Tool and Dust Collection Paid Advice

[Bill Pentz]

Because I am fairly well known vendors keep offering to pay me money if I will mention their names in my posts and pay me even more if I will include links to their web pages. They offer on average $0.03 for every person who reads a thread where I mention the firm’s name in my post. If I include a link to that vendor’s web pages they pay $0.06 for each person that clicks on the link, plus 3% to 10% commission if the person buys within thirty days. These vendors also promised that their current monitoring software never requires me to post a link with a giveaway ID showing I am being paid for my recommendations. They also gave me names of some very popular, very high volume posters saying each generates about $50 off each major forum thread from the name and links, plus upwards of $2K a month in commissions. I keep turning them down because I think what they request is unethical. Many of the larger forums permanently ban these people, especially if they quote other member advice as their own. What do you think?

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Because I am fairly well known vendors keep offering to pay me money if I will mention their names in my posts and pay me even more if I will include links to their web pages. They offer on average $0.03 for every person who reads a thread where I mention the firm’s name in my post. If I include a link to that vendor’s web pages they pay $0.06 for each person that clicks on the link, plus 3% to 10% commission if the person buys within thirty days. These vendors also promised that their current monitoring software never requires me to post a link with a giveaway ID showing I am being paid for my recommendations. They also gave me names of some very popular, very high volume posters saying each generates about $50 off each major forum thread from the name and links, plus upwards of $2K a month in commissions. I keep turning them down because I think what they request is unethical. Many of the larger forums permanently ban these people, especially if they quote other member advice as their own. What do you think?

I'd have to say that I'm very glad that you are so generous with you time and with your results, I know I breathe easier for it.

I'm not at all surprised at this information, all most any business is all about advertising.

I think it is sad that someone would take money in this way on this or any other forum, but, I guess there is nothing we can do about it.

Cheers!

[Jamie Buxton]

Celebrity endorsement deals are big. For instance, Tiger Woods makes a bunch of money endorsing Buick, and Eva Longoria advertises some brand of make-up. Nobody accuses them of unethical behavior -- maybe because everybody understands they're just acting as attention-grabbers, rather than seriously believing these products are really better than the competition.

[Tom Hamilton]

Bill, it seems to me your integrity and trustworthiness is earned from your experience, knowledge and willingness to share the same.

Earning some income from your experience and knowledge is the America way; however to me, earning income as an author, consultant or speaker seems more appropriate than as a "fellow Creeker" just posting and sharing.

Perhaps if paid posters filed a disclaimer with each post, identifing their paid relationships, it would put it in the proper perspective.

In any event, I have read your web site for several years, am in the trail of a cyclone for my shop, and want to thank you for the effort you made to educate me, and probably thousands of other woodworkers.

Well done, Bill.


Best regards, Tom in Houston moving toward reduced dust in his shop thanks to Bill Pence.


PS: Does the Creek require paid posters to ID themselves?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bill

I see no problem recommending someone's products as long as you truly believe in the quality of their products. If you don't believe in their products...then I'd think I'd have a moral problem.

I, also, think in the TOS of this site....there could be a hitch......

But if you came to this site and recommended someone visit your website for a recommendation.....and tell people they can find your website by going to your user CP.....hey.........I'd think this would not violate the TOS.

Personally....I wouldn't recommend something unless I truly believed the product or services performed as advertised.

JMHO.....

[rick fulton]

Bill -

I commend you for your integrity. Based on your excellent web site and your respected forum contributions I would not have expected your decision to be different.

But, if you truly believe one product is superior to the others, is accepting money from that vendor really all that bad? Assuming it does not sway your judgment when a better product comes along.

I wonder if any high posters on this forum accept these offers. How could one find out?

rick

[Mike Henderson]

My first thought was, "Why not collect if you were going to recommend them anyway?" But the more I thought about it, I realized that the payment would have a corrupting effect, no matter how you tried to counter it.

And then the opposite might occur. You might go overboard and NOT recommend something because you want to make sure you’re not being influenced by the payment.

Either way, you’re not giving an unbiased opinion. Best to stay untainted.

There was a famout New York politican - don't remember, maybe the mayor - who was approached by people who wanted to bribe him. He threw them out with the words, “Get out! Get out now before you reach my price.”

Mike

[Chuck Saunders]

I believe in giving credit where credit is due. If brand X is what worked for me then I will clearly identify brand X. If it didn't work I would be equally clear. I would and have recommended Bill's Site as I think that the information is provided in my best interest, thank you Bill. Fortunately fewer people are interested in my endorsements than in my opinion and there are not many there either. The ethics in question is not the mentioning of a name or product but rather in trading your credibility for cash. Usually this behavior becomes fairly obvious. It would be an interesting experiment to see how many times you actually mention a vendor without purposely doing so. Interesting peek into how the other half lives (advertisers)

[Dev Emch]

Wow! You mean I can get paid for having a big mouth? This is great. How do I sign up for this service? There are few folks who know the inner workings of most machines as well I do.......:D


Oh wait, you mean the company paying the cash bucks still needs to be in business. Opps. Knew there was a catch somewhere.:mad:


Seriously, you need to do your own sole searching. In my own case, when I tell folks to go get an oliver table saw or northfield or porter jointer, they know I am sincere for two reasons.

1). Come on over and check out my barn. You will see that I practice what I preach.

2). Most of the best companies are sadly no longer with us. So you know I am not working as a compensated endorser.

[M. A. Espinoza]

As long as there is disclosure then it seems fine. I think it would cause many people to take the information presented "with a grain of salt".

Without dislosure it seems unethical to offer what is supposed to be an opinion that is actually a paid testimonial or endorsement.

I heard a news piece recently regarding a similar type of marketing of people paid to walk in busy areas having "conversations" extolling the virtues of item "X". A compensated post recommending an item in a woodworking forum has the same angle it seems. Didn't these people used to be called a "shill"

Regarding your Mr. Pentz situation specifically it gets a little more foggy. He has done a tremendous amount of research and given free access to all his information. Really seems he is deserving of compensation as usually this would be done as R & D to bring something to market. But if he wants to share the information that is his choice.

I suppose Mr. Pentz could just archive his information into downloadable .pdf files and charge a small fee for each download. Fine Woodworking does something similar for their article archives.

I appreciate Mr. Pentz disclosing the offers he has recieved, I had no idea that web marketing was using the methods he described.

[Andy London]

In your case Bill and having known you online since this all started and knowing your history, and amazied at the research you have done, I think you should be paid for your efforts based on your personal situation. I think that I know you well enough that the dollar would not swing your opinion at all, you are pretty black and white in this area and I think the extra bit of income you would receive would go a long way for you and your family.

Andy

[Doug Shepard]

I for one am glad the ethics of this bothers you a bit and you're staying independent. One of the reasons outfits like Consumer Reports have gained the respect of readers is by not accepting paid advertising or pulling any punches when it comes to reviews. I also believe you should be paid for your efforts but in a different way. It makes more sense to me for a company to pay you for design consultation and actually improve their products. That way you could recommend Brand X with a clear conscience, consumers would get better dust collectors, and everybody wins. Just my 2 cents.

[Rick Doyle]

hi bill,

your post gave me a great idea - maybe i can approach a few of these vendors and get them to pay me if i 'DON'T' mention their names in my posts?:confused:

anyway, paying posters in forums is a new one on me - i'd never heard of that before! i use affiliate ads on my website but it's up to any visitor to choose whether or not to click on them or not. it really doesn't add up to much because i have a relatively small visitor count but the commissions do help to pay for isp's and webhosting etc. but in your case, i think the revenue could be significant and i think you should definitely consider it.

like a few previous posters have said, the only ethical question to me is whether you believe and support the vendors and products you recommend - i am sure you would so i don't see a problem at all.

i mean right now, we are obviously giving financial support to people who we are completely unaware of. so, why not give that same type of support to those we do know and trust - like you? go for it!!

[Jim O'Dell]

This type of compensation came to my attention in a private post about a year ago. I was a little surprised at first that this went on behind the scenes, then thought that someone was pretty smart who started it. Can't say they are very ethical.... but smart, yes.
This is different than the advertising that celebrities or actors do to promote a product. It is clear that they are advertising something. If someone on this forum sent me a PM that said if I was interested in XY product, please go to their web site and click on a certain link to order, I wouldn't be totally opposed to that. I wouldn't want to be bombarded everyday with solicitations from multiple people, but again this would be up front and I would know what and why they were pushing something. I'm not real fond of people pushing a product but hiding the benefits they receive. I hope that's not happening on this forum, but then I'm not going to be naive about it either.
I also want to thank Bill for his efforts to warn all of us about the dangers of the fine dust in woodworking. I know that he receives a small fee for every Clear Vue that is sold, not just the people he recommends it to. That is clear on both his and Ed's websites, and to me that is "JUST" compensation for the research and development Bill put into his design. If the other major players had done the same thing, or just paid a consulting fee to Bill for helping them with product development, I think that would have been great also. I'm glad Bill received a little for the Clear Vue that I purchased. One of the days (hopefully soon!) I'm going to get the electricity turned on so I can get mine running! No, I DON'T receive any compensation for the opinions I post. But then they don't carry much weight, either.:D :eek: I'm sure you've all noticed that I haven't published any project pictures yet. :p Jim.

[tod evans]

bill, your moral turpitude is bright-n-clear....thanks for chipping in your.02!

.02 tod

[Cecil Arnold]

Bill, I have always respected your opinion and the research you have done in your effort to educate woodworkers to protect their health. Over the past couple of years I have seen your web site change so far as your opinion regarding various DCs, :confused: in that you seem to have gone from a favorable opinion of some, to only favoring the Clear-Vue. That being said, if you have an opinion about brand X and they want to pay you money for that opinion, then I think you should do it. I would say that you are the one who has to look yourself in the mirror each morning to shave, ;) ;) but seeing your avatar realize that is a poor homilie. If brand Y also wanted to pay for a less favorable opinion that included a link to their site, then let them pay. I think the most important thing is to maintain your personal integrity, give an honest opinion, and let people know that by providing links to other's webs you are being paid. People are going to buy DCs anyway (hopefully) so why shouldn't you get something for your work and opinion.

[Howard Rosenberg]

Bill -

Your integrity is beyond question.
Your web site is excellent.
Your forum contributions are deservedly well-respected.

BUT --
If you have personal knowledge of which products are superior for a given purpose, why would turning your knowledge, information and opinions into a revenue stream be a bad thing?

Don't be swayed by visions of world domination at the rate of .03 for each click.
And don't be swayed by thinking money is evil.
It's not.
It's just money.

I'd say go for it.

My 2C.
Howard

[Phil Maddox]

If I were in your shoes....I don't think you should have a problem with getting reimbursed for mentioning someone's product as long as you are upfront about it and let people know. It would have to be a product that you felt strongly about and were objective about.

The company that was paying you would also have to accept negative press from you as well. Not all products or companies do everything right all the time and if you called them out on it, they would have to accept it.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Phil

[Dave Fifield]

Sorry to burst your bubble Bill, but I've never heard of you. You have less postings on SMC than me and I've never seen a reply from you on any thread that I've been interested in. What makes you think you are fairly well known?

I suggest you take the money and endorse away - it will make absolutely no difference to any of my tool buying decisions. :)

Dave F.

[John Shuk]

I think it is cheesy as ....to post an opinion here as a paid rep of the company without disclosure. I really respect Bob Marino for the way he conducts himself here. Knowing that there could be paid shills here really seriously bursts my bubble. It all makes so much sense but people come here looking for honest opinions. I have no problem with somebody saying " I work for Delta and I think model ...... would fit your needs nicely." But I would never do business with a company if I found out somebody was posting links with no disclosure. If you beleive in your product you don't need to pull this garbage. Just be honest. Sorry for the rant but I kinda like the idea of this place being fairly pure.

[Frank Hagan]

Because I am fairly well known vendors keep offering to pay me money if I will mention their names in my posts and pay me even more if I will include links to their web pages. They offer on average $0.03 for every person who reads a thread where I mention the firm’s name in my post. If I include a link to that vendor’s web pages they pay $0.06 for each person that clicks on the link, plus 3% to 10% commission if the person buys within thirty days. These vendors also promised that their current monitoring software never requires me to post a link with a giveaway ID showing I am being paid for my recommendations. They also gave me names of some very popular, very high volume posters saying each generates about $50 off each major forum thread from the name and links, plus upwards of $2K a month in commissions. I keep turning them down because I think what they request is unethical. Many of the larger forums permanently ban these people, especially if they quote other member advice as their own. What do you think?

I agree with you Bill. I have some web-based hobbies and businesses, and I'm an Amazon.com affilliate. But I always disclose that my recommendations help support my website. Its fair disclosure, and should be required. I often wonder whether others are as diligent, but my concern is with myself, not others.

Because of the TOS here on Sawmill Creek, I refrain from ever using my affilliate links in any link I provide. Others should do the same. Integrity is worth more than .03 a click.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Sorry to burst your bubble Bill, but I've never heard of you. You have less postings on SMC than me and I've never seen a reply from you on any thread that I've been interested in. What makes you think you are fairly well known?

I suggest you take the money and endorse away - it will make absolutely no difference to any of my tool buying decisions. :)

Dave F.

I seriously doubt that you managed to burst Bill's bubble. :rolleyes: I'd guess that you haven't read too many DC posts on any popular online WW forum. The name comes up far more frequently than any other DC expert.
In fact, I can't think of any other names. If there is one DC expert anywhere Bill Pentz is the one. That being said, I don't subscribe to any of his theorys because I can hold my breath a really long time. :D

Bruce

[Bruce Benjamin]

This info is very interesting. I bet I'm not the only frequent reader of various WW forums who will read glowing reviews and product indorsements by frequent posters without at least a hint of suspicion.
If those who receive compensation were found out I suspect their credibility would drop considerably.

Bruce

[Rick Doyle]

This info is very interesting. I bet I'm not the only frequent reader of various WW forums who will read glowing reviews and product indorsements by frequent posters without at least a hint of suspicion.
If those who receive compensation were found out I suspect their credibility would drop considerably.

Bruce

bruce,

i was thinking the same thing because until bill's post tonite i had never even heard of this practice. i know all about affiliate ad stuff(i use it myself) but i didn't think anything similar applied to forum postings. verrrry interesting!!!

i'll bet if bill were to post his message on another 'heavy traffic' forum things would even get a lot more 'verrrrry interesting'. i'm not going near it on 'that' forum, but i'm going to watch it closely for the next couple of days to see if anything comes up there!:)

[Jim O'Dell]

Sorry to burst your bubble Bill, but I've never heard of you. You have less postings on SMC than me and I've never seen a reply from you on any thread that I've been interested in. What makes you think you are fairly well known?
(snip)
Dave F.

Dave, the only thing I can say is it is time for you to get interested in this subject (wood dust, not hidden payment for forum posts) for your continued health, and that of your loved ones. Click on Bill's name at the top of his post, then click on Public Profile, then click on find all posts by Bill Pentz. I think you will find that most of his posts have talked about dust collection. If you are ready for an eye opener, and full day's reading, go to his website, also listed on his profile page.
Bill didn't invent the cyclone, but he has spent a lot of time perfecting it's use for dust collection, and offers this research to all of us free of charge, all because he doesn't want wood dust to affect the rest of us as it has affected his health. Happy reading! Jim.

[Jim O'Dell]

One other thought on the compensation of hidden advertising in forum posts. Will this cause you to refrain from closing your post with something like "That's my .02 on the subject"???????:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Jim.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

.................If you are ready for an eye opener, and full day's reading, go to his website, also listed on his profile page............

Jim, you must be one quick study, man it took me several weeks to get through all the info there that is for free.

:D

[tod evans]

One other thought on the compensation of hidden advertising in forum posts. Will this cause you to refrain from closing your post with something like "That's my .02 on the subject"???????:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Jim.

not i ! i`ll continue to chip in my .02, no compensation from anybody. although i sell a few lines of tools to local woodworkers it`s seldom that i recomend them unless they`re ones i personally use and can vouch for. my income is derived from building stuff out of wood, i seriously doubt if i make 100$ profit from my tool selling anually but the venture does afford me the best possible pricing on what i use...".02 tod"

[Jim O'Dell]

Jim, you must be one quick study, man it took me several weeks to get through all the info there that is for free.
:D

Stu, I said read....I didn't say understand!! :D :D :D :D No, Bill's site will keep you going for a while



"not i ! i`ll continue to chip in my .02, no compensation from anybody."

Good for you, Todd! That is just how it should be. Please know that I wasn't singling anyone out with my .02 statement. It's common to say my 2 cents worth, or .0375 adjusted for inflation, etc. I just wondered in light of the conversation would anyone think twice about adding that? Jim.

[Rick Doyle]

my 2 cents is only worth about 1.90 cents right now! that figures!!:D

[Frank Hagan]

I wonder why no one has commissioned a "how to" book from Bill? Granted a book would be a lot different than a website in format and style, but Bill's information is so much more in depth than any of the dust control books out there. I would think a publishing company could assign an editor to work with Bill and help him develop the info on his web site into a info-packed "how to" on selecting, designing, and building the most effective dust collection system for home shops.

[Guy Baxter]

Woo Hoo! Look out folks I’m about to become a posting machine. ;-}

(Best buy – Jet; Best performance - Delta; Best workhorse - Milwaukee; Best color - Dewalt; Best old school - Porter Cable; Best new school – Festool; Best European – Minimax; Prettiest European – Laguna; Best forum – SawMillCreek)

I figure that if I start posting a few hundred posts a day my thread hit rate will have to improve and manufacturers will come running to give me money.

(Buy Bosch; Buy Jet; Buy Delta; Buy Milwaukee; Buy Dewalt; Buy Porter Cable; Buy– Festool; Buy– Minimax; Buy– Laguna; Read– SawMillCreek)

Unlike Bill, I have limited scruples. I also have a limited budget. So any manufacturer who wishes to improve his mention rate should seriously consider sending me some free tools. Heck, even if I don’t use them, I can resell them on ebay for extra income.

(Most used – Craftsman; Biggest seller – Amazon; Best non-tool – Cannondale; Supplies you cant live without – TiteBond, 3M; Most expensive – Bridge City; Best mail order – Lee Valley)

If you have a favorite vendor that you know also has deep pockets, please PM me with a one word brief on why they are the best and a link that I can add to my soon-to-be high-hitting blog – review – forum – link –website.

GB

[Tim Morton]

Sorry to burst your bubble Bill, but I've never heard of you. You have less postings on SMC than me and I've never seen a reply from you on any thread that I've been interested in. What makes you think you are fairly well known?

I suggest you take the money and endorse away - it will make absolutely no difference to any of my tool buying decisions. :)

Dave F.


Do your homework...Bill may know more about dust collection than any other person on this planet....by about 10fold. :cool:

[Dino Makropoulos]

Because I am fairly well known vendors keep offering to pay me money if I will mention their names in my posts and pay me even more if I will include links to their web pages. They offer on average $0.03 for every person who reads a thread where I mention the firm’s name in my post. If I include a link to that vendor’s web pages they pay $0.06 for each person that clicks on the link, plus 3% to 10% commission if the person buys within thirty days. These vendors also promised that their current monitoring software never requires me to post a link with a giveaway ID showing I am being paid for my recommendations. They also gave me names of some very popular, very high volume posters saying each generates about $50 off each major forum thread from the name and links, plus upwards of $2K a month in commissions. I keep turning them down because I think what they request is unethical. Many of the larger forums permanently ban these people, especially if they quote other member advice as their own. What do you think?


Bill.
Your recent thread have me thinking.
You already provide a link to our site without any payback.
We don't offer any "affiliates" program ... yet.
Our new shopping cart comes with this "standard option"

I see nothing wrong to activate it.
IF I provide an explanation of this program and disclose the "associates"

I don't think someone like you likes to loose credibility for promoting something that doesn't work.

Pick the best ideas-methods and tools, and go for it.
Ask the affiliates to disclose the program and do the same.
I promote anything that I think works good and as advertised.
Before I open my mouth for any tool, I like to use it first.

I'm thinking of a similar program for our new website with other good ideas
and tools without having an "affiliate" program.
But... If I decide to have the program,
I can sleep good for recommending something good
And even better because... I disclose it.

My -02 dollars.

[Jay Albrandt]

Bill,

If it wasn't for you and your work, the woodworking community as we know it would still only have poor dust collectors as our only options. You made it possible for the average joe to build a superior system, and in doing so, you showed everyone that professional level collection was both possible and affordable for the hobbiest. You now see tools being made with 4" or greater ports and a more conscientious design towards improved dust collection.

The companies that want you to endorse their products got their design from you........FOR FREE!

I know you would only endorse a product that you believe in (clearvue), so I say GO FOR IT! It is about time you benefit from your work.

Jay

[Lopaka Garcia]

The fact that you choose to stay independent is a testament to the type of person you are. In my opinion and of others here, is that you maintain your integrity level at the utmost. Your words will carry more weight because there is no ulterior motive for your opinions. As much as we would like to believe that we could always stay neutral with our opinions, at some time, that could change and we will be swayed by other forces.

This is a free open forum where people come to share their knowledge and experience with others and to gain some in return. I think people here enjoy sharing that with others and go away feeling good about it. Getting paid to share that knowledge on a free site, could change how people perceive you. We might think, in the back of our minds, is what he's saying pure and untainted? When you lose that benefit of doubt, the black and white areas start to become gray. These are just my opinions on this subject and I'm not saying this is true about Bill.

Another thought, is that once people know you are getting paid for what you say, you will be treated differently in my opinion because now you are a "paid consultant" in a way. They will be harsher towards your reviews and statements. I agree with the Consumer Reports comparison. You can be sure their reviews were not affected by being paid for reviewing a product. They do not accept products they are reviewing from the company. They purchase those products just like you and I would. Consumer Digest on the other hand, accepts advertisements from companies whos products they are reviewing. Can you say Norm Abrams? His shop is full of free tools he received from companies in exchange for him endorsing those said free tools.

Sorry about this long winded post.

[Gerard Pauwels]

Frankly, it never occurred to me that some contributors to SMC might be paid everytime others clicked on a link they "helpfully" included in a post. IMHO that violates the spirit if not the letter of the TOS.

I don't object to "links-for-profit" themselves. When I see links on a private site, I know there's a good chance the site owner is being compensated. More power to him. Wish I could do the same.

But when I visit SMC, I have different expectations. Here I assume advice is requested and given as among friends. I understand some answers will be better informed than others, and some will be given more out of ego than goodwill. But I expect them to be honest. Why wouldn't they be? We're just talking. Well, not all of us I guess.

Secretly profitting from working a given product name into a friendly conversation is just dishonest. Whether the fee is $300 or $.03, a shill is a shill. You can't trust his opinion, and he spoils the conversation.

If this isn't a violation of the TOS, it should be.

Gerry

[Ian Barley]

Do your homework...Bill may know more about dust collection than any other person on this planet....by about 10fold. :cool:
Tim - I suspect that there are others with just as much information working in the professional dust collection industry. I suspect that the main difference with Bill is that he is willing - even eager - to share that knowledge with as many as possible for no cost. That is what makes his efforts supremely commendable.

[Dave Richards]

Bill, I appreciate your input on the subject of dust collection. I have always thought that having no particular affiliation with one company or another made the information more creditable. I wonder if you started getting paid, would new readers of your information think you were promoting one product over another for the commission. Staying neutral might not be as financially rewarding but it's good for soul. ;)

On the other hand, I was picturing your smiling face painted on the side of a cyclone with some catch phrase printed below. :D

[Peter Stahl]

Because I am fairly well known vendors keep offering to pay me money if I will mention their names in my posts and pay me even more if I will include links to their web pages. They offer on average $0.03 for every person who reads a thread where I mention the firm’s name in my post. If I include a link to that vendor’s web pages they pay $0.06 for each person that clicks on the link, plus 3% to 10% commission if the person buys within thirty days. These vendors also promised that their current monitoring software never requires me to post a link with a giveaway ID showing I am being paid for my recommendations. They also gave me names of some very popular, very high volume posters saying each generates about $50 off each major forum thread from the name and links, plus upwards of $2K a month in commissions. I keep turning them down because I think what they request is unethical. Many of the larger forums permanently ban these people, especially if they quote other member advice as their own. What do you think?

Unless you don't want the extra work that goes along with this then I would say go about your bussiness as usual. You do have a lot of potential for a How to Book and/or a DVD on the constructing and Testing of your collector. I'm sure the vendors would love to have links for that. All the added work and headaches involved may not be worth it. I think the vendor thing on some forums is the owners preference. Don't think you'd get banned for a reply unless in you sentence you would say, if you go to my site or use my. Do what's best for you, and what you need to pay your bills with.

[Guy Baxter]

Woo Hoo! Look out folks I’m about to become a posting machine. ;-}

(Best buy – Jet; Best performance - Delta; Best workhorse - Milwaukee; Best color - Dewalt; Best old school - Porter Cable; Best new school – Festool; Best European – Minimax; Prettiest European – Laguna; Best forum – SawMillCreek)

I figure that if I start posting a few hundred posts a day my thread hit rate will have to improve and manufacturers will come running to give me money.

(Buy Bosch; Buy Jet; Buy Delta; Buy Milwaukee; Buy Dewalt; Buy Porter Cable; Buy– Festool; Buy– Minimax; Buy– Laguna; Read– SawMillCreek)

Unlike Bill, I have limited scruples. I also have a limited budget. So any manufacturer who wishes to improve his mention rate should seriously consider sending me some free tools. Heck, even if I don’t use them, I can resell them on ebay for extra income.

(Most used – Craftsman; Biggest seller – Amazon; Best non-tool – Cannondale; Supplies you cant live without – TiteBond, 3M; Most expensive – Bridge City; Best mail order – Lee Valley)

If you have a favorite vendor that you know also has deep pockets, please PM me with a one word brief on why they are the best and a link that I can add to my soon-to-be high-hitting blog – review – forum – link –website.

GB

Well the PMs are in and the one word critics were not limited to tool vendors.

(Biggest Jerk – Guy Baxter; Most annoying – Guy Baxter; Leading loser – Guy Baxter; Most likely to get kicked off forum – Guy Baxter)

I think I see a general trend indicating that forum posting for the sake of making money is not going to win one any fans, and could have an impact on ones credibility.

BTW, if any posters on SMC are making money this way, I don't think I want to know. Although these kickbacks may sway a posters opinions a little, I feel most SMC posters (paid or otherwise) are not likely to post glowing reviews or recommend products that they themselves are not satisfied with.

GB

[Alan Tolchinsky]

To quote Tom: "it seems to me your integrity and trustworthiness is earned from your experience, knowledge and willingness to share the same." I think that earning a profit from your knowledge is something you have earned and deserve. I think you have earned our trust for all you have done for ALL woodworkers. You have probably saved the lives of those who have been to your site and learned from you. I say yes go ahead and endorse if you're coomfortable with that. Whomever you endorse will gain a LOT of creditbility so I'm sure you will choose wisely. And we will listen; you've earned it. Alan in Md.

[John Shuk]

Endorsing is one thing. If you work for a company and it is out there for all to see then no problem. I'm pretty sure that those who have dreamed up this scheme doesn't have it planned out that way. I'm pretty sure they would like to keep the compensation hidden. I kinda think that'd make them dirtbags in my book. Just my $.02;)

[Don Baer]

Sorry to burst your bubble Bill, but I've never heard of you. You have less postings on SMC than me and I've never seen a reply from you on any thread that I've been interested in.


well a quick search of your posts showes that you have weighed in of DC's a total of 2 times once to talk about remote controls and the other to blast recognised expert. So in my book Bill has it all over you.

[Frank Hagan]

Endorsing is one thing. If you work for a company and it is out there for all to see then no problem. I'm pretty sure that those who have dreamed up this scheme doesn't have it planned out that way. I'm pretty sure they would like to keep the compensation hidden. I kinda think that'd make them dirtbags in my book. Just my $.02;)

I think that's where the difference is. If you are a "compensated endorser", as the TV commercials now say, then you should disclose it. You see that superimposed on those Alex Trebek ads for Colonial Penn Insurance. I wonder if that's a rule the networks have, or if its something requested by either Trebek or Colonial Penn. Either way, I think the disclosure makes all the difference in the world.

[Allan Johanson]

I think that's where the difference is. If you are a "compensated endorser", as the TV commercials now say, then you should disclose it. You see that superimposed on those Alex Trebek ads for Colonial Penn Insurance. I wonder if that's a rule the networks have, or if its something requested by either Trebek or Colonial Penn. Either way, I think the disclosure makes all the difference in the world.
I agree completely.

Bill, you are a class act staying independent as you have been. I also know from your posts and our PMs that if you ever chose to be a "compensated endorser", that your standards are set so incredibly high that anything that got your seal of approval would definitely be a quality machine. :D

All the best,

Allan

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Bill...I think you are a geniune gentleman and that you are right on track with what many of us would say. I would never sell out like they suggest you do and I commend you for not doing it. Keep your old school ethics intact!!!

[Larry Cooke]

What do youthink?Bill,

I think it's very unethical for anyone to make money off of forums promoting products or brands without disclosing the fact that they're being paid to do so. (I'd really hate to be one of those persons and have the world found out about it... Whew doggy, that would be a bad for them!)

Taking money for links on a site is another thing, It goes without saying that a manufacturer is paying to have a link on someone's website.

Lord knows you have paid a very high price for the knowledge you have gained.

My thoughts are you deserve to be rewarded, what would concern me the most though is what happens if you endorse a product and the company starts making changes that affect the products ability to perform properly? I'd want to be able to bow out gracefully it so. I feel you're honest enough to recommend the right thing, I would only hope that you never get into a situation where you couldn't do that.

I gained a lot of knowledge from your site, in fact it may save me from serous health problems. I ordered a Clearvue cyclone last week and you can guess why I choose this particular brand, price and looks had little to do with it...

Let me be the first, second, or 10,000th to say thank you for what you have brought us! And if you decide to promote or endorse a given product I'm sure everyone will understand and support you, I know I would.

Larry