A question about sort-of big iron

[Geoff Barry]

I noticed the following on craigslist today:
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/162650142.html

If the link doesn't work, it's a late-80s Oliver 270D 14" saw. While somewhat newer than the saws that certain folks have, it looks like one of the same type of "big iron" saws. I've had a couple of questions about these sorts of saws for awhile:

- how far from the blade can one set the fence. While there is a vast expanse of cast iron surface to the right of the blade, it looks as though the fence is fixed to the table fairly close to the blade - sort of like a router table.

- I've seen these sorts of saws referred to as "pattern maker" saws. What does that mean? (And, no, "a saw used by a pattern maker" will not answer the question :) ).

- Folks often say they'll never go back to a unisaw. WHat is it that these saws do better than a unisaw? Is it simply power? If one is not ripping 12/4 maple or running a timber-framing business, what is it that would make these saws attractive?

I'll also note that I'm more curious than anything else - I'm not planning to buy the above saw. First, I'd need a garage . . . well, first, I'd need $3400, then I'd need a garage. And a truck. And a forklift. And either a bigger bunch of friends, or a bunch of bigger friends. Anyway, I've made enough basic furniture on my bt3100 to lust in my heart after a cabinet saw - I understand what moving from the bt3100 to a unisaw (or similar saw) would get me. I just don't have the experience to know what benefits moving from a unisaw to a "big iron" saw would produce.

[Bill Neely]

There's a line of threaded holes across the saw table. To move the fence you unscrew the base and relocate it.

[Dev Emch]

This saw is being offered by a buddy of mine and his brother. These guys are awsome at finding these rare specimens.

This saw has to be the newest oliver 270 I have ever seen. Its sporting a silver eagle nameplate and a birthday in the 1980s making it one of the last 270s ever made.

The 270 has been around for many many years and never really changed much. A door here and a nameplate there. This one most likely has a reuland, woods or baldor motor as louis allis was long gone when this saw was built. Aside from it being spic and span and original without 20 or 30 coats of broom applied oil paint, its no different than a 270 made during the 1940s that has been restored.

Why is this saw so good. Accuracy-accuracy-accuracy. Oliver 232 and 270 spindles were almost to the note within 2 or 3 tenths of 1 thousandths of an inch on runout. Even after 40 or 50 years, they are still spot to less than 1 thousandths.

These are direct drive saws meaning no stubby spindle with short stubby bearings. The bearings support the motor rotor and the bearings are spot on. This makes alignment easier.

The patternmaker fence attaches to the top with two taper fit pins in precise jig bored holes in the top. The actual fence can move about 5 inches. Anything more than that and you have to move the fence and repin it. The standard H fence did not have a tilting face. The optional J fence did. Otherwise these two patternmakers are the same.

Companies like Incra copied the likes of oliver and tannewitz and whitney when they came up with their golden extrusion fence. They argue that by having the fence stem in the middle of the table, alignment errors become differential and cancel each other out. On fences like the old beisymeyr, they are doubled. Well, this argument happens to be correct.

The oliver 232 and 270 which is a 232 with a slightly larger top and a 5 hp motor were both designed to compete head on with the unisaw. And compete they did. They gained the nickname unikillers.

[lou sansone]

these saws as dev has said are direct drive. there is a smoothness to direct drive saws that you will just never get with a belt drive saw. this is one of the best oliver saws made. I know dev likes the 88, but I would personally be more inclined to buy the 270. I would also chuck the oliver fence and put a biesmier on ( sorry dev ).

The feel of an oliver is just awesome, and the tops are finished to a certain smoothness that you just love to touch. Forget the unisaw, there is just no comparison.

lou

[Bart Leetch]

Beautiful saw:D ~ beautiful dreamer:D ~ not in my life I'll stick with my Uni it much less strife with my wife.:eek: :D In 100 years will the wood I cut know the difference I don't know & I don't care I won't be there.:D

SorryI just couldn't resist.:D

[Jim Andrew]

They had a similar looking Oliver at Fort Hays State in the woodworking
shop when I was there '69 to '73. Also had a Powermatic. The first guy
in tied up the Oliver, and everybody else had to use the PM. Think some
guys went in 30 minutes early just to tie up the "good saw". Always
wanted one of those, but had to settle for a uni. Jim

[Jerry Olexa]

This saw is being offered by a buddy of mine and his brother. These guys are awsome at finding these rare specimens.

This saw has to be the newest oliver 270 I have ever seen. Its sporting a silver eagle nameplate and a birthday in the 1980s making it one of the last 270s ever made.

The 270 has been around for many many years and never really changed much. A door here and a nameplate there. This one most likely has a reuland, woods or baldor motor as louis allis was long gone when this saw was built. Aside from it being spic and span and original without 20 or 30 coats of broom applied oil paint, its no different than a 270 made during the 1940s that has been restored.

Why is this saw so good. Accuracy-accuracy-accuracy. Oliver 232 and 270 spindles were almost to the note within 2 or 3 tenths of 1 thousandths of an inch on runout. Even after 40 or 50 years, they are still spot to less than 1 thousandths.

These are direct drive saws meaning no stubby spindle with short stubby bearings. The bearings support the motor rotor and the bearings are spot on. This makes alignment easier.

The patternmaker fence attaches to the top with two taper fit pins in precise jig bored holes in the top. The actual fence can move about 5 inches. Anything more than that and you have to move the fence and repin it. The standard H fence did not have a tilting face. The optional J fence did. Otherwise these two patternmakers are the same.

Companies like Incra copied the likes of oliver and tannewitz and whitney when they came up with their golden extrusion fence. They argue that by having the fence stem in the middle of the table, alignment errors become differential and cancel each other out. On fences like the old beisymeyr, they are doubled. Well, this argument happens to be correct.

The oliver 232 and 270 which is a 232 with a slightly larger top and a 5 hp motor were both designed to compete head on with the unisaw. And compete they did. They gained the nickname unikillers.

Excellent post!!! Good info...Thanks

[Bill Lewis]

I would also chuck the oliver fence and put a biesmier on ( sorry dev ). Would that even work? This is a tilting table saw. It seems to me that the Bies just wouldn't be able to support the material if the table was tilted. Just curious, I'll never own have the chance to one of these beasts. I bet it is one smooth cutter.