheap. I had the chance to see an earlier version on a different saw, and I was quite impressed. It was made using a thicker stock than the standard guard, thus making it better as a splitter. I know it isn't a must have, but safety is first in my shop.

[Denny Rice]

Jon, hate to be negative but...I for one am not a big fan of Craftsman power tools. They are usually made for them by others. Even w/o reading a review, I'd take Delta over the CMan in a fast second. However, with $1000 to spend, you have lots of options. You might even be able to get a cabinet saw. I would stick with a major tool mfr (other than CMan) such as Delta,Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly, etc etc. Even though you're spending a grand, go for the gold or better units..IMHO

Jerry,

Your right, this Craftsman saw is made by Orion the same people who make The Steel City 35601 both saws are identical. If you check out SC website you can download the owners manual they take the same parts. The Craftsman 22124 is a high quality saw. I love mine.:)