Purchasing new cabinet saw 3hp vs. 5hp?

[Jon Bell]

Hi to all. I am a newcomer and setting up my shop. I am not totally sure of all the things i might want to build. I am looking at the sawstop and will place my order early next week but got stuck at the 3hp or 5hp (single phase). i have a 14" jointer/planer and a 20 inch bandsaw from minimax and will be buying rough lumber. any help or insight on the difference or need for one over the other would be appreciated. it is $200 more for the 5hp. i only want to buy this once. thank you ahead of time for any insight you might have.

[tod evans]

jon, horsepower and cast iron are your friend....02 tod

[lou sansone]

hi jon
I have had a 3 hp saw, a 7.5 hp and now a 9 hp saw. The 3 was fine for most things, but I usually ran a thin kerf blade on it. The larger saws can power through anything you would want to put on the machine. I would say consider the % extra you are talking about ( sounds like about 7% extra ) and make your choice. I don't see a down side to the 5 hp at $200 extra
best wishes

lou

[Michael Ballent]

I struggled with the same this when I bought my SawStop. $200 more and I could have the 5HP version... So I looked at the type of WW I did and the majority of things I cut are 3/4" and ocassionally I would cut something thicker but not enough to justify the extra cost. IMO unless you are running a 12" blade it does not make sense to go up to 5HP... Unless you really want to brag to your friends. :D Yes the 5hp will let you cut faster, but how fast do you need to be? If you are a pro then yeah go ahead, if you are a hobbiest then just stay with the 3HP and buy a nice miter guage to replace the one that comes with the saw :D or get some grrippers :D and take your wife out to a nice dinner for letting you get the SawStop ( I am assuming you are married hehehe)

[Steven Wilson]

10" blade, no powerfeed - 3HP
12" blade, no powerfeed - 5HP
10" blade, powerfeed - 5HP
12" blade, powerfeed - 7.5HP

[Ben Grunow]

Just got my 3 hp SS cab saw and it EATS rough lumber as fast as you dare ram it in. So it should cut most of what you need it to at normal, safe speeds. The larger saw will also need more amps, if power is a concern for you. If not I would bet the 5 hp for another $200 if that is all it costs. More power is better. Good luck.

[Roy Wall]

Although I see Michael B's logic...:cool: I'd go for the extra HP for the $200 - but do still take your wife out to dinner!!!:) :D Make yourself some sack lunches over a couple months (instead of eating out...) and you'll have it paid for.......:)

The 5hp runs at 20.5 amps.....so you'll need a 25 amp breaker. Enjoy your new saw!

[Derek Arita]

I've only run 3HP saws in my shop and it's never been an issue for me to have more power. I was, however, under the unpression that if I were to switch to 5hp, that I would need to upgrade my 30A breaker and 10 guage wiring. If I'm wrong on this, I'm sure someone will correct me. Good luck.

[Jamie Buxton]

I've got a Unisaw with 1 1/2 HP. I'm a full-time woodworker. That saw has eaten everything I've ever fed to it for twenty-five years.

[Steven Evans]

I would have to agree with Steven W's guide posted above. I do not see really needing 5 hp without a slider or a power feeder. I had a MM 410 slider with 4.8hp motor with belt driven scoring off the main motor. I could not put it under any load with sheet stock. The shaper and J/P was another story.

But hey for 200.00 divided over the years you plan to own it? It will be very costly to upgrade later on if you find your wanting more power.

My personal thought on equipment: If you run a 3hp at say 80% load (2.4hp) and a 5 HP at 48% which do you think will last longer? Just my 2 cts, nothing scientific. A 5hp should have larger brgs and larger motor in general, should run cooler. Thats my logic anyway. If you plan years of use and long days in the shop.

[Michael Ballent]

Although I see Michael B's logic...:cool: I'd go for the extra HP for the $200 - but do still take your wife out to dinner!!!:) :D Make yourself some sack lunches over a couple months (instead of eating out...) and you'll have it paid for.......:)

The 5hp runs at 20.5 amps.....so you'll need a 25 amp breaker. Enjoy your new saw!

Roy you are Da' MAN :D May I be so bold as to give you a new nickname :D Roy "More Power" Wall

I still think that the 3hp is fine ;)

[William Parks]

Jon,

Since you're a newcomer who's not sure of what he's going to build and buying all these top line tools, what's an extra 200?

[Bruce Page]

Jon, my 3hp Unisaw with full kerf blade has easily handled everything that I’ve thrown at it. Steven makes an interesting point concerning power feeds, but I don't use a power feed.

[Alan Turner]

I have a 3hp Unisaw, and used it for years without problem. The thick stock was a bit slower to feed, but it was never a serious problem. I only run full kerf blades.

But when I bought the SS, I put the 5 hp on it, knowing that I had to build a shop full of benches, and would be running a bunch of 12/4 hard maple. For $200, I'd go for it. But, if you don't cut much thick stock, there would not be a need for it.

[Larry Cooke]

i only want to buy this once.Jon,

You've pretty much answered you own question me thinks... Personally, (it's always easier to spend someone elses money :)) I would upgrade the saw to 5hp.

I too just went through the same thought process and while I can't say for sure I'll really need the 5hp, it will be there if I do. I'm the kind of person that will get tired of not having the right tool and eventually upgrade it later which costs money. You'll soon forget about that extra $200.00. Of course if it's a matter of money you certainly would do well with a 3hp and you alone will know what's right for you.

If it were up to me I'd upgrade it! :D

Larry

[Alan DuBoff]

For $200, I'd go for it. But, if you don't cut much thick stock, there would not be a need for it.Alan, for the premium charged for any 8/4 or 12/4 stock, it seems like a prudent investment of $200 up front, just in case one does end up cutting that type of thicker stock. My $0.25 (inflation, doncha know? ;)) This is coming from someone with a 1 1/2 HP table saw, who does cut 8/4 stock with it and just feeds it slowly.

[Dev Emch]

My first table saw was a unisaw many moons ago. Hmmm, did I say my first table saw? Yup! Then I got a 1950s vintage Northfield #4 followed by a 1968 northfield #4 slider. The uni had 3 hp and the northfields had 5 hp but these were louis allis ponies and that does make a difference. More brute torque.

Then I sold the norhfields and got a martin T-17 from about 1976. It has 6.6 hp followed up with an oliver 88 which has 7.5 hp from 1968.

All these machines except the unisaw were bought used and in dire need of new paint.

About two weeks ago, I was at an auction and was offered a vintage unisaw from a guy who bought the thing just for the extended fence assembly. I declined because I had forgotten how small the unisaw really is. Uncomfortably small!

Once you get spoiled to using beast heavy, large format industrial saws with at least 5 hp and often more, you will notice how tweenie the other saws actually are. I can run 3.5 inch thick oak or maple and feed it as fast as I can push. Slices through this stuff like its balsa or paper.

Personally, I find the saw stop inordinately pricey for what it is. For that money, I can buy a super late and super clean oliver 232 or oliver 270.

[Joe Jensen]

I've had a 3HP cabinet saw for 22 years. First a Unisaw, and then a PM66 for 15 years. The only time I needed more HP was when I used the table saw to cut full blade depth bevels on red oak for raised panels. The saw could only take the wood so fast, and at the speed the wood burned. If I pushed faster, the saw would stall, ( hard to push this hard). So, I just bought a SawStop and I ordered the 5HP. I also assume this is my last saw, and I didn't want to be lacking the HP in the future. But, now I have to rewire my panel in the garage to handle the 5HP, and from what I read, you really shouldn't use plugs on cords that handle a 5HP saw...joe

[Joe Jensen]

Dev, if only I had the room for a large saw :(

[Alan DuBoff]

Personally, I find the saw stop inordinately pricey for what it is. For that money, I can buy a super late and super clean oliver 232 or oliver 270.Well, try and buy a finger back someday...in some cases it's not so easy...:(

[Dev Emch]

Dev, if only I had the room for a large saw :(

I used to believe the same thing until I proved to myself its nonsense. You see, the table top on these is only about 8 to 10 inches wider if that. By the time you install those hunkin rip extension tables and 54 inch beismyer fences, your up to the same foot print. Also bear in mind that the major space used by saws is often the entry and exit zones and not the machine itself. If all you can squeeze into your shop is a basic unisaw, well then your not ever going to be able to cut 4 by 8 sheets of plywood or rip 7 to 8 foot long boards.

As to fingers. What about the other machines in the shop? I would think the most dangerous machine would be the freehand template router or shaper doing tombstone doors. The fact remains that the saw stop is a pretty good saw in its class but that class is based on an average suggested retail price of about $1800 to an upside of $2000 dollars. Grizzly is really pulling this price average downwards as well. Given the extra feature set including the stop, this is a $2300 dollar saw. That is more then plenty above and beyond the ubiquatous unisaw for the additional feature set. At about $3500 dollars, it strikes me that Saw Stop is taking advantage of the inate fear of some woodworkers and taking this fear straight to the bank.

But more importantly, I used the adjective PERSONALLY in my previous post. I personally would rather buy a mint condition oliver 232 or 270 in lieu of the saw stop. That is me. Others are more than welcome to do anything they please and I encourage them to do so.

[Bill Neely]

#8 awg and 40 amp breaker minimum.

[Alan DuBoff]

As to fingers. What about the other machines in the shop?Sure, most any machine that cuts wood will cut flesh. I'd love to have the chance to use either an Oliver or a SS.;-) In the meantime my little contractors saw is chuggin' along. :D Maybe some day I'll find a nice upgrade. Maybe I'll plop down the $$$s for a SS, I don't know.

So far, my contractors saw (Ridgid 3612) does what I throw at it. I'm certainly not going to stop throwing wood at it, and I will be careful as much as I can, because fingers can't be bought back so easily. :eek:

[Jeff Horton]

First let me say I am probably the most conservative person on here when it come to money. No I am not cheap, I guess I am frugal but not cheap. Even thought you didn't ask this I have to agree with Dev. But, to answer your question if I were looking at the SS I would probably spend the extra $200. Why?

Because I have never regretted by a better quality tool but I have regretted buying cheaper ones. (not exactly the same analogy). Unless you are going to be doing some big wood, I seriously doubt you will ever need the extra HP. But when you look at what you are about to spend the extra $200 is really very small amount. Even to someone who is as careful with his money as I am.

Now, with that said:
If I knew what I was going to use the saw for and knew I would not need the extra Umph 90% of the time then I wouldn't spend it.
The extra HP is going to cost you virtually nothing extra to own/operate it and it won't hurt anything having the extra HP. It maybe rare but there will be times your glad you have it.
I am assuming your not going to have any other expense just to own the saw. Such as wiring the shop, buying high dollar blades, large arbor dado's etc. because of the larger motor.Of course if it were me, I would be buying an old saw and restoring it. ;)

[Brian Hale]

I don't see the need for 5hp in a 10" cabinet saw. I can run a 3/4" dado 1" deep as fast as i care to push it without slowing mine down. If you push hard enough to stall a 3hp motor, what will a 5hp do for you except make it more dangerous.

I work as a machinist and our saw room has an older cabinet saw with a 3hp 220v motor that cuts 1 1/2" aluminum plate with little effort and has been doing so for 20+ years.

Brian :)

[Peter Mc Mahon]

There are only 2 reasons not to go with the 5 hp. Money, it is only $200 and it sounds as though it is not a major concern, and available amps from your service. If you have both to spare then by all means get the 5 hp. You will never wish that you bought the 3 hp.

[Tyler Howell]

Alway frustrated with some of my earlier purchases I've been over kill ever since.(SMC).
I went 5 with my PM 66

[Allen Bookout]

It seems to me, all things being equal, that it would not not be very smart to spend a good deal of money and get three HP when you could spend only $200 more and nearly double the horsepower. I know because that is what I did and I think about it every once in while. I have not used my saw very much yet so have not needed the extra but if I ever do I will really be cussin' thinking how little the extra HP would have cost me.

The reason that I went that route was that I was under the impression that a 5HP motor needed to be hardwired to meet code and I knew that I would have to move my saw from time to time and wanted to be able to plug it in to a new outlet to keep the cord at a reasonable length and keep it away from the walking areas.

I do not know if the above electrical thing is true or not so maybe someone that is up on the code could shed some light on that situation. For me personally, I really hope that it is true so that I do not feel so stupid.

Allen

[Chris Damm]

Our pattern shop had an 18" tablesaw with 15HP. If you're looking for overkill that''ll do it!

[Alan DuBoff]

I don't see the need for 5hp in a 10" cabinet saw. I can run a 3/4" dado 1" deep as fast as i care to push it without slowing mine down.Me neither, I can use a 3/4" shoulder plane to do the same thing, and while it takes a little longer, it's much quieter and accomplishes the same thing. :p but in regards to the motor on the TS, I don't see how it would hurt to have more HP. And no, I don't see more HP as being more dangerous, I see it as being safer as it will be able to handle a faster feed. If you're feeding too fast on a lower HP motor, that's the danger, not the other way around.

Any of them will cut fingers and hands off, even a 1 1/2 HP contractors saw motor will do that, and pushing 12/4 stock into a 1 1/2 HP blade takes some patience, IME.

[Rafael Carias]

Maybe i'm just power hungry. i think for an extra $200 the 5 HP is worth it. there have been many times when i was dimansionong big (hard) wood that i wished i had the extra HP.

[Dev Emch]

Our pattern shop had an 18" tablesaw with 15HP. If you're looking for overkill that''ll do it!

Uhhh Uhhhh Uhhhh.....MORE POWER!:D:D

Now thats a table saw! What model and features. Tell us tell us tell us.... Was it old iron?

[Dev Emch]

Me neither, I can use a 3/4" shoulder plane to do the same thing, and while it takes a little longer, it's much quieter and accomplishes the same thing. :p but in regards to the motor on the TS, I don't see how it would hurt to have more HP. And no, I don't see more HP as being more dangerous, I see it as being safer as it will be able to handle a faster feed. If you're feeding too fast on a lower HP motor, that's the danger, not the other way around.

Any of them will cut fingers and hands off, even a 1 1/2 HP contractors saw motor will do that, and pushing 12/4 stock into a 1 1/2 HP blade takes some patience, IME.

I would like to see your shoulder plane excavate a dado groove in say 3/4 inch thick baltic birch or melamine covered MDF?

[Mike Canaris]

5 hp..is nice..but it also adds another 55 pounds on the trunnions...a 3 horsepower weighs in at 50 pounds compared to the 5 horse's 106....

For hobby use and even heavy duty home use..you will never have the need for a 5 horse motor....unless you like bragging to friends...:D

[Alan DuBoff]

I would like to see your shoulder plane excavate a dado groove in say 3/4 inch thick baltic birch or melamine covered MDF?I would like to see where I was interested in building with laminates to the point that I would invest in a large machine to do so... ;)

I don't plan to use much ply at all, but even so...I could cut a dado many ways in a piece of ply, how about a stair saw? How about a backsaw with a guide (a.k.a., a straight edge)?

Solid wood cuts fine with hand plane, for me anyway...

[Brian Hale]

For hobby use and even heavy duty home use..you will never have the need for a 5 horse motor....unless you like bragging to friends...:D

Mike, looks like you and i are Odd Men Out ! ;)

Brian :)

[Allen Bookout]

Mike, looks like you and i are Odd Men Out ! ;)

Brian :)
Brian,

Don't be too sure. I would be willing to bet that a huge majority of the 10" tablesaws are 3 HP that are being sold today. The only reason that I am leary, like Tyler said, is that I was burnt early on with an underpowered machine so I may now be overly careful when I consider my power needs for the future. However, you will notice that I did go with the 3 HP even though I still wonder if I did the right thing or not. Hopefully I did.

Allen

[glenn bradley]

I am a total proponent of high-tech and elegant alternatives to raw power but, I find in my varied interests two areas stand apart. Stereos and tools deserve RAW HORSEPOWER!!!

[David Mueller]

#8 awg and 40 amp breaker minimum.

Most call for a 30 amp #10 for a 5 hp motor. My 5 hp pulls 26A under full load cutting ie. 2 2/3 in maple.

[Steven Wilson]

Save the $200 and put that towards a very decent bandsaw. I use to have fun ripping 2" thick cherry on a Powermatic 66. Now I forgo the pucker factor and use the bandsaw (with a 1" Lennox carbide blade) when I want to rip thick stock. A good bandsaw, well setup can rip thick stock as well as a tablesaw.